2400 Beastmaster vs Warriors of Chaos

Ogre Kingdoms vs. Warriors of Chaos
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With my brother back in town for a fortnight it was time to face the Warriors of Chaos again.  I wasn't sure what my brother was going to bring and he usually always turns up with something fun and not powered to any particular theme so I was sure it would be a good test for the Beast Ogre list I had been running recently.

Overview
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Date played: Friday, 9 May 2014

Ogre Kingdoms
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  (B1) Butcher
      - Extra Hand Weapon, Lore of the Great Maw (Spinemarrow), Forbidden Rod
  (B2) Butcher
      - Extra Hand Weapon, Lore of Beasts (Wildform, Curse), Armour of Fortune
  (SM) Slaughtermaster
      - Gold Sigil Sword, Armour of Destiny, Earthing Rod, Lore of Beasts (Wildform, Pelt, Savage Beasts, Kadon), Level 4, Ironfist
  (B3) Bruiser
      - BSB, Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield, Light Armour
  (I) 6 Ironguts
      - Full Command, Standard of Discipline
  (O1) 6 Ogres
      - Bellower, Standard, Ironfists, Look-out Gnoblar
  (O2) 6 Ogres
      - Bellower, Standard, Ironfists
  (M) 6 Maneaters
      - Musician, Standard, Banner of Eternal Flame, Stubborn, Poison, Brace of Pistols x 6
  (MC) 4 Mournfang Cavalry
      - Standard, Musician, Ironfists, Heavy Armour, Gleaming Pennant
  (S1) Sabretusk
  (S2) Sabretusk
  (S3) Sabretusk

Warriors of Chaos
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  (DP) Daemon Prince
      - Mark of Tzeentch, Lore of Metal (Blades, Robes, Hounds, Final) 2+ re-rollable save
  (EH) Exalted Hero
      - Mark of Tzeentch, BSB
  (WoT) 19 Warriors of Tzeentch
      - Shields, Full Command
  (CoK1) Chariot of Khorne
  (CoK2) Chariot of Khorne
  (COoK) 6 Chaos Ogres of Khorne
      - Great Weapons, Full Command
  (C) Chimera
      - Scaly Skin, Regeneration
  (S) 3 Skullcrushers
      - Ensorcelled Weapons, Musician
  (H) Hellcannon

Basic plan was to eliminate the support elements of the army being the Chimera, Hellcannon and Chariots.  Use the Sabretusks to do the usual things and I felt I could tackle the rest of the force.

Deployment
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Idea was the catapult the Maneaters into the tower to give the BSB a much better range on his banner waving skills.  Ogres got the first turn.

Turn 1 - Ogre Kingdoms
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The Beastmaster signalled the advance and the Ogres begun stomping the ground and made their way towards the armoured foes.  The Mournfang trotted down the flank whilst the Maneaters took up firing positions in the nearby tower giving greater view over the battlefield and inspiring all of the Ogres as the Bruiser waived the standard of the army high and proud.  Light winds blew across the battlefield (5 vs 3) as the Beastmaster cast Wildform onto the Mournfang Cavalry however the Daemon Prince put an end to Curse being cast onto the Warriors.

Turn 1 - Warriors of Chaos
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The armoured foe respond to the Ogres movement and begin to encircle the army as the Skullcrushers mirror the Mournfangs movement.  The Warriors also garrison the nearby tower and the Daemon Prince gets to work (5 vs 3) conjuring up Enchanted Blades onto the Chaos Ogres however the Beastmaster puts a stop to Glittering Robes.  The Hellcannon takes aim at the advancing Mournfang however the shot scatters shredding one of the beasts in some shrapnel but it looks unimpressed.

Turn 2 - Ogre Kingdoms
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The Ironguts charge into the nearby Chariot of Khorne not allowing it a second to gather its thoughts from its frenzied state.  The Ogre Cavalry continue at a relentless pace up the flank whilst the remaining Ogres consolidate their positions near the centre of the battlefield.    The Beastmaster harnesses what magic he can (11 vs 6) as Wildform takes effect onto the Ogres nearby courtesy of the Beast Butcher.  The Beastmaster attempts this onto the Mournfang however the Daemon Prince dispels this attempt.  Finally Savage Beast is attempted however the Beastmaster loses focus and the spell ceases.  The Maneaters snap off rounds towards the Chimera and the beast roars in pain as the poison takes effect into its bloodstream.

Combat is a simple and brutal affair, the Beastmaster steps forth inflicting 2 wounds onto the war machine however a single Irongut is claimed for the Blood God before the chariot is turned into firewood.  The unit reforms to face it's Chaos Brethren.

Turn 2 - Warriors of Chaos
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The Chaos Ogres remarkably show restraint and stare down the Ironguts as the remaining forces of Chaos move into position.  Magic is a quick affair (6 vs 5) as the Daemon Prince casts Final Transmutation onto the Ironguts however the Beastmaster harnesses all of his power to prevent this from taking hold.  With his remaining magical strength the Daemon Prince casts glittering robes onto the Khornate Ogres.  The Hellcannon attempts to unload its Daemonic payload however it misfires causing some nose bleeds in the nearby magic casters.

Turn 3 - Ogre Kingdoms
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The Ironguts charge into the Chaos Ogres signalling the Mournfang to join the combat however they are much more intrigued by the Hellcannon and decide to charge into the Warmachine.  Magic once again proves to be of little benefit as a single casting of Wildform goes onto the Mournfang before Savage Beast and Curse are both dispelled from the Chaos Ogres.  Khorne wouldn't have anything effect the outcome of this combat.  The Ogre Cavalry damage the cannon on impact and take little damage in return allowing them to stomp the daemonic alloy into oblivion.  They reform to face the Chaos battle line.    The Ironguts however get mauled, losing 4 of their number whilst dropping only 3 Chaos Ogres.  The maintain their composure however intent on killing the traitors.

Turn 3 - Warriors of Chaos
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The Warriors get into final positions before signalling their charges.  The Daemon Prince casts Final Transmutation onto the Ogres as the Beastmaster focusing on not dying ignores the spell however miraculously the Ogres remain unharmed.  Glittering Robes then goes onto the Warriors causing a massive miscast damaging the nearby Skullcrushers and wounding the Daemon Prince.  The Chaos Ogres wound each of the models a few times and lose one of their number and the combat continues in a stale mate type of standoff.

Turn 4 - Ogre Kingdoms
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The Mournfang charge the nearby Chariot of Khorne as the Ogres rush headlong into the Warriors of Tzeentch.  The Maw Butcher pops the Forbidden Rod to boost the magic phase however it doesn’t appear to do much (1 PD for 1W!).  The Beastmaster casts Wildform onto the Mournfang Cavalry and empowers himself with Savage Beasts before another Wildform is dispelled.  The Maneaters manage to drop the Chimera as a lucky shot pierces its eye and the poison begins to liquefy it’s brain.

The Beastmaster finally in his augmented state cuts down the Chaos Ogre champion before losing his own Champion but the Ogres run down the last Chaotic Ogre dispatching him.  The Mournfang however ensuring they don’t let the enemy fight back crash into the nearby Chaos Chariot cracking it’s hull in one deafening noise across the battlefield before trampling the crew and steeds alike.  Their ferociousness of the charge however shows as they continue forward slamming into the Warriors of Tzeentch already battling Ogres to the front.  An Ogre drops however but the carnage returned to the Warriors is no less impressive.  It’s enough to unhold the nerve of the Warriors and they turn and run for the tower however the Ogres cut them down before they reach the safety of the structure.  The Mournfang reform to face an anticipated threat.


Turn 4 - Warriors of Chaos
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The Skullcrushers finally lose their cool and charge into the Sabretusk nearby.  The Daemon Prince however summons all of his reserves to cast Final Transmutation against the Beastmaster however his magical defences cannot be cracked by this spell.  Golden Hounds goes off onto the Beastmaster however he’s strong enough to withstand any damage from the magic beasts.

Due to time the game is halted.

Result - Ogre Kingdoms Victory.

Conclusion:  I've heard it somewhere before on forums but you're suppose to use Ogres against great weapon wielding folk.  Naughty me for not listening.  They really did a number on the Ironguts unfortunately and with this list I don't have any room for ablative wounds so each one really hurt.  I was unlucky not to remove a whole model with impact hits and the Slaughtmasters I10 attacks before they got to swing but such is life.  Maneaters did exactly what they needed to and squeezed their battlefield control muscle moving the Chimera away from them and keeping it at bay.  I was at a bit of a cross roads when I had the opportunity to charge the Hellcannon or the Chaos Ogres with the Mournfang however I think I did the right thing.  Had I charged the Chaos Ogres it would have taken a turn to move the friendly units out of their into position and of course the Hellcannon would still be happily shooting away doing god knows what.

I was a little disappointed with the magic in this game, other than getting off Wildform I just couldn't seem to be able to cast much else which was frustrating.  Not to worry as it seems the Ogres held up their end of the deal by being resilient enough at least.

Thanks for reading.

Congrats on the win!  Unfortunate about the Chaos Ogres hoeing through your Ironguts, but as you said, striking first really helps them there.  Was looking forwards to seeing some Transformation of Kadon fury here, but beasts seems to be working well enough.

Oh wait and till you see the next game!!  :-p

How do you feel about not having an IronBlaster? Do you feel you miss it at times?  Is tge second Beast Butcher Necessary?  Do you always run your BSB with ManEaters? Why dont you give the BSB BoOP?

Congrats on the win.

Jimmy:

Great to see more battle reports.  I'll be writing this as I read it, so the usual applies.

Looking forward to see ogres beat WoC.  It's not something I regularly get to experience, so I'm looking forward to studying your methods (or learning what not to use, should this go poorly).

I am a strong proponent of the forbidden rod for ogres.  After seeing one of your lists, I started taking it myself, and I love it.  Any reason you didn't take the dispel scroll?  I don't think it's too cheesy, and it's nice for shutting down that one spell that will end you.  Also, what spell did you trade for wildform on the SM?

Why take the gold sigil sword?  Given the SM's rather crappy WS, wouldn't you be better off with the sword of striking or the fencer's blades?  You are going to be pumping up his strength due to the whole "heavy beasts casters" thing you have going on, so why not make it so that you are hitting more often?

Your core choices are interesting.  I'll be curious to see how it goes.  If you don't mind me asking, why do you have 6 of each?  When you add characters you are going to have extra guys hanging off the back.  You normally see things like a group of 5 ogres with a butcher and 7 ironguts with the SM and the BSB, or things like that, so that there are full ranks once the characters have been added.

Do you feel that you are going to be weaker without leadbelchers for additional shooting?  You only have the 12 shots from the maneaters.  Obviously, you don't want/ need to take an ironblaster, but your shooting phase seems lackluster.

Hmm, nice to see that the WoC list is running more on a theme, rather than for pure power.  You don't often see a WoC list without Nurgle stuff.

Turn 1 - Ogres:
Originally I wrote something about how I wouldn't have buffed the mournfang, since they were way off on the flank, but then I scrolled down and saw that the hellcannon actually shot the mournfang.  Any idea why the mournfang were targeted?  I would think that targetting one of the infantry groups would be more effective, especially since they are more grouped up and thus you are more likely to hit something even with a bad scatter.

Turn 2: WoC:

Ouch.  Those are some NASTY looking chaos ogres.  Still, it is good that there is only glittering robes, rather than enchanted blades.  Ironguts still should be able to rip them apart even with the buff.  Still, why didn't he charge in with the ogres?  It doesn't appear that the extra maneuvering did anything to help his cause, so he may as well get the impact hits.

Turn 3: Ogres

How did the mournfang manage to kill the hellcannon?  Doesn't that thing have tough 8 or something ridiculous like that?  Also, it doesn't look like the sabretusks are doing anything this game.

Turn 3: WoC

I can't tell you how weird it is to see that the majority of WoC units are not in melee combat by the 3rd turn.  Also unbelievable: the demon prince miscasting and actually taking a wound.  Those chaos ogres are REALLY resilient.

By the end of the game, it looks like only 1 of your 3 sabretusks actually did anything.  Did the maneaters do much beyond taking out the chimera?

Regarding the ogres against the great weapon wielding chaos ogres: I would disagree in this case.  Normally you want ogres against them due to ogres being cheaper per wound.  In this case, though, the chaos ogres were consistently getting additional armor.  Trying to fight them with regular ogres would have resulted in a lot of dead ogres and very few wounds being returned.  Regular ogres are terrible against anything with armor.

Definitely a good report.  I'm looking forward to your responses and to your future reports.

Thanks for the comments Gents.

@Tyrant Grix – check out the initial army list here with some breakdown which may answer some of your questions:  http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=28311.0

I do miss the Ironblaster however it’s not the end of the world without it.  I think people freak out when they don’t have it and I believe you make the most gains in life when you’re at an undesirable position and/or uncomfortable.

Is the second Beast Butcher necessary?  Well let’s look into that question in a bit of depth.  I run this list purely for garage hammer games so yes based on my theme then of course it’s necessary.  Is it however the most optimal use of points?  Probably not however I like it currently and when Savage Beasts goes through I thank the Maw for packing him.

That’s the first time the BSB has gone with the Maneaters, normally they go solo with no characters.  Pistols would be good however he’s got crumby BS (in comparison) and secondly I’m a bit tight on points already (hence the light armour!).

@LawGnome – Thanks for the comments mate!  I certainly love the Forbidden Rod and it’s fast becoming a staple in my Ogre lists.  I’m sure I dropped Flock of Doom for Wildform.

Gold Sigil Sword is for a number of reasons but I have been keeping an eye on the sword of striking for sure but hear me out.  It’s nice to hit before the enemy and especially when a sneaky Savage Beasts goes through or fighting elves to deny re-rolls at least.

Core choices are simply 6 strong because I get very bored of seeing the large blocks of Ogres cruising around.  The idea of 6 I think is to be the most effective as possible whilst being as lean as possible.

Shooting or lack of is certainly a sore point on the list, I need to be very switched on in terms of taking out enemy re-directors/chaff extremely quickly with shooting/magic and even using the core blocks to a degree.  There is an opportunity to drop the Maneaters for 10 Leadbelchers so that’s something for me to think about but I lose far more than I gain I feel.

Turn 1 – MFC were targeted simply because they’re the most dangerous threat to the Warriors and being a multiwound stone thrower it’s got the ability to not only 1 shot a single model but cause a panic test away from the general as well.

Turn 2 – I don’t know however I would guess that he didn’t charge because then it would have been guaranteed that the Mournfang would have joined in the fight?

Turn 3 – Hellcannon is T6 so I was wounding it on 4’s with Wildform up.  I think impact hits did 3-4 wounds to it from memory and the remaining riders picked it off.  Yes the Chaos Ogres made me sad!!  Granted the Sabretusks didn’t do a hell of a lot but they also didn’t get killed which is as equally as important.  They were in prime position to get in the way if I felt it necessary and that only happened once with the Skullcrushers.  On the Maneaters, this game the primary goal was to take out the Chimera.  Next turn they could have been out of the tower and joining the fray.

On the Ogres vs Chaos Ogres you must remember had this happened then they would have been the focus of the spells making them a bit more effective so whilst your theory is solid in practical terms it may have been very different.

On the warriors – I told my brother after the game every time that he’s defeated me it’s because he works all of his units at once rather than trying to 1-on-1 me.  Warriors might be big and strong but they still need support.  No doubt next game will be interesting against him!

Thanks for the comments once again.