40k fluff question

In another thread about Ganymede's orc sculpt, orc reproduction came up (again), and Autumna made a comment about the lizardmen being the captured species of the Necrons. Which was a surprise to me, as I've always thought that the Old Ones who created the lizardmen were early Eldar. So rather than PM him about it I decided to make it public, because if I have the question some one else mght.
So Autumna, what did you mean by "but I can't wait until they actually come out and blatantly say that the Lizardmen from Fantasy are the "caputerd" species from the Necrons in 40K."? Take in mind that I'm not a Necron fluff expert.

That is old-school fluff, back with when the Snotlings were the Brain Boys who created the rest of the ork race then got stupid again when the bigger orks ate up all the magic mushrooms that made Snotlings smart.

Modern fluff clearly shows the Old Ones in Warhammer 40k are not lizardfolks. Whatever they were, they are gone. In fact, the Eldar libraries name them as Gods and the most ancient reproductions show the birth of the modern sentient species by the Gods as infants in artificial wombs. Fluff says the Old Ones made the Orkoids and the Eldar mutually complementary species built to fight Necrons; humans were made the same way but never were 'perfected' and so were managed by the warp-empowered shamans until they all suicided and were reborn in one body as the nascent Emperor in about 8000 BC in what is now Turkey.

Each species was designed to exploit the limitations of the Necron, who have no presence in the Warp.

Of course, time changes all things, and the warp is now corrupted by Chaos, most significantly as the Eye of Terror. It appears the careful design of the Eldar was, in the end, flawed.

Nobody quite knows what to do with the Tau. They have undergone massive physical and social evolution over an extremely short period of time, pointing to the hand of an Old One, but there appears no information in the fluff about where they came from.

In another thread about Ganymede's orc sculpt, orc reproduction came up (again), and Autumna made a comment about the lizardmen being the captured species of the Necrons. Which was a surprise to me, as I've always thought that the Old Ones who created the lizardmen were early Eldar. So rather than PM him about it I decided to make it public, because if I have the question some one else mght.
So Autumna, what did you mean by "but I can't wait until they actually come out and blatantly say that the Lizardmen from Fantasy are the "caputerd" species from the Necrons in 40K."? Take in mind that I'm not a Necron fluff expert.

I'll start this off by saying that of all my time playing in the Warhammer field of eras nothing has intrigued me more then the intriguing crossover from Warhammer 40K to Warhammer Fantasy (and vice versa).

There is a story either in the Lizardmen current Army Book (in the front of the book) or in the Warhammer 6th Edition MRB that tells a story of the Lizardmen witnessing a tremendous sight as metallic ships came from the skies and set before them. It's a decently long short story, but ends at pretty much that w/ no detail as to what happened after these ships appeared.

The other connection is to the Necrons and their numerous mention of The Old Ones, a common name for the Slann in Warhammer: Fantasy.

Too much to be JUST coincidence. The Necrons also were known to have been a race known for their numbers and their powers. Lizardman, much?

Alright, I'm bored and did a bit more of a background check:

~ The "Slann" were an original race for Warhammer 40K back in the Rogue Trade era of editions. The models can be viewed here:

http://www.solegends.com/citrt/tsf18spaceslann.htm

~ The 3rd Edition BBB contains fluff stating that the Slann brought the Ork and Eldar races into being and battled against the C'tan back before the Space Marines and their precious vegetable even existed.

~ The story I mentioned above may indeed be in the Warhammer 40K: Necron Codex. There is constant talk of the Slann(i) through out the Codex.

~ For some of you that may state that, "Well, if the Fantasy armies are essentially transferred over from Warhammer to 40K, what about the Skaven and the Dwarves? Skaven are here... Just not doing so well. They're the Hrud. (Take a look at the species pictured in the 3rd Edition BBB.) And as far as the Dwarves go... I'm not getting into that. It's been beaten to death.

The other connection is to the Necrons and their numerous mention of The Old Ones, a common name for the Slann in Warhammer: Fantasy.

The Slann were created by the Old Ones, as a brain race class for their construction crews (IIRC). Though the Slann might be called Old Ones (though I don't think I've ever heard that), it is incorrect to say so.

I remember hearing from and old-school background nut that the "younger" races were created to function together by the old-ones... from what i know he got this from before necrons were bought in to 40k so i think it was to counteract the rising tyranid threat but now of course with the necron background set as the c'tan being rivals of the old ones i'd assume it was to counteract the star gods

Essentially the eldar with their grasp on technology and tendancies toward perfection as a kind of designing/ruling class
Humans with numbers and tendancies towards adaption, faith and mass production as a worker class
And orks as the perfect warrior class, resiliant, war-like, stong, self-reproducing, genetic knowledge for battlefield repairs (both mechanical and medical)

I'm pretty sure the tyranids are a relatively new addition to the 40k universe, and came in long after the Old Ones left. But I'm no 'nid expert.

I'm pretty sure the tyranids are a relatively new addition to the 40k universe, and came in long after the Old Ones left. But I'm no 'nid expert.

The Tyranid were created by the Necrons and things got out of hand. The Hive Mind formed and the Necrons/C'Tan lost contol.

As far as i know there is no link between fantasy and 40k, this would be stupid as it would mean that the entire human race lost the ability to cast magic? Also the 40k fluff has changed a lot so referring to older codex's and models means nothing (what happened to the Stunties?) so its really only whats in the latest codex's that matter.

Also i cannot find any proof that Tyranids were made by the Necrons, as in their fluff it says they came from a different universe type place that no one else has been to yet.

In my opinion 40k and fantasy have no links and I remember reading something in a white dwarf that said just that, I would hunt for it but we have like 200 white dwarfs at home and I have read everyone of them and i really don't have that sort of time.

I've never heard anything about the nids being created by anyone... let alone one of the lower races (which the necrontyr were before the c'tan stepped in)... where's that bit of fluff come from Autumna

Reg06: The nids were first introduced through genestealers, thena localised thing on the Tyran system iirc, then the big one Istvaan IV... no real indication of how long they've been about as they have come from well beyond the known universe of the imperium but apparently they're an incredibly old race that's always been a potential threat... one of those "no-one really knows for sure" things that GW love

And GW denies they are linked, but continues to release fluff that does otherwise. The Necron bit about the Tyranids was in a White Dwarf way back when. I wanna say at least three years.

Oh, and... Warhammer Magic = 40K Psychics

the 40k/fantasy crossover is a hell of a debate... i'm personally in the "backwater world in the eye of terror = fantasy world" camp but i've heard alot of good arguments both ways over the years

i'll have to have a dig about the nid/necron link... that's interesting as its something i'd not heard ever mentioned... if you can find a link or something please let me know

This is coming directly from memories of the codex imperialis from 2nd ed....memories not a quote!

Tyranids are from 2 galaxies over, they stripped thier galaxy without contention, then through use of sleeper style hiveships, (no warp drives) they spread out and found the next galaxy teeming with life, and again they stripped the entire galaxy without any trouble. Then in their quest to sate their hunger they found the milkyway i mean the 40k galaxy (shhh) and have encountered resistance in the form of the advanced races that inhabit our galaxy, the eldar, the orks, the imperium, and have thus ar been unable to consume them entirely...

wheres the necrons in that?

Syc

Considering three years ago wasn't 2nd Edition, I'm sure you can follow.

Considering three years ago wasn't 2nd Edition, I'm sure you can follow.

I'm pretty sure the tyranid codex before the most recent one told of the 'nids coming from a foreign galaxy.

Nids have showed up from somewhere far away, people (fake, fictionous people in the nid codex) think they may just be a scouting force for the humungo big big group of nids about to show up.

That would make a nice story, doomsday when the nids show up...

Back to topic: The eldar were created by the old ones when they (the old ones)) were beaten back by the C'Tan to some corner, then when they (the C'tan) moved in for the kill the eldar stopped 'em. Orcs may have been created for the same reason, I'm not quite sure about them.

This is all from memory, the "original" pieces I'm remembering can be found here: http://z10.invisionfree.com/Old_World_Chronicles/index.php?showtopic=1002

And a heckload of stuff can be found here: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page