2400 Beastmaster - Game 10 updated 10/07/14

Hey guys

I've only got a single game in with this list however I simply feel I've found a list that matches my play style.

Linky to Battle

Current List: 

Slaughtermaster - Sword of Striking, Earthing Rod, Armour of Destiny, Level 4, Lore of Beasts
Bruiser - BSB, Charmed Shield, Other Trickster's Shard, Sword of Anti-Heroes
Butcher - Forbidden Rod, Lore of the Great Maw
Butcher - Sword of Swift Slaying, Dispel Scroll, Lore of Beasts
7 Ironguts - Full Command, Standard of Discipline,  Look-Out Gnoblar
7 Ogres - Full Command, Ironfists, Look-Out Gnoblar
7 Maneaters - Full Command, Brace of Pistols, Banner of Eternal Flame, Stubborn, Poison Attacks
4 Mournfang Cavalry - Standard, Musician, Ironfists, Heavy Armour, Dragonhide Banner
3 x 1 Sabretusk

Old List:

Slaughtermaster - Gold Sigil Sword, Earthing Rod, Armour of Destiny, Level 4, Lore of Beasts
Bruiser - BSB, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation
Butcher - Forbidden Rod, Lore of the Great Maw
Butcher - Armour of Fortune, Ironcurse Icon, Dragonbane Gem, Lore of Beasts
6 Ironguts - Standard, Musician, Standard of Discipline,  Look-Out Gnoblar
2 x 6 Ogres - Standard, Musician, Ironfists, Look-Out Gnoblar
6 Maneaters - Standard, Musician, Brace of Pistols, Banner of Eternal Flame, Stubborn, Poison Attacks
4 Mournfang Cavalry - Standard, Musician, Ironfists, Heavy Armour, Gleaming Pendant
3 x 1 Sabretusk

I'm focusing taking away lessons from a thread that was created a while back and avoiding the stereotypical things we all see in a common Ogre Kingdoms list.

So it turns out I really like this list which is half the battle won for me.  I’ve settled on a ‘standard’ High Elves list I like, several for the Tomb Kings and I’ve always struggled with the Ogres in terms of finding something with a nice balance point.  Dual Mournfang is great and I like it but it’s not ‘different’ enough for me so hence the reason this list has popped up.

I’ve talked about the strengths of the list in the conclusion of the last battle report however I didn’t really touch on the weaknesses at all.  I think identifying these will go a long way in understanding the workings of the list much more and in turn hopefully this equates to using the army more skilfully and getting more wins.

From the top:

Slaughtermaster

In order to take full advantage of the Lore of Beasts then this guy is a must.  Better casting values/dispel etc so no need to go into that in great depth.  One of the advantages of Ogre characters with a simple great weapon they can turn out to be quite hitty and in a nutshell can act as a front line CR multiplier or stick them in the second rank for another Irongut.  Current layout is as follows:

- Gold Sigil Sword
- Earthing Rod
- Armour of Destiny

Gold sword I think is an underrated item for the Ogres, they’re so use to striking last against 90% of armies out there so it’s nice to have some type of ‘first response’ at least even if it’s just rattling off a few attacks.  When combined however with the right combination of spells those few attacks can suddenly turn into something very devastating indeed.  Earthing Rod is simple and I’m a big proponent if your general is also your main caster then the 25 points is obligatory in my opinion.  If he jumps down the hole then I’ve just handed over just shy of 500 victory points to my opponent which drastically swings any game.

Ward I think is another must especially without Lore of the Great Maw, no chance of regaining wounds so I need to rely on the ward save to avoid death snipes, fighting characters (in ‘ogre mode’) etc.

- Lore of Beasts

Going to touch on this now as it synergises so well with the Ogres and this build but I also think it’s one of the most underappreciated lore available to Ogres and will directly translate into a far harder lord to deal with (potentially).

Wyssan’s Wildform – without a doubt the go to spell for this army.  I’m always guaranteed to have it twice and I can think of no situation where I wouldn’t want it twice.  Turning basic infantry units into S5/T5 units make shift them from ‘average’ to ‘capable’ in combat but also seeing as they have very little in the way of armour the T5 certainly reduces small arms fire on the way into the enemy.  Also want to touch on impact hits, with ranks etc this can mean Ogre/Ironguts can have impact hits up to S6/7 with a spell and different character combinations.  Getting 2-3 wounds off before the combat begins can really swing the course of the combat.

Flock of Doom – Ok this spell is probably missing S3 however it does have an application.  It’s range is incredible and it’s extremely cheap to cast.  Once again however I’d nearly drop this spell every time for the above.

Curse – Incredible spell.  Ideally I like this on the level 4 to make it a bit easier to cast but if I end up with it on the level 2 it’s not the end of the world.  With a relatively low WS I need all the help I can get to reduce damage in combat, this spell is the answer to that.  If the opponent chooses to dispel this then I can give Wildform (or two) a go instead.

Amber Spear – Even though I’m short an Ironblaster this spell more than makes up for it.  Normally I rely on Maneaters to put some hurt on the big nasty creatures however aid can come in the form of the Amber spear or when those inevitable moments approach me when the Maneater’s simply can’t be everywhere at once.  Even getting a big nasty damaged with this spell would be enough to question a charge into a unit of Ogres I would think.  A very strong spell for the opening turns of the game, putting pressure on monsters, keeping them hidden and let’s not forget warmachines.  Behaving like a bolt thrower also cannot be overlooked, if a flank shot presents itself with Monstrous Cavalry/Cavalry then it’s another sure deal.

Savage Beast – This one is the premiere spell for the Slaughtermaster, combined with the Sigil Sword he can swing out a healthy 7 attacks at strength 7.  That’s enough to concern anyone.  Depending on the situation as well and how many characters are in a unit/combat then 6 dicing it might be the way to win the game.  Simply put this spell is the go to when you must win the combat.

Panns – On the flip side I think this spell is the spell when you wish to ‘hold’ the combat.  Could be for a number of reasons but I might cast this on a single character, accept the challenge with him and take minimal damage whilst taking X character out of the combat from inflicting massive damage onto the rank and file.  Another application is having 3 characters up front in a unit similar to a Bretonnian Lance and taking minimal damage, if the bubble spell goes off then the enemy has charged a T8 Ogre block which is hard to shift regardless of who you are.

Transformation of Kadon – A classical spell and one that was certainly of highlight when 8th edition first arrived.  Since then however the emphasis has been swayed over to the uber spells from other decks that knock out whole units per turn.  I don’t think this spell is any different, it just needs to be applied in a different way.  The advantage of having two casters with beasts is if this sneaks through then I can attempt Wildform and effectively have a S8/T8 Mountain Chimera if it goes off of course and get’s +1 to cast because it’s now being cast on a monster.

In basic summary there is so many casting options available and combinations that there is nearly no bad way to use the lore when combined with this list.

Other Fat People of note

Bruiser – A stock standard BSB.  Ward save to protect him from the elements and of course gives him greater appeal to wander up to the front rank and make use of a bubbled Savage beasts/Pann’s Pelt spell.  Of course deploying him away from the Slaughtermaster is another option I have to explore to spread my forces much better and avoid the classic case of loading a unit up with all the characters situation permitting.  Of course the other issue is miscasts really hurt me with the MMU approach.  Get a Wildform off on this guy and he becomes a mini tyrant.

Butcher – Level 1, Lore of the Great Maw.  I need it, there is no way around it.  Ideally spells I can use are anything except the Maw.  Stubborn is handy and underrated, any of the augments will be a fantastic addition as will the magic missile which can keep enemy armoured targets honest.  Forbidden Rod goes here to help power up a less than 6 dice phase to greater than.  Of course timing is essential as I don’t want to pop it too early and yield nothing in terms of magic.  So perhaps around the first charges etc.

Butcher – Level 2, Lore of Beasts.  The Backup auxiliary Slaughtermaster’s little buddy.  Will always drop a spell for the signature and bonus to anything else.  His primary target will generally be the Mournfang Cavalry in order to get a +3 to cast making it that tinier bit easier to get the spell through because it’s not ideal on a level 2 and you really need to 3 dice it to ensure it goes off.  Ward save packed so I have the option of the front rank shenanigans again and to reduce damage.  He’s also packing a 6+ ward against Warmachines which might be handy to slip him in against Maneaters etc that will struggle to close the gap and because they’re such a high priority target.  Dragonbane as well to be able to take some sneaky challenges if needed.

Core

Firstly Ogres need a mention.  2 units of 6 so working on the mmu principle seems to be working well so far (1 game at least!!).  They provide full attacks (no wastage points wise), look far less threatening than the usual buses we see loaded out with characters yet also are a size that simply cannot be ignored.  This way they can also be used to bait a unit provided the reward is great enough.

Let's touch on spells for a moment, wildform on bulls all of a sudden turns them into quite an elite unit that requires a lot of resources to pull down.

The iron guts will simply always be a character bunker for at least the slaughtermaster.  Reason being they are the only core unit with access to a magical banner otherwise I would nearly be tempted to run all Ogres (played around briefly with a list that has the Bsb carrying banner of discipline).  The Ironguts also provide the usual high strength attacks giving the list (outside magic) some much needed anti-armour capability.  I expect these guys to generally cop the most amount of fire simply because the house the characters.

Special

Maneaters

I'll start with these guys although they are the unit that I have least experience with.  I believe every list outside of magic needs a shooting phase with ogres being no exception.  Without an Ironblaster to fall back upon deployment is critical for this unit more so than any other in the list.  Also this makes them of high priority to the enemy and for a relatively low armoured unit they cost a lot and aren't that difficult to eliminate.  Braces of pistols all around for firepower and poison to match for ensuring a few automatic wounds on any given target above their pay grade.  Primarily I will use this unit as monster hunters which also counts on stubborn in case they need help.

Stubborn is also a good way of setting up counter charges.  Stick it in front of a unit that can't possibly destroy the unit in a single turn and simply wait for the cavalry.  Obviously it's an expensive pinning progress but if it's against another core unit against most armies or another carefully selected unit or a gamble that may change the course if the game for a better direction it's a worthy option.

It's also worth mentioning that characters can be deployed in this unit if need be however that paints an even juicier target on them.

Wildform turns these guys into wrecking machines, multiply that by two and they're sporting a very terrifying 3  x S8 impact hits and 24 poisonous S7 attacks.  Chances are they won't need stubborn if that's the case!

Mournfang Cavalry

My new theory is to keep these guys cheap.  As sensational as the dragon hide banner is for a few more points you can nearly buy another model in the unit.  I'm not doubting the raw power the banner brings at all however I won't be planning in steam rolling units 1 on 1 and I think that is where the banner excels.  A few things present issues to the MFC outside of combat, war machines, various magic spells and any type of leadership based test.  Traditionally if these guys are fielded I never like outside of 12".  That won't change however with the addition of cheap re-roll in the form of a magic banner I do have the ability to field then wide if the situation calls for it.  They will however be looking for flanks and double teaming with any ogre brick they can.

On magic with these guys wildform nearly guarantees they become impervious to small arms fire and bumps the impact hits up to a mega S6 which is capable of denting any unit in the game.  I'll solely be focusing on s3/4 units in the game (as rare as they are!) but a level of intelligence is required to keep these guys presence in the game and a constant threatening manner at all times.  They are the fastest unit I have in my arsenal and I'll be careful not to throw them away in vain.

Sabretusks

People once upon a time claimed eagles were the best unit the high elves had access to.  Sabretusks are without a doubt of equal calibre for the Ogre Kingdoms.  Effectively they are 3 chances to dictate combat on my own terms.  If they panic or break they are lost with ld4 so the key is to keep them away 6" at least from everything within reason.

These units are the most valued 63 points in my army.  I need to pay attention to their deployment, not deploying them in the first wave and really taking my time with them by evaluating threats and choosing overrun directions etc when the time comes.

Of course other duties are war machine hunting, with fantastic speed they can scream up a unprotected flank to hassle war machines if necessary however I think the first option will always be the preferred purely because of a pus leadership.

Deployment

This is an area I can really improve on.  I need to think more outside of the box in terms of unit formations.  Deploying units in single ranks or two wide are all acceptable options depending on the match ups and I can’t lose sight of that.

The basic principle to stick to will be staying off the 12” line in general, I need to inflict some damage before combats mainly to big nasties through shooting/magic that will be looking to get behind my lines and me into trouble.

List Weaknesses

Ok so I go through all of that to basically get to the important part of the list.

Monsters

These spring to mind first.  They’ve effectively got the ability to tie up and destroy either of the units of Ogres and mournfang if they get the charge.  Outside of the that the Maneaters will at least be able to tie and possibly kill a monster in combat if I’m lucky enough to ping it in combat and the Ironguts will be able to take it out and no doubt have character/s support along for the ride as well.  This is also why deployment is so important for what I feel is a very specialised list, I cannot give the enemy opportunities to get into positions to steal the initiative.  Shooting and Magic will be my go to tools here before swiping in combat if need be.

Death stars

Any unit with the ability to completely wipe one of mine out is certainly a cause for concern.  Generally it’s pretty easy to dictate where these units go and with Magic (Curse) and careful placement of units (Sabretusks) I think I have the tool to deal with it and when/if ready engage it on my terms.

Gun lines

Very tough to deal with however with a pretty solid movement/march rate and the augments decreasing some damage it probably won’t be as bad as what I would imagine it to be.  I’d love to see a Gorger in the list however the points are just far too tight.

Summary

Thanks for reading my rant and I truly appreciate if you’ve got this far.  This has been a collection of thoughts over the past few days that I’ve jotted down here and there.  Basically this list is a very ‘heavy’ magic themed list for Ogres.  Targets of priority for me will be the opponents wizards to ensure I gain magic superiority in the quickest way possible.  With that in mind perhaps it’s a big bogus not to include the hellheart?  In a perfect world, once the enemy spell casters are taken out of the occasion I’ll have the added tools required to pull apart the enemy piece meal (hopefully!)

I have been working on some alternative builds however I won’t bother talking/looking at these until a few more games under my belt.

I have been looking into a list like this for swedish comp as well since the forum discussion.

Your battle report was a great read, really enjoyed the style of it, and the fact that you turned into a Mountain Chimera to smash face.

Only counter against shooty armies would be to get in fast and use wysans it seems.

Currently running a big unit of 8 Ogres, 7 Maneaters and 6 Ironguts + a Firebelly and  two sets of 4 Lead Belchers.

Thinking about testing how I like your approach and messing with character builds as squeezing in a Firebelly causes points issues in the Hero allowance

I like it! One thing to not forget, Mournfang enjoy the benefits of the Lore attribute for Beasts too.

I do have a lot of character models myself - could be worth me trying out something similar. I have been accused of hero hammer at times...

One thing I was thinking about - would the Sword of Striking not be a more viable option for your BeastMaster? Striking first is nice and all, but you're still attacking after ASF units, and with his WS4 it might be nicer just to hit on 3's instead of 4's. And if some form of WS9-10 or a -1 to hit turns up it won't hurt you too badly.

That is a very nice list you have there.  I love the reasoning you gave for skipping the dragonhide banner.  I've been looking into skipping it myself.  It just seems so rare that I get to use it to its full power.  I either get charged by something with a higher movement speed, or, like in my last game, I get shot apart by Sisters of Avalorn during the charge (handmaiden with potion of strength REALLY hurts).

I'm happy to see more varied lists out there winning.  How do you find the major beasts buffs work with all the characters spread out in different units?  Do you bother trying to do the bubble cast, or do you just pick one guy to be a death machine each time?

Why no rare choices ? ironblaster seems good vs the monsters

Why no rare choices ? ironblaster seems good vs the monsters

They are good against monsters.  That is the point as to why he didn't include them.  Read this article to see why: http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=28274.0

Jimmy has made a post discussing how he felt every ogre list looks the same.  Each list has the same things, including ironblasters.  So, Jimmy's list is an attempt to make a competitive list without using the usual suspects.

Hey guys

Thanks for the replies firstly.

@Snizzle – Firstly credit all goes to Silas7 on the Warhammer Forum as he planted the seed in me after reading a few of his tournament reports where he ran a Lore of Beasts Slaughtermaster, I really like doing things differently so the rest is history.  I certainly enjoyed the battle report however one must highlight the fact it was versus an army with little shooting and no magic.  So whilst I’m optimistic about the list I’m certainly not saying it won’t have its fair share of many uphill struggles ahead of it but that’s going to be the fun part! 

It’s certainly a squeeze with points for characters however I guess the extra wounds makes up for this in some way.

@psychic – worth mentioning that’s for sure.  Even means the Level 2 is casting Wildform that bit easier on the MFC.  Nobody likes these guys running around let along at S/T 5!!

That’s a very interesting option about the magic weapon fitout.  I’m adamant not to change the list for a few games at least however I’ll certainly been keeping tabs on that selection to swap out at the next draft.  Thanks for sharing!

@Law – Thanks for the comments.  I think everyone nearly expects the Dragonhide Banner on the MFC as well so they tend to take extra care to eliminate/re-direct it most of the game, if you’re lucky you’ll get a single combat with the unit because of superior unit positioning on your opponents behalf.

All the casts come down to what is in front of me.  If the unit the character is in is unlikely to take much damage or has Wildform up then I’ll probably just turn one character into a wrecking ball.  If it’s an extreme situation or I’m in dire need to turn around a huge combat then I might be 6 dicing something.  I guess the bubble spells are a little similar in terms of bubble guts that everyone is use to seeing, it’s all about timing.  Much more games needed though on my behalf.

@gwedo – LawGnome has pretty much summed it up.  The other reason however is simple, I currently treat the Ironblaster like a monster.  Everyone simply targets it and neutralises it with malice.  If you don’t get the first turn then chances are it’s going to take wounds or be destroyed in the opening frame of the battle.  Certainly unit positioning and cover can play a fact in this but between enemy cannons/magic/ambushers/stone throwers it’s a tough ask to keep it in safety whilst staying effective.  Lastly I’m taking a bit of an old school stance on this, we didn’t need them last edition and although I know there is such a wider variety of enemy units out there now that it seems crazy not to include it but we’ll see where it takes me! 

Once again, thanks for the comments all.

Second game against the Dark Elves is up here guys:

Linky to Battle 2

 

So I can't help but feel that those Maneaters equate to 10 Leadbelchers.  That's a lot of extra firepower.  However we all know how fickle that said firepower can be of course but then I can have two lots of firepower at different parts of the battlefield.  Secondly I've got another hearty 15 ogre attacks to add to any combat if the opportunity presents itself.  Granted I lose my Stubborn unit and my dedicated monster hunter with the loss of poison.

What are the initial thoughts on this?

Third game with this list is up gentlemen.  Please check it out and add some commentary in the relevant section, don't be scared! 

Linky to Battle 3

I'd really like to get Ironfists on the Lore of Beasts casters however the only way I see this happening is by dropping the Look Out Gnoblars around the place and of course I don't feel like I've come up against a heavy shooting list as yet so they're probably one thing I'd really like to keep.  Any thoughts on this?

So this weekend I should be facing off for two games running the usual list for me.

Game 1 will be versing the Daemons of Khorne again so it will be interesting to see how I go again with them.  With MR just about everywhere they're tricky to inflict ranged damage with and I'm pretty sure my opponent certainly won't make the same mistake of getting his Bloodthirster into combat with the Slaughtermaster who transforms into the Chimera.

Game 2 will be facing off against my brother and his Warriors of Chaos which provides an intriguing match up.  If I can pick off his Chimera quickly, re-direct his units with Sabretusks and carefully pick my battles then it should prove to be some extra calories for the Ogres.

Hopefully they both get crushed and devoured. Love the list though, I want to give your SM/Butcher set ups a go one day...but with 3 or 4 units of 3 MFC(easy buffing with beasts), sabretusks, ironblaster and mini gutstar.

Good Luck

-GL

Hey guys

Bit of an update.  Firstly I've got 2 more games in with this list so a bit more experience to the table so to speak.

My last game certainly uncovered the need for some more magical attacks so with that in mind I've looked at that issue.  Secondly I find myself purely using one of the Ogre units as a bunker and that's a waste of points so I'm thinking about re-structuring the core to be a bit more stable and to ensure I'm using it all.

Linky to Battle 4
Linky to Battle 5

Here's the next incarnation I'm currently toying with:

Slaughtermaster - Gold Sigil Sword, Earthing Rod, Armour of Destiny, Level 4, Lore of Beasts, Ironfist
Bruiser - BSB, Heavy Armour, Charmed Shield, Other Trickster's Shard, Sword of Anti-Heroes
Butcher - Forbidden Rod, Lore of the Great Maw, Extra Hand Weapon
Butcher - Level 2, Lore of Beasts, Dispel Scroll, Sword of Swift Slaying
7 Ironguts - Full Command, Standard of Discipline,  Look-Out Gnoblar
7 Ogres - Full Command, Ironfists, Look-Out Gnoblar
6 Maneaters - Standard, Muscian, Brace of Pistols, Banner of Eternal Flame, Stubborn, Poison Attacks
4 Mournfang Cavalry - Standard, Musician, Ironfists, Heavy Armour, Gleaming Pendant
3 x 1 Sabretusk

I've still got 109 points left over so can add the Dragonhide Banner to the MFC and of course there are a lot of other options to play with.  Looking forward to hearing some thoughts from the community.

Jimmy:

Here's what I would do with that list:

Change the gold sigil sword to the sword of striking.  I think you will get a lot more consistent benefit out of that compared to the one time it might benefit you if you get savage beast off.

As for spending the extra points, I have 2 options for you to consider: drop a sabretusk and get 3 leadbelchers, or drop a sabretusk and get a scraplauncher.  More shooting, and both are very useful units.

If you take the leadbelchers, you may want to drop the musician from the mournfang and add it too the leadbelchers for swift reforms in the event of fast cav in your flank.

Drop a sabre tusk???  Crazy talk sir!  On my phone - will discuss later.

Haha asking Jimmy to drop a Sabretusk is like asking a Tyrant to give up his favorite gnoblar cook.... 

Accusations of crazy talk notwithstanding, hear me out on this one:

Sabretusks are fantastic units, but they suffer from low leadership and are easy to kill with shooting.  As a result, you can't place them near anything for fear of them running or causing something else to run.

With two sabres, you get to place one on either flank, away from your main units, and you don't have to spoil the symmetry by having 1 tusk on one flank and 2 on the other.

Finally, by dropping one tusk, you have access to one of two shooty units, one of which is NEVER taken.  Also, with your current list, you can't effectively spend your leftover points, so what do you have to lose?

Though I guess you could keep the tusk and drop an ogre.  Run the ogre block in a 4x2 formation, rather than your current plan of 3x3.

Either way, you can get a fun shooty unit.  I'd get the scraplauncher.  No one expects the scraplauncher.

Haha asking Jimmy to drop a Sabretusk is like asking a Tyrant to give up his favorite gnoblar cook.... 

QFT. 

@LawGnome - you offer some valid points mate of that have no doubt.  Everything you've said is accurate about the Sabretusks however that's where I have to ensure I'm not lazy and make sure they're 7" away from anything I care about so I have zero chance of panic tests ruining my army.  7" away from a friendly unit is still plenty of room allowing them to march 16" to block/redirect/annoy in this instance.

Although it would be nice to gain more shooting in the army I don't believe the lists failure/success hinges on the shooting phase.  Scraplaunchers just don't cut it in my opinion, in a nut shell the poor strength, tiny template and points cost for what you're getting just simply does not cut it.  Great it's got killing blow S3 shots but it will do jack to monsters/monstrous cav/monstrous inf etc.  Tactica will come on this as we all know.

There are some other options yet to be explored:

- Addition of the Dragonhide Banner on the Mournfang
- Addition of single Mournfang model in unit.
- Addition of a single Maneater for the purpose of ablative (yet expensive) wounds

Although it would be nice to gain more shooting in the army I don't believe the lists failure/success hinges on the shooting phase.  Scraplaunchers just don't cut it in my opinion, in a nut shell the poor strength, tiny template and points cost for what you're getting just simply does not cut it.  Great it's got killing blow S3 shots but it will do jack to monsters/monstrous cav/monstrous inf etc.  Tactica will come on this as we all know.

See, there's your problem.  You're looking at it as just a shooting unit.  What you need to look at it as is a chariot that has things it can do while getting into combat.  You aren't going to be using it to try to take out anything monstrous.  What you are going to do is use it to take out infantry while you are on the way.  Your list has already shown that it can handle the bigger things (because of course it can, they are ogres).  With the scraplauncher, you get the opportunity to wipe out a quarter of the warrior of nurgle block or the white lion block before you charge in. 

Let amber spear take out the big monsters.  Let your ironguts take out the chaos ogres.  Let your maneaters take out the chimera.  Let the scraplauncher whittle down infantry before helping double charge something.

I've played a lot of games against high elves where I took an ironblaster and spent the first three rounds wishing I had brought scraplaunchers instead.

I've got a habit of trying to remove all random shooting from my lists after playing Tomb Kings for far too long, this screams at me of disappointment.  Besides I don't own the model so wouldn't feel it.  I don't face many Elves this neck of the woods I currently I don't have a valid reason to field it.

It works equally well on skaven, dark elves, wood elves, lizardmen, WoC, etc.  Anything that uses at least one big block of infantry.

Unlike regular shooting, this is a full fledged chariot with 10 attacks and str 5 impact hits.  Compare it to a unit of 20 TK archers: if something gets into melee with them, they are toast, while the scraplauncher wants to get into combat.  If anything, I would consider it a thundertusk lite.  Shooting on the way into combat, and a decent combat beast when it gets there.

Also, you don't need the model.  Just proxy it with an ironblaster to see what you think.

Like I've said, I've played it before, and it does pretty well.  Sure, it's not the greatest unit compared to the ironblaster, but it does mulch its way through infantry on the way to beating stuff up.

Not running it.  They're junk in my opinion and missing just a few things in order to be a solid choice.

Fair enough.  Just giving support to my suggestions

Fair enough.  Just giving support to my suggestions

Absolutely appreciate that mate, you're certainly one person I look forward to hearing from in terms of pulling my battle reports/lists apart so go nuts.

But please LawGnome - go and check out my other battle reports I posted!  Zero comments on them is making me upset! 

It's great that you are keeping all of your reports using a beastmaster list consolidated in one place. Makes it really easy to keep track on how it does for my own purposes.

Do you plan on making any changes to your list now? Maybe two units of MFC to take advantage of the easier casting of wildform?

-GL

Started running a Beasts SM myself recently and I have to defend Flock of Doom a little bit. Strength 2 really sucks, but when you consider that it is a magic missile with 48" range and can be cast reliably as such with 2-3 dice, it mulches war machines with a touch of luck. With an entire lore of buffs besides this and Amber Spear, casting it first at a Bolt Thrower really puts your opponent on the back foot of what to dispel. Don't dispel it, maybe lose your precious elven bolts - dispel it and make it easier for me to buff up my characters and units?

I also really like to yell "FLY MY BIRD FRIENDS" when it goes off.

That's beautiful MAVV!!  I agree with you, flock of doom is great for taking out pesky elves as well like way watchers for example!! 

@gutlord - I did make some changes to the list and used it in two games on the weekend versing the new Wood Elves and Warriors of Chaos.  Interesting games and I'm still learning things about the list and of course the Ogre Kingdoms themselves.  I'll get battle reports up this week and look forward to the comments it will generate!

Ok so here's the game I had against the Wood Elves with the modified list:

Linky to Battle 6

Please take a look and offer some comments.

Current list:

Slaughtermaster - Sword of striking, Earthing Rod, Armour of Destiny, Level 4, Lore of Beasts, Ironfist
Bruiser - BSB, Heavy Armour, Charmed Shield, Other Trickster's Shard, Sword of Anti-Heroes
Butcher - Forbidden Rod, Lore of the Great Maw, Extra Hand Weapon
Butcher - Level 2, Lore of Beasts, Dispel Scroll, Sword of Swift Slaying
7 Ironguts - Full Command, Standard of Discipline,  Look-Out Gnoblar
7 Ogres - Full Command, Ironfists, Look-Out Gnoblar
7 Maneaters - Standard, Musician, Brace of Pistols, Banner of Eternal Flame, Stubborn, Poison Attacks
4 Mournfang Cavalry - Standard, Musician, Ironfists, Heavy Armour, Gleaming Pendant
3 x 1 Sabretusk

Dropping the ward saves on the characters certainly hurt a little at times but in saying that I did roll poorly on some dangerous terrain tests and lost my BSB because of it!  It was a real shame in fact as he was charging a unit with 2 characters in it and I got off bubble beasts at the same time so he would have been sporting a very hearty 9 attacks at S10!

A few worthy notes, I really liked the increased unit sizes in this game, sure it was only an extra 3 wounds however I can already note a bit more resilience in them with the extra wounds - sure turn 1 miscasts don't help.  Secondly I think this battle of all battles so far really showcased the Ogres in a new light, just a single casting of wildform on them turned them from average troops to very hitty ones and they tally they finished the game with was amazing.

Definitely agree with you on the Wildform. so far everyone I've played had let it through, underestimating my bulls entirely too much. Add in rank bonus strength for impact hits and knights just get boweled over, it's beautiful. I love Beasts.

All too true MAVV.  Having Savage Beast in the arsenal is almost a bit of a trump card, your opponent knows it so you can swing a single Wildform or sometimes two through onto your core troops or MFC and they'll be very intent on stopping Savage Beasts.  This means the Ogres/Ironguts essentially do the heavy lifting but also the characters benefit enough from it to be resilient to cop some damage.

Linky to Battle 7

Well Game 7 against Warriors of Chaos is here.  Was a fun game as per usual and the basic Ogre with Wildform certainly proved their worth again.

Linky to Battle 8

So I got a game in against the same Wood Elves opponent previous sporting a different list.  Presented some interesting problems but at no time did I feel outmatched and I also felt like I was well equipped with the right tools to undo that box of tree hugging elves.

Really like your list/reports Jimmy.

Out of interest, in your list only your ogres have a lo gnoblar? Do you put them in the maneaters and Ironguts?
Also, have you thought about 2 single pistols as opposed to a brace for the last guy in the back?

Got another game up against the Daemons of Khorne which was a bit of fun and clearly illustrates my gumbniess with character positioning, I've got something clear to work on at least! 

Linky to Battle 9

On BSB I can't help but feel he's a bit of a glass cannon in terms of longevity with the current setup.  If I give him a ward save and a great weapon then with a single casting of savage beasts he still comes out like a combat monster (6 x S10) hits striking last but has a ward save at least to make him a bit more tanky as opposed to the current build.

@D - The updated list that I'm currently using is on the first page, the IG/Ogres both have Look out Gnoblars.  I'm bang on 2400 on the nose so can't give the 7th maneaters (ie - 3 expensive wounds) any kit however I don't believe he'll be a permanent fixture in the list to be honest - wait and see. 

hey great report and thanks for the response

have you thought of adding a great weapon on the maneaters? yes you lose a brace for it, but it means they are a decent way to deal with MC (without relying on wyssans in case you have a low roll on winds). also do you run them 4 wide? whether or not the brace vs gw is worth it comes down to what opponents you face but in an all comers list i think some S7 attacks from one guy with a gw are awesome. even if he fluffs attacks, it is a threat for any unit tempted to charge them

Hey D

Admittedly I have not thought about adding the great weapon for a few reasons.  Firstly the unit exists purely to take down monsters and tie up units.  You've presented Monstrous Cavalry for example as the enemy, if they manage to get into combat with my Maneaters then I've majorly stuffed up somewhere along the line and haven't used my Sabretusks/magic correctly.  I'm very careful with my Maneaters because they're so expensive you can't afford to use them like Ogres/Ironguts and just leak wounds all over the battlefield.  In the current build they're just shy of 23 points per wound!!!  So as you can imagine each wound really makes it's mark every time they get shot at.

Whilst it would be nice to have some S7 attacks in the unit I think he'd probably be the first one to be killed anyway.

Yup the way most people run the GW is in the back, which I think is suboptimal. If you put him on the standard bearer then he is the last to die. Yes it means you sacrifice a S5 attack to get 4S7, but I find it gives the unit additional flexibility.

Agree that the ME haemorrage points. In my lists I tend to be happy to lose either them or the MF, and I run the ME 4 wide cause I want to get them into combat (im not running pistols on them for that reason). Having said that I am running an ironblaster so more of a netlist than yours...
I am more worried about BS shooting vs the ME since that bleds points. With stubborn I have seen maneaters knight and demi combi charges  (I was sacrificing them to protect the rest of my army). With a wyssans (or troll guts), which you can have in your list, the meaneaters arn't a bad counter to MC (agreed not the best you have in the list).

Fwiw, love the lvl4 beasts, I briefly tried out heavens (which i think has some usage across the board), but changed to beasts and have been using him ever since.  With 4 characters I think he is a must.

Given the bubble buffs the maw provide have you ever considered 2 lvl 1/2 on beasts and a level 4 on maw? Since you can potentially buff the St/T/Regen, that should allow you to get a few wyssans off? I personally dont usually rate the level 4 in maw, but can see the synergy in your list. Having said that i think you need amber spear to deal with some threats.

Hey D firstly apologies for never replying to this message.

That's a good idea about the standard for the great weapon wielder.  In my next battle I actually dropped all of the man eaters and replaced them with a block of Leadbelchers and although I require much more play testing it's certainly worthy to keep it in the list I feel.

Linky to Battle 10

So 10 games with the basics of this list under my belt and it has fast become one of my favourite ways to run the Ogres and will be my go to list for some time.  The one major lesson that I've taken away from all of the games however is to 'believe' in the power of Wildform.  The way I've built my characters it's very easy to get tunnel vision and just reckless try and get Savage Beast off on them to make one man armies but ultimately S/T 6 Ogres are just as (if not more) capable of winning the day.  The simple strategy to open the magic phase with double casting of Wildform is great as if your opponent ignores it you've achieved what you have set out to, if he opts to dispel one of them then it generally opens the door for Savage Beasts.

I hope you've enjoyed the write ups for now. 

Thanks for the response, love the reports and definitely think leadbelchers are an interesting edition (esp in the current lots of elf meta). Your list is  (ironically) inspiring me to consider a Lvl4 on guts with double level2 on beasts. With the amount of shooting around wyssans or toughness buffs are increasingly important, and the bubble toughness / strength spell provides a similar threat to double wyssans, but the trade off is losing the threat of savage beasts. will probably try and run in sometime late august... Do you think the lack of savage beasts as a threat will prevent me getting the wyssans off? Or are level2s good enough to casts wyssans (since they requite 3 dice usually..)

Hey D, if you're running that combination then I don't think Savage Beasts will be missed as long as you have Trollguts as people will save dice/scroll for that every time. 

Yes Wildform will take 3 dice to go off however if you ensure Forbidden Rod is in there somewhere you should be fine.  Try and pick the MFC for Wildform, then the Butchers are only needing to roll a 7+ on 3 dice to ensure the spell goes off.

Hello, Im new to Ogre Kingdoms and have enjoyed reading through this topic. I myself want to try running the 'standard' ogre core; 2 Ironblasters, Unit of leadbelchers, Mournfangs, 3x1 Sabertusks etc etc. But what i want to do differently is run your hero selection. However to fit all this in, i have to be very light on points spent on upgrades and i want to ask you whether Level 4 slaughtermaster with beasts is significantly worth it over a Level 3?

Thank you Minigiant.  As I answered in your topic yes I do believe the Level 4 upgrade is worth it.