2400pt Theoryhammering - No Hold Bar

So after a while and bringing it back up to LawGnome, i thought i would update on where this list is currently

LORD - Slaughtermaster: 380 Points
Level 4 Heaven, Fencers blades, Glittering scales, Talisman of Endurance, Ironcurse Icon

HERO - Bruiser: 190 Points
BSB, Great weapon, Heavy armour, Crown of Command, Dragonhelm

HERO - Butcher: 125 Points
Level 1 LotGM, Dispel Scroll,

CORE - 9 Ironguts: 437 Points
Full command; Standard of Discipline,  Look out Gnoblar

CORE - 3 Ogres: 93 Points
Additional hand weapons,

CORE - 10 Gnoblars: 35 Points
Standard bearer
CORE - 10 Gnoblars: 35 Points
Standard bearer

SPECIAL - 6 Maneaters: 421 Points
Bellower, Standard, Gleaming Pennant, Scout, Poisoned attacks
6x Brace of Pistols, Heavy Armour

SPECIAL - 2 Mournfang Cavalry: 140 Points
Heavy armour, Ironfists
SPECIAL - 2 Mournfang Cavalry: 140 Points
Heavy armour, Ironfists

SPECIAL - Sabretusk: 21 Points
SPECIAL - Sabretusk: 21 Points
SPECIAL - Sabretusk: 21 Points

RARE - Ironblaster: 170 Points
RARE - Ironblaster: 170 Points

2398/2400points

A majority of advice has been taken on apart from running Gruts sickle on my SM. For two reasons, i like the SM being able to kick butt in close combat and because i dont like the risk of Gruts

Another idea to consider:  Drop the greatweapon from the Butcher to give the BSB the dragonhelm.  Your BSB will be a very high priority target for your opponent (especially carrying the CoC).  Adding an extra pip of armor and a 2++ against fire greatly boosts his survivability.  It also gives you ways to deal with any unit that has flaming attacks (hello flaming banner, hexwraiths, k'daii, flame pheonix, etc).  This is far more valuable than the potential for slightly increased close combat damage on your Butcher (who will have 3 attacks as WS3).

-Snark

@Snarkhunter: Good shout, updated list now with that exact suggestion

Perhaps musicians on those mournfang darts would be good, can use them to flee reliably then.

I was just thinking of a couple of alternatives to the Gnoblar blocks and what I came up with was the following:

First idea was take just 10 with trappers, this would give 20 points spare so you could add x2 Flaming banners to the Mournfang, now letting them deal with units that have Regen or are ethereal.

The other thing I was considering is if you removed both blocks and replace them with 1 Sabertusk, you have 50 points left and that lets you get the Butcher level 2 Wizard and then Flaming Banner + Champion / Banner of Discipline.

I was just thinking of a couple of alternatives to the Gnoblar blocks and what I came up with was the following:

First idea was take just 10 with trappers, this would give 20 points spare so you could add x2 Flaming banners to the Mournfang, now letting them deal with units that have Regen or are ethereal.

The other thing I was considering is if you removed both blocks and replace them with 1 Sabertusk, you have 50 points left and that lets you get the Butcher level 2 Wizard and then Flaming Banner + Champion / Banner of Discipline.

Thank you for replying. Unfortunately there is a lot of holes in your suggestions and i get the impression it is because you are still relatively new to the game. In no particular order here are the problems

1. By shaving any points in core you automatically go below min 25% core
2. Can never have the same magic item twice in your list so no double banner of the eternal flame
3. Can only have 3 duplicate special choices

On another note, i find there is very little need for a level 2 upgrade on butcher tax because it says it in the name 'tax'. No one likes paying more tax than they have too

Ah I didn't look at your core point total and I feel silly for forgetting the no magical dupes.

Also I didn't know about the duplicate Specials rule, thanks for that.

Seems I need to take the Stupid special rule for myself :L


Then looking again at your Maneaters, I wanted to ask why you take Scout and Gleaming Gem over going Stubborn and Flaming banner (I know it costs 5 points more total but still I'm curious).
I feel that going Stubborn and Flaming could be really good to add staying power to the unit.
I'm pretty adamant that you take a Flaming banner on one of your drops, since it is really vital to be able to hit regen / ethereal.

Then looking again at your Maneaters, I wanted to ask why you take Scout and Gleaming Gem over going Stubborn and Flaming banner (I know it costs 5 points more total but still I'm curious).
I feel that going Stubborn and Flaming could be really good to add staying power to the unit.
I'm pretty adamant that you take a Flaming banner on one of your drops, since it is really vital to be able to hit regen / ethereal.

I think an earlier post by Spencer answers a lot of your question (See below). As a scout unit they will not be in the leadership or BSB bubble and therefore Gleaming pennant is safer. Flaming banner unit would work better as a mainline unit which my unit is not.
As for flaming it is a double edge sword. I already can deal with ethereal thanks to having a shooting/ranged lore on my slaughtermaster. Regeneration, it is nice to be able to strip it and a firebelly is best at this but it does not stop me hitting it like ethereal

In regard to your list I would go with a 5-6 strong maneaters scouts unit. I have use them several times with pretty much succes. I think they are worth a try and could compensate your weaknesses.

You were asking what things are hard to manage for your list. In my opinion:

- many flyings characters/Units/Monsters: because of their mobility they could charge & kill your iron blasters on turn 2 and be out of the front arc of your death mage quite easily. You'll see death spells are not so easy to cast because of the range & front arc.

- very mobile army: for the same reasons.

- many warmachines and good protected characters: a solid dwarf gunline list could be a problem because he will target your IB first with his canons and target your only big IG unit with his organ gun. It will take you 2-3 turns to be in combat and if you're not strong/big enough at this time you won't beat the tipical long beards + strong characters unit.

As you see a scouting maneaters unit could be an interesting idea:
1. They stop vanguarding troups = Limit opponent's mobility
2. They are an immediate treat with a lot of attaks = your ennemy need to deal with them at the turn 1!
3. They can be put at the right place from the beginning = take advantage from ennemy's deployment
4. They can correct one of your mistakes in the deployment