2400 MSU OK vs Daemons of Chaos

I had a game scheduled against my casual gaming friend Tim.  Keep in mind I painted his army and gifted him with the FW Bloodthirster last year for his birthday fully painted so when I ask him for a game he probably feels somewhat obligated to carry the torch which totally works for me. 

This will be a tough challenge for the MSU Ogres, with solid combat blocks, some speed on the Daemons side and much to my dismay shooting ability which trumps mine.  On top of that a massive flying unit killer and then of course add in the reign of chaos table and you've got a non magic army that still can potentially kill my models in the magic phase, sounds fair right?

From the top:

Bloodthirster - The invite to my friend went something like this:  "Are you keen to come over and kill some Ogres with that Bloodthirster model?" and that was enough.  He was sold.  The key for me to slot this chum is to ensure he doesn't get into combat at full strength.  If I can chip a few wounds off him before he hits my lines it will make my job so much easier but also ensure he has to be more careful in terms of picking what units to engage.  Tim in the past has been hesistant to pull the trigger with the Bloodthirster often jumping in either too early or too late.  For me hopefully I can get the charge which is a huge ask considering it's against a flyer but I'm confident it can be done.  With some well timed S7 impact hits and a Tyrant going choppy choppy (perhaps even solo if he's sporting the Axe of Khorne...) I may be able to take the Greater Daemon of Khorne out.  That's the best case scenario.  Worst case is he get's out of some thin layered containment I've created for him and zooms around decimating a unit every turn.

Heralds - On their own they're not that big of a deal but the buff's they'll be sticking on units will ensure they hurt.  They aren't the priority until the big guy is dealt with.

Bloodletters - I have some elements to feed these guys to keep them busy and without re-directors of his own outside of shooting Sabretusks with Skullcannons he's going to be hard pressed to deal with me leading them around the battlefield.  When it comes to taking them out I'll be looking for the charge from several elements and hit them hard as I don't want to create an opportunity where I'll be pinned in place allowing some backup to come in and tip the scales.  Mournfang will the ideal unit here with their speed to close the distance and armour to protect them.  It will however take 2+ units of them to get the job done.  Ogres can do it as well but it will cost more in wounds.

Flesh Hounds - These chaps are a tricky one.  They're fast and can hit my Ogres like a tonne of falling debris from a tropical cyclone and when combined with other charges they'll be a nightmare to deal with.  From a shooting point of view the Leadbelchers will be able to thin them by a few bodies before they hit combat.  As far as that goes I'll be looking to 'feed & fight', that is feed them some Sabretusk and get them into a desirable position for me and then clean them up.  Unfortunately it feels like I need my Mournfang in several places at once to contain them however with a flank charge from the Ogres I'm sure I can destroy them as well.

Skullcannons - My bane, seriously how does Khorne have shooting units?  Now my rants over let's take a closer look.  I've fallen into the trap as have many other players in terms of using units like these (Ironblasters) as artillery pieces rather than chariots with a cannon on top of them, with this in mind I think they'll be left in the back field with little defence.  This means I could be facing upwards of 12 shots over the course of the game if left to their own devices.  Clearly I'm going to do everything in my power to prevent this from happening and I know I'll be hiding my Ironblaster behind a wall of Ogres to give it some sort of protection from what can be described as target number 1.  It's worth mentioning here that the Firebelly could wander out to catch a cannonball with a 50% chance eating it but I can't see a scenario where that would happen, wait and see I think.

With 8 drops vs the Ogres 12 I'd be pressing the initiative right from the deployment phase to establish control and enforce my will upon the Daemons. 


Ogre Kingdoms vs. Daemons of Khorne
===================================

Overview
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Date played: Sunday, 8 February 2015

Ogre Kingdoms
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  (T1) Tyrant
      - Heavy Armour, Great Weapon, Trickster's Helm, Talisman of Preservation
  (T2) Tyrant
      - Great Weapon, Glittering Scales, Talisman of Endurance, Ironcurse Icon
  (B) Bruiser
      - BSB, Heavy Armour, Great Weapon, Armour of Destiny
  (F) Firebelly
      - Dispel Scroll, Lore of Fire
  (O1) 7 Ogres
      - Full Command, Ironfists
  (O2) 4 Ogres
      - Ironfists, Musician, Standard
  (O3) 3 Ogres
      - Extra Hand Weapons, Musician
  (O4) 3 Ogres
      - Extra Hand Weapons, Musician
  (S1) Sabretusk
  (S2) Sabretusk
  (MC1) 2 Mournfang Cavalry
      - Ironfist, Heavy Armour, Musician
  (MC2) 2 Mournfang Cavalry
      - Ironfist, Heavy Armour, Musician
  (MC3) 2 Mournfang Cavalry
      - Ironfist, Heavy Armour, Musician
  (I) Ironblaster
  (L) 4 Leadbelchers
      - Musician      

Daemons of Khorne
-----------------
  (B1) Bloodthirster
      - Axe of Khorne
  (HoK1) Herald of Khorne
      - Juggernaut, Battle Standard Bearer, D3 Impact Hits
  (HoK2) Herald of Khorne
      - Locus of Fury, ASF   
  (B2) 15 Bloodletters
      - Full Command      
  (B3) 30 Bloodletters
      - Full Command, Banner of Swiftness
  (FH1) 5 Flesh Hounds
  (FH2) 5 Flesh Hounds
  (S1) Skullcannon
  (S2) Skullcannon
  (B4) 4 Bloodcrushers
      - Full Command      

Deployment
----------
 

I won the deployment and dropped the Sabretusks and Ogres (3 man units) which was countered with Flesh Hounds.    Once the Skullcannons were down I wanted to stack the right flank so I had some cover from the other cannon with the building.  The Sabretusk had an excellent opportunity to zoom up the flank and cause some trouble if needed and hopefully the Ogres and Sabretusk on the right flank could cause enough trouble to prevent them from assisting the main engagement.




Daemons get the +1 and go first.

Turn 1 - Daemons of Khorne
--------------------------
 

Some movement and not much else.  Reign of Chaos brings up some favours from Slaanesh to me killing 3 Flesh Hounds across the board - great start!  The Skullcannons all target the Ironblaster, the first one fails to bounce whilst the second takes a mighty 4 wounds from it.

Turn 1 - Ogre Kingdoms
----------------------
 

Sabretusks zoom up the flanks to do what they do best.  I needed to get the Bloodthirster out of his hidey hole somehow so put a master plan into action to nail the horde of Bloodletters.  If he decided to charge the Mournfang or anything it would leave him in a pretty horrid position to cop counter charges.  The Ironblaster hugs the Ogres so at least a flank shot would give it 3 chances of a 6+ from the Ironcurse before it hit it, that was as good as the odds were going to get.  During the magic phase I manage a 3 wound fireball onto the Skullcannon but Tim doesn't like this and wards them all.  Ironblaster in typical fashion misfires and I lose the ability to shoot next turn, another 170 points of epic failure as it would be well and truly dead by then.



Turn 2 - Daemons of Khorne
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Tim's fatal error - he positions the Flesh Hounds hoping for either the MFC or Ogres (O3) to charge them.  Bloodthirster gets into a counter charging position ready to go.  Reign of Chaos hits the Daemons with a -1 to ward saves.  The Skullcannon hits the flank of the Ogres as anticipated but a 1 to wound doesn't even warm up the Ironcurse Icon.  Slaanesh must also share my distaste for Khorne having shooting weapons and a 1 to wound comes up again against the Ironblaster.\



Turn 2 - Ogre Kingdoms
----------------------
 

The Ogres and Sabretusk charge the Bloodcrushers to pin them in place whilst the MFC charge into the depleted Flesh Hounds.  On the right flank the MF charge into the Bloodletters whilst the larger Ogre unit charge into the flank of the Flesh Hounds hoping for an over run to assist the Mournfang.  The Firebelly gets an irresitable fireball netting a single wound and doing 5 wounds to the Ogres.  In combat the Tyrant and Herald go at it however none can better the other until the massive weight of the Tyrant stomps the Herald for a single wound.  The Bloodletters cut back into a MFC however before the incoming damage leaves 15 Bloodletters remaining.  On the opposite flank the Sabretusk is toast and only a single Bloodcrusher is cut down and the Daemons hold steady.



Turn 3 - Daemons of Khorne
--------------------------
 

The Bloodthirster needs no enticing and smacks into the flank of the Ogres whilst the Bloodletters hit the exposed Mournfang.  Reign of Chaos is quiet however this time with accurate fire the Ironblaster splinters across the battlefield in an epic vision of deja vu that so many other Ogre general's have felt millions of times over.  Bloodcrushers take another wound killing another one (think I failed to fix this on map) and kill an Ogre.  Its enough to break the will of the Ogres and the remaining musician flees as the MF is cut down by the pursuing Bloodcrushers as the Bloodletters reform.

In the continuing challenge neither side gains the upper hand and the Bloodthirster minces a single Ogre with his charge.  The Ogres retaliate and after the dust settles only the Herald and his champion remain.  The Ogres reform to face the Bloodthirster.



Turn 3 - Ogre Kingdoms
----------------------
 

The MF charge into the flank of the Bloodthirster intent on doing some much needed damage on the Greater Daemon whilst the lone MF charges into the exposed Skullcannon.  The Ogres plan on joining the Bloodthirster combat but 2" just isn't enough to carry their massive high calorie frames into battle in this instance.  The Firebelly powers up again doing 2 wounds to the oncoming Bloodletters and the Leadbelchers match the damage.  The Skullcannon fractures on impact from the Mournfang allowing them to reform.  The Tyrant cops 2 wounds before smashing apart the Herald as the Bloodthirster cleaves apart a single Mournfang as he takes 2 cuts (wounds) to the knees and the combat holds.



Turn 4 - Daemons of Khorne
--------------------------
 

The Bloodletters rush to their master's aid charging into the rear of the Mournfang.  The Bloodcrushers run down the lone Ogre.  The Skullcannon hits the building and takes out all the Ogres.  In combat the Bloodthirster batters the Tyrant with 6 wounds however the Talisman of Endurance goes above and beyond reducing the damage to just 2 wounds leaving a very unhealthy looking Tyrant.  The Ogres swing their weapons and cut the Bloodthirster out of his fabric of existence after the poor Mournfang is picked apart by the Bloodletters.



Turn 4 - Ogre Kingdoms
----------------------
 

The Ogres turn their attention to the Bloodletters and charge into the combat whilst the general doesn't want to sit this one out runs into combat as well.  The firebelly powers up again an IF fireball dumping 2 wounds onto the Skullcannon and the Leadbelchers put a single wound onto the machine.  Bloodletters and rolled in combat.

Turn 5 - Daemons of Khorne
--------------------------
 

The Skullcannon snipes a single Ogre.

Turn 5 - Ogre Kingdoms
----------------------
 

I zoom the Sabretusk into place of annoyance meaning only a solo charge could get the Herald out or expose their back to the Ogres.  The Firebelly fails to yield any damage however the Leadbelchers reduce the Skullcannon from the material world.

Turn 6 - Daemons of Khorne
--------------------------
 

In true Khorne style the Herald solo charges into the Ogres bellowing his war cry.  He cuts down a single Ogre however in response great weapons with blunt edges dent and pierce the Juggernaut into a red paste across the desert floor.

Turn 6 - Ogre Kingdoms
----------------------
 

Out of range but the Ogres win the day.

Result - Ogre Kingdoms Victory

Conclusion:

To follow.

Wow, what a great BR!
Congrats for the win, and for the paint job on the BT. It looks fantastic.

Cheers,
A.

Another great battle, i look forward to reading the conclusion

I have to ask, where did you get the table from? It looks a lot more manageable than others i have seen

Hi Jimmy,

Thanks a lot for another great report! I must say that seeing both armies beautifully painted and arrayed on the great looking table is something many people enjoy in your games. If only tournament organizers could secure such quality of battle fields and players always brought beautiful armies

You did an amazing job on Mr. BT and it was a pleasure to see close ups. It is a fantastic model and I must say that when I saw the most recent versions for ET Archaon greater daemons I still prefer this one. Absolutely fantastic sculpt and you did great to show that with your painting.

The army of your friend looks quite interesting. He has 2 infantry units that can form kind of an anvil for the rest of the regiments. Big unit can go wide for more attacks or narrow for ranks and being steadfast longer.

Fleshhounds are great support units but are also amazing at killing small regiments of the enemy. Especially their charge can be powerful.

Bloodcrushers might not be as hard hitting as Skullcrushers and seem more vulnerable but they combine armor and ward save. They are still very good unit and can take on medium regiments of yours too.

Skillcannons don't need any introduction but I would try to exploit the fact they have flaming attacks and maybe tempt them with running solo Firebelly too.

The heralds will help their units a lot and I wonder if your friend considered joining small bloodletters with Juggernaut one as he fits nicely into that regiment (I think, would need to check the bases). That would bolster their combat prowess and provides more opportunities in terms of where the characters can be. In fact, he can also join Fleshhounds for extra magic protection.

Of course the main threat comes with Blood Thirster himself. His potential is a little reduced against your army as he cannot t-stomp anything. But with so many attacks he can do a lot of damage all by himself. It will still pay off to combine his martial prowess with ranks to break steadfast or even more attacks from other units. The good thing is you have tools to wound it and I am looking forward to seeing some heavy weight champions fights!

Terrain

I am currently working on improving my own games (I always do but as you know already I am searching for some well defined "points" to check while preparing for battle) and I noticed quite obviously that I should read the terrain better.

So in attempt to train myself in doing so let me try to do that here.

The main feature here is the huge tower. It can be both an obstacle and good defensive position. First thing I thought while seeing this was that it would be a great place for Leadbelchers to be. And considering the relative distances it would be possible for you to reach it in your turn 2 if deployed South and maybe turn 1 if deployed North.

At the same time it is a perfect place for small bloodletters as they can jump in there and use it to emerge the following turn where it is the best or draw some charges in.

That building divided the battle field into two areas and that would mean the units would need to be funneled through one or the other corridor. That means that the right flank can be a little crowded but would allow for a brutal frontal assault with both sides protected.

The woods on the center-left are actually a problematic feature for both armies as first, no one knows what is going to be in that mysterious terrain and second, fighting in woods takes away steadfast. A disadvantage for bigger Ogre units and Bloodletters.

Hence I was not surprised to see both generals deploying the infantry on the East.

Deployment

I think Ogres got more solid deployment and Jimmy used his advantage of dropping less dangerous units first and weighting on the flank where he could use his advantage of hitting hard on small frontage. Because of that I think it was a mistake to position big unit of bloodletters in horde formation. I would form them deep instead (fewer enemies can make contact) and stayed put to be a threat but advance with fast units around the tower on the other flank and deny it to Ogres with small unit of letters.

There are still a few things I don't quite understand in your deployment, Jimmy, so a few questions. Please, don't think I know better but I would love to ask what was your reasoning:

- Leadbelchers - having possibility to enter the tower and stay centrally for better target selection I thought they would go where MC1 were
- MC2 - why were they behind O3? They would project more threat if positioned for a charge already.
- same with O2 and associated characters

If the entire formation was moved to the left a little, with MC1 hugging the rocks, I think you would be able to push some of the regiments to the front rank and have better control over the area as no unit would block each other.

Also, who was picking the side?

Turn 1

I have an impression that the hounds and crushers on the West didn't move full distance they could. Is that correct? If yes, why was that so?

As I said I think big units should have stayed put and at the same time nearby hounds were also blocked so your opponent could not threat you with some long charges (even if it was not necessary, having such opportunity is a good idea).

You moved majority of the army forward as expected. However, O3 seemed to slow the advance . Also, why MC1 stayed back? Did you fear Skullcannon charge? I think you could have moved forward to be just out of the potential charge range of any unit of your enemy on that flank.

Turn 2

Was there any particular reason why Fleshhounds were constantly in front of the crushers? Also, second unit exposed the flank and indeed, that was a mistake.

I like your move with sabertusk that allowed for 2 combats per turn. Great thinking of a true MSU practitioner! Just a pity you could not inflict more damage and crumble the crushers all together. However, I missed a re-director here that would block the letters from flank charging. But there was nothing you could do unless you would have moved Tyrant out of a unit

The charge against blood letters was good too! You used the opportunity given by the opponent. I wonder though if you considered the following option:

- declare the charge with O3, Ironblaster and MC3 against the letters - that would probably allow you to get into combat with MC3, IB and maybe O3 but at least they would open the path for IB.
- declare the charge with big block and overrun into letters allowing single column to attack and keeping BT in your front

If that was possible to arrange then your IB would be safer in combat, you would put more pressure on the letters anyway and had better position to absorb counter charges while some fast units like MC 2 could move to the left and threaten to counter charge whatever was left after the combat there.

Turn 3

No surprise here that your friend counter-charged. He managed to break your units on the left flank but not on the right flank. That was dangerous for his general and I think he simply committed him too early.

I am afraid you made an illegal move though. While fighting to the front and to the flank you cannot reform to face Blood Thirster.

The counter attack was great idea but I wonder if your friend thought about challenging? That may have helped him to stay alive longer.

Turn 4

Daemons are really pushed hard now and again, the question needs to be asked about the challenge. Blood Letters helped a lot in that combat but it was for nothing as BT was wounded too many times. Well done Ogres!

It was inevitable to face that counter and Blood Letters alone could not withstand such punishment. With only 2 regiments left nothing could save the daemons and the rest of the game was simply a matter of how many of them are going to survive if at all.

Well done, Jimmy, it was well deserved victory!

Summary

I think you identified the threats well and used your advantages properly. It is nice to see MSU army that can actually absorb the damage! You exploited the mistakes nicely and I really liked the combats where you used larger number of units to engineer 2 fights per combat phase. Really, really great job and handbook example of how to do it!

Looking forward to reading your conclusions and I wonder what your friend would do differently. I am sure you both had a nice chat about it after the game

Cheers!

Nicely done Jimmy.
I am enjoying watching your progress.

I am not sure o your use for the Leadies this game. They didn't have too much purpose and hadn't realised they were in the list until near the end of the game.
I use both a 4 of leadies and 2 packs of mournfang in my list currently (though not an MSU list)
I find the combination of one of each unit on a flank can really hold the opponent up. They don't want to move into charge range of the mournfang which gives the leadies for time to shoot them.

Just to say thanks. Your BR's are allways very enjoyable.

Cheers for taking the time

/Jacob