The McThundergut Clan - 1st Unit Ironguts Completed!

Hey guys,

Well I've already started to build my OK army and I thought before I get to far in depth that I should begin my own gnoblog to record the progress of the army.

The most important thing I think an army can have is theme, and of course this army is heavily inspired by Ganymede and his Clan Macloud.  Way before I was even thinking about starting an Ogre Kingdoms army his models were amazing and the colour scheme gave me ideas.

So basically its going to be the stock standard Ogre army with a Scottish theme to it.  Think tartan pants, bagpipes, blue warpaint (:-P) glengarry hats, balmoral hats and any other Scottish thing that I can think of.

This gnoblog will no doubt take some time to complete so please bear with me and the updates may be once a month or something like that.

Firstly the purchasing side of things.

Several weeks ago I made some good purchases and at the moment I have the following to choose from for the army:

Giant
2 Gorgers
Tyrant
Hunter
50 gnoblars
8 Leadbelchers
12 Iron guts
18 Bulls



So basically I'm going to convert 2 butchers, a rhinox rider, 3 maneaters, and a tyrant but also add lots of scottish bits and bobs to the bulls to get them in theme.

Performance wise this is the list I'm currently building towards:

Tyrant - Heavy armour, Tenderiser, Mawseeker, Jade Lion

296 points

Bruiser - Heavy armour, BSB, Wyrdstone necklace, Sword of might, Look out gnoblar

204 points

Butcher - Bangstick, Dispel Scroll,

180

Butcher - Skullmantle, Siegebreaker

185

Core

3 Bulls - Bellower, Second hand weapons

127 points

3 Bulls - Bellower, Second hand weapons

127 points

3 Bulls - Bellower, Second hand weapons

127 points

3 Ironguts - Standard, Lookout gnoblar,

169 points

3 Ironguts - standard, lookout gnoblar

169 points

3 Ironguts - standard, lookout gnoblar

169 points

3 Ironguts - standard, lookout gnoblar

169 points

9 gnoblar trappers

54 points

3 Maneaters - Heavy armour, Great weapons

270 points

Rhinox rider - Heavy armour, Iron fist, standard, warbanner, Bull Rhinox

210 points

2247 points

I've been toying with various army lists for a while now and I've managed to have two games with this list and it's performance in both games brought me victories and was pretty easy to play.  The only thing I'm thinking of altering is dropping the Mawseeker and Jade Lion on the Tyrant for Mawseeker big name to really help out with the panic tests.  If people could give me their opinions on this it would be highly appreciated!

Will hopefully have some background to add within a few weeks, some sculpting WIP and eventually a test model for the colour scheme.

 

Personally, I would like to see a Gorger in this list, and I'm not the biggest fan of Maneaters. However, the biggest worry is the Tyrant with Mawseeker. As vulnerable as ur army is to war machines and missiles, taking something that can potentially result in ur Tyrant, and the unit he's hiding in, standing still for a turn is not ideal. I would suggest not giving him a Bigname, and instead giving him a Wyrdstone necklace and a Luck Gnobbo.
Hope this helps, and I look forward to pics.

you should start a anti -maneater lobbyist gruop lol. are you going to have a brave heart model ? with a huge sword?

I'll assume you meant swap mawseeker for kineater? If so, I wouldn't bother. the jade lion and mawseeker big name works well in concert and kineater's range of effect is pretty much only going to encompass the unit the tyrant is with. I would consider loosing the maneaters though. I wouldn't bother swapping in a gorger, as they don't work particularly well on their own, but gedtting a second rhinox rider. Either i nthe same unit or a second unit. This allwos you to have a more surviavable and threatenening unit, or to run a fast ,oving terror causer down either flank./

Thanks
Corai

Nice pile of plastic you got there. Goodluck with the assembling and painting. Don't forget the scotch

It will be cool when you got it all finished to place this picture next to a picture where everything is finished

Maw Seeker Jadelion is a great Combo.  However, in the last 30 days or so that I have been traveling to different tournaments, in the three tournaments that I have played, he is going to fail the test even with the re-roll at least one game in a 5 game tournament, so expect to fail.

It was two times for me in a 5 game, once in a three game, and none in the other three game...

The Wyrdston wound, I also happened to fail my test the same game that I failed my stupidity test...it happened twice as well

Maw/jade/tenderizer is a great combo.. cannot be outdone and yes the odd ( 1 in 5 games or 30 rounds ) failure will happen, but the extra T is great againest certain armies..

And 2 gorgers are great for causing Player panic in games.. just the thought that they can come in from the table edge scares a player and his way of playing immensely..

Cheers and good luck
Gris

Well I've started researching into the head dress for my Ogre bulls, it should be pretty straight forward to sculpt so I think I will have a go over the weekend and post some pics up of my work.

check the hats out here:

http://www.glengarryhats.com/glengarryhats.php
http://www.glengarryhats.com/balmoralhats.php

They don't look too difficult to sculpt, I'm sure tey'll look ace on ogre models2

thanks
corai

Bit of an update for you this evening.

Decided to crack out the green stuff and have a go at getting some head dress on my Ogre Bulls.  I'm by no means experienced with sculpting at all but I think they look good and will paint up well.




I've just got to take a closer look at some bagpipe pictures and work out what to use for the 'pipes' and then make 3 of them.

I'm aiming to have one fully painted bull before the weekend is over.

 

tOB.

They look nice. I think the mutton chop hair could use a little more definition but the scottish hats look great. For bagpipes' pipes you could check out thinks like skink blowpipes or toerh similar pipe based weapons

Thanks
Corai

Love those hats!

Ok guys I've got some updates before the weekend is out!

I had a go at painting some skin and I wasn't impressed with my efforts however it's the first ogre I've painted so I'm being fairly forgiving to myself.  I've just finished a Tomb Kings army so I think I've got to kick the drybrushing habit in the backside pronto.

Also I've had a go at the tartan design so far and I'm happy with it although I think maybe I could have another vertical line running between the 'boxes', maybe a light yellow of some kind or grey?  Let me know your thoughts.

Ok so the skin is as follows:

Basecoat:


2nd Basecoat:


1st highlight:


2nd highlight:


As I mentioned, I've really got to work on this!

Tartan:






I need comments on the second coloured vertical lines so please let me know!

they look great infact very tartanish
love the hats too.

Also tOB says ina rules you can't reply with just a smiley...

hehe, thunderguts make me think of the sound a stomach sometimes makes. I can image an ogre thinking it is storming inside of his guts Really nice name

The name sounds great. Definatley an improvement over 'unnamed scottish ogres'

Looking forward to more

Thakns
corai

You should do a unit of ironguts with blue and white face paint and a tyrant with a huge sword in the unit. 
 WATCH brave heart its a cool movie and has heaps of scots beating up english guys!

hehe, thunderguts make me think of the sound a stomach sometimes makes. I can image an ogre thinking it is storming inside of his guts Really nice name

Hmmm, stomach sounds...that makes me have a mental image of a tribe of Ogres having bowel issues and soiling toilets all around the old world. Yech! 

BigD

Not much of an update I'm afraid this weekend gents but I would like people opinions on Ogres with a traditional human flesh tone?  I'm really at the stage where I can't be bother mucking about with mixing paints and yes it may sound lazy however I want to complete the army in 12 months not 12 years.

I was thinking a pale skin look, almost elven I guess but I would like other peoples thoughts on the matter.

Tonight I'm just going to sculpt some magic tokens for the RIP spells we have, I'll post them up tomorrow.

I like human flesh tone on ogres, I do it myself too. Humanoids have human flesh, Greenskin have a green skin, and so on. But of course that's my opinion.

I like a greyish skintone for Ogres. Ogres are monsters and not humans, so to set them apart from humans, I like to give them another kind of skincolor.

BigD

I like human flesh tone on ogres, I do it myself too. Humanoids have human flesh, Greenskin have a green skin, and so on. But of course that's my opinion.

I like a greyish skintone for Ogres. Ogres are monsters and not humans, so to set them apart from humans, I like to give them another kind of skincolor.

BigD

you're both wrong. Blue flesh ftw

thanks
Corai

We're not all possessed by Tzeentch

I didn't took much time to read the ogre fluff (yet, and yes I'm ashamed). But aren't ogres mutated humans ? So they used to be humans, and therefor have human flesh tone. I could be terribly wrong now.

I don't really think that there is a right or wrong answer, I mean if you look at the old school Ogres before the Ogre Kingdoms was even thought about they all had human skin tones.  At this stage I'm really leaning towards giving it a go.

We're not all possessed by Tzeentch

I didn't took much time to read the ogre fluff (yet, and yes I'm ashamed). But aren't ogres mutated humans ? So they used to be humans, and therefor have human flesh tone. I could be terribly wrong now.

No ogres are a completely seperate race. they didn't mutate from humans (just as dwarves and elves didn't)

thanks
Corai

Well guys I managed to sculpt the spell markers, they aren't the best but they will do for now.  I've also scrapped the grey skin tone and have started on the human flesh so I'll post a pic of that when I'm finished with it.

Having a lot of trouble sculpting chainmail at the moment, I've looked at all the tutorials but I'm still not unlocking any secrets with practice!

Well guys I managed to sculpt the spell markers, they aren't the best but they will do for now.  I've also scrapped the grey skin tone and have started on the human flesh so I'll post a pic of that when I'm finished with it.

Too bad that you didn't choose for a grey tone.
Well, at least you didn't pick blue, like Corai suggested 

About your sculpting troubles, what is it that you do exactly (what kind of tools do you use, how much drying time befor sculpting, do you use green stuff or something else, etc)? Maybe there is something we can do to help.

BigD

I didn't took much time to read the ogre fluff (yet, and yes I'm ashamed). But aren't ogres mutated humans ? So they used to be humans, and therefor have human flesh tone. I could be terribly wrong now.

Your probably thinking of Ogryns. Easy mistake to make.

Anyway, on the colours debate, I personally am not a fan of human-skin Ogres (unless the skin colour is from humie skins they have covered their entire bodies with  ). I think that Ogres are far more interesting with abhuman skin colours as they are one of the few races where you actually have liscence to make any colour you want and not be going too heavily against the norm.

I've had a great idea on my Maneaters, I'm going to model them of the stock standard Ogre Bulls although the Maneaters themselves will have left the clan for a time to participate in some holy 'Gut-Crusade'.  I'm going to model them on knights (just the three so it will look pretty unique), have some cool looking green stuff on them and have some cool stances on them to mix it up.  That's the plan for them although nothing will actually start to happen for atleast 2-3 months but I wanted to jot it down anyway!

I've had a great idea on my Maneaters, I'm going to model them of the stock standard Ogre Bulls although the Maneaters themselves will have left the clan for a time to participate in some holy 'Gut-Crusade'.  I'm going to model them on knights (just the three so it will look pretty unique), have some cool looking green stuff on them and have some cool stances on them to mix it up.  That's the plan for them although nothing will actually start to happen for atleast 2-3 months but I wanted to jot it down anyway!

A gut crusade? Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. 

BigD

Bit of an update ogrefolk,

I 'liberated' one of my daughters rhino toys from her Africa play set and it's begun its transition into the Ogre Kingdoms world.

I'm really crap with green stuff but I've impressed myself with this.  I've run out of green stuff for the moment so that's at the top of the 'to buy' list and I'm really looking forward to finishing it off.

Check them out:




Cheers.

It's looking good so far. I ythink you need to bulk up it front shoudlers though. If you look at the GW rinox models you'll see they have a hump like a boar or bufallo over their front shoulders

Thanks
corai

Not much of an update for the weekends work but still a little one.

I've nearly finished my first ogre bull using the human flesh tones and I'm happy with the way it's turned out.



Just awaiting on another tube of green stuff before starting and finishing some other projects.

At the moment I'm feeling like I should pull apart 3-4 Ogre bulls and repose them as I started out not wanting any model to look the same and at the moment they all do.

Had another brain storming session today whilst gluing up some models and in regards to my man eaters on their every so holy gut crusades they will be each from a different area of conflict.

For instance one of my noble ogres might be fighting against the tomb kings so will have the appropriate attire and trophies to prove his campaign.

i like the skin tone.. keep it up,

tnx,
sushi

Well the tube of greenstuff finally arrived in the mail.

So this weekend I'm hoping to sculpt a fair bit of animal hides onto my Ironguts, some bagpipes for the Ogre bulls and maybe even get started on giving the Tyrant a face lift.

That's a nice looking bull you have there, Jimmy. Personally, I prefer an abhuman skintone, but you've done a great job on the skin. How long did it take fory you to get the tartan right?

BigD

Luckily I managed to get the tartan first go so I was pretty stoked with that, I'm actually painting my second and third bull right now (waiting for a coat to dry!) so I'm hoping I can achieve the same effect.

Well a quick update, managed to complete the tartan on two ogres tonight so that's a good indication of how long it takes although that was in an empty house without the wife and kids so probably not a good indication to think of it!

Tomorrow night and for the rest of the week I hope to add the skin tone and the metallics then they'll be ready by the weekend!

i like the skin tone.. keep it up,

tnx,
sushi

Well the tube of greenstuff finally arrived in the mail.

So this weekend I'm hoping to sculpt a fair bit of animal hides onto my Ironguts, some bagpipes for the Ogre bulls and maybe even get started on giving the Tyrant a face lift.

That's a nice looking bull you have there, Jimmy. Personally, I prefer an abhuman skintone, but you've done a great job on the skin. How long did it take fory you to get the tartan right?

BigD

Luckily I managed to get the tartan first go so I was pretty stoked with that, I'm actually painting my second and third bull right now (waiting for a coat to dry!) so I'm hoping I can achieve the same effect.

Well a quick update, managed to complete the tartan on two ogres tonight so that's a good indication of how long it takes although that was in an empty house without the wife and kids so probably not a good indication to think of it!

Tomorrow night and for the rest of the week I hope to add the skin tone and the metallics then they'll be ready by the weekend!

Much needed update guys so please accept my apologies for that!

Completed my first unit of bulls this weekend so that's really exciting that the army has started its painting journey.

I'm happy with the way they turned out but I'm still undecided if I should add warpaint.  What is everyones thoughts on this?



 

I think they look fine without war paint. Keep up the good work!

- Urkol

Brilliant Ogres! Gotta love the floppy hats!

Congratulations on finishing your first unit. I't always rewarding to finish a complete unit.
Your models look fine without warpaint. If you add warpaint the models might look too busy together with the tartan, if you know what I mean (Argh, I can't think of a proper way of putting it...english is not my native language).

BigD

Thanks for the comments.  I've started an Irongut and he's sporting a blue tartan which is a nice change from the green so hopefully I'll have another unit to post up by the end of the week!

C u Jimmy, a tartan army, congrats on your first unit, love the conversions keep up the good work.

Cheers
Spawnchomper

My apologies for the lack of updates but at the moment I'm fully 'painted out'.  I'm hoping with a few days off and not looking at models might get me back into the swing of things.  I'll definitely have a completed Irongut to put up over the weekend though.

I think they look great without warpaint. there's already a really nice accent colour(s) there in the tartan and I think warpaint would only serve to detract from it. Lovely looing unit, congrats on getting it done. Now I'm looking forward to the next one

thanks
Corai

Well guys this Saturday has been a little productive.  I've painted a little bit more of a single Irongut, added heaps of details to the other units.  I also managed to complete the bag pipers for the Ogre Bulls units which are looking pretty cool now.

I've also decided to use the stock standard Tyrant model and Green stuff something on his helmet, doesn't sound very exciting but I really lack the skills to be able to scratch build one and I'm impatient.  Perhaps I'll revisit the concept in a few months time but at the moment thats what I'm sticking with.

I'll upload some pics tomorrow.

Ok finally an update worth paying some attention to!

First and foremost here is the first Irongut I've completed, I don't think the skin is as good as the bulls and maybe I've rushed it a little but hopefully I can fix that up.  I wasn't sure on the metal to begin with but the more I do it the more it grows on me and I really like the effects of it.  Pretty stock standard base but I'm looking at adding far more detail to the rest of my army (Think chariot wheels etc).



Here is the base for my Tyrant, bunch of barrels containing various alcohol.  So that should fit in with the theme nicely!


Lastly here is the musicians or pipers which aren't entirely accurate but I'm happy with the way they've turned out and they will make great additions to the units.


Cheers!

Much needed update guys so please accept my apologies for that!

Completed my first unit of bulls this weekend so that's really exciting that the army has started its painting journey.

I'm happy with the way they turned out but I'm still undecided if I should add warpaint.  What is everyones thoughts on this?



 

I think they look fine without war paint. Keep up the good work!

- Urkol

Brilliant Ogres! Gotta love the floppy hats!

I'm happy with the way they turned out but I'm still undecided if I should add warpaint.  What is everyones thoughts on this?

Congratulations on finishing your first unit. I't always rewarding to finish a complete unit.
Your models look fine without warpaint. If you add warpaint the models might look too busy together with the tartan, if you know what I mean (Argh, I can't think of a proper way of putting it...english is not my native language).

BigD

Thanks for the comments.  I've started an Irongut and he's sporting a blue tartan which is a nice change from the green so hopefully I'll have another unit to post up by the end of the week!

C u Jimmy, a tartan army, congrats on your first unit, love the conversions keep up the good work.

Cheers
Spawnchomper

My apologies for the lack of updates but at the moment I'm fully 'painted out'.  I'm hoping with a few days off and not looking at models might get me back into the swing of things.  I'll definitely have a completed Irongut to put up over the weekend though.

I think they look great without warpaint. there's already a really nice accent colour(s) there in the tartan and I think warpaint would only serve to detract from it. Lovely looing unit, congrats on getting it done. Now I'm looking forward to the next one

thanks
Corai

Well guys this Saturday has been a little productive.  I've painted a little bit more of a single Irongut, added heaps of details to the other units.  I also managed to complete the bag pipers for the Ogre Bulls units which are looking pretty cool now.

I've also decided to use the stock standard Tyrant model and Green stuff something on his helmet, doesn't sound very exciting but I really lack the skills to be able to scratch build one and I'm impatient.  Perhaps I'll revisit the concept in a few months time but at the moment thats what I'm sticking with.

I'll upload some pics tomorrow.

Ok finally an update worth paying some attention to!

First and foremost here is the first Irongut I've completed, I don't think the skin is as good as the bulls and maybe I've rushed it a little but hopefully I can fix that up.  I wasn't sure on the metal to begin with but the more I do it the more it grows on me and I really like the effects of it.  Pretty stock standard base but I'm looking at adding far more detail to the rest of my army (Think chariot wheels etc).



Here is the base for my Tyrant, bunch of barrels containing various alcohol.  So that should fit in with the theme nicely!


Lastly here is the musicians or pipers which aren't entirely accurate but I'm happy with the way they've turned out and they will make great additions to the units.


Cheers!

Hey Jimmy - not looked at your Gnoblog for a while - and I must admit, I couldn't see the tartan working when I first looked - but you've done a fantastic job, the tartan is unique and it works really well. Lets see them bagpipes painted !! Thanks. 

I've never done any patterns or anything like that so the tartan is really a first for me and I'm glad with the way it's turning out.  I can't wait to see the whole army in its glory.

People are instantly recognisable of the army having a Scottish theme which is cool.

Thanks for the praise!  I'll have to try and get some of the pipes painted up in the coming weeks.

This is an awesome army and your work is first-grade.

The only thing I can suggest is that if you're going for a humanoid colouring, (and don't think I'm some sort of perv here) you should darken the nipples.

Thanks for the advice Dragonmaw.  I think you are certainly right and it's just something I've overlooked or just hurried past.

Sweet Irongut, and I too look forward to the Bagpipes being painted.

Ok Guys, the Irongut unit it about 95% complete, the only problem is I have no idea what to do with the banner.  Can someone post for me their banners to give me a source of direction? 

Cheers!

I love the bagpipes! They really drive your chracter home and look just how I'd imagine an ogre-built pair would

thanks
Corai

Quick update guys, I'm currently finishing off the units banner and then I'll base them and I'll have some pictures up in a few hours!

Well guys, here is my first completed Irongut unit, I honestly think that they don't look as good as the bulls for some reason but in saying that I've got nothing but time to get better!



Also I've become really fond of the snow bases and I've added some to my High Elves dragon which I thought that I would share as well.



The goal is to have the tartan fully completed and the skin about 50% done on another unit of Iron guts by next weekend.

Cheers

great looking unit, and the standard really brings them to life. As ever, I love that flame spewing from your dragons maw!

thanks
corai

how did you do the snow bases?

The Ironguts look superb.

Great stuff - I love the banner. And you needed inspiration????   

Thanks for the kind words guys.  Certainly makes painting these models a bit more interesting.

khorgoth - for the snow bases I just mix some pva glue with some bicarb soda so it's a thick paste and apply it to where I want the snow then it's just a matter of sprinkling some bicarb soda onto the mix.

I'm thinking that the banner looks a bit boring and I wouldn't mind painting something like a maw symbol on it in black or red, what are people's thoughts on this?

Cheers guys

nice stuff there, wasnt there a tartan tyrant a while back giving the finger?
 i thought that was great, what are the plans for the tyrant?

Hey Jimmy - not looked at your Gnoblog for a while - and I must admit, I couldn't see the tartan working when I first looked - but you've done a fantastic job, the tartan is unique and it works really well. Lets see them bagpipes painted !! Thanks. 

I've never done any patterns or anything like that so the tartan is really a first for me and I'm glad with the way it's turning out.  I can't wait to see the whole army in its glory.

People are instantly recognisable of the army having a Scottish theme which is cool.

Thanks for the praise!  I'll have to try and get some of the pipes painted up in the coming weeks.

This is an awesome army and your work is first-grade.

The only thing I can suggest is that if you're going for a humanoid colouring, (and don't think I'm some sort of perv here) you should darken the nipples.

Thanks for the advice Dragonmaw.  I think you are certainly right and it's just something I've overlooked or just hurried past.

Sweet Irongut, and I too look forward to the Bagpipes being painted.

Ok Guys, the Irongut unit it about 95% complete, the only problem is I have no idea what to do with the banner.  Can someone post for me their banners to give me a source of direction? 

Cheers!

I love the bagpipes! They really drive your chracter home and look just how I'd imagine an ogre-built pair would

thanks
Corai

Quick update guys, I'm currently finishing off the units banner and then I'll base them and I'll have some pictures up in a few hours!

Well guys, here is my first completed Irongut unit, I honestly think that they don't look as good as the bulls for some reason but in saying that I've got nothing but time to get better!



Also I've become really fond of the snow bases and I've added some to my High Elves dragon which I thought that I would share as well.



The goal is to have the tartan fully completed and the skin about 50% done on another unit of Iron guts by next weekend.

Cheers

great looking unit, and the standard really brings them to life. As ever, I love that flame spewing from your dragons maw!

thanks
corai

how did you do the snow bases?

The Ironguts look superb.

Great stuff - I love the banner. And you needed inspiration????   

Thanks for the kind words guys.  Certainly makes painting these models a bit more interesting.

khorgoth - for the snow bases I just mix some pva glue with some bicarb soda so it's a thick paste and apply it to where I want the snow then it's just a matter of sprinkling some bicarb soda onto the mix.

I'm thinking that the banner looks a bit boring and I wouldn't mind painting something like a maw symbol on it in black or red, what are people's thoughts on this?

Cheers guys

nice stuff there, wasnt there a tartan tyrant a while back giving the finger?
 i thought that was great, what are the plans for the tyrant?

Great stuff, great idea, great paintjob. I really like the tartan and think it turned out really well! Post more pics as soon as possible!

thankyou for the snow technique ill certainly give it a go i love the dragon spitting fire and your tribe is very unique and well done in my opinion

Bit of an update today guys, finished off my second unit of Ironguts but my camera is deciding to play up so I can't even post up a completed pic, you'll just have to take my word for it that they look as good as the last unit.

Also over the weekend I managed to begin my butcher, lots of (poorly) sculpted additions and I've modeled the siege breaker as a giant slab of rock which I think is fitting, once again no pics however it looks pretty crap because of my kindergarten sculpting skills.

Hopefully this camera will sort itself out soon so that I can do a real update!

I just found this gnoblog, and I must say I'm impressed with the work you are doing. I think the ironguts banner is just fine, and doesn't really need anything else. The hats, tartan and bagpipes all look great.

Thanks for the comment Reg06, it really makes it all worthwhile to have other members appreciate the work we all do.

Today was fairly productive, although I didn't get any sculpting done, I did manage to get all my maneaters in the poses I like so that's a huge step.  I also undercoated the rest of my Bulls and Ironguts so I'm nearing the halfway completion mark of the army which is fairly exciting!

I'll try and fix this camera up soon so that I can post some pictures.

Hey guys,

Quick update, sorry for the lack of progress!

I've started painting another unit of Ogre Bulls last night so hopefully I'll have some pictures up over the weekend sometime.

Basically I'm still alive and this gnoblog is beating!

OMG!!!  No updates in over a month, how disgusting!!

Well guys I've become very side tracked with my efforts on starting a campaign as well as  building scenery.  Both warhammer related so I guess there is no major issues with that!  I've got a unit of Bulls sitting on my table which just need the weapons painted but I guess it's no good telling you this, you all want pics!

More to follow.

This is a great armie i love the scottish theme and the bagpipes keep up the good work
pez

Hoots mon - what a great army - keep up the good work

Words are all well and good, and I like to hear that you are progressing, but it don't mean an thing if it ain't go that swing. That photographic swing.

Yeah yeah, I'll get around to it mate.  Between the family, two jobs, and life in general, I'll get around to it!   

Just finished off the second unit of bulls with the pipers so that should be a nice sight for the eyes.

So far I've painted two units of guts and two units of bulls so I've got a tonne of stuff to get moving along with.

Hey guys,

In my current list I'm running a unit of maneaters and rhinox but I can't help but feel it doesn't have the flexibility or the psychological standpoint of running dual gorgers so I'm going to try this list out in the next game.  Comments appreciated.

Tyrant - Tenderiser, Wyrdstone Necklace, Fistful of Laurels

Butcher - Bangstick, Dispel Scroll

Butcher - Skullmantle, Siegebreaker

Butcher - Halfling Cookbook, Dispel Scroll

3 Bulls - extra hand weapon, piper
3 Bulls - extra hand weapon, piper
3 Bulls - extra hand weapon, piper

3 Ironguts - Standard, LOG, Runemaw Banner
3 Ironguts - Standard, LOG
3 Ironguts - Standard, LOG
3 Ironguts - Standard, LOG

25 Gnoblars
21 Gnoblars
21 Gnoblars

8 Gnoblar Trappers

2 Gorgers

Cheers

This is almost a perfect list. I'd lose the halfling cookbook (because it can easily be replicated by a spell), and the siegebreaker (points can be better spent), the runemaw banner (not really all that good), two units of gnoblars (the 25 and 21, because you don't need them), and maybe the extra hand weapons on a couple units of bulls. And you should be able to afford another unit of ironguts, bare this time.
But that's personal preference, your list is great as is.

Thanks for the advice, I'm going to play test this list soon and see how it goes.

I managed to have a game with my list today against a Lizardmen army and it was a fairly good game.  The gnoblars are just brilliant and I will certainly be keeping them in the army list.  I can't help but feel though I should be dropping the 3rd butcher because I think it's a bit of overkill and makes the game not as much fun without it.  In saying that I would replace the butcher with a unit of 3 leadbelchers just to help clean up some units and deter fast cavalry and also to have another unit of Ogres running around on the table.

Thoughts?

Hey guys,

Just took some pretty pictures  of my Ogre bulls and thought that I would post them.  About to get started this afternoon on some Gorgers and hopefully finishing off my butcher.





If I'm lucky and efficient I should have some more pictures up in a few hours.

Well here is the update!






So from the top we have the gorger model with some Scottish memorabilia on him.  My green stuff skills are still crap so don't have a whine about that!  The second gorger has gone for the more fashionable look of skinning one of his opponents and wearing that instead ditching his heritage.   

Last up is my butcher creation, the sculpting looks like arse so don't be to concerned with that because I already know that.  He will be sporting a siege breaking holding it over one shoulder and will have an iron jaw to boot.

Cheers guys.

Great stuff, as always. Thought about doing a caber tosser model? Maybe for the leadbelchers?

about the third butcher -
Ogre magic really has 2 ways to go: Take the magic phase and try to control it, or ignore it except for defense.

To control the magic phase you need 3 butcher - but I would recommend trimming out some banners and gnoblar and hand weapons... as it is, you have the spells to cast but will run short of targets to cast them on.

To ignore the magic phase - 0 or 1 butcher, depending on how much you want to defend against magic, and only you know your opponents enough to tell if a single butcher with 2 scrolls is the way to go, or a couple thiefstones and runemaw with gnoblar is right for you.

I enjoy playing 1 butcher w/2 scrolls the most. I have no magic phase... I usually don't even bother to roll any casts - I am as likely to miscast as roll irresistable force (which is what I need to get the spells off, usually). I enjoy the tactics of movement and getting in the right spots more than casting.

However, when I get in games I really want to win (tounament with prizes or something like that) I play with 3 butchers.

since you are putting so much time and effort into the models, perhaps you should pop in for a WFO game or 2... figure out what you like to play before you build models you don't like/want to use.

Nice pics! I really like the bulls

BigD

Thanks for the comments guys, I've finished constructing both gorgers and the butcher so I'll post pics up in the next few days.

Hey guys,

Just another update, I'm finding rather than do 5-6 hours of modelling every weekend I'm getting more done by doing a few bits and pieces during the week.  So that's the new thing that seems to be working.

First off the butcher armed with the siege breaker.  I really wanted him to have a ridiculously large weapon and I found a piece of plaster from a bit of scenery I had and I took to it with a sander to roughen up the edges.  The only thing I think looks like crap is the gut but next time I can improve on that.



No real changes on the gorgers, just based and the other arms are in.  I just noticed that I have a tiny gap along the abdominals that needs to be filled as well!




Cheers guys.

Well it's been far too long since an update but basically I don't have any pics only news so bear with me.  I've finished adding some greenstuff to the tyrant model so he is ready for painting, I've also begun painting one of the gorgers and I'm happy with the way it's coming along although I will post it and get some opinions on the skin.

Looks like I'll be able to wrap up the OK painting in a few months which would be really good.  I'm down to 4 units left to paint and a few characters and then I'm set.

Will upload some pics later in the week.

Well finally an update worth looking at!!

Ok, here's Angus McThundergut himself:





This is my Gorger that's coming along.  I've started the white but I'm unsure about it.





That's it for now!

Lack of updates I know but hopefully I can bring some consistency to this gnoblog!  Having the High Elves released doesn't help at all as they were my first army and of course I was obligated to get some new shiny toys!

I'm currently painting the last unit of my Ogre bulls and should hopefully have them finished over the course of the weekend.

It's getting pretty exciting as the end is near, I have left to paint the following:

3 Ironguts
Tyrant
3 Butchers (2 yet to be made!)
1 Gorger
3 units of 25 gnoblars

After my main army is complete I'm going to go about making a Rhinox and a unit of maneaters from scratch for a bit of playtime.

Once again my apologies for lack up updates but I'm hoping I can keep the momentum going with the Ogres and finish strong.

Cheers

Thanks for the compliments people.

Tyrant is simply sensational.

How about a few ravaged Southerners scattered about your bases?

Well guys I know it's a bit of thread necromancy however I'm still alive and I haven't finished off this project and I'm determined to get it done.  Better late than never right?

I finished off the second Gorger tonight so I thought I would share it with you all.



I've been working on my High Elves and my brother's Bretonnian's recently but in between them I'll be trying to complete the Ogres.   That's a few units of Gnoblars, trappers, and some characters to go.

Cheers!   

:') I never thought I would see this day come... Jimmy returns to continue the McThundergut Army. By far the best Ogre army I have ever seen...

The gorger looks pretty damn awesome, and I really cannot wait to see the rest of the additions

Good to see you back dude,

JJ

Wheres the butcher?!

Might be time for an army shot.... 

Hi all,

Well I am working away at multiple projects but the Ogre's are getting some love.  This is pointy eared filth I finished on the weekend but it's proof that I'm still painting away!



Next up I think I'll get started on a unit of Gnoblars which isn't very exciting at all but it needs to be done!

 

P.S - Army shot will be coming up this weekend!

Very, very impressive I lkike your choice of palette

JJ

love the tartan!!

a glaze will be a quick fix and will blend all the skin together, take the base coat colour water it right down  then apply

Hey guys

Working on the BSB at the moment using a bull as the base with some green stuff extras.  I'm happy with the way its coming along at the moment.  I've repositioned a leg so it's standing on a dragons head and added some heavy armour but I'll do something to make this look a bit more unique.  I have just finished the detailing of the back of his shield, it's the shame it's the back because I'm rather chuffed with the way it turned out.





Hopefully updates to come shortly.

Well guys I've added armour plating to his shoulder, added some liberated alcoholic barrels, the shield is finished, I did his axe yesterday and his 'brace' of pistols and I'm very pleased with it.  I'll get a final photo up shortly however here's one of the axe and brace.

Ok another update with some pics!

He's all assembled and I've just blu tacked the shield for the time being.  I'm going to attempt to put together a banner pole out of brass rod which will be planted into the ground behind him with a few pillaged banners from other armies.

looks cool like to see it painted 

nice, last one looks nice, sparta/chaos theme??
look to see him painted

That is an awesome ogre. I'm not quite sure about the axe though- it seems almost too big.

Hey guys

Well the High Elves are on hold for the time being and some much needed attention is being poured into the round boys.  Long time overdue I know but better late than never.

Today I managed to get magnets on the bases of 30 gnoblars, put together two movement trays of 30 for them and I'm also trying to put together the BSB's banner.




Lots of pillaged banners basically sewn together in a crude fashion will be the bsb's pride and joy.

So starting to paint 10 gnoblars tonight which hopefully I should finish pretty quickly.

Liquid nailed the gal sheet to the movement trays last night so that part of them is sorted however now I'm going to over the weekend drill and glue some magnets on the underside of the movement tray so I can eventually carry around the army completely on a tray with gal sheet in the bottom.  Save me unpacking/packing it when I only play locally.

Well here's the Friday night update.

Finished off 10 gnoblars, sure the quality isn't like the rest of my army however I can't justify spending anymore than 20 minutes on 2 point models, besides they'll get the job done and I will spend a bit more time on the front rank I'm sure.



Secondly I drilled some thinner and wider magnets (6mm x 1.5mm) into the bottom of the movement trays to eventually magnetise them to a giant base for ease of transportation.  I've just used a blob of greenstuff to adhere them into the holes so after 24 hours I'll do a test to see if they will hold.  If they fail then it's going to be a tiny bit of liquid nails.



Onto another 10 gnoblars!

Well I've had a very productive weekend all things considered.  I finished off another 10 gnoblars today and also picked up the tray to carry the entire army however it's gal sheet so I won't have to put another sheet down to line it which is pretty good.  I've tested the gnoblar unit on it with the magnets in the movement tray and everything works out very well so I'm pleased about that.

I'm onto painting the last 10 gnoblars for the first unit and also the movement tray so as soon as I have them done I'll base them and get some pics of the complete unit up.

Hey guys

Well things are still moving for me which is fantastic, I've pinned the butchers arm, continued painting the last 10 gnoblars for the unit of 30, and last night I managed to magnetise the bases of my Tyrant and the two Gorgers in my army so once they're dry I'll get to see if it will work or not, fingers crossed!

Pics to follow.

Finished off the Gnoblar block last night, one down, one to go.

Pinned the butchers head last night so the plan is to get some green stuff on him at some stage during the week, make some more magnetic movement trays and put more magnets in the bottom of my models.

I tested the Gorgers and Tyrant magnets and they work perfectly so I'm very happy with that.

Well this gnoblog is turning into just me waffling on but I'll persist anyway!

Last night was very productive, I've banged together the last two 3 x 3 movement trays for the Ogre Bulls in my army, magnetised 8 Ogre bulls (have to assemble some over the weekend) and with the help from the wife I managed to get the BSB's banner all together.  I just can't decide on what to put at the top of the banner, should I go for a look out gnoblar or a blood thirsters head?  Tough call and comments would be appreciated.

In other news my 3 year old boy picked up a paint brush for the first time last night and begun painting up the 3 minotaurs from Warhammer Quest.  It’s looking promising as he’s got a steady hand and rock hard concentration.  The wife woke up this morning and he already had a pot of paint opened and had started an Orc archer so that’s very good news for my future armies! 

Tonights plan is to fix the BSB's pole to the base, green stuff some repairs to the banner, green stuff some bits on the Butcher and fix some magnets to the next 30 gnoblars and lastly liquid nail some gal sheet to the last remaining movement trays.  Busy times!

Ok here's the Friday night update.

Assembled and magnetised the remaining 30 gnoblars and filled a few gaps in the banner and the butcher with the remaining green stuff.

Tomorrow's plan is pretty simple, assemble 7 Ogre bulls with some funky kit outs and also re-paint a muso and a standard bearer to their respective units.

Pics tomorrow I promise!

I have a Lookout on my BSB who is himself bearing a standard. Quite funny !

That's a cool idea Ghunter, have you got any pics at all of your BSB?  I might stick the bloodthirsters head on top of the banner and add a gnoblar hanging onto the banner somewhere at the T piece waving a sword or some other suitable weapon for his status.

Things have slowed down a little as I only discovered in the last few days I was short supplied the magnets I need to finish off the movement trays and remaining bulls so I'm a bit annoyed about that only because the supplier hasn't answered any of my queries!

I'll finish assembling the 7 Ogre bulls tonight, base them and the gnoblars and make some repairs to some magnets that have been coming unstuck with green stuff.

I'll try to remember to post one when I'll be back to house. Actually my LO Gnoblar also hand an Orc head too.

I love the Scottish theme of your army, I had real trouble not just lifting the whole theme when I started my OKs.

Looking forward to seeing what you do with your BSB.

As promised, my BSB :



It's quite noticeable on the battlefield 

Thanks for the kind works Viscount, I would have been flattered if you had 'liberated' the idea.  Although your Mongol themed army is certainly going to look fantastic as it grows there is no doubting that.

Thanks for the pic Ghunter!  All a BSB demands is presence on the battlefield and I think you've achieved that.  I think I'm going to go with the bloodthirsters head as a bit of a trophy so that's the task over the weekend.  My wife sewed up all of the banner for me so she's actually requested to paint it which isn't a bad idea I don't think.  We'll wait and see.

Finished assembling the Ogre bulls last night although other than basing them there isn't anymore I can do as I want to green stuff some pelts on them and I'm waiting on a tube to come from a supplier.  Secondly I'm waiting on more magnets to put on the bulls and the last of the movement trays and they'll be ready for painting.

Tonight's task is to base the gnoblars, bulls, butcher, BSB and start painting something if the weather permits me to undercoat!

Hopefully first of two updates for the weekend.

Spent a bit of time on the BSB today and I'm very happy with the results so far.  I've added some blood to his axe and iron fists and I'm really loving the look I've achieved.

I've still got to do a bit more to the skin and fix up a few areas then it's onto the shield and banner itself.






Apologies for the crap photos but I will put up better shots tomorrow.

Started the BSB's shield last night and managed to finish off 10 gnoblars as well as completing their movement tray so some really good progress.

Glued the bloodthirster head to the BSB's banner pole last night so that will be ready for greenstuffing tonight along with the Ogre Bulls, Butcher and Slaughtermaster.  Started painting another 10 gnoblars as well so progress is going well.

I just stumbled upon this gnoblog.... quite incredible my friend. I really like the great feeling of theme the army has... bsb is lookin good keep it up

Thanks for the positive words skraggy and welcome back to the hobby.

Bit of an update as well, work has begun on the BSB's banner collage and it's going to come up an absolute treat.  I've also started 3 Ogre bulls for my second unit and the aim is to complete them over the weekend!

Hi all

Well I haven't dropped off the face of the earth however I have been giving some love to the High elves of mine and any painting for me is a positive thing.

About to finish off the BSB's banner and start on a Butcher to give my clan some love.

Here's what I've been working on lately for those interested.

It's a tough call, but I think I like your greatswords best, although your lord on griffon is impressive as well. Excellent work. Looking forward to seeing some more of your work.

LL

Finished off my first Butcher last night finally, I'm pretty happy with him and will post pics up shortly.

That's some nice gore. What product(s) do you use?

Reg - link to the tutorial:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?autocom=ineo&showarticle=298

Well it's time to give the big boys some much needed love.  I've been on the (losing) Tomb Kings bus recently and believe the army has some real issues so I've packed them up for the time being and am moving on to update my Ogres and hopefully have some fun gaming with them rather than pure frustration!

WIP Ogres:

A much needed update.  Finishing off the Tomb Kings at the moment but some much needed new toys are on the way for the Ogres in the form of an Ironblaster and Mournfang cavalry.

Started and have nearly finished the Avatars of War Ogre Hero which will be my slaughtermaster and I'm pretty happy with it so far.

Great work all around!  Nearly finished mine!



Also finished off the Ogre horde last month:



Also got another box of bulls which I'll turn into Maneaters at some stage and hopefully they'll look awesome.

Apologies for the double post however finished off the SM tonight.  Added some much needed gore to the weapons and am pleased with the result.

Got a package in the mail with my Mournfang Cav and Ironblaster so I'll had to start assembling and adding these to the ranks shortly! 

Some fantastic work here on a beautifully themed army.
Keep 'em coming!


HG

The army's standard for the BSB, some 'liberating' action going on here with banner creation/borrowing. 

BSB finished a while ago, just never got around to posting it.



Started green stuffing some appropriate headwear for the latest additions to the army, Ironblaster and Mournfang.

Begun the Ironblaster.

Apologies for all of the quad posts but it looks like I am truly talking to myself here.

Finished the Ironblaster today and am pretty happy with it.

Hi Jimmy!  Coming along really nicely!  I'm a bit behind, but I give you mad props to the Slaughtermaster - I love the AoW model and you've done a great job with him!  The orange and blue tartan on the IB is also a nice attention draw.

Well done!

Finally after 4 months a reply!  Thanks anvalous! 

Started on my Mournfang last night as well so I'm looking forward to painting them.

i have just started a Scottish themed Ogre army...
it really is so much fun to build up, unlike yourself though, i have given each of my ogres kilts,
though i am stuck with modelling the bellower (musician) as i am really wanting him to be playing the pipes! ,
no idea how i will go about this though, could you give me any hints?,

your army is looking fantastic though, cant wait to see the mournfangs your working on! as that is what im working on atm also ...

Yes I'm back.  I've been focusing a lot on my Tomb Kings lately but its time to give the Ogres some love.  A unit of maneaters to convert, sabretusks and then of course some firebellies.

Mournfang done.



Started assembling the Firebellies and am aiming to have them done by the end of the month.

WIP Firebelly.

Looking great so far Jimmy! What's the tie to your army theme gonna be for this guy?

JJ

Looking great so far Jimmy! What's the tie to your army theme gonna be for this guy?

JJ

Simple...excessive gas.   



Finished.

Wow beautiful work on this army!!! Just amazing!!

Sabretusks done, Maneaters begun.

WIP Maneaters:

Looking great. I'm always amazed when somebody manages to make the fire and smoke on a fire belly look good as it's so easy for it to look rubbish, so well done there! Theme of this blog is great and seems to have a good spirit about it. On your newest addition, the Mohawk style helmet haha, it's great; ever so slightly still looks like it's not attached to the helmet in that way that only a block of green stuff can but there's no fixing that now!

Maneaters done.

The MSU case study begins.

I've always admired the way MSU generals seem to be able to flawlessly develop a growing game plan during battles that unfolds over the course of the game frustrating opponents and seemingly giving up little points with small units.

I often read 'Swordmaster of Hoeth' and his battle reports with MSU force and its amazing with just about every battle I think he's about to get smashed up and with ease he simply turns it around and envelopes his opponents army methodically dismantling them.

I semi attempted MSU with the Tomb Kings but nothing really solid and enjoyed many aspects of what it could bring to the table, its a little different in comparison to Ogres because of the crumble problem and on the flip side our leadership is always going to be a problem.

An article by Swordmaster indicates that part of the MSU success comes from the following key points:

1. MSU approach

Many or Multiple small units. For me the key is keeping the units cheap enough to serve a dual purpose role in the army.  Ironguts and Bulls are perfect for this role as they have good toughness and the Ironguts allows them to tackle most enemies and inflict damage.  Some armies (such as high elves) have the ability to re-roll hits which really helps them inflict serious damage and unfortunately there isn't anything in our army that gives up this ability and our weapon skill is fairly sub standard. 

Currently I'm thinking perhaps a single block of 6 Ironguts for the bunker with a magical banner for the characters to join (not always however), then fill the remainder of the core up with 4-6 blocks of Ogres/Ironguts.  Unit of 4 would run 2x2.  Musicians required on all units to assist with fleeing.

Gnoblars are also to be taken into consideration however I can see these easily getting bogged down due to the different in movement values of the Ogres and these guys but it's something to keep in mind.

Obviously this will be very experimental and lots of improvements will be made as the list continually evolves.

2. Characters

The great debate of Tyrant vs Slaughtermaster is no different in this list.  Tyrant hits like a tonne of bricks however the Slaughtermaster not only can buff the army up (normally only a single unit however) but also provides +4 to dispel which can't be overlooked.

Obviously a BSB is crucial in this list as a cascade of panic tests and quickly spell the end of the army.  Something to consider is a Ld10 Tyrant spreading the Hold Your Ground rule perhaps?

Secondary casters must also be evaluated, I can see the potential in a Firebelly running up besides a ranked unit to trim a rank or two off with a well timed breath weapon attack that could swing the upcoming combat or even a level 1 death using the Tyrant's Leadership 10 for the snipes on big nasties coming to attack.

3. High Strength Attacks

This is where the MSU lists shine. It relies on high quality (something we'll struggle with) and high strength attacks to deal the hurt.  Ironguts are the winners here, S6 attacks will wound most things with ease in the current meta and dish out a good armour save modifier as well but the only problem being is they'll always strike last.  Characters as well can be tooled up to have good strength attacks with or without the striking penalties.  With the addition of impact hits and stomps we can really start to tally up the damage on units.

Pairs of Mournfang Cavalry will be fantastic for this as well, not only with their high movement for a good threat range but they also dish out a high amount of damage.

4. Psychology

A big issue for Ogres.  The BSB/Tyrant can't be everywhere at once.  Whilst Immune to Psychology Maneaters may look tempting I believe they're just far too expensive and die just as easily as Ironguts so I think I'd rather take more guts.  Kineater is an interesting option to look at however the range is too short and the BSB does the job just as well for a bigger effect.

5. Shooting

Unfortunately outside of the Ironblaster, Ogres do not have reliable shooting because of the poor BS value.  Granted Maneaters are decent but very expensive and specialised.  Leadbelchers seem to fit the role of clearing enemy support units as well as the ability to remove a rank from incoming threats.  Smaller units allow shooting to be in more than two areas but also you don't lose all of your shooting support in one enemy charge if they focus on it.

The Ironblaster is an auto-include pure for the reason it brings so much to the Ogre list, it can effectively deal with every big nasty our there in the game currently and also doubles as a pretty good flank charger late game if there isn't anything else left to shoot.

6. Support

Sabretusks as the main workers here, we all know the tricks and they're cheap.

7. Magic

I've mentioned it earlier however its more about having the dispel ability to remove threats that will dismantle the Ogre army, whilst the +4 is very valuable I'll have to weigh up the dual firebelly with a scroll and hellheart between them which could also prove to be an adequate magical defense.

On magic augments you'd nearly be going for bubbleguts every single turn to mitigate damage to the units if you went with the Slaughtermaster and its not a bad bet. 

Fireballs would also help with clearing enemy support units.

Anyway they're just preliminary thoughts on the matter, I do plan on giving this a go, not sure when but its on the cards and I truly hope it can develop into a play style that I enjoy.

I'll have a play around with a list and post it up later.

Upon reading your batrep, I don't feel Maneaters are quite right for your play style. Least not when considering the points outlay... They just didn't really earn back their points. I must say though, that the most disappointing model in that game, in terms of performance, was your Heavens Butcher. It seems as though he struggled to get a spell off all game...

JJ

Ogre Kingdoms vs. Warriors of Chaos
===================================

Overview
--------
Scenario: Dawn Attack
Date played: Sunday, 19 May 2013

Ogre Kingdoms
-------------
  (T) Tyrant - Mawseeker, +3 Attacks
  (B) Bruiser - BSB, Armour of Fortune
  (F1) Firebelly - Ruby Ring (Fireball)
  (F2) Firebelly - Dispel Scroll (Flaming Sword)
  (I1) 6 Ironguts - Std, Mus, +1 Ld
  (I2) 4 Ironguts - Mus
  (I3) 4 Ironguts - Mus
  (L) 4 Leadbelchers - Mus
  (MC1) 2 Mournfang Cavalry - Mus
  (MC2) 2 Mournfang Cavalry - Mus
  (MC3) 2 Mournfang Cavalry - Mus
  (I4) Ironblaster
  (S1) Sabretusk
  (S2) Sabretusk
  (G1) Gorger
  (G2) Gorger

Warriors of Chaos
-----------------
  (CLoD) Chaos Lord on Dragon - 4+ ward, Sword of Might
  (EHB) Exalted Hero - BSB -
  (SoN) Sorcerer of Nurgle - Familiar (Curse of the Leper, Fleshy Abundance, Stream of Corruption)
  (WoK1) 18 Warriors of Khorne - FC - AHW
  (WoK2) 18 Warriors of Khorne - FC - AHW
  (KoK) 5 Knights of Khorne
  (KoN) 5 Knights of Nurgle
  (MHoS1) 5 Marauder Horsemen of Slaanesh
  (MHoS2) 5 Marauder Horsemen of Slaanesh


Deployment
----------



Forgot vanguards for whatever reason...

Turn 1 - Ogre Kingdoms
----------------------
 


Ruby ring goes through killing 3 Marauder Horsemen, 2D6 fireball kills remaining models.  The Leadbelchers unleash into the Knights of Khorne dropping 3 of the models whilst the Ironblaster claims the lives from 2 knights in seperate units.

Turn 1 - Warriors of Chaos
--------------------------
 


Curse of the Leper gets through onto the Warriors of Khorne making them Toughness 6.

Turn 2 - Ogre Kingdoms
----------------------
 



The Gorgers arrive.  Flaming sword goes through onto the Leadbelchers.  The Leadbelchers unload onto the Knights of Khorne putting a wound onto the BSB.  The Ironblaster hits the Dragon fails to wound the Dragon and of course the Lord wards the hit.

Turn 2 - Warriors of Chaos
--------------------------
 


The Dragon charges into the Ironguts whilst the BSB leads the remaining Knight into the Firebelly and Leadbelchers.  The Horsemen attack the Sabretusk.  The Warriors fail their restrain check and stumble 2" forward towards the Mournfang Cavalry. 

Fleshy Abundance is attempted on the Warriors of Khorne however I dispel this saving a scroll for Curse of the Leper however it goes through IF making the Leadbelchers Toughness 1!  This was going to hurt!  The resulting IF kills 2 Knights of Nurgle.  The Khorne Lord does some damage and drops the Ironguts before his Dragon takes a wound from a great weapon however he only over runs 7".

The BSB and Knight easily do enough damage on the T1 Ogres to cause them to break catching them in the pursuit.

Turn 3 - Ogre Kingdoms
----------------------
 


The Tyrants unit and the MFC charge into the Dragon whilst on the left flank the Dual gorgers and the Ironguts and MFC charge into the Khorne warriors.  The Sabretusk flees from the battlefield.  No magic to speak of this round.  Grapeshot kills the final Khorne Knight. The challenge is refused from the Khorne Lord and the Tyrant is put back from combat but its not enough to prevent the damage from taking out the Lord and his mount after he kills 2 Ironguts.

The MFC overrun whlist the Ironguts reform.  On the left flank the Gorgers take a few wounds and 2 Ironguts are killed but after they retaliate there is no more warriors remaining.  Both Gorgers and the MFC continue with there momentum whilst the Ironguts reform.

Turn 3 - Warriors of Chaos
--------------------------
 


Curse of Leper is attempted on the Ironguts Bunker however I pull out the scroll for this and dispel Stream of Corruption.

Turn 4 - Ogre Kingdoms
----------------------
 


The Tyrant's Bunker and MFC charge into the Knights of Nurgle easily destroying them and over running the position.  The Ironblasters just falls short of taking out a rank of Khorne Warriors.

Turn 4 - Warriors of Chaos
--------------------------
 


Warriors of Khorne charge the Ironguts easily taking them out but dangerously exposing them.  The Marauder Horsemen charge into the flank of the IB winning the combat but failing to catch it!

Turn 5 - Ogre Kingdoms
----------------------
 


The MFC charge the rear of the Warriors who manage to kill a single MFC in the process however the damage is just enough to tip breaking point and the nerves of the Northmen run dry and they take off before being trampled underfoot by a single Mournfang.

Turn 5 - Warriors of Chaos
--------------------------
 


The Marauder Horsemen charge into the Ironblaster however facing the brunt of the Rhinox they're destroyed by the beast. 

Op concedes.

Result - Ogre Kingdoms victory.

Conclusion:  So it seems there maybe a future for MSU'ish Ogres but that's not news really.  Plan worked fairly well, I wasn't really sure outside of the Ironblaster how I was going to deal with the dragon but it ended up playing into my favour.  The combat involving the gorgers, guts and MFC was incredible, impact hits and all of the attacks dropped the unit before I even got to apply stomps, a nasty one!  I must remember to flee though!  I'm to used to doing the Undead thing and just holding.  I should have possibly fled with the Firebelly and Leadbelchers and saved them but not worry, also I wasn't counting on the IF Curse getting through onto them and was saving my scroll for that.

With Dawn attack and the randomish deployment it makes it a little trickier to coordinate the forces using it and even my brother commented on this however I feel my units didn't fair too badly from this in this instance.

Unit evaluations:

Tyrant

There was 2 instances when the leadership 10 value came into effect for a panic test and an overrun after destroying the dragon.  Other than that he really didn't do a lot for the army.  Can't help but feel the Slaughtermaster may be the more flexible choice but I'll certainly give it another run.  Not sure on the load out either, perhaps a Stubborn crown would be a good option so he can solo charge out and tie up units?

Bruiser

Not much to tell here, does what a BSB does.

Firebellies

Removed a unit with fireballs, breath weapon put a wound on the Chaos Lord in combat as well.

Ironguts

The 'Guts' of the list.  Bunker unit was great and appeared to have the wounds to take some damage before dishing it out and the units of 4 worked as intended.  This is where I can't help but feel a bubble guts could have made all the difference in casualties taken.

Leadbelchers

Great for chaff removal and taking down some heavily armoured Knights apparently. 

Mournfang Cavalry

Fast, resiliant and of course hit hard.  I certainly had a lot of flexibility with these guys in the list and enjoyed
having them there.  Combo charges is where these guys shine.

Ironblaster

Nothing to say, just dice rolls let me down!

Sabretusks

Not much to say.  They do what they need to.

Gorgers

The dual charge they did certainly helped rack up some wounds onto the Warriors and of course the +2 would have helped for a rear charge had it gone to combat resolution.  180 points well spent.  The reason they didn't charge in the last combat opportunity was they were on 2 wounds and 1 wound respectively and didn't want to give away combat resolution to the 4 attack base models hitting them before me.

Anyway some points to ponder, mainly a general swap perhaps.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to comments as per usual.

Nice Battle report gratz on the win.  It really nice to see MSU work so well the WoC player was clearly and thoroughly out maneuvered.  Personally I all ways love seeing gorgers myself.  That combo charge was just nasty! 

Great report thanks for posting. 

Thanks for chiming in Zolas.

I have to have a play around with the list today in regards to dropping the Tyrant and getting a Slaughtermaster in the list, he just brings so much more utility to the list than the Tyrant and the lower leadership is just something I'll have to deal with I think.

The WoC list looks rather weak - has it all comer lists you guys were playing?

I enjoyed reading your thoughts on the MSU style for OK - I would imagine that two lvl1 firebellies give far too little magic support - especially for dispelling the opponent magic.

I like the ld10 tyrant, he will deal out damage but in my games I cannot justify the pricetag as he cannot go head to head with most bigger stuff without buff magic and hence the points would be better spent on a SM - even a lvl3 with a GW+scroll cheap guy would add another dimension to your army.

Anyway, I'lll definitely be back here for further reading! : )

Hey Joakim I appreciate the input.

On the WOC list, my brother is certainly still trying to find a list and playstyle that works for him and I think the Dragon Lord was just something he wanted to try and get out of his system.  I told him after the game he should try and get a Chimera, and Daemon Prince in there and change the warriors over to Nurgle, that Mark just does so much for the army its great so I can expect a tougher fight next game I have no doubt.

I agree on the 2 level 1's, wasn't as obvious in this game due to the enemy only sporting a level 2 but I'm sure it would have been a completely different game had a level 4 come to the party.  I guess that's where I have to drop the Tyrant and go with the Slaughtermaster and really abide by my own advice about the multiple roles each unit is to have in the army.

Still undecided on magic fitment however, do I keep him cheap like you've mentioned or tool him up with his full allowance?

New list currently:

SM - Level 4
BSB - GW, Talisman of Pres, Ironcurse
Firebelly - Dispel Scroll, Ruby Ring, DBG
6 IG - Mus, Std +1 Ld
2 x 4 IG - Mus
4 Leadbelchers - Mus
3 x 2 MFC - Mus
2 x Gorger
3 x Sabretusks
Ironblaster

I've still got 139 to spend so the SM can have his full allowance.  I'm very partial to the Crown of Command giving him the option to solo charge out of the unit and tie either a character up (obviously careful selection here) or a ranked unit and of course backed up with the usual Fencer's Blades and Scales it makes him a little harder to deal with.

With the remaining points I can put a second level on the Firebelly perhaps?  Flaming sword was nice to have the option of.  Could also add in another Irongut to the bunker unit for extra wounds.

Also been brainstorming about a single unit of MFC with Great Weapons.  Thoughts?

6 Leadbelchers coming along:

MF with GW could work, especially against woc where high AS opponents will be on the board, but the survival-bility is lacking them... the armor and fist ensures the durability of the MF. A gw unit would maybe be killy but not really able to grind a woc player as I see it. But again, you will almost always strike last so why not... at least one unit out of three would be a nice addition.

I was just thinking if your brother would go for a lvl4 shadow mage +spell familiar (+1 spell) hidden in a unit of nuggle warrioers with juggernauts including the bsb on demonic mount incl. a 4++ and gw and other woc greatness (chimera, trolls, double nuggle chariot on the flank etc). Then how would a MSU list perform? I would be afraid that the punch would be lacking?
The lvl4 lord would have 5 shadow spells which all can impact an ogre army alot - the two remains in play spells are nasty and can potentially also wreck your magic phase too... the more I think of it, the more I like WoC... besides their low unit count.

Unfortunately Joakim that's just part of the game, you're going to run into some horrendous match ups from time to time.

Leadbelchers finished! 

Those look ready to cause some serious harm!  Well done.

Thanks.

One is all done.

Now that is awesome! Seriously top quality work, makes me extremely self conscious of my own work now.

Thanks for the kind words guys, I have to admit I was so disappointed with the first airbrush session but today's session proved to be the turn around point and when I look at those photos above I honestly don't believe it's mine which is a pretty cool feeling.  Shame it doesn't fit into my display cabinet!!

Just echoing what everyone else has said...that model is awesome! The fire is just so...well, fiery. Excellent work mate.
G_H

Excellent work bud, top notch

A stunning Flamespyre Phoenix! Bravo!

What's up next?

- Loran

Thanks again guys!

Need to get to work on an Annointed of Asuryan and 5 Ellyrion Reavers.

Some behind the scenes stuff getting done this weekend in regards to warhammer.  Making some movement trays with gal sheet inserts for magnetising troops and adding some to existing trays without them.  Doesn't feel like I'm getting much done but it's all these small things that make the game a bit more enjoyable.


 (Yes that is one movement tray underneath for 70-80ish Skeleton Warriors!    )

Lookin good Jim! I should really get around to doing this to. It's so handy

Excellent, I have half done this...all my ogres have magnets on the bases, but I have never bothered to sort the movement trays out yet. What is the metal sheeting you are using there? The stuff I looked at getting off fleabay was like rubber sheeting with metal in it (like fridge magnets), is this metal sheeting cheaper?
G_H

Just using 1mm Gal sheeting.  I work at a place which has an abundance of it so I haven't paid for any as yet however I certainly don't think it's expensive and it saves a lot of gaming heartache.  I can't help but chuckle when people move models and a rank collapses or falls off, less of a problem with the Ogres however.

Also I really try to get into the habit of when starting a new unit, have the movement tray getting done for them as the same time.  This is a bit of a bad example however a lot of the 'finished' movement trays are for a friends Daemon army (the grey ones), where as the other is for a unit of 4 MFC.

Bit of a low key weekend this one, no games to speak of and only pumped out some movement trays yesterday afternoon.

Great work as usual Jim

~ConOgre

The old boring movement trays!

Nearly finished a unit of Reavers and Annointed of Asuryan however it's a grind at the moment, motivation is at an all time low currently.

On motivation.

For me personally I work two jobs, have 4 kids so as you could imagine the painting time suffers unfortunately.  However this year I'm really determined to make a sizable dent in the grey models I've got sitting in the display cabinet so I'm going to start actually logging how much painting I do and hopefully I'll work out some sort of average on how long it takes me to paint a single unit.

Firstly all painting outside of weekends is an evening task.  Mornings is for lifting heavy things like any good Ogre should and then off to work.  Obviously painting in the evenings certainly has its draw backs.  Generally I'm mentally fatigued after a day at work and it's nearing 8:30pm, eyes have fatigued as well which makes painting that touch more difficult.  I find personally I'm a morning person and can focus a lot more attention into tasks at hand if I tackle them first thing in the morning but unfortunately I've got to work with what I have - not what I want.

This year I'm hoping to get a lot more help from my wife as she's slowly becoming a fan of the painting.  I hope I can use this tool wisely to finish what I have rather than invest in larger projects and end up in the same place in 12 months time.

Motivation of late has been depleted.  I personally think this is due to a lack of gaming.  When I game I tend to want to focus on the modelling aspects in order to present my opponent a nicely painted army they can shoot at, to me that's the pinnacle of Warhammer.  Some times as well life gets in the way of our fantasy little soldiers and this doesn't have positive effects.

In order to hopefully maintain motivation I'm setting a monthly goal list of what I want to paint, no real difference from the monthly painting challenge however I do plan on breaking these goals down even further to daily goals, even if this is as simple as 'Paint Brown areas on model/unit X'.  This gives me a visual check list and then I have proof that the painting is moving along at some sort of speed and progress is being made.  Fingers crossed this little extra strategy works for me and the painting can return to a consistent past time in 2014.

Sorry to hear it hard to get the painting in. But family first after all, best of luck with your endeavours! Hope to see some progress soon

Best regards

~ConOgre

I find a good source of motivation is an upcoming game, whether its next week, next month or in 6 months time it gives me a goal to paint towards....so plan that next game and work out what you need to get done!

Another good thing to get you in a warhammer mood is to listen to warhammer podcasts while you paint....its great for keeping your head in hobby.

Very simple daily goal today, that's getting the first coat on the reavers steeds tails/manes and riders hair.


Ok so the goal completed to today.



On the left we have one of the Reavers from the completed unit for comparison, whilst on the right what the rest of the unit is looking like, starting to look similar which is the desired outcome!

I'm approaching my bandwidth through photobucket so it will be interesting to see when that happens!   #-o

Tomorrow's tiny goal is to put the final coat on the hair/mane/tail areas.

Sorry to hear about the problems with getting to painting. I know the feeling (although no kids yet ), but a long day at uni lectures does leave me fatigued in the evening. All I want to do is just sit on the sofa and watch a movie, with the brain in 'Standby' -mode... I'm also a morning person, so I do start to slow down in the evenings, unless there's something really interesting and adrenaline-pumping going on

I can actually say that the daily goals are a good idea. I've started doing that with the Ogres, as they've got large areas to paint that are easily visible after a new coat of paint. I have set myself monthly goals as well (due to the painting pledges that I'm giving a go). Just keeping track of the monthly target works as a motivation. I've kept the pledge amount down though, as I'm in the final year at uni so I've got classes that actually do need some work and effort

Keep up the good work mate, those Reavers look really good (both the finished and WIP model)!

- Loran

Thanks Loran!



Ok so I managed to get the next goal done last night which was the final coat/highlight on the hair/main/tail pieces so job well done.  I don't think I'll have a chance to paint today as I'm finally scheduling a game in so I'll leave the next goal for Saturday which hopefully will bring the Reavers up to a near completed standard.  As of now I need to paint a few coats of white in some areas, detail the flesh areas and apply the gems to the models.

Mate, these are looking really good so far. On the subject of finding time to do stuff, I have the same problem. After doing 15 hours at work and crawling in at 10-11 at night, it's hard to get motivated and stuck into painting.
In reality I tend to "cop-out" and just hit the forum to look at other peoples stuff...then realize it's 2am and I have to get up again in 3 1/2 hours! Happy days.

G_H

Thanks Loran!



Ok so I managed to get the next goal done last night which was the final coat/highlight on the hair/main/tail pieces so job well done.  I don't think I'll have a chance to paint today as I'm finally scheduling a game in so I'll leave the next goal for Saturday which hopefully will bring the Reavers up to a near completed standard.  As of now I need to paint a few coats of white in some areas, detail the flesh areas and apply the gems to the models.

Your paint job always has a very crisp look to it. Very fitting for these horsemen. Well done man

Thanks Con!

Well today's goal is magnets.

Lots of models and lots of magnets to put on said models!  Going to be a mental battle, there is Tomb Kings, Orcs, Ogres, and of course High Elves and my mate is bringing around the Daemons to do!

Magnets done on over 200 models today, very boring to do however it makes gaming that much quicker I find and for me personally the unit feels complete.

Wow!  That sure is allot of magnets all in one go. Still, at least they will not fall over when some youngster hepped up on blue pop crashes into the end of the gaming table and lays waste to you opponents models....that's when the hours spent putting magnets on will pay dividends!

G_H

Great looking mournfang and love the tower it looks awesome keep up the great work 

dtk

Managed to actually pick up a paint brush last night!  Amazing.  Bit of brown on the MFC so they're coming along.

Time for some daily updates on my behalf to keep motivation levels high.  Got a bit more work done on the MFC this afternoon with some brown highlights, need one more coat which I'm about to do but all of these tiny updates will equate to a complete unit eventually and then of course I can run my dual MFC list!!  :d

More work on the MFC chugging along.  Finished up the various skulls, started eyes.  Have standard to detail and movement tray and I think I'll call them done.

Ok so yesterday's efforts included getting new brushes finally, highlighting the red facial hair and starting on the base coat of the banner.

Got the banner inked last night and have decided to forego any gaming this weekend and have a painting session instead planned with my brother this afternoon.  Hoping to complete the MFC and make a start on the next lot of leadbelchers.

Finally some pictures!!

Finished the Mournfang today (just have to add some snow to the bases and varnish):




Leadbelchers started:



And finally a cool number plate I spotted whilst driving throughout the week:



 

Loving the mournfangs buddy they look great!  And I love the MAW on that number plate.  I actually have a photo of a number plate on my phone witch says "orc"!  I will post it up at some point. 

Thanks Zolas, coming from you that means a lot! 

So did a spot of painting yesterday whilst outside playing with the kidlets.  Nothing fantastic just base coating the Leadbelchers still but it all adds up.  The goal is just to get the cannons and skin washed by the end of the week.

Cannons and skin washed wit Devlan.  Hoping to get more work done on the skin tonight.

Not as productive as I would have liked however the second coat of skin is down on the unit.  Hopefully can make some further progress on them this week as I should have some time up my sleeve due to a back injury!  :-(

Skin is done on the leadbelchers!

Nice work there Jimmy. Have always loved the theme to this army but more over the execution of it. Can't wait to see these guys get some brush love.
It amazes me that you have the patience to paint all that Tartan, I get bored painting banners.
Keep the good work coming mate.

G_H

Thank you sir for the kind words.

I really struggle with painting in general, however I seem to have hit a good run of late and am consistently getting in 15 minutes or so a day which adds up at the end of the week which is all that matters.

Secondly I have the Leadbelchers to finish, some movement trays, a Thundertusk and then it's time to make another purchase and add some more Ogres to the ranks methinks. 

... and then it's time to make another purchase and add some more Ogres to the ranks methinks. 

Always! People fail to understand that in reality Ogres are a horde army and benefit most from being a grand army with at least 10 units of core with a minimum of 12-14+ in each unit...these thinling players have no clue! 

G_H

Although I don't entirely agree tactically, I do find something very normal when looking at a mega giant unit of Ogres, it just seems right.

Also when I referred to adding more Ogres I meant that as a general term more like an excuse to add more units of any kind to the army! 

It's Friday night and I'm about to crack the first pot of paint and get stuck into this tartan.  Some movement trays have just been glued up so I'll add gal sheet to them tomorrow once they are dry tomorrow.

Second unit of 6 Leadbelchers complete!

Happy family portrait:



Have begun Thundertusk.

Coming along.

Thunder...thunder...THUNDERTUSK!!! 

Looking good there Jim, can't wait to see him finished. You have done much better than me, mine is still white undercoat and has been for a month now. Just can't seem to bite the bullet and get on with him.

G_H

Thanks chaps!

More work coming along:

I'll keep talking to myself. 

What do you want? A medal? This guy is looking really good, the progress is pretty damn awesome and I can say this because I know hoe difficult and daunting it is to face painting a big-ass beast as big as this.

I have looked at mine several times and still not really decided where to start...I could go small and start with the shields on it, or go large and see what I could do with the fur. Every time I thing about it I find yet another excuse not to get started on it.

Now the base is done ( I am guessing it's done...it looks done to me!) then this model is really looking sweet. Ranked up or set up with all the other units of the army I am sure this will be one impressive site;

That is of course, when the tartan clad riders is finished!

In response to your original point; of recent I am experiencing the same thing...I don't know why there seems to be less comments on Gnoblogs, maybe everyone is just waiting for the xmas rush?
It's easier for me because I always check "show new replies to your posts" when I log in and I have alerts set for all the Gnoblogs that have taken my interest; yours, Conogres< RJ Payne, Deeteekay, Havoc, Pirk, Warlord Steve etc (quite a few actually) so I get alerted when you have posted up new stuff...more people should do that I guess.

Finally, it's always worth checking the "unread posts since last visit" bit. I guess I do this partially as a mod and partially to see if I have missed anything. I do agree with you that it can be a bit disheartening when you go to the trouble of posting up pictures of stuff you've spent ages painting, then photographing only for no one to pass comment. I think it's cyclic and it will pick up again...I hope so.

I am watching Jimmy, even if I don't always post.

love hugs and big wet sloppy kisses 
G_H

gosh I adore that model. My entire being is hoping to own one myself at some point!

gosh I adore that model. My entire being is hoping to own one myself at some point!

And that's how Khorne Worshipper's start folks. 

Wow! That's a beauty Jim! Did you get that straight from FW?

I will own not only one of these, but all four Great Daemons one day. Or, that's what I use to motivate myself, but in truth will have to make a pact with the Gods themselves to see through...

JJ

It's certainly a big bastard JJ, I actually much prefer the Great Unclean One, tonnes more character about it, presence and I just think with all of the disgusting ikky paint colours you've got to choose from  you can make it look so much more horrific.  Perhaps I'll have that chance as well down the track?

Just need to buy a 1mm drill bit to continue pinning the horns and such, so many tiny bits which it frustrating!

In other news, I'll be painting up a Stonehorn as well before too long which I'm excited about.

Stonehorn for sure.  Angry scotts meet angry Stonehorn!  Perfect combo! 

Kind regards Zolas.

Finally the pinning and green stuffing is all done.  Here he is without his detachable wings and magnetised lunch box hands.



Weather pending will undercoat the big boy tomorrow! 

It's certainly a big bastard JJ, I actually much prefer the Great Unclean One, tonnes more character about it, presence and I just think with all of the disgusting ikky paint colours you've got to choose from  you can make it look so much more horrific.  Perhaps I'll have that chance as well down the track?

I particularly love the FW GUO - I've had the pleasure of painting two for my local GW, but never had the luck to own one myself... I would love to see your take on it, considering your formidable painting ability

JJ

The Great Unclean One and Bloodthirster are probably my two favourite ones out of the four Greater Daemon models FW produces Maybe like the GUO a bit more, but still, the Bloodthirster is one sweet model as well. Those two and the Khorne Daemon Prince are at the top of the list I'll be getting once I get around to ordering more FW stuff

Great work on the Ogres! You've really been at it while I've been busy with "real life stuff" The MFC and Leadbelchers look amazing, and I'm loving the work you've done on the Thundertusk. Amazing stuff mate!

Keep it up!

- Loran

Thanks Loran.

Bit of an update over the weekend I managed to get some red base coat down onto the skin, just need to hit the wings and then it will be time for a WIP pic I think.

I had a very interesting game last night running the magic-less Ogres against the Warriors of Chaos however this time my brother packed a dual Daemon Prince list and boy was it tough.

Some highlights and main points.  Firstly I won but it was more like a victory snatched from my brother, he didn't pull the trigger when he should have and had an idea charge for his Daemon Prince but for whatever reason didn't take it.  Shooting got one Daemon Prince down to a single wound and then a charge later and impact hits killed it whilst the other met a similar fate.  The MFC and Leadbelchers held up the Nurgle Warriors long enough for the rest of the army to make a sizable dent before moving towards them. 

A very interesting game. 

I have a couple of questions Jim; if your brother had not "missed windows" would he have won? Also, how did the "no magic" effect this game from your point of view, that is to say: if you had magic phases would you have had a greater victory or would it not have made too much difference?

G_H

Hi Jimmy, as G_H said im also wondering how a magic less ogre army was? did you feel like you were pushing the proverbial uphill?

Ive got a little tournament coming up that encourages the less popular choices from the army books, was thinking of going with no magic, and also no IB, so im very curious to see if you felt you were playing with one hand tied behind your back or if you felt you were missing out on part of the game?

@GH - Perhaps it would have been a draw, in order for me to win my brother needed to hold up my massive Ogre block, he had 2 unbreakable units so he was more than capable, he just didn't seen the opportunities perhaps like I did.  Magic would have made zero difference to this outcome, just poor play on my part.

@jock - this is the third time I've ran the list so I'm finding it very fun.  I may or may not write a battle report (have already written 2 for it) but I do have another game this morning with the same list and I think I will take it next weekend to a 3 game day at a friend's place.

Work is moving along.

Pretty Epic

That Bloodthirster is a beautiful model and you look to be doing it some justice with that paintwork! Some good inspiration for my considerably less epic 40k daemon prince.

I love this paint job Jimmy, im eager to see how it turns out. As Villain_Ogre said the Bloodthirster is a lovely model, you clearly are doing it justice.

Got to echo everyone else here; fantastic job so far Jimmy. It is a lovely model but a decent paint job on it really does it justice, can't wait to see it finished. You mate is very lucky!

G_H

Thank you so much for the kind words gents.  Going to be highlighting the armour today, that's all I'm writing up for today's goal.

Will put a watered down wash on tonight to smooth out the horns but I'm liking it so far.  Thanks ConOgre for the tutorial on the horns - great work!

First highlight of skin done.

Looking awesome Jimmy that skins is already looking great as is!  Looking forward to seeing more. 

Kind regards Zolas.

Bit more highlighting tonight, the veins are starting to pop.

Oh my.......... this is shaping up to be fantastic!!!! Great work!

Wow Jimmy, this bad boy is really shaping up well; the highlighted veins really pop.

I have to say though, to me this model just sings K'Daai Destroyer. I would love to add one of these beauties to my CD army. I can't wait to see him with his wings but I could definitely see him as a Destroyer.

Hmmm, if I just don't pay the water bill this month I bet I could afford him.....

G_H

Solitary hammer #3

One thing I don't mind doing is having a good old rant to myself about Warhammer.  I can potentially entertain myself for hours just running through list ideas and combinations in my head and currently I have plenty of time.

Today I want to touch on characters in the list and mainly the Tyrant and the Hunter.

I'll open with the Hunter first.  I swapped out his great weapon for the harpoon launcher and whilst it's move or fire only I still think if he vanguards into a solid position start game I can at least get 2 shots off before he needs to join the fray.  I dropped the 2+ as for the sword of might and 5+ ward but that needs some testing.  I don't want him at s5 because he needs to be a bit of a can opener but don't want him dropping quick either.  Will be interesting to see how it goes facing wood elves or empire for example.

The Tyrant on the other hand is currently swinging last with a great weapon and I'm not sure I like the idea.  Sure with maw seeker and a ward he's a bit of a tank however he's not the war mongering damage dealing leader he should be.  Granted he's not going to match a tooled up chaos lord or vampire but his role is to spread his leadership and support whatever unit he resides in which will commonly be the Ironguts.  There are a bunch of combinations out there but what is the optimal one for an MSU all rounder?

The Tyrant should be designed in mind with the ability to solo charge out of the unit to challenge/tie up/divert/sacrifice but this doesn't always automatically mean he needs the crown of command to be successful.  A careful look at this list can tick the boxes in terms of what I already have:

- rank and file killers

MFC, Stonehorn and Ironguts to a degree, Ogres can be included as well.

- anti armour

Ironguts and Stonehorn

- character killer

Is this where the Tyrant needs to be?

- monster killer

Ironblaster, Stonehorn, Firebelly/Hunter to a degree

As already touched on the tyrant isn't a premiere character killer however he can be designed to give and take a bit of punishment.  Other tricksters shard is mandatory I feel as every character packs a ward save.  This begs the question if I'm going 100% character hunter then does the sword of anti heroes get a mention?  I like it but can't help but feel perhaps a great weapon is it's equal with anything less than a single character?

That's the random musings for This day anyway. 

Solitary Hammer #4

Welcome welcome.  Pull up a chair.

Straight into it today with the current MSU simulation list:

Tyrant - 100 points of stuff
Bruiser - BSB, GW, HA, 4+ ward
Firebelly - Arabyan carpet, GW, Lv 2
Hunter - Harpoon Launcher, Sword of Might, 5+ ward
2 x 20 Gnoblars - Trappers
2 x 3 Ogres - Musician, XHW
7 Ironguts - FC, +1 Mv
2 x MFC - Mus, HA, IF
3 x 1 Sabretusks
Ironblaster
Stonehorn - Harpoon Launcher

There it is.  A good selection of units that are fastish, can setup mutual opportunities to hit hard and hopefully win the day.  Granted a lot of this is theory based currently until I start getting models on the table I 2015 but hopefully it makes for entertaining reading at least.

I like the list but there are some element I'm not sold on.  For instance the Gnoblars, am I doing myself a disservice by including them in my list, they are the slowest element after all.  Secondly if I keep them I think a unit of 10 does the same job as 20.  I've basically got then purely for the trappers against infantry units.  Probably not a great use of points.  An MSU army will not win on rank bonuses.

If the Gnoblars are dropped entirely it makes room for another set of Ogres, a minimal unit of Ironguts, maybe even a unit of Leadbelchers which in that number would probably be of little effect.

I don't believe I'm using Ogres effectively to block and counter some charges so that's something I really need to focus on as if this is to be successful every single aspect of it needs to be working like a well oiled machine.  It's no good the general being very switched on with a few elements of the army and acting like a beginner with the rest of it.

I'm still stuck with the Tyrant dilemma from yesterday so that's something to take into consideration as well and how that can possibly shape the Core selections.

Loving these random thoughts/mutterings/conversations with yourself. Always a good read m8!

Solitary Hammer #5

Good morning wherever you may be this fine day.

I came to the conclusion yesterday that I'd run the Tyrant with the following gear:

4+ ward armour
Sword of anti heroes
Other tricksters shard
Dragonbane Gem

He will aim for the nearest enemy character and wander over and say hello.  This will give him a minimum 6 attacks at strength 6.  Whilst I'm not sure if this is too specialised as I could drop the sword and give him a great weapon and giant breaker for example for S8 attacks at a healthy -5 to armour saves anyway.  Along with a S6 impact hit at a minimum.  Will have to trial both of them at some stage.

Today's focus is on Core and what is available to the MSU force.  I've selected 3 man strong blocks of Ogres to fill a number of roles in this force.  Firstly to tackle fast cavalry as I don't have much shooting.  Granted I don't have much chance to catch them but with let's say a carpet bearing firebelly around to back them up the chances increase a little.  Secondly to flee from an enemies main unit when they are ready to commit to in theory open them up to counter charges.  Thirdly to capitalise in any given opportunities to mutually support other charges from the MSU force.  They are equipped with musicians in each unit however I'm unsure of their merit at the moment.  Need to wait and see.

The gnoblars I'm still on the fence about, right now I feel like I'm taking them purely for the trappers and if that's the case then they simply aren't worth it.  20 will never break steadfast after they have taken damage and the speed they march at means the remainder of the MSU force must linger behind if I want something to charge the Gnoblar which effectively can dictate what I'm doing.  I don't like a single unit dictating the rest of the army by any means so some solutions.  Do I amalgamate the two units into a single meaning they can potentially break steadfast?  Sure it's a solution however it still doesn't address the lack of speed they will experience which is always the reasons the Gnoblars get left behind not only on the field of battle but sometimes from the army list itself.  Still some thinking to be done on this point and of course it raises the point of what to do with the leftover points if they are dropped entirely.

The Ironguts are perhaps our premiere core selection and we all know why, great weapons and magic banner.  Great to stick characters in and get them around.  I have a few problems with them however and it's all areas I need to improve on.  Previously holding a lot of experience with Tomb Kings I am not exactly canny with the art of just rushing in and smashing which is to a large degree what the Ogres are all about.  I certainly don't push and pressure the opponent with the block of Ironguts I have in the army and it's something that I need to master.  I want my opponent looking across the table identifying it as one of the greatest threats facing against them currently.  I hate taking on units one on one and I think the MSU build will fail on that merit.  The key is to make every matchup a favourable one with the Ironguts and that is to have something else charging with them all the time.  I also expect to have them in no less than two combats per game, that's my goal as they are the most expensive unit on the table and need to pull their weight (pun intended).  More than likely they will also always house two characters, this also draws a lot of attention and will ensure they are receiving a fair share of the enemies attention in the form of redirectors, shooing, magic and of course the enemies primary combat block.

Whilst all of the theory hammering in the world is great the best test is against the enemy.  There is also one element where my list has really failed upon and that's in a blood and glory scenario, currently I'm sporting just a banner in the Ironguts and the BSB, other than that the enemy would need to nail the Tyrant/guts and or Bsb in those combinations.  That would mean everything would basically turtle up around my bunker before trying to break out themselves to ensure their survival.

@evo - thank you sir! 

- character killer

Is this where the Tyrant needs to be?

I dunno but maybe a Deathmaster on Carpet needs to be here?

Whilst I love to idea of the death sporting SM on carpet I'm not sure how practical it will be in this army.  What the Tyrant brings is the much needed leadership boost, bring in the SM and it's 8 across the board whilst it's probably worth experimenting with and required a bit more management in terms of unit placement to ensure BSB gets maximum coverage for the re-roll I'm not sure I'm ready to start carving out characters in my list just yet even when I don't have a single game under my belt with it.  Secondly if I went that way it means the Firebelly would be back to foot slogging duty, not that that is a terrible thing as you'll normally find him in that role for the typical Ogre list anyway and this would add a bit more magical defence to the list.  However the big point of course is I'd probably have to drop him and add a Maw Butchet anyway which seems a shame when points are tight anyway and I'd literally be paying for a model purely to unlock another lore.  Doesn't seem economical to me.

On the plus side however the flying SM brings a lot of flexibility to the list, a mobile sniper platform which can wreck havoc upon most armies and monsters will think twice about coming into range of spells and chances are if they aren't near the SM I can make sure they are within shooting range of the Ironblaster.  This is where this build really shines. Also soul blight is fantastic as a offensive and defensive tool making it easier for everything targeting a unit whether it be combat or shooting then of course the flip side it can take the edge off a brutal combat and and sometimes even swing it into our favour.  Doom & darkness is a great remains in play spell for inflicting harsher panic tests but also with a bit of luck some failed fear tests which once again can swing combats.

Give the SM the complimentary GW and he's happy to tackle light units and even assist with other MSU forces in the mix.

Still some issues however but I would love to have a level 4 back into the fold.  Wait and see but thanks for the comment MG!! 

Solitary Hammer #6

Well I'm nearly at the end of my complete dissection of my list, there are a few things left to talk about and one of them is the special choices. 

Firstly the trusty Sabretusks.  Whilst not top trusty in leadership values I can honestly say this unit alone has dictated many games for me and single handily shaped events that would go on to win me the game.  If you ever want and Ogre to work for his food, take out his Sabretusks and make him think.

There are no surprises with using this unit, I wrote a whole article on them a while back and nothing has changed.  The extra utility from them however is the inclusion of the Hunter in the list giving him another platform to operate from.  Now granted he's not the special choice but I almost feel like he is because when I'm putting down the Sabretusks I have 3 opportunities to think about where the Hunter is going to be positioned to vanguard into some cunning spot to let off some harpoons in some poor foes direction.  I've mentioned it previously as well but because the opponents will be well aware of what's going on I won't be forced into even placing him with the Sabretusks.  One careful part of this unison I'll be monitoring is making sure I have good timing in terms of when the Master and beast part ways.  Whilst swiftstride is so tempting to hold onto I need to ensure little puppy is holding up some hardcore unit gunning for me for maximum frustration for my opponents.

Lastly, Mournfang Cavalry, whilst they were once upon a staple in every single Ogre list they have eventually been worked out pretty quickly, despite this I don't feel that's a reason to stop using them, but more so to work out ways to be smarter with them.  The MF darts as I like to call them are pretty much well armoured chariots, you've got impact hits and beyond that a decent amount of shoddy weapon skill attacks.  Whilst they are frustrating because they hit 50% of the time Ogre can often fall back on their higher strength value.  Enter semi bright Ogre idea of giving them great weapons.  Yes I know that's downright sacrilege I hear you say, but remember they have a totally different role than the unit of 4 sporting the DHB typically found in Ogre Kingdoms lists.  I'm not expecting my darts to rampage through units like the above 4 strong would.  Granted it's a wild idea and it may not work however it just might.  Having mobile Ironguts isn't such a bad idea, they'll be dishing out impact hits, take hits back, then dish out 8 attacks from the Mournfang and then 6 high strength attacks.  Certainly a 3+ save isn't the greatest buts it's exactly 1 less then the best armour save Ogres have access to.  I lose out on a parry save as well but arguably just about everything in my list that will be charging with the MFC will be easier to wound/damage anyway in terms of armour so that's something to think about.

That's it!  Thanks again for reading and please comment! 

I do enjoy reading your ramblings. Do you have any examples of lists used by Australian Master Pawel Sajewicz? I know hardly anything about MSU so hoping looking at a Masters list it may enlighten me further

@MG - thank you sir.  As to his list I have the oddest feeling he may be turning up to have a chat at some stage and I've no doubt he will bring his knowledge and share his list.

Found it:

Loremaster
Bsb - Reaver bow setup
15 Archers
15 Seaguard
2 x 5 Reavers
2 x 5 Dragon Princes
2 x 12 Swordmasters
2 x 10 White Lions
Bolt thrower
2 x Great eagles
2 x 5 Sisters

Solitary Hammer #7

For me I've always been fascinated historically when a force of inferior numbers relied on superior tactics and training to win the day.  The Spartans are a great example to this with their incredible physical regime and military discipline from a very young age.  It's hardly a surprise that historians would often compare a single soldier from Sparta equivalent for 3-5 and often more soldiers from other empires.

Comparing this to the tabletop gaming world and I view the MSU force with similar guise.  Although 'point for point' the two meeting forces are close to identical the MSU force doesn't take advantage of the rules in 8th edition Warhammer that favour large fighting blocks of warriors.  Steadfast comes to mind instantly and the second rule that also favours large regiments in the ability for everything to attack in two ranks.  Of course it's also worth mentioning the Ogres don't have military discipline and they aren't the worlds greatest combatants in comparison to say always striking first elves so the odds are certainly stacked against me on this embarkation.

Today I'm focusing on magic.  Currently only sporting a level 2 firebelly I don't think getting spells through against a level 4 will be a common occurrence however there are some instances where it will happen.  Perhaps the opposing general will roll poorly or perhaps I've been lucky enough to dispatch the enemy wizard.  With this in mind it's worth visiting the Firebelly and the Lore of Fire.

Firstly with the introduction of the Firebelly this rewrite people got excited about the prospect of a fire breathing Ogre walking around.  I'm a firm believer that most people get tunnel vision with breath weapons and forget about the benefits when using them outside of combat.  Warhammer is basically a game a damage control, if you can inflict more damage on your opponent while mitigating your own you'll often carry the day.  A lot of instances I read about people using the firebelly for the extra 2D6 flaming hits.  That's an average of 7 hits and let's say 3-4 wounds depending on who it is against etc.  This is where the tried and tested Sabretusk comes in handy big time.  Park him in front of baddie unit and then bring the Firebelly out to play, against a standard infantry (20 or 25mm) you are going to hit way more than 7 models and to me that's less models entering a fight and you could potentially peel off ranks rather than facing a steadfast unit in combat.  I'm the first to put my hand up and admit this is all well and good given 'perfect' warhammer conditions that we often don't see.  I'm sure you are probably thinking "what about my exposed firebelly now?" or "my enemy will have units to charge the firebelly" or even "who uses infantry anymore??" but rest assured this is just a thought and opinion and like any old train of thought take what works for you, apply it To your play style and move on.  Very simple. 

Swinging this back around to the Carpetbelly, he won't be joining any units so ultimately he'll be able to get into a good position to provide this rank peeling effect and if he's in danger from being charged and hopefully zoom away to safety to burn another day.  Equipped with a great weapon he also becomes a bit of a unit that my opponent can't afford to ignore as he's more than capable of flanking a small unit of infantry or fast cav, breaking them and then slamming into another unit which is already pinned for another round of combat or vice versa.  He also is a bit of a glass cannon with nothing but 4 wounds and toughness 5 from preventing damage, granted it's better then average however it takes little more than focused effort to drop him.  Of course the aged old argument/statement "if they aim for model A then it means they aren't shooting the rest of my army". Whilst absolutely true I think it's a flawed statement, ideally you don't want your at taking any damage but we know that's unrealistic.  Our little beloved toy soldiers are going to get removed one by one or at least in my opinion they should.  Give your opponent poor targets to shoot/aim at.  So rather than present the Ironblaster first turn for example ensure you only have a unit that can absorb the damage for a turn (core) or something with enough armour to be able to shrug some of it off (MFC).  The firebelly falls into this category, play him wisely and there is no reason he shouldn't be zooming around come turn 6.  It will be a learning curve I have no doubt but just another to add to the list.

On the Lore of Fire, now ironically enough as I'm typing this I am also burning a pile of rubbish marvelling in natures heat.  Amazing stuff, in a controlled environment fire is the greatest survival tool about, boil water, cook food and of course provide warmth (the second point being the most applicable to Ogres). However let it get out of control and you are in life threatening amounts of trouble.  This is the part I want to harness on the wee battlefields of warhammer.  The lore of fire is an underrated lore and why wouldn't it be when all of it is a measly S4 and the spells are a little lacking.  I totally agree however I also think it's a great lore for the Ogre MSU cause.  Without any reliable shooting at my hand I have to rely on the almighty fireball to clear enemy fast cav and redirectors.  They are my primary concern as like my Sabretusks they have the ability to swing the game.

I'll only be focusing on 3 spells as the rest of them are far too situational for me.

Fireball - Basically 3 spells in 1.  Great for clearing small units of trying to strip some ranks off.  Can't forget sneaking some wounds through against regenerating units as well.  Pretty cheap to cast and range shouldn't be a problem given the Firebelly and his magic carpet.

Flame Cloak - Another interesting take.  Basically I see it as a breath weapon on a unit in combat.  Once again it averages 7 hits which is pretty good if you cast it on a Sabretusk for example that 'must' be dealt with as know you've dealt your opponent a very sour hand, not only does he have to engage a unit that will probably pull him into a counter charge zone now he's also going to take considerable more damage doing it.  If it's fast cav just trying to clear the tusk they may even be breaking themselves!  I also see it as a way of adding more impact hits to each unit tolling up the damage, of course great for tackling regen units as well.

Flaming Sword - Last to mention but hardly because of utility.  I think if I had the choice I would always take this and Fireball because the +1 to wound and flaming is amazing.  The benefits of the shooting on the Ironblaster goes without saying but even on the Firebelly himself his breath weapon will be often wounding on 2's or 3's which is guaranteed to skyrocket damage.  Flaming impact hits are always welcomed against certain opponents and it allows uncertain combats against those type of units to be a bit more secure.  Whilst it's certainly a shame that the auto wounding is out the window I still feel a lot of value in this spell.

Thanks for reading again!  Please comment if you have read anything of value.

Never thought of putting flame cloak on a Sabretusk. I think I might try that sometime.   I am enjoying your insights thank you for writing them down and sharing.

I don't think you can put cascading fire cloak on a sabretusk, it has to be on the fb (and his unit).

Remains in play. Cascading Fire-Cloak is an augment spell cast upon the Wizard and his unit (if any). At the end of each Magic phase, any enemy unit in base contact with the target immediately suffers 2D6 Strength 4 hit

I have never tried a carpetbelly, might want to give him a try.

Oh dear, right you are sir!  . I guess that spell can be slightly out of favour then.

It's still a nice spell for getting rid of regen when you charge, or for your combat block in small point games. But I prefer fulminating flame cage in the larger games. Making a large horde think twice about moving (because they will take a big hit) is really nice for controlling the other players movement. It's not as good as curse of Anheiriar but its still okay.

Fireball and flaming sword are still the headrunners though.

That spell does have it's uses.  I used this spell and it pretty much torched the majority of a witch elf unit before combat!  (rolled double 6 for hits!)

The fact that it's damage comes in the magic phase is amazing as it hit's before combat starts and really works well against elf units!  Of course being limited to 1 unit is a set back but as it remains in play you can cast it and your opponent tend to forget about it and then it's too late.    Dont forget that as it happens every magic phase that is twice a turn, assuming it's not dispelled.   

Kind regards Zolas.

@MG - thank you sir.  As to his list I have the oddest feeling he may be turning up to have a chat at some stage and I've no doubt he will bring his knowledge and share his list.

Found it:

Loremaster
Bsb - Reaver bow setup
15 Archers
15 Seaguard
2 x 5 Reavers
2 x 5 Dragon Princes
2 x 12 Swordmasters
2 x 10 White Lions
Bolt thrower
2 x Great eagles
2 x 5 Sisters

Thank you. Have you thought about going like for like where is possible? Small Irongut units instead of the Swordmasters or White Lions for example. Logically to me that would be the best place to start.

Off the top of my head my list would look something like this
Level 4 Slaughtermaster with Fencers blade/Glittering Scales combo
BSB
Firebelly
2x 3 Ogre arts
3x 3 Ironguts
3 Ironguts with Standard of Discipline
2x 4 Leadbelchers
2x 2 Mournfang Cavalry
2x 1 Sabretusk
Ironblaster

Edit: Could MSU be the place where Yhetees have a place? With their higher movement you could use them like fast cavalry

Greetings!

I have a great honor to be Jimmy's friend and warhammer buddy and when he finally mentioned he is writing this fantastic series of Solitary Hammer posts I could not resist the temptation to jump in! I always admired his creativity and persistence when he embarked on 100 battles journey with his trusty Tomb Kings.

It is then a great pleasure to read about his ideas on Ogres and how to break the mold with this army, as he often says himself.

As it is my first post here, let me allow short introduction.

I have been playing warhammer since the early 4th edition and I always played with High Elves. I am a slow painter so that didn't help to amass huge number of models over the years either. But I remained faithful to that army, despite some minor temptations. But interestingly, I started playing regularly with 8th edition and even more so when I came to Australia. Great community, very varied events, if only they were a little bit closer to each other.

As to Multiple Small Units concept I discovered it long time ago in 6th edition at Druchii.net, Dark Elves website. It  was a bold idea but back then DE players had poor army book and that required some revolutionary thinking to overcome the disadvantages. I tried it back then but with not many opportunities to play games I could not learn that new style properly.

Fortunately for me, the idea was resurrected by SmithF over warhammer.org.uk forum and I decided to try it again. This time, it worked and I was very happy to play with small regiments as it ensured each game was challenging and interesting for me and my opponents.

It is risky style of play, as small units do not have staying power but I found it very rewarding. And I learned about deployment and movement phase much more with this style than I did over all the years before.

In the end I win more than I lose and I always have interesting games, the goal I wanted to achieve in the first place. I try to go to tournaments because it gives me the opportunity to play against new people (and recently it is the only chance to have games) and greater variety of armies. I used to play on Universal Battle website, where I had a great pleasure to play against people from all over the world. I plan to come back to regular playing, despite the fact I have less time for the hobby these days.

I had some successes with this army hence I am convinced it can work (as Jimmy said I made it to Australian Masters, the event where the highest ranking players are invited to participate, which was a fantastic experience!).

I you are interested in more details I am currently updating my blog (I am half way through as I have reports from almost 130 games now): http://swordmasterofhoeth.blogspot.com.au/

Ok, enough of self-advertisement

I am very happy Jimmy thinks my MSU bias can be helpful and I am always glad to discuss anything warhammer related with him. Developing new concept for the army is not an easy thing but if there is a persistent and single minded player out there to do something like that then it is definitely Jimmy.

I will be more than happy to join the discussion here and I would like to encourage you to do some brainstorming. My own approach is that almost everything can work, even the units that look weak. It is often the case that one needs to think in a broader context of the army as something more than just collection of units and characters. That is why I often almost entirely skip the army list sections and go straight to battle reports.

But Jimmy put a lot of effort into his blog already. His recent posts are really thought provoking and deserve to be discussed. I will do my best to add some comments to his ideas and hopefully we will see his army in action!

Cheers!

Thanks gents, I'm operating on dust for internet now so will be brief.  SM thanks so much for chiming in, your input is always a credit to whatever community you are a part of.

@MG - I did think about approaching it like last edition but the Ironguts concern me.  Unless they hit a flank you'll be lucky to have 1-2 guts hitting back.  Logically you'll out your SM in the unit with banner and that automatically gets targeted so I wouldn't think it would last to see combat.  That's initial thoughts.  Anyway, hopefully I will return in 24-48 hours and might even get a game up in the next 7-10 days.

Greetings!

Thanks, Jimmy! I really appreciate your kind words, let's see if I can live up to the reputation

I was wondering how I could add to your excellent posts and I decided I will try to give my thoughts on subjects you have mentioned in each part of Solitary Warhammer so far.

Solitary Warhammer #1 - Can Ogres do MSU?

I of course think they can. Let me explain why. In general, I perceive MSU force as a swarming army that uses speed and maneuverability to overwhelm a bigger threat by local superiority. I must admit I was influenced by some historical reading and for me, Mongols under one of their greatest general, Subodai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subutai). They were fast, relentless, extremely well organized, disciplined and trained and always worked as a team.

In the small world of Warhammer we have our limitations imposed by rules. It does not have to be a negative thing at all. Just a comment that we need to work out tactics in the frame of the rules we have. It means that in order to have a successful MSU force following things should be present:

1. Speed and Maneuverability

Ogres with M6 are faster than typical infantry force but not as fast as cavalry force. In comparison to the army I have, for example, they are faster than my infantry part but slower than cavalry. It means that they should be fast enough to use it as an advantage but may encounter some problems with enemy cavalry. You still have Mournfangs, Swiftstriding Maneaters or Stonehorns, for example, to bring some faster and still hard hitting troops to the table.

Maneuverability is totally different thing than speed though. In the old days where skirmishers had 360 degree visibility that was a dream coming through. They could charge in many directions and their area of influence was amazing.

But 8th edition brought something great - swift reform. It is really, really good thing to have and I insist on giving musicians to every single unit you have just for this purpose.

2. High Strength/Numerous Attacks

It is not enough to surround bigger unit with many of your own, you need to pack a punch. That is why you need high strength and numerous attacks. It is even more so for Ogres due to their average WS and low initiative as they will need to overcome all the wounds they are going to suffer from the faster enemy.

The advantage Ogres also posses is the fact they are mainly Monstrous Infantry. It means you need to inflict 3 wounds to a unit to start deducing the attacks that are going to go back at you.

3. Stubborn, Unbreakable, Immune to Psychology

All these factors can add to the successful force. Stubborn units are often used to hold the enemy in place so the rest can move around the flanks for example. Or even avoid the unit entirely and hit something else.

Unbreakable regiments are even better at it.

Immune to Psychology can be an asset when the unit operates outside of the influence of the general and/or BSB so that the fact they are small and can lose 25% easier than big units does not affect them. It is, however, a double edged sword as they cannot flee so you have to be careful how you position them.

4. Army specific special rules

These are always worth exploiting. Sometimes you can use them in any circumstances, sometimes you cannot. Ogre Charge is a rule that seems to work regardless of the style but its impact (pun intended!) depends on the number of bodies.

I believe that it is worthy getting Ogre units 6 strong (with characters at least) as it potentially allows for nice S5 impacts and gives you enough bodies to attack with enough numbers to overcome striking after the faster enemy. While it may reduce the number of units it is not going to reduce it too much not to stay true to the MSU concept.

5. Characters as units

It seems that there are more and more  characters out there, often with equipment that makes them difficult to hurt by regular troops. It is also the case that some characters can perform roles other units cannot. At the beginning of the journey I added just an archmage and bsb. Archmage was the general, his better Ld helped a little to keep the troops in line and I just wanted somebody to cast spells. His main role was to dispel enemy attempts though. BSB is the most important model in the army, even more so than the general as his re-rolls are priceless.

Now I am trying to include more characters, especially flying ones, as my units have more trouble with catching the enemy. But I treat them as the units on their own too. They add some more flexibility to the army for sure.

What I like about current approach Jimmy embarked upon is the fact that he actually tries to keep the balance between the army list building and some game experience, even if it means playing against himself. It is a very good exercise and if you have time to do so, go for it! You will learn how to play with the force you dread and at the same time see its weaknesses to be exploited much clearer.

And that experience will tell you what works for you and what does not.

Last but not least a comment on army list building. It is very tempting to use the list of somebody else and try to imitate it. There is nothing wrong with it but be careful. Even between 3 elven armies, that have similar tools, there are enough differences so that copying does not really work as smoothly as it may seem. You really need to take into account inherent strengths and weaknesses.

So while I don't want you to feel discouraged (and by all means try any force you want) try to do that in a conscious manner so that you know what you request from every and each of your regiment.

Cheers!

Thanks for the in depth reply SM, I'm back in country now finally so not only have the time to make a decent reply worthy but will also be 'physically' endeavouring on the MSU journey this week.  Just need to find a willing opponent!

Solitary Warhammer #1 - Can Ogres do MSU?

Of course I totally agree with you.  As we've had many conversations in the past about what armies can and cannot do it effectively Ogres certainly have less difficulty doing it than Tomb Kings previously did.  Also I want to point out that armies I think would really struggle with it have been shown to be able to hold their own with it as I can recollect SmithF posting a battle report with Dwarf MSU and I think that perhaps even you've fought against them on an occasion.  Either way every army has their own unique take on the MSU principles and of course bring their own set of strengths and weaknesses to the fold.  The real question however for is not can it work, but more so can I hold onto these strengths and present a solid argument.  I think all the theory is nearly complete so it's time to get some battlefield experience happening and posted. 

1. Speed and Maneuverability

On the swift reform you've raised an important note worth highlighting.  I don't think in any of my test games in battle chronicler I've ever used it.  I might have to go over some of your games and even look forward to your analysis post games on how I could have used this perhaps a bit more effectively to change the flow of the game.

2. High Strength/Numerous Attacks

This is the problem I'll face.  I've got access to tonnes of high strength attacks but the problem being most of them are striking last.  This is the aged old argument, sure I can hit hard but it's after I've taken the majority of the enemies attack initially (excluding impact hits of course).  I've highlighted this before but it's where the flank charge is so crucial for me as it greatly will minimise that incoming damage.  Of course way easier said than done like most things in Warhammer.  With the low WS you can bank around the 50% mark of outgoing attacks hitting.  Not great odds however there isn't much I can do about it currently.  There are other factors such as fear and magic etc but I like to not include them at this stage.

3. Stubborn, Unbreakable, Immune to Psychology

You've raised an important point for me that has been sticking out since I originally read this post a few days ago.  Stubborn.  Ogres have access to a few of these units, Maneaters and Giants but also whatever you wish to put the Crown of Command on.  Not bad.  Perhaps however it's a crime that I don't have a single one of these units in the list!  I might have to look into that as undoubtedly they'd be an asset and if I find myself breaking too much or just needing that unit with the sticking power then I'll have to make room for something somewhere in due time.

The Maneaters are an interesting one, firstly they are so expensive for what they do.  Yes they can be customised for nearly any battlefield role you've got in mind but in small units I think it can go one of three ways, either the enemy focuses on this small expensive unit and deletes it in a turn which isn't really that hard considering they're just Ironguts essentially in terms of toughness and armour.  Secondly they may attempt that but end up crippling it or lastly ignore it all together.  I'm not saying I won't delve into the possibility but for me I feel the cost of MSU units should be somewhat prohibitive in order to be expensive.  Ogre Kingdoms immediately can break the mold of course because of their inflated points costs however I still think their needs to be some sort of bracket to work within.  The Stonehorn is an expensive asset in the current list so I'm keen to see how it performs after a few games and experiment with where the points could be spent elsewhere.  Of course you're the first one to know how much tinkering can go into a list and even more so what fine tuning can land you into Masters contention. 

4. Army specific special rules

Impact hits are great and with the characters provide some much needed first strike capability against enemy units at a higher strength value.  Also the MFC are at S5 and of course the Stonehorn at S6 so their is some variety in the list in terms of strength values.  Once again Maneaters can be tweaked to increase their chances of D3 Impact hits with Swiftstride but that's getting specific and another topic all together I feel.

Even the Ironblaster is worth mentioning here as the chariot adding above average impact hits to combats at a reasonable strength value.

5. Characters as units

It's a shame that the Ogres don't have as much access to flying characters as the majority of armies out there.  With one flying character and another with a 12" mount option (at a skyrocketed price) it's fairly limited in comparison.

On list building I guess on advantage I have is that there isn't a great deal of imitation to go off, there isn't a lot of people having a crack at MSU for the Ogres.  I've got my past experience to pull from and of course more than enough research in terms of MSU for Warhammer as a whole concept but not a great deal for Ogres.  Going to be an interesting journey and I've no doubt regardless of the outcome I'll walk away with a greater understanding of Warhammer and of course the Ogres themselves. 

Thanks for the replies and looking forward to more.

Angryhammer #1

Well just got back from my much anticipated 'real' game with the MSU force and it was a complete disaster.  Perhaps a battle report will follow to address my incompetence and inexperience as a general however the real reason behind this post is more from a play psychological point of view.

There comes a point in the game if I'm losing that I switch off.  That is in my head admit defeat, become less social, get mega angry at myself, my core temperature rises as does my heart rate and I'll generally walk away from the game with a pounding headache.  I'm very confident this isn't normal behaviour and it's horrible to experience for not only myself but because it impacts on the way I am for a number of hours after the experience.  I'm short with my wife and kids, snap easily and Warhammer is certainly the last thing I wish to talk about.  Bloody childish behaviour if you ask me, so why the hell can't I shake it?  Is part of me so ultra competitive that a ounce of loss can't be tolerated?  Perhaps that I've collected miniatures and gamed for 20 odd years that the thought of not being worthy is eating me away.

I'm really contemplating going and seeking professional help to work this problem out because Warhammer after a loss for me only rhymes with eBay and I think that's such a cop out when I'm trying to teach my kids the very lesson I'm failing in at life and that is to lose well.  I suck so badly at losing.  Now sure I can chalk that loss up to a totally new concept and list design but for me I like jumping off the deep end and addressing the core issue.  It wouldn't have mattered what the list was, the army or probably even the game system, if I get smashed in a game I get pissed and that's all that matters.  Oddly enough my wife says it's only happened over the last few years of gaming which is intriguing to me however still doesn't uncover anything.

Time to go and make some chow.

Hi Jimmy,

It is very difficult to take losses with good grace. And I can definitely attribute to the behavior you mentioned. There was a time where I took losses incredibly serious and I spent hours recreating the game in my head, not wanting to talk to anybody about anything.

It is much better now but losing always affects my mood. Not sure how to overcome that. But it is definitely something worthy looking at because there is absolutely no need for you to suffer from it. The challenge lies in finding the source. It is quite interesting because your reasonable side knows it is not positive when you go Hulk mode. You know it is a game, you teach your kids how to lose well. But somehow that reasonable part gets shut down by the anger.

Don't give up, mate, I am sure there is a reason for that and that there is also a good solution that will make you happier player and a person too.

Cheers!

I think perhaps the frustration lies in the fact that I know I could have played 110% better, that I know within myself somehow I could have won that game.

36. 2400 MSU vs Empire - 06/01/15

Link to game is right there.  Lots of lessons to learn from that but I'll look over it at some stage and absorb it and do a write up.

Here is a question to think about. Do you get angry if the dice don't go your way, you make poor choices ingame, or both?

I don't like losing either (no one does), but as I have gotten older I just try and improve my play. If the dice fail me, but I did everything right. Then I am still happy.

It sounds like you beat yourself up too much. If you think it is affecting your family I would consider seeing a therapist.  I am sure they have some ways of helping you find the triggers to why you shut down.

Just poor choices that kill me, I can live with dice betraying me even when the averages defy me.  I think perhaps the MSU concept doesn't loan itself to a play style I like however that's why I'm going to intentionally stick with it.  Perhaps if I bath in losses enough I'll grow resistant to the behaviour! 

I have been thinking about your list and i think Sceptre of Stability is a must when being so magic light

Jimmy; I am loving your solitaryhammer rants, please don't stop them! It's just a shame that I have so much stuff to catch up on, your rantings have made it a pleasure!

G_H

@MG - Problem being then that totally changes the Firebelly's role.

@GH - Many thanks mate as per usual.  I might be up for another butt whipping tonight so might have another angryhammer rant instead to have a go with! 

Game 37 is up gents and it's the re-match from game 36 with no changes in my army

37. 2400 MSU vs Empire - 09/01/15

Solitary Hammer #8

Righto so I've been thinking about the list a great deal and some things strike me as just not working and don't sit right.

Firstly standards, I've got one and that needs to change which means ideally I need to up the size of a unit of Ogres to incorporate this somewhere.  Unsure how I feel about that but it's the first point to begin with.

Secondly magic.  A level 2 just isn't cutting it in my opinion and granted I've got a lot to learn with the Firebelly but I feel his application could be used better.  For instance ditch the rug, give him the usual kit of either ring/scroll or hellheart and all of a sudden I do have some anti magic capability in stock and ready to go.  I think it increases the threat range as well considerably.  Also does the Tyrant do much (outside of the Leadership) that a Slaughtermaster couldn't tooled up in similar fashion?  My opponent raised this point and it's stuck with me, yes it's another 75 points I have to find from somewhere however it also brings some more magic to the table.  I have pause for thought however because I think Maw isn't optimal for MSU, it favours larger blocks of fat boys and that would mean in order to unlock this it means ditching the firebelly in order to get a butcher instead and unlock another lore.  Lots to think about.

Thirdly Hunter.  As much as I love the concept, it's a great model I just don't think it brings enough to the list.  I might get some disagreement here but he's very expensive for what he brings and unfortunately his value could be swapped out for a number of different things that I feel could bring some more flexibility to the list.

What is currently underwhelming for me in this list is magic and core.  As much as I don't think the 3 Ogre units are working I personally feel if they're ran in any other way then it goes against the core roots of the MSU principle and dwells into more MMU which seems to be far more optimal for the Ogres.  Not giving in just yet however. 

Game 37 certainly displayed a few things, how I don't know how to use MFC well (could be argued at all!), Ogres have some staying power when they roll averagely and deployment is still an issue.  Stonehorn should have stayed central to affect more of the charges as it's 250 points that has done bugger all in both games in my opinion.

I feel perhaps there might be some list changes coming up but need to come number crunching in terms of points etc.

Lots to think about and no doubt more random musings to come later.

Greetings!

As you can see Jimmy is a very prolific forum member and he regularly adds to his blog as well as to his battle reports. It is tough to catch up with him but I am not going to give up! Hopefully, you will also enjoy the rumblings on MSU that is created as a result

So, back to Solitary Hammer #2

I think there are two themes to Jimmy's post number 2.

1. Simulations
2. Change of mentality/approach

Jimmy started playing against himself probably because sometimes it is hard to get the opponent and theory hammering can get you only that far. While playing whole battle is still time consuming I have found out sometimes it is a good idea to see what might happen in "ideal" situations. For example, you know you are going to face some regiment in your enemy army. Say, you want to see what happens if you charge it with 2 units of yours from 2 flanks. If you have models, put them on the table like that too! Or use UB website and play with it. Then roll some dice. While it is not going to give you any average outcome you can easily tell if the dice were lucky or unlucky (or you can simply repeat the situation) and what is the result.

Why is it worthy doing so? Because you can visualize how to tackle particular threat and try to achieve it in real game. It is as if you were to compare the same battle, once played for the first time and once one you already have some experience as how to deal with the foe. You will have some plan already and you will focus on making it work rather than being perplexed and confused how to deal with new threat.

Some people told me it does not make sense as good player will not let me attack his units like that. Well, maybe but there is no harm in trying and knowing what ideal situation is. And by searching for solutions you will achieve much more than just assuming something cannot be done.

That leads to part 2, changing attitude. Jimmy mentioned that he stopped thinking about his units in terms of regular army, where they were organized in such a way that they could charge from the front and win grind match. With MSU you look for advantages elsewhere. You have to because your units, at least in general, are meant to work together. It is a team and it requires team work. You can still and will use some units individually. But more often than not you will move them as packs rather than single regiments.

It actually does not require any particular new skill, you still are checking for angles and distances. The difference is that you also do it for your own units. So, if you expose a unit as a bait, you will check where it might flee. Or, if it is going to absorb the charge and hold, how to angle it so you can counter charge into enemy's flank, etc.

It may seem overwhelming at the beginning as you would need to factor more variables into your plans but trust me, it actually makes the games much more interesting and enjoyable, both for you and your opponent.

Cheers!

I got to say i love following this conversation between you two. When trying to write my own Gutstar/MSU Hybrid list some of the stuff is really eye opening. Keep up the great work and dont get to discouraged Jimmy it is about the journey not the destination. The destination is the prize for walking the journey

I have often found myself having practice games with me playing both armies.
I actually find it quite interstesting as I will devise a plan from one side of the board, then find a way out of it from the other which I previously didn't see.
This has really helped me plan how to use an army and how an opponent might react.

On changes to the army list...
I posted some ideas on your last game but you have fleshed your thoughts out more here.
I'd suggest keeping both the Hunter and Flyerbelly. I think they are great mobile assests for the MSU approach.
I would suggest trying units of 2x 4 Ironguts instead of 3x3 Ogres. This is still very much MSU but with more hitting and staying power.
The flyerbelly shouldn't be your main caster, I think leave him at level 1. replacing the Tyrant with a Slaughtermaser is probably the right approach. You could bunker him in a larger block of Ogres alongside the BSB who would then need the Standard of Discipline. These guys would be more about providing static combat res to aid the smaller power units as required.

I haven't worked out the points for this, but a rough outline might be.
SM
BSB
Flyerbelly
Hunter
9 Ogres
2x4 IG
2x2 MF
3 Sabres
Ironblaster

Hi guys!

I am concerned with the pace Jimmy is posting his reports and blog updates. It is really hard to catch up with him! I think the best course of action is to overwhelm him with comments so he is going to be encouraged to reply to them rather than to create more Solitary Hammer entries!

Joking of course, it is really nice to see his ideas written down and I simply want to tell you it is great for a prolific forum member like Jimmy to get some feedback. Think about it, he spends significant amount of time preparing all these contributions. It would be rude to leave them not addressed! What is more, I am sure many of you have some great thoughts that can be incorporated into this very topic.

I have just refreshed my memory about Solitary Hammer #3 and for me it actually talks about Characters. Jimmy discussed options for Hunter and Tyrant but I am going to talk about them in a more general view.

I have to tell you that MSU concept also evolved in time and with new army books releases. At the beginning there was a notion to include just two characters. The general (usually level 4) and BSB. The spell casting general was flexible choice because he was both a leader and a wizard. It was a little risky, as such characters are fragile and if killed, you lose significant amount of points and your only mage. On the other hand, that left you with more points for units. The same goes with BSB (in my opinion more important model than the general) and his re-rolls are simply priceless. Unlike wizard-general he can be simply equipped to survive and keep waving his flag. It is possible to add some equipment for him so he can also preform other roles.

From my own perspective that kind of changed and I also started adding more heroes. The reason for that is actually the same reason why you want to use above two characters anyway. They add to the army where the units cannot. Only a general can improve morale, only BSB allows re-rolls. For many armies only wizards can cast spells and casting units are an exception than the rule. 

Because of that you have to think what kind of unique role a character is going to have in your force. You can even treat your lord/hero as an equivalent of a unit as some of them are going to operate alone anyway. In fact, one of the advantages of having characters is that they can join the unit but at the same time can move solo when required. That adds to your toolbox and can surprise the enemy too.

The cost of character is usually the same as of a unit of some kind so you have to make a conscious decision about it. More characters often means less deployment drops so that one of the advantages of MSU force is weakened here.

Another aspect of having characters is their potential for flexibility and multi-tasking. I have already mentioned wizard-general. I used BSB with Reaver Bow that also increased the flexibility of that hero. Because I had only two characters, making them as flexible as possible seemed like a good idea.

However, not all the lords or heroes can do that. It may be more beneficial then, to pick one task for them to perform and equip them accordingly.

There is no right or wrong here, simply you and your vision of how your heroes can add character to your army

Cheers!

Firstly thanks gents for all the traffic.  Somewhat inspiring in comparison to the last site I use to do this at! 

@MG - You're absolutely correct, I think I'm focussing far too much on the destination, I must keep the journey in mind.   

@Steve - I do plan on addressing all of your comments in time but please know everything you are posting is a credit to my battles and gnoblog.  Excellent advice and I don't directly address anything it probably just means I'm still absorbing it.

On the Ironguts, I've certainly been thinking about them and there is no shortage of heavily armoured targets in warhammer these days getting about.

As posted elsewhere I also like the Hunter although I just feel he's too expensive for what he brings to the table which could also be me saying I can't justify my skill level in using him properly.  I'm sure I'll come back to the idea however with the list change I'm running now it tends to be using things I can somewhat use confidently.

I think you're right about the Firebelly though, level 2 is a little pointless I feel.

@SM - Thanks for the comments as per usual. 

You've raised a point I wish to highlight and that's the cost associated with characters in comparison to units.  It goes without saying that Ogres are on the pricey side and I'll lay the argument back to the Hunter.  It's such a specialised role this unit is filling but if he's dropped then it allows for an inclusion of another min core unit.  Combined with the fact the Hunter can't join a standard unit and it limits his surprise factor a little.

I am still not convinced I've worked out an optimal load out for the Hunter or even a solid game plan for him but hey with 3 games of MSU under my belt and 2 including the Hunter I'm really not surprised.

A question for the Swordmaster, with just shy of 150 documented battles yourself dating back from 2009 when did all of your study and hard work finally 'click' in your journey?  I know that's a bit of an open ended question due to army releases, rules changes, meta changes, etc but is there any type of answer?

Speaking of games I managed to get my third MSU game up yesterday:

38. 2400 MSU Dual Tyrant vs Undead Legion - 12/01/15

Hi Jimmy,

That is a good question. I think I would answer it in the following manner. When I started to adapt my army for 8th edition I gravitated towards cavalry prince build. It was natural to me then that when I found out about Seredain's fantastic blog I wanted to try his concept and I blatantly imitated what he did. I had some very interesting battles but as I was learning 8th edition in the process, and often stumbled and fumbled, I also noticed I really feel like I don't have enough units and have too many characters.

And right before CanCon, when I had some time to practice (and only a couple of months after I arrived to Australia) I learned about MSU. Well, I knew about this concept from 6th edition but it was reinstated by SmithF over warhammer.org.uk. I asked him about his idea for HE MSU, confronted that with the models I had available and tested it. I think I was lucky to actually win my first 6 games but something amazing happened anyway. These previous defeats with cavalry prince where I lacked regiments already prepared me to fill the gaps as soon as I had enough units.

It is not to say I already knew how to play. For example, I won only 3 games out of 8 at CanCon and some of them were crushing defeats (19:1 to Ogres btw! ). But in each game I found out I had a plan and in each game I could identify the mistakes that led to the defeat.

Hence I believe that first 20 games with cavalry prince and then 14 games with MSU (prep to and games at CanCon) where needed for me to gain enough experience with new rules for 8th edition and learn the concept of not only MSU but mainly units cooperation.

After CanCon I was sure it is the style for me and that with practice I can get better. Back then I didn't even think where that might take me, I simply was interested in testing this army against as many opponents as possible.

When I had around 30+ with MSU army alone I was able to compile all my observations in a pretty long article but I think that was a milestone you were asking about.

Cheers!

@SM - 30 games hey?  I've got a ways to go then!   

39. 2400 MSU Dual Tyrant vs Glotkin - 17/01/15

A fun conflict up between my brother and I.  I wasn't going to bother reporting on it but I had a bit of time.

Not sure what else to say right now.

Well, it may also mean I don't learn as fast as I thought

I hope not as I'd consider myself a slower learner than you being a Dr and all.    Maybe I'd better show cause for my MSU journey at 60 games then! 

Hi Jimmy,

I think the main conclusion is to focus on the journey and things you like to include in the army. I have learned people are generally better with units/characters they enjoy fielding. I don't think there necessary must be that single moment when things finally click. The armies, by nature, need to evolve and change. The changes might be steady but small each time they happen or can be more dramatic.

As long as you enjoy your hobby, ideas will come flowing and that is the most important thing.

Cheers!

I think nearly the whole warhammer is in 'stasis' until there is some solid info in regards to the future of our hobby.

Well, that is another story and there is not much we can do about it.

That is unless you like other gaming systems. 

Solitary Hammer #8

Well back to it and although I can nearly guarantee this won't be a very exciting episode it's something that has been floating around the grey matter for a while so why not address it.

Last year (2014) I made a conscious decision to not participate in any local tournaments as in 2013 I found my lists gravitating towards very competitive builds all the time even in games of garagehammer with my brother and it wasn't something I liked.  In 2013 I didn't go too badly on the tournament scene focusing solely on Tomb Kings (competitive builds I hear you say...!) and was ranked as the top player with that army for a period of time which I was well chuffed with as you could imagine.

Fast forward to 2015 and here I am ready to throw down in local tournaments but unfortunately I don't think it's going to be that easy.  On a personal level the job front has really been letting me down so without continuity in the finance department it makes it a little difficult for me to attend anything which I have mixed feelings about.  On one hand I'm disappointed that I can't make it (yet) and feel like I'm not contributing to the local scene and I also feel it's a fragile time for Warhammer at the moment and perhaps it will have an impact on future events.  The other side of me is that there is 'always' another tournament to attend.

Speaking of tournaments, Cancon is one of Australia's premiere events and even though I've never attended it was great to hear from a few people that did.  I think the player count was around the 120 mark so that gives you a good indication of the tournament scene there but also there would be such a diversity of players amongst the ranks.  Interestingly enough 3rd place went to a leadbelcher heavy Ogre Kingdoms list.  I've yet to get the full details however it went something along the lines of this:

L3 Slaughtermaster(Heavens) - book of ashur
BSB Bruiser - IronFist, Banner of discipline
L1 Butcher (Maw) -  Scroll of Shielding
2 x Hunter - Harpoon Launcher
3 Ironguts(129) Musician + Banner(20) Gleaming pendant(5)-154[4]
3 x 3 Ironguts - Musician + Banner
2 x 5 Leadbelchers - Musician
6 Leadbelchers - Musician
1 Sabertusk
1 Sabertusk
Ironblaster

A very bold and interesting list.  This does a few things for me.  Firstly re-instates my faith in Warhammer and as an army I play Ogres.  Secondly and this isn't a good thing I get a real copy cat urge to play the list immediately and see if I can get it to work which isn't good for me considering I normally spend so much time analysing a list I want to play with and put in a lot of homework before a dice is even rolled, play a few games and then normally something else comes along.  I made the 'MSU' commitment and intend to stick it out.  Thirdly I'm intrigued to see the full list and also comprehend how the list weighs up against the meta and the comp or swedish score that was there.

Even though doom and gloom paints the horizon of 2015 I can't help but feel there is a glimmer of light breaking through and that's what we need to focus on.  Granted I'm sitting here painting 40k models at the moment but that's for a number of reasons.  Yes I'm out of Ogres to paint and I'm just trying to paint everything I have before moving onto the next project and there isn't much left I can assure you.

The last two games I settled into a Dual Tyrant list which has been a lot of fun.  Having two hitty characters running about providing their strong arms to units is great and I've opted to run the cheaper core choices with two leadership 9 characters heading the charges of each unit so in that way they're capable enough.  with only two games in I haven't yet missed core S6 attacks as between the Tyrants and BSB I have 13 S7 attacks on demand which is nearly a unit of guts anyway.  It's a faster list with 3 units of MFC able to dart around and cause trouble and of course a tiny unit of Leadbelchers in order to trim down enemy fast cav.  Still not 100% on the magic side of things however I'm running a single Firebelly just with a scroll this time but am considering the Hellheart at some stage for some teeth.  Usual suspects are there with an Ironblaster and Sabretusks.

Tyrant - General, GW, HA, Trickster's Helm, Talisman of Preservation
Tyrant - GW, Glittering Scales, Talisman of Endurance, Ironcurse Icon
Bruiser - BSB, Armour of Destiny, GW
Firebelly - Dispel Scroll
6 Ogres - FC, IF
4 Ogres - Std, Mus, IF
2 x 3 Ogres - XHW, Mus
4 Leadbelchers - Mus
3 x 2 Mournfang Cav - IF, HA, Mus
2 x 1 Sabretusk
Ironblaster

Few more games to play with the list before I want to change anything but I can see a single unit of Ironguts being of benefit.

Thanks for reading as per usual.

Good to see you stick to your guns and not sway from temptation.

I do think you can learn/steal some things from the Cancon list but there are some things i see in it that can stream line it about
1. Book of Ashur...+1 to cast and dispel can be achieved for half the points by upgrading to level 4
2. Scroll of Shielding feels a bit gimmicky to me and i would always prefer a dispel scroll
3. I would prefer the 3x2 Mournfang like you run over the 3 units of leadbelches

Just my 2cents

Whilst I certainly agree about some of your points I'd still like to know if this is his normal list or at least an evolution of the players normal list.  Remember that Swedish Comp could have a lot to do with the less than sub par choices we see such as the no level 4 upgrade type of thing.

Yep Comp will certainly have something to do about it

I also got to say i love his BSB build and feel it is something that could work in your list to stop you going for the ironguts

Hey Jimmy, I've just been flipping back through the last couple of pages of your blog. One bit which caught my eye was the talk on list variation from a while ago.

It's a common situation where people get stuck in a bit of rut with army selections. I think a lot of this boils down to the time and effort that goes into an army. I'm in the process of building my ogres up, and I was really hoping to grow my forces to the point where I have several thousand points so I can build lists with complete freedom. Of course, this takes time. Most people (and this is my current stage) have a finite model collection, and start out aiming for a "solid" base of troops, often with a target list in mind.

Personally, I've worked towards a 2.4 list which has a TT, a less typical choice for ogres. However, I really haven't experimented much. I would like to try maneaters, gorgers and all kinds of things, but when I don't have the models, and I do have other things painted and ready to go, I find they go in my list just because they are done!

When people progress to the stage where that list is finished, often their interest is taken by another army, as boredom with the same list sets in, and the cycle repeats. I've really loved Ogres and the army have clicked for me in a way Dark Elves never did. I'd love to get my army to a point where I pick and choose from a wide model range to build fun and inventive lists. It looks like 9th may be a spanner in the works for that plan, but I remain optimistic.

In short, I agree with you about trying to vary things, and equally see where the issues with repetitive lists can start from. I'm in danger of falling into that trap myself! I'm currently hunting down new opponents and new armies to play against to keep things fresh.

This blog has been a really good read, thanks for all the thought provoking chatter!

Hey RG, thank you so much for your kind words.  It's nice to know and I say it repeatedly that people are looking over the blog and taking bits and pieces from it.  If some of it inspires or rather just gives pause for thought to look at things from another angle then that's brilliant and exactly what I'm after.

On army selections that's a very interesting subject.  There are several gaming personalities and I think a common one is like you've outlined is to collect everything in an army so you can effectively field the majority of the options available.  Another would be to say collect a set 2400 point list and not deviate it from it but I could nearly guarantee by the time someone has collected said 2400 point force the meta has changed, new books have arrived or perhaps even new models and would sway the opinion of the collector and what they 'need'.  A classic example of this is me and my High Elves, I've got 8000+ points and added two Flamespyre Phoenix to the mix, granted they're nowhere near as potent as the icy version but from a pure aesthetics point of view I think the flame version trumps the ice any day and for that reason I've wanted a third to be able to field 3 in an army but for whatever reason it's never happened.

I also wish to address this point:

When people progress to the stage where that list is finished, often their interest is taken by another army, as boredom with the same list sets in

Interestingly enough when I 'finished' (can an army ever truly be finished I argue??    ) my Tomb Kings and was playing with them for roughly two years I made the switch to the Ogres.  However this wasn't out of boredom but more out of frustration for not using the Ogres in that time.  I've often said there is so many different things I still wish to try with the Tomb Kings or more importantly Undead Legion nowadays but out of doing my service to the Ogre Stronghold I still feel very obligated to run the Ogres for a period of time.  After actually sitting down and reading End Times Nagash I felt less than inspired to actually run Undead Legion purely because of the background written so I'm quietly waiting for Settra to come back and whip some.  End Times Khaine did even less for me and I don't think I'd lose any sleep if I sold all my High Elves which is a shame (I'd keep the Phoenix however...) to say after the years of work that has gone into them.

To round this post off well done for trying the things out of the norm.  The Thundertusk and Gorgers for example always seem to be pushed out of lists for more competitive options (even I'm guilty of it) or more points to pour into other areas.  It could and will be argued that there is better choices but at the same time both units bring something to the table that other units can't.

Currently I've got another game pencilled in for this evening which I'm looking forward to running the MSU list above again.  Hopefully the next post will be titled something like 'happy hammer'. 

Been doing some painting.

Game 40 is now up with the Dual Tyrants facing off against a Rune fang wielding maniac of the Empire.

40. 2400 MSU Dual Tyrant vs Empire - 30/01/15

Enjoy. 

Game 41 is up people continuing along the Dual Tyrant route which is still quite a bit of fun.

41. 2400 MSU Dual Tyrant vs Daemons - 08/02/15

Hey all

Just a bit of a general whinge and bitch today about the general state of warhammer which roughly equates to how crap the end times is on the current storyline and what it means for some armies.

When Nagash first hit the scene I was pretty happy from a rules point of view as they fixed up the Tomb Kings into Undead Legion.  It wasn't until December however when I actually read the book and the Tomb Kings were depicted with more suckage than a new born baby I was left feeling betrayed and disappointed.  Jump to Ogres I thought as they haven't been hit with the End Times stick as yet and I was confident it would be a few months off yet.  Here we are and the rumours are coming out in February and we've got Orcs ruling us.  Damn they've buggered up (in my view) all my warhammer armies!  Firstly from a fictional point of view yes they remain mostly the same however for me I'm about the whole package and feel robbed playing Tomb Kings and High Elves in their current ways.  Enter Greenskins which as a single entity I do not mind in the slightest however cramming them with Ogres just doesn't interest me at all.  Ironically enough I am currently painting an Orc Warboss but in my ragtag defence I started him last week before rumours became dinner conversation.

Edit - Sadly just finished.



1 Orc Boss done.

Hi Jimmy,

The news about last installment of ET are indeed in the spirit of the entire campaign. A lot of changes for everyone. I came to the conclusion that part of the reason it is hard to accept is that these changes are presented so quickly. Before you have time to absorb what happened new book comes out and even more dramatic things take place.

Having said that I believe I understand that it may look like doom and gloom. Somehow your chosen armies got a lot of attention but not in the way you are happy with. TK reduced to nothing (fluff wise), Elves losing their homeland, and who knows what exactly happens to Ogres (apart from the fact they seem to be incorporated to O&G).

I admit I also have a hard time accepting what I have read so far in ET books. However, I decided that I will wait and read all of them first so that I have a full picture. Then I will wait until the news about the future of warhammer are revealed. Until then, even if it is few months, I am going to enjoy 8th edition as it is. In that way I will hopefully paint what I wanted to paint, play the game I enjoy and who knows, maybe the future will turn out to be totally different (and better!) than what may seem right now.

Cheers!

As usual SM, good info.  I just showed my brother the new Bloodthirster options, they're interesting.  Needless to say the Daemon player was rubbing his hands together.  Going to have to figure out how to keep the Ogres in the game versus one of them now! 

Orc Banner Waiver done.

Loving the dwarf on the banner, only just noticed it

Just jumped on your MSU train utilizing Skrag. I put a draft army list up in Armies of the Kingdoms and would really appreciate your view