Ogre Kingdoms Vs Vampire Counts

Hragged date unknown

Played against Vampire Counts? Share your knowledge on how to beat them here.

Archived advice can be found by clicking here. Please note, the tips within Archive threads may no longer be relevant due to the existence of newer army rules and/or newer Warhammer editions.

Lazyseer date unknown

Vampire counts are very easy to beat below 2000 pts because he can't get a Vampire Lord. Basic Bulls hit on 3's against his basic troops and will utterly crush most of his army. Gouls are very useful to the ogre player. If you charge them you will mince them and then overrun behind his army. The biggest threat is the unit the Vampire lord is in. If he is in a unit of grave guard hit them in the flanks. Don't charge him in the front, except if you have Rhinox Riders or maneaters with a Tyrant icon_lol

. Lead belchers and scraplaunchers can be useful for attacking the unit the Lord is in. Black Knights are very dangerous but puting a small bull unit in there path and then fleeing will allow you to charge them. Consider a 3 man Yettie unit to kill off nasty spirit creatures.

The magic of the vampire counts can be good, but an ogre army with 3 butchers or a slaughter master should be able to dispell alot of it. If your getting ready to charge the vampire lord with your tyrant make sure you have a wyrd stone necklace and trollguts on his unit, your going to need it.

I love Gnomes...

... Dead Gnomes

Wildcard date unknown

I'm afraid I'm going to disagree with a little of Lazyseer's advice

When facing vampire counts, let's look at the phase by phase matchup:

Movement phase - we move faster on average. vampire counts have access to cavalry units (wolves, black knights) which are speedier, but unless such units are large and upgraded with characters/banners, it's nothing you can't weather.

in the movement phase, ogres have the edge. This can be modified by the ability of VC to rob us of speed by raising march blocking units behind our lines - but that's in the magic phase...

Magic phase - this is the one you have to worry about. No matter what you do at any points level, vampire counts can lay down more power and dispel dice than we can. Not to mention all those choice and tasty bound items they pack. The tactical flow of the game will hinge on beng able of successfully and efficiently negotiate this phase.

Shooting phase - negligible for both sides

Close Combat - we negate the fear effects of the undead with our own, robbing them of a major advantge. In combat, not only should we have the charge, we can lay down the attacks to smash them to bits. They can't run away, so can't do anything tricky either.

Definate advantage to the ogres - plus, once we're in combat, less spells happen.

All the tactical ability of VC comes from its magic. This is how it can get into combat (magical movement), whittle down units (magic missile), get flanking/march bocking/scouting units (invocation) and heal the characters (invocation again).

since the magic phase relies on the luck of the dice and a certain amount of pscholog on the part of the VC player, you have to be aware of the probabilities and psych-tricks involved.

for the magic missile - just suck it up and take the pain, dispel only if you feel you have to.

magical move spell - don't forget that this comes in bound form too! don't forget that fleeing is still an option if it will leave you in a better tactical position later. Some VC units will try to tar-pit you by running a unit into your hammer, and then trying to expand it with invocations.

which brings us on to the best, and most vital spell, in the VC repetoire - invocation of nehek. This is the spell you should be trying to stop and brining out those scrolls for. without this spell, vc armies are devoid of tactical opportunities - jsut hope they don't keep getting irresistable force.

grave guard + vampire count: I disagree that you need an uber-unit to take this apart - just charge the tyrant in and challenge (if its a blooddragon, so much the better as they can't refuse!).

If you get a chance to assassinate the general of a VC army, you take it - no questions asked! Doing this WILL win you the game. If you can't challenge, get into base contact and just allocate attacks - but he is the primary target all game long.

oh, and don't discount the ability of gorgers to do this job - killing blow is fun! If you can't get to the general, taing out any other necromancers is the next best thing to weaken his only strong phase, the magic phase, that much more.

Stronghold Nemesis Champion

Record - (99 played) 89 wins, 9 losses, 1 draw

(my pet gnoblars are named John, Paul, George, Ringo and Yoko................Larry, Curly and Mo!)

GREASUS TOEBITER date unknown

ill be playing a friend this weekend a 3000 pt game. and he has noticed in the back of the warhammer rule book where they have a list of all the army stats that spirit host and banshees are now toughness 7.

and knowing my friend he will bring lots of these two units. along with Zacharias and he wants me to bring
Greasus. any tips?

Corai date unknown

Tell your friend he's quite wrong. the stats at the back of the warhammer book do not take into account any of the unit special rules, or points costs. they're just there to give beginners a chance to use some models they may already have. There is no space to explain ethereal, for example, so their toughness is jacked up to compensate and replicate their difficulty to kill. Unless otherwise stated, the army book always supercedes the rulebook so his ethereal creatures appear as they are in their army book.

Thanks
Corai

Ashamed I didn't think of it before, I've renamed my Pet Gnoblar's Hannibal, Face, B.A., Murdock and Sam & Al Quincy, Doctor Sloan and Horatio

rocdocta date unknown

i agree with wildcard for a lot of things. however some points:

movement...to me, its not how fast you can move, but the ability to move where you want that provides an edge. you may set up a tricky trap, luring a unit and leaving it stranded, but what happens when the vamp raises a new unit of zombies directly in front of your unit so that you are redirected away? with 3 spell casters, very good chance of working.

yes skellies move 4 when the general is more than 12 in away, but i like the infantry to march slowly as it gives me more time to raise dudes.

combat...yes ogres will do a lot of damage in the first turn. we expect that. thats why we then raise more dudes up to replace them and maybe a new unit in the rear for the bonus. if i expect to be charged, i never put my combat monsters in the first unit to be engaged.

invocation makes the VC list playable and a very disruptive list. the true horror of playing against VC is that it makes you very reactive. my fav trick is to march my general 14 in forwards and create a new unit of zombies behind someones lines. sure they are just zombies but in 1 turn they can grow from 5 to 20 or 30(with alot of luck)!

all the bloodlines have their strengths. i play lahmians as they are poorly understood and a very powerful list. my lord character always goes first, has init 10, 5 str 5 attacks -3 armour, plus 1 auto str 5 hit, 5+ ward save and a 2+ save from first wound in combat (reflected back to oppo)!

chris

Wildcard date unknown

I'd just love you to move your general 14" towards my army - in fact, I'd be whooping with glee.

excellent charge opportunities for my tyrant - or indeed multiple units of ironguts/yhetees who will kill or beat him on combat res and crumble the army on turn 1.

suits me fine icon_smile

normally I'm up against 4 spellcasters when I face VC - even more dice - and each 1 will have the invocation. With 2-3 scrolls and 5 dispel dice I seem to be able to counter the things that really matter. Its all about picking the correct targets for those scrolls.

check out a few of my battle reports vs. VC in the tales of conquest section.

Stronghold Nemesis Champion

Record - (99 played) 89 wins, 9 losses, 1 draw

(my pet gnoblars are named John, Paul, George, Ringo and Yoko................Larry, Curly and Mo!)

Bashuk date unknown

My main opponent is a Blood Dragon VC player (3000 point games) who has taken to fielding one huge unit of black knights, about 16 or so (with a vampire count inside), another small unit of 7, and a Blood Dragon Vampire Lord on a zombie dragon. Thrown into this mix are two banshees, two groups of 10 ghouls, and about 4 packs of 5 dire wolves. He also uses bats to fly behind units that are going to be engaged in close combat to destroy them in the flee into the bats.

I have been trying to beat this combination for a while, but from what I have experienced, my Tyrant is the only thing that has a chance against the Lord on zombie dragon (-1 to hit :/), however given its mobility if he does not feel like fighting the Tyrant, the tyrant will never be able to engage him. Previously he was keen to fight my lord, however after noticing I would just attack the zombie dragon for easy combat resolution, he avoids him now. On the other side is the huge black knight regiment that pretty much bulldozes through my lines. The smaller knight squad and wolves are used as contant flanking threats.

What would you chaps suggest against an army such as this? Not much information out on fighting against an elite VC army as opposed to shambling hordes. Thanks for any help icon_smile

Wildcard date unknown

this type of army is a different proposition for Ogres to deal with. The upside is that you have less magic coming your way each turn as he's dropped the points into other things, and fields less characters as a result.

at 3000 points, ogres have a lot of options, not the least being a slaughtermaster (possibly even skragg if so inclined). The main issue for you here though is countering his speed and mobility that his list presents.

My suggestions would tend to be towards

1) a butcher-heavy build, firing the bangstick and multiple bonecrunchers at the fast cav and bats - buffing IG units too.

2) lots of small units - you'll have to bait and counter-charge his knights, going 2 on 1 (or better) to beat them.

3) get as much speed as possible - the more mobile you are the better, so yhetees would also be recommended. Good for killing banshees too.

4) tie up the banshees with trappers - I love doing this and they often make their points back too.

5) ignore the dragon, smash everything else until you're read to deal.

6) consider a unir of 3 bull rhinox riders - even a unit of 16 black knights can crumble to a hit from something like that, and it'll really give your opponent something to worry about.

Stronghold Nemesis Champion

Record - (99 played) 89 wins, 9 losses, 1 draw

(my pet gnoblars are named John, Paul, George, Ringo and Yoko................Larry, Curly and Mo!)

Mawchild date unknown

Kill the general, then magic users and banshees everything else can then be destroyed at leisure. If you can persuade them to charge, a 25 strong, ranked up unit of gnoblars will kill a banshee due to combat res. Bring a gorger as they are very handy for killing any solo necromancers lurking at the back of the battlefield. Lastly try not to get bogged down by none point scoring units of zombies or skeletons, nothing worse than when you can't quite finish them off in one turn and they keep getting replenished, so much more annoying than a swarm.

Pudge date unknown

i tied up 2 banshees with some gnoblar trappers for 2 and a half turns. totally worth the points. 48 points ties up 180. eventually i got a hunter charge in to wipe up the mess there left over. i gave him the greyback pelt and the armor piercing sword so i was able to really smash him in combat relatively quickly.

skeletons are a total joke vs. ironguts. if they have spears, then it gets a tad interesting. if you can manage to get trollguts off, its like gg. regeneration and MR2. regen really saves the day if they get to swing back.

most of the time i see their head vamp challenging, and only with my tyrant would i consider. many times ill decline it, just because i know i will own the combat res, having the impact hits of 4 people, and having 3 ironguts swing, with a banner. thats awesome power vs. ranked skellies, even if he is in a huge unit.

the black knights are nasty indeed. the armor saves on cav really bug me. if you swing do impact hits, and swing in with ironguts, you should be doing fine.

but banshees, nasty. yhetees are great counters, or trappers.

rocdocta date unknown

@WILDCARD wooping with glee? well thats probably a bad thing for you to do. until you see what moving up really does to your game plan.

there is no way that i would move my general within your charge range. please give me some credit. what i would do is try and raise zombies at an angle to your unit. sure you may try and dispell but then you may not. even the old raise them behind your line to march block/ destroy fleeing dudes is grand. every turn i can put off combat is another 1-4 invocations. which (if very lucky for me) may be 8d6+8 (average 36 or 9 to 56) more zombies per turn.

@pudge yes skellies are a joke in a straight up battle with anything (even gnoblars!) but if VC can add to the unit and/ or raise new units in the rear, then its a whole new ball game. i keep the cursed book nearby (-1 to hit in combat) so it swings the battle in my favour.

oh and last weekend in a tournament 1 unit of skellies ran down 2 treemen in consecutive rounds. yes i was very lucky but it goes to show the VC fav of static CR still works.

its a simple tactic that works very well. i find OK an interesting army to face, but VC are built to take down elite MSU forces. we try and bog down your line and pick our fights when we want them (altho it doesnt always come off like that...)

cheers
chris

Wildcard date unknown

I might give you some credit, but you'd be amazed (and probably a bit dissappointed) with all those VC players out there who do move within chrage range - or at least think they are out of it and forget about things like longstrider....
As for invocation, they are the only spell I ever bother to dispel against VC unless immediate tactics dictate otherwise (rare) - after all, its the only tactical edge you have. scroll, scroll and scroll again! icon_smile

I make as sure as I can that they don't work.

don't forget that cursed book has a very limited range (6") and only effects models in that range, not units clipped by it - and often this means many ogre models are just going to ignore it, given the size of ogre bases.

I'll not say that VC can't win battles, I'll just say that I've faced them over 20 times with ogres and only lost once and let the numbers speak for themselves.

Stronghold Nemesis Champion

Record - (99 played) 89 wins, 9 losses, 1 draw

(my pet gnoblars are named John, Paul, George, Ringo and Yoko................Larry, Curly and Mo!)

rocdocta date unknown

ah longstrider, good times... my brother plays OK. yes, some VC players think that vamps are un stoppable machines that you just point and shoot. in all my games i think i have only ever had 2 or 3 vamp lords ever actually killed from wounds. but many popped due to CR. i find VC to be an army that you need discipline and timing. unsupported undead units almost explode vs the living, whereas timed right, they mow down the best of them.

you were saying that the only tac advantage the VC have was invoke, how do you feel about the magic move? an overlooked spell is the hand of dust in conjunction with the hellish vigour spell. my necro chased a greater daemon around cos 1 hit and it was dead, no ward save (being a daemon). it was absurd. i have almost given up on the 2d6 str 4 hits. never roll well.

the rod of flaming skulls has produced some good results for me. if i see a wounded bull unit away from the general, i target it with this beauty. should see what it does to trolls panic tests ahoy...

cheers
chris

Pudge date unknown

@ rocdocta

i know static combat is where VC really shines. but if the unit is usually at what, 20, you can do about 3-5 wounds a turn, they do like... 1 back? they usually wont have a banner, and u will. they will have like 2 ranks and out number, u have a musician, and u did impact hits. so combat should be yours on the charge turn for sure. the next turn, assuming they got off an invocation of nehek, then it can sway against u. but if you win combat by like 3-4, which you should on the charge turn, they should lose 2 ranks and be down by like 10 or more.

plus, it all depends on A) your army composition and B) theres.

A) i usually run 3 butcher lists, and about 3-4 scrolls now. following bretonnian theories on heavy combat armies.
B) if they have like 3 wizards and a lama thing, then your still in stable shape. an you have scrolls and dispel dice.

maybe its just cause the VC guy i play is a moron and only runs like 2 units of skeletons. and uses them improperly

Wildcard date unknown

i find VC to be an army that you need discipline and timing. unsupported undead units almost explode vs the living, whereas timed right, they mow down the best of them.

totally agree, running dead guys needs absolute discipline timing and I'll add patience to that too icon_smile

you were saying that the only tac advantage the VC have was invoke, how do you feel about the magic move?
the rod of flaming skulls has produced some good results for me. if i see a wounded bull unit away from the general, i target it with this beauty. should see what it does to trolls panic tests ahoy...

this is where my proviso (unless immediate tactics dictate otherwise) comes in icon_smile

The magical move can be nasty, and under the right circumstances I'll try to stop that too. However, I won't always try to stop it. I do a fair bit of running away and generally I make sure that any unit that might suffer such a charge can run away from it and have a counter charge lined up for it. Basically I take account of the possibility of it in my deployment and movement if my opponent rolled the spell.

It is in the counter/flank charge where MSU ogres shines against undead - If I hit your flanks and deprive you of your rank bonus, you are simply not going to win any combats - you'll have lost a massive chunk of your static CR and when it comes to killing stuff the ogres just do it far better than zombies or skellies. All I then have to do is keep the invocations off my back and its all good.

the hand of dust/vigor thing is nasty - someone tried it on my tyrant recently, got irresistable force on the vigor and I failed to dispel the hand of dust (this was turn 6 and I'd run out of scrolls) - he hits, but my wyrdstone necklace earned its points back icon_smile

The vamp then got himself tenderised. It can work but won't win a battle for you. In my example, if he'd been successful it would have been his only kill of a 2000 point game. As it turned out, I killed everything he had and didn't lose a single model doing it...

rod of flaming skulls is even nastier against yhetees - and see's more points go running if its sucessful too.

to sum up though, both VC and OK are close comabt armies - one tries to win through CR, one through kills - and the OK troops with their higher weapon skill, more wounds, more attacks for the frontage, impact hits and immunity to fear (a big VC weapon) are a better comabt troop. It becomes a battle of breaking the CR of the undead through flanking (yhetees or MSU), rear hits (gorgers) before CR can count agaisnt you - and using the butchers (dispel dice and scrolls) to keep the vamps from adding more troops to conteract your kills.

Stronghold Nemesis Champion

Record - (99 played) 89 wins, 9 losses, 1 draw

(my pet gnoblars are named John, Paul, George, Ringo and Yoko................Larry, Curly and Mo!)

rocdocta date unknown

@pudge with bull charge, do you find it very useful? if i cant charge an ogre unit, i move as close to them as possible to prevent the impact hits. to use an example of a ranked up skellie unit vs the same cost in bulls. i give mine standard and muso, light armour shield hand weapon. maybe the VC around here are different but only new raised units dont have standards. but anyway...

but a disclaimer i dont have the OK army book, 4 bulls with 4 attacks vs 20 skellies with standard and muso.
lets say OK charge.
with impact hits
16 attacks=11 hits+ 4 impact hits=10 wounds save 4= 6 dead. no skellies strike back now have 14 left
CR
OK 1 standard, 5 wounds = CR7
skellies 1 standard, 3 ranks, outnumber = CR5. lose by 2 and 2 skellie pops

turn 2 is where it gets hard to work out cos an unsupported skellie unit is doomed. but if you put just 1 invoke into it (2d6 =7 average) then the unit is back to where it started. so for intents and purposes i will say that if i cant add to the unit it will pop eventually but lets say that i rolled ok and pull it off...
OK 16 attacks = 11 hits = 7 wounds = 5 dead
OK = 6 CR
skellies = 5 CR

what i am trying to illustrate is that with 2 hand weapons and gaining the bull charge, the ogres are barely managing to hold on against magically supported skellies. from the front. if the ogres stuff 1 round of combat or if a VC heavy hitter arrives, they are in trouble. most VC run 3 casters so there is a good chance of adding to units. this is why i love the cursed book.

@ wild card totally agree with you. my main atctic vs the OK? sit back on my deployment edge and raise raise raise!

cheers
chris

Wildcard date unknown

@ wild card totally agree with you. my main atctic vs the OK? sit back on my deployment edge and raise raise raise!

Yep, sounds very, very familiar icon_biggrin

This is why I love my gorgers/trappers/yhetees/longstrider list - I gotta clear all that ground before you double the size of your army - but also gotta stop myself getting march blocked by unit raised behind my lines too. At least the extra speed gives me a bit more chance to do it.

In a lot of games against VC, the only time I ever see the enemy units mvoe is when they walk another 2" backwards to try and bu and extra turn of magic icon_frown

Stronghold Nemesis Champion

Record - (99 played) 89 wins, 9 losses, 1 draw

(my pet gnoblars are named John, Paul, George, Ringo and Yoko................Larry, Curly and Mo!)

dude date unknown

If you're fighting against the vampire counts, you should try to kill the general as fast as possible, because his army will crumble.
His ethereals (banshee, wraith, spirit host) can only be attacked with magic attacks, but they can be defeated if you win combat resolution. You should try to keep your ogres together that the skeletons and zombies don't outnumber you.

Pudge date unknown

@ rocdocta

dude impact hits make ogres amazing. auto-hits, wounding rank and file troops on 3s. additionally, even if you slam some naked bulls up vs. rank and file troops, your ogre clubs swing and its -2 to their armor. usually thatll doit.

skeletons can still outnumber you, since the fear causing doesnt auto break doesnt effect us right? since we cause fear.

as for ethereals, butcher with siegebreaker? or brusier with his weapon, or tyrant, yhetees work very well. banshees are solo units, spirit hosts only run at like 8 unit str. so out numbering is easy to do. gnoblars can probably break a banshee.

LOT1LOE date unknown

@ Pudge

Bull charge hits are not that great. Any competant player will not let you get that more that 6" charge. As an example, lets use dwarfs:

Even if you are the maximum charge distance away, they can still march 6" towards you and remove bull charge. I fthey are not facing you, chances are the march can take them out of charge range. And this is dwarfs, the slowest of the slow. Other armies will just find it even easier. The only way you could possably get it is if you charged a unit already in combat, but do to our relativly small armies and lack of static CR, you usually won't be able to move the unit out to make sure it is in the correct range before the first unit loses combat or something else comes up to mess with you. And there is always the danger of shooting, which you are very vulnerable to while just waltzing around ignoring a good combat because you want buul charge.

So, unless you happen to have a unit just be that far away from one in combat with the charge open, taking a good bit of luck I might add, you will not get it if your opponent is even halfway good.

(sorry if that was a bit off topic for this thread)

Pudge date unknown

@ Lot1Loe
if you run 3 bulls up for a screen in the front as per usual, and the dwarves move up 6 to take away the impact hits, they can still be charged by a unit to the left/right of that bull unit and if so, given the new rules, a flank charge from a big tyrant hammer on just about anything will cause the auto break test. u can probably cause 2 wounds against dwarves. their high WS can be a problem.

Wildcard date unknown

lets try and stay on topic guys!

Stronghold Nemesis Champion

Record - (99 played) 89 wins, 9 losses, 1 draw

(my pet gnoblars are named John, Paul, George, Ringo and Yoko................Larry, Curly and Mo!)

rocdocta date unknown

from my non-OK playing view point, the key to beating Vc is:

1. ranks of gnoblars. feel free to shout me down, but they are cheap and give rank/ numbers bonus. yes they also offer up easy CR but seemed like a good idea at the time...
2. magic superiority. gut magic is easy to cast but can be intimidating if it starts to add up and isnt dispelled.
3. pinning skellie blocks in place with yhetees. very frustrating when you see the unit being set up to be smashed.
4. hunt necros with suicide yhetees when the skellies are going to be engaged as they will jump out of their bodyguard units just before the attack
5. save D scrolls for the really important spell ie unit of zombies about to be raised that will divery your generals unit away from a VC general units flank.
6. run across into combat asap.
7. cannon carriers dont really do that much unless its vs a vamp/ necro by himself in the open.
8. hunters are very good necro hunters
9. remember that VC magic isnt that deadly, it mainly foces you to react to their wishes. ie new units in your rear, healed units, magic move.
10. 1 skellie would be flogged by a gnoblar, 25 with a standard and reinforcements is deadly. i have seen 2 brett units get my skellie unit down to 2 dudes left. my turn i raised another 18 back into it. frustating i have ben told...

cheers

Reddogfish77 31 Jan 2012

That vampire lord you described up to is easy... and i mean easy to deal with... wait till he casts... then use the frog spell... he is a level 1... so on a 2+ will change and then you are facing a T2 frog with no saves whatsoever with 3Ws....

how is that hard to deal with.

if he then starts putting more magic levels on him it just means his army is that much smaller...

but as i said.

easy to deal with.

pete6982 05 Feb 2012

I just whipped a VC army last week. I almost forgot in-game, but the Dragonhide banner can unleash a magic frosty attack at ethereals.

25/101 Ogre Achievements.
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Been playing Warhammer since '94. I've faced just about every army imaginable, including Chaos Dwarfs and Dogs of War. The one army I have never faced is Dark Elves.

MaanNaam 08 Feb 2012

Remember that vargheists have frenzy and they are only Ld 7.

When they leave the general/BSB bubble in turn 1 just bait them with lone sabretusks. With their high movement and swiftstride (flying) you can probably even make them overrun from the table edge and keep them out for 1 more turn.

If they stay within the general/BSB bubble then the VC player would have been better off fielding Crypt horrors as the only real tasty thing the Vargheists have going for them is their flying.

You can even deny them charges against your big blocks with clever moving of your tusks and small units of gnoblars.

Gorgers are amazing at tying up their blocks of skellies and zombies (not ghouls) for a few turns if there isn't a vampire in the unit. The T5 and unbreakable makes it really hard for them to deal with a gorger in the first round of combat if he is in the rear or flank.

P.S. I am much more afraid of big blocks of Crypt Horrors than I am of Vargheists.

There is only news. There is no good or bad.

MarkM 08 Feb 2012

I just whipped a VC army last week. I almost forgot in-game, but the Dragonhide banner can unleash a magic frosty attack at ethereals.

Perhaps your wins may be a little less frequent if you actually played by the rules

The DHB does not give magic attacks.

Mark Muslek

The thing about free advice, is that you can always ignore it

kobahl 08 Feb 2012

That vampire lord you described up to is easy... and i mean easy to deal with... wait till he casts... then use the frog spell... he is a level 1... so on a 2+ will change and then you are facing a T2 frog with no saves whatsoever with 3Ws....

how is that hard to deal with.

if he then starts putting more magic levels on him it just means his army is that much smaller...

but as i said. easy to deal with.

And if he doesn't cast with him??? I know I don't for that very reason. I can live with one less IoN casting.

ONLY IN A COLLAR CAN A OGRESS TRULY BE FREE....

TheKingInYellow 08 Feb 2012

I just whipped a VC army last week. I almost forgot in-game, but the Dragonhide banner can unleash a magic frosty attack at ethereals.
Perhaps your wins may be a little less frequent if you actually played by the rules

The DHB does not give magic attacks.

No, but it does have a breath weapon that is!

MarkM 08 Feb 2012

No, it does not. Please read the rules again. To be magical attacks have to defined as magical. They are not. It is a breath weapon with some special rules attached. That's all.

Mark Muslek

The thing about free advice, is that you can always ignore it

Bob the Butcher 08 Feb 2012

The biggest fear I would have facing a VC army would be an ethereal build.

2 x Wraiths with Banshees
2x Hexwraiths
Buffed up Black Coach Ethereal

The Banshees can really hurt our low Leadership troops
Hex Wraiths coupled with Van Hels can be nasty
Wraiths with GW's also nasty

I am thinking of 1 x 3 Yhetees as a flanker to help deal with Ethereals

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Nod_Hero 09 Feb 2012

No, it does not. Please read the rules again. To be magical attacks have to defined as magical. They are not. It is a breath weapon with some special rules attached. That's all.

Seems pretty clear in the rules to me:

Q: What are magical attacks? (p68)
A: All attacks made by spells and magic items are considered to
be magical attacks, as are all attacks that are specifically noted
as being magical attacks. Shots fired from magical items are
also considered to be magical attacks, unless their description
specifically states otherwise. Hits inflicted by rolls on the
Miscast table are treated as magical attacks.

Dragonhide Banner is a magic item, thus, magical Breath Weapon hits.

We now have 3 Vampire Counts players in our local gaming club, so my Ogres need all the help they can get against those ethereal paininthegnoblars...

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47. I'm special - field any one of the ogre special characters in your army

Bob the Butcher 09 Feb 2012

I hope you are right on the Dragonhide Banner (Magical Breath weapon) it will encourage me to try and fit it in to a Tourney list.

WC's Achievements 29/101 = 29% completed

Ogres 5:0:0 (New Book) vs. Dwarves, Empire, HE's, VC's and WE's.

2008 Nominated for: Achievements in Tactics & Strategy Ogre Stronghold

Joebungaloe 09 Feb 2012

We have hard counters to just about everything in the book these days, and for the most part they are all things youll be taking in a normal competative list anyway. Even ethereals we have ways around, with firebellies able to dish out excelent magic damage, and even are able to confer magic attacks on a unit if you roll spells well.

62/100 Ogre Cheeves

Latest: 90. They're not bloody Eagles you know! - Run a Hunter in a unit of 5 or more Sabretusks.
Currently 33W-2L-0T with the new book!
Latest Placing - NOVA Open GT (2nd)

Ghunter 09 Feb 2012

Q: What are magical attacks? (p68)
A: All attacks made by spells and magic items are considered to
be magical attacks, as are all attacks that are specifically noted
as being magical attacks. Shots fired from magical items are
also considered to be magical attacks, unless their description
specifically states otherwise. Hits inflicted by rolls on the
Miscast table are treated as magical attacks.
Dragonhide Banner is a magic item, thus, magical Breath Weapon hits.

But the DHB makes the bearer make a breath attack. The DHB is not breathing itself, thus the attacks are not magical. Can someone double check the wording of the Bretonnian lance who let the Paladin breathe? Curious to make the parallel here...

Ogre achievements: 25/101
Latest: Rambo or Conan?

Quote from: Wildcard on Feb 02, 2012, 11:22:35 AM

The only real limit on the effectiveness of gnoblars is the owner's tolerance for painting so many of them.

MaanNaam 09 Feb 2012

Doesn't the banner say the bearer may use the banner to make a breath weapon attack? In this case won't it be the banner?

Personally I don't care either way, don't really run into so much ethereal that my characters and fireballs can't take care of.

There is only news. There is no good or bad.

pete6982 09 Feb 2012

Q: What are magical attacks? (p68)
A: All attacks made by spells and magic items are considered to
be magical attacks, as are all attacks that are specifically noted
as being magical attacks. Shots fired from magical items are
also considered to be magical attacks, unless their description
specifically states otherwise. Hits inflicted by rolls on the
Miscast table are treated as magical attacks.
Dragonhide Banner is a magic item, thus, magical Breath Weapon hits.

But the DHB makes the bearer make a breath attack. The DHB is not breathing itself, thus the attacks are not magical. Can someone double check the wording of the Bretonnian lance who let the Paladin breathe? Curious to make the parallel here...

In addition, the bearer of the DHB can use it to unleash an icy blast.

Far2Casual 10 Feb 2012

Vampire Counts are now another army justifying that the best addition of our new book is indeed the Ironblaster. Ho, and my BSB is now officially wearing a 5pt Magic Sword !

Be very, very careful against those Terrorgheists fellow Tyrants. They hurt us, a lot

Ogre achievements unlocked : 50/101

Phazael 10 Feb 2012

Terrorgheists bother my Daemon list a lot more than my Ogre one. Worst case scenario is I lose an Ogre out of the unit in a shooting phase, but I have yet to see these things make it out of their own deployment zones alive against me in three games. Flaming Poison Pistoleaters with dual Ironblasters backing them up solve a lot of problems my Ogres used to have......

668 The Neighbor of the Beast

Shadowlord 10 Feb 2012

Terrorgheists? Have they become harder with the new book compared to the WD version (not at home so I can't check)?

That one died all the time by my Ogres and now they should die even faster with our arsenal.

My hood is my castle...

Phazael 10 Feb 2012

They are the same, but you will not see them in most cookie cutter armies. Dual Mortis Engine is all the rage right now......

668 The Neighbor of the Beast

Johnny-Crass 10 Feb 2012

Right now I am running heavy screaming heavy ethereal and it is doing grand against ogres. Terrorghiests marching up first turn and screaming down mournfang have just been brilliant.

Due to my opinion on hellheart vs mortis engine I will not be running even one.

And since open list is played out here the frog scroll does not work very well

Phazael 10 Feb 2012

No one is forcing you to take the tome upgrade on the engine and no one around here does. They just take two for the AE damage radiation and army wide 5+ regeneration the pair confer.

As for this matchup, my army is chock full of flaming attacks and no mournfangs so I have had zero problems with VC in the new book, aside from the killy hand to hand generals, but Rockeye lets me pick the perfect matchup for that confrontation.

668 The Neighbor of the Beast

MaanNaam 11 Feb 2012

Between a big block of IG, a big block of poison ME (with guns) and a flame banner BSB hopping between units I haven't had much issues with VC lately. Those units backed by lvl 4 with LotGM is amazing.

There is only news. There is no good or bad.

Ard Boy 21 Feb 2012

Played a game last weekend against Vampire Counts, and it wasn't fun.
I faced a terrorgheist with a ghoul on it , a"normal" terrorgheist , mortis engine ,two corps carts, 60 skeletons and i think two blocks of zombies totalling them around 70. There were also 3 necromancers and one vampire lord. The terrorgheist with the goul king on it just ate my army and I couldn't do anything about it. After 6 turns of putting away my ogres in their boxes the only thing left was my tyrant. It was a very onesided game with no fun at all.
One advice for my fellow ogres : watch out for terrorgheist (schriek attack, regeneration and hard as hell) and certainly avoid the one with the goul king( both have schriek attack, both have regeneration and both are hard as hell and have a -1 to your leadership).Oh yeah they both fly and tend to land BEHIND your troops.
Very very disapointing game

Record : 12/0/6

kobahl 21 Feb 2012

They can be tough. But it sounds like you didn't have the tools to deal with him. What was in your list? His ghoul king had to have the skabscrath weapon to have a shriek attack. Leaving him only 25 points for other magic. ME's with BoH and the flaming banner should be able to pluck him off the critter. No save for regen and with poison he has only 3 wounds. Did you have any IB's? One cannon shot after hitting him with the ME's should see him off. Was his Vamp Lord the ghoul king? If so if he was flying around behind your lines his army is moving REALLY slowly towards you since they can't march without him. And every wound you do to the TG's lowers what they get to add to the shriek roll.

ONLY IN A COLLAR CAN A OGRESS TRULY BE FREE....

Ard Boy 21 Feb 2012

I fielded an IG unit of 8 and within it I had a lvl4 SM a Tyrant and a BSB with the banner that gives you flaming attacks, a unit of 7 bulls with a firebelly in it , a unit of six mournfangs with the dragonhide banner, 3 Yettees (because normally he fields ethereals) and a unit of 40 gnoblars. I must admit it is a very CC oriented army but against my other opponents it works well.I don't think that his goul king was his general, he had a necromancer as general.He had a vamp lord ( or hero?) on horse integrated in his unit of skeletons.Oh I almost forgot I also field 6ME with an ogre pistol and the scouts and stubborn rule, and the standard of discipline.

Record : 12/0/6

Gutlord Inquisitor 21 Feb 2012

Ogres are a pretty nasty matchup for the new VC. I don't think we'll really have to worry a lot. However, here's the lessons I've taken from my recent games against them:

- Taking out the Mortis Engine early on is a bonus. Flaming Sword on an Ironblaster or Leadbelchers will help. Watch the turn number. If you kill a Mortis Engine late game (turns 4+), you could end up losing a lot more than the vamp player. Also keep an eye out for doubles on the Mortis Engine roll. There are so many rules for that damn thing that it's easy for a Vamp player to forget (similar to watching for doubles/triples on Abomb movement). Additionally, the Corpse Carts have to die.

- Etherial-heavy builds are a real paper-rock-scissors problem. I feel a couple of 5-point magic weapons around will help. The DHB is a good choice for this (I typically don't run it as it's far too expensive for my liking). The way I see it is that its attacks are magical per the FAQ. Certainly it's made me want to put in a few more sources of magical attacks. That said, the Etherial heavy build is so vulnerable to certain armies (e.g. daemons) so I don't expect to see it as a tournament staple, at least not from the top players. I'm a big fan of the Sword of Anti-Heroes in general so I recommend it if you have the points.

- You can grind through zombies. No matter how much the Vamp thinks he can raise, a bunch of angry ogres will kill them. Just watch out for being held up just long enough.

- Hellheart is so vicious against Vamp players it's not funny. Even without the Mortis Book. Recommend against taking it versus vampire players because it can ruin the game for them.

- Remember the following: Invokation is always bubble effect. Remember the Lore Attribute. Remember that if he gets any bubble effects off, they'll trigger Corpse Carts and the Corpse Cart bubble can extend beyond the original bubble. There are so many bubbles in the Vamp army now...

- Grave Guard with great weapons backed up with a Corpse Cart will still carve through your ogres like they aren't there.

kobahl 22 Feb 2012

Looks like the Ghoul king would have have to been the General due to his LD of 9 over the M. Necros LD of 8. Something to watch out for next time. His army would have been moving a lot slower. I can see the TG's causing trouble with no IB's to blast them. Maybe next time give the flaming banner to the ME's and use sniper to pick off the characters and negate regen should you bring a IB or 2

ONLY IN A COLLAR CAN A OGRESS TRULY BE FREE....

Ard Boy 22 Feb 2012

It will be a very static game next time

No more head over heels all front attack.
And I will keep your advice in mind

Record : 12/0/6

danielking4812 22 Feb 2012

I think lore of death should help get rid of the characters, and greedy fist with the wizards.

Facing ogres is like facing an avalanche.

kobahl 23 Feb 2012

Death only works best against their necros. Lords and vamp/wight heroes are another matter. All your death sniper spells target LD, T, or S. Which for vamps are all very good. Greedy fist is good though since it just relies on hits.

ONLY IN A COLLAR CAN A OGRESS TRULY BE FREE....

Ard Boy 23 Feb 2012

In my previous encounters with VC, hellheart always gave good results. IMO our own lore plus the lore of fire or lore of the beasts works best against them. That is if your offensive minded

Record : 12/0/6

Slaaneshy sinner 23 Feb 2012

Firebellies are great against VC as they will negate the regen that every unit will have thanks to the mortis egine. It can not be stressed enough how much VC players fear the Hellheart.

kage78 14 Mar 2012

Could you tell me the best tactics for that F...n Coven Throne, plz?

Necrotix 14 Mar 2012

Ironblaster it! You've got the range to it and S10 with multiple wounds. If you can get flaming sword on it to negate the regen, so much the better!

8th Edition New book Win Rate 4-1-0
8th Edition Old book Win Rate 3-0-0

Best Hellheart Result - 3 Dead Vampires + change

Gutlord Inquisitor 14 Mar 2012

Yeah, Ironblaster it. Note that the Throne has a true 4+ Ward but it is always ridden by a character. Might drop the maneaters or leadbelchers at the character first if they have the charmed shield.

Coven throne just isn't that scary, unless it's ridden by a vamp lord. In which case it'll take a bit more killing but still not that hard and the rewards for killing it become very high.

As a vamp player myself I've not figured out the best use for a coven throne. I can't figure a good way to use it so I don't think we'll see many to be honest.

kage78 14 Mar 2012

Big thanks for your opinions. My first idea was as many shooting, as possible ( 8 Leadbelchers, Ironblaster, Hunter, Stonehorn Ogre Rider, Maneater ) and than CHARGE

Brork Bonegut 18 Mar 2012

I will attest that the hellheart is savage against VC. I watched with delight as it shut down his magic phase (-3d6 power dice tends to do that) He lost 5 of his 9 blood knights and who-knows-how much of crypt ghouls. He lost the rest of his blood knights to the iron blaster. In addition, his LOTS of skeletons were mowed over by Mournfang Cavalry. As for a mortis engine, He doesn't own one. I don't know how well it would work against ogres. I haven't seen a coven throne used much, I've only seen it against O&G, in which it was pin cushioned by bolt throwers.

Me and my gnoblars

Quote

Yum! ...let's be clear on this. One of your kidneys? Or just one you happened to have lying around?

grey templar 18 Mar 2012

How did he lose Blood Knights to the Hellheart? They arn't Wizards.

Current win streak: 10

Things Fluffy,my Stonehorn, has flattened: Ancient Stegadon, Unit of 5 Chariots with Tomb king, Chaos Lord, Herald of Khorne on Jugger,
x58 Forever steadfast
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") This is Bunny________ This is bunny after a Thunderstomp

Gutlord Inquisitor 18 Mar 2012

I presume from miscast effects of a character in the unit. A big risk if he's running a fighty vamp or vamp lord in the unit.

Warry 19 Mar 2012

Played Against them (VC) yesterday. What I've learned :

- Terrogheist can be a problem especially if it has all its wounds. Try to kill it in one turn since the VC player can heal it BEFORE it will use the Shriek.

- Vampire Lords HATE greedy fist. His level 3 lost all his levels after one close combat phase against my Slaughtermaster.

- Don't worry too much about how many zombies/skeletons there are in a unit. It will take roughly 40 of them to last a whole turn against 8 ogres even more if you get the charge.

- Sabretusks are an absolute must. Use them as redirectors, keep one of his many units away from CC until your units kill the others.

- Hellheart = too good to be true. Especially if the Mortis engine is within reach as all casters will roll twice on the miscast table and you get to chose.

- Bring a Dispell scroll. Combined with the hellheart, you'll ruin two of their magic phases.

- Bring some sort of flaming attacks and or firebelly. Regen, even at 6+ can be a problem.

Ogres are somewhat vulnerable against shooting, initiative tests, and Ld tests. VC don't have any shooting (other than TG, and banshees), cause fear but we also do, and, unless they use a lore from the rulebook, don't have access to Initiative-based tests. We have a good army to go against them.

Ogre Achievements : 17/101 (after three games)

Latest achievement : 52. Hole is where the heart is. (Lord of Change goes back to hell)

OK record : 3/0/0

Johnny-Crass 10 Apr 2012

As a VC player I can give a few tips.
1. Expect to loose the deployment game, we can match your tusks with hosts and have other chaff drops such as small zombie blocks
2. Mortis Engines are fragile and terrible. Shoot them and watch them crumble
3. Terrorghiest has a 28" range scream, keep this in mind
4. You can be fear bombed and it is really easy to do

MaanNaam 11 Apr 2012

As a VC player I can give a few tips.
1. Expect to loose the deployment game, we can match your tusks with hosts and have other chaff drops such as small zombie blocks
2. Mortis Engines are fragile and terrible. Shoot them and watch them crumble
3. Terrorghiest has a 28" range scream, keep this in mind
4. You can be fear bombed and it is really easy to do

That last bit is a real hassle to deal with sometimes. Make sure you have at least Ld 9 in your general's bubble (tyrant or Ld banner) and also keep your BSB close. They can make you test fear on -1 Ld and they can cancel out your BSB re-roll. (but without BSB you will have to re-roll successful fear tests)

I'm not really sure what all these things are called to achieve this. But they definitely have a few toys to make us WS1.

There is only news. There is no good or bad.

Johnny-Crass 11 Apr 2012

Screaming Banner (makes you take fear tests on 3d6)
Fear Incarnate (Cancels out bsb if he is there iif not makes you real roll passed tests)
Dark Majesty (-1 LD)
Terror

Add that all together and FEAR BOMB!

MaanNaam 11 Apr 2012

Ugh... Forgot about the damn banner on top of all the rest.

Anyway, always have at LEAST Ld9 in your bubble in case you run into some of those thing (or probably all of them).
Testing for fear on Ld7 with 3D6 (highest 2 I think) isn't very fun.

There is only news. There is no good or bad.

Auere 20 Apr 2012

The fear/terror bomb should be plenty more effective against other armies. Ogres cause fear themselves, so only terror will be the concern, and in any case I would bet on ogres to beat most undead in close combat - ws1 or not... :-)

Ogre Achievements: 20/101
Last achievement: 84. My horde is bigger then yours - have an ogre horde break an enemy horde.

Gutlord Inquisitor 20 Apr 2012

Vampire counts have a wide variety of Terror causers. I would at the very least expect a wraith character in the unit, which will do the job. Hitting on 5's isn't a lot of fun and having skeletons or ghouls hit you on 3's equally isn't entertaining, especially with all their re-rolls.

grey templar 21 Apr 2012

Arn't skeletons WS2?

Even if we fail the Fear Test we would hit on 4s down from hitting on 3s(naturally!)

Johnny-Crass 30 Apr 2012

It is more important that we are hitting on 3's. And Ghouls become your worse number as do banner of the barrows grave guard. Hitting you on 2's with S6 while you hit them on 5's? Have fun.

Hedstone 01 May 2012

That screaming banner is just fear tests, right? Not terror? Although terror against us becomes fear, right?

Ogre achievements : 34/101 latest: 34. - Win a game using ogres vs. Warriors of Chaos

Latest Fantasy Result: Vampires vs. Ogre Kingdoms - 2250 points - win! Combat Res / Crumble - the silent killer.

Hedstone - The Mighty Threadomancer!

Phazael 01 May 2012

Correct on both, so at least they cannot terror crash other armies off the table with it. But no matter how you slice it, ghoul hordes have been and always will be bad news for Ogres, even without the fear bomb and with the rescent price hike. Fortunately, most VC players I have been squaring off against since the new book arrived seem focused on Zombies for their core.

The biggest concern for me has been the odd unit of hex wraiths and the flying vampire ogres, both of which can really crush me if they hit me at the wrong place. The scream army is pretty nasty, too.

668 The Neighbor of the Beast

Johnny-Crass 01 May 2012

I have tabled many a ogre army with screamer lists.

Vorazz Arak 22 Sep 2012

Hello friends, have a battle nest week against a VC.
I have two questions:
1- Banner of eternal flame gives magical attacks to the unit?
2- HellHeart can be used only against Necromancers or it can be used against the Vampires? I dont know if i am wrong but only necromancers are wizards even if the vampires have spells. Little confused here

Thanks.

Brork Bonegut 22 Sep 2012

Hello friends, have a battle nest week against a VC.
I have two questions:
1- Banner of eternal flame gives magical attacks to the unit?
2- HellHeart can be used only against Necromancers or it can be used against the Vampires? I dont know if i am wrong but only necromancers are wizards even if the vampires have spells. Little confused here

Thanks.

1- I don't believe that the Banner of Eternal Flame gives magical attacks.
2-Yes, the Hellheart DOES work on vampires, as they ARE wizards.
I played a VC player at adepticon and thrashed him. Why? because he spent so much of his magic dice trying to raise zombies, while I would be working on things that mattered, such as the mortis engine or the crypt horrors. He tried to draw my dice out by summoning zombies. I'd ignore him, until he tried to heal something important, and I'd throw all my dice at it.

Me and my gnoblars

Quote

Yum! ...let's be clear on this. One of your kidneys? Or just one you happened to have lying around?

grey templar 23 Sep 2012

Banners don't give magic attacks unless they say so. If the banner is used to unleash an attack(like the Icy Breath from the Dragonhide Banner) then that attack wil be magical.

The Hellheart effects ALL wizards in range. Vampires are wizards.

ArkkiError 14 Oct 2012

What would you field and do against a list like this:

LORD (none of these lord choises, if I remember right, cost over 300p)

1x Vampire lord: Blood fury, Sword of Striking and LV2 wizard (vampire) something that makes it a killer.

1x Necromancer (His general, dont remember the right names.): Lv 4 Wizard (vampire)
Dont know the stuff on him, he didnt tell and I never got so close to find out.

HERO

1x Vampire: Blood fury, something super killy. Lv 1 wizard (Vampire)

CORE

25x ghouls (one vampire here(hero))
21x zombies (necro here)
30x skeletons(vampirelord here)
5x wolfs
5x wolfs

SPECIAL

8x Crypt Horrors (4x2 deploy)
2x Spirit host
25x GraveGuard (or 24? cant remember.) with standard of Flame

He is an awesome player and nice to play against, always learning something new. but would like to beat him.

(to show the others in our gaming group that it is possible. XD )

Any suggestions? :/

"Let's Dance With Death While Drinking The Poison of Life.."
-ArkkiError

8th Edition Battle Record With Ogre's:
7W / 7L / 0D

SeBM 14 Oct 2012

What are you generally fielding?

Armies played: Ogre Kingdoms and Lizardmen
Record in 8th : W / L / D
Ogre Kingdoms: 9 / 2 / 0

ArkkiError 14 Oct 2012

Depends..tried something like this:

Deathfist slaughtermaster Lv4, Crown, GreedyFist, Enchanted Shield, Sword of Striking.
Butcher lv2, TormentSword, IF, Talisman of Preservasion
Firebelly GW, HH, lv2
9 IG FC & Flame banner
2 units of 10 gnoblars with trappers.
Ironblaster
Gorger (what was a fail)
4 maneaters with AHW (stubborn and poison, also butcher in here for the ethereals.)
4 leadbelchers with bellower.

memory like that of a goldfish. <_< That was a try list mostly (went bad against O&G, should have known by then). =.= Well, new list on the way. :p

"Let's Dance With Death While Drinking The Poison of Life.."
-ArkkiError

8th Edition Battle Record With Ogre's:
7W / 7L / 0D

grey templar 14 Oct 2012

Don't try Deathfisting on him, go for Gutmagic and get as durable as you can. Vampires are still very dangerous even if they lose their casting ability.

You will want Mournfangs. They are one of the few units that WILL kill stuff much faster then he can raise it.

Against a unit of zombies a unit of 4 Mournfangs(with the DHB) does the following,

4D3 impact hits = 8 wounds on average

12 rider attacks = 9 wounds on average

16 mount attacks = 14 wounds on average

Zombies cause nothing back,

4 stomps = 4 wounds on average.

Thats an average of 35 wounds caused to Zombies. with the zombies 3 ranks and the charge the zombies lose by 33.

Then the unit crumbles, for a total of 68 dead zombies when Mournfangs charge.

Its only slightly better with Skeletons and Gouls.

shaun5603 17 Oct 2012

That's a soild list he has.

Because there is no shooting in his list you can play the redirect game all day. His horrors are his main hammer? If so just block them with cats.

Also block the spirt host or they will tie u you up.

The key to list like is his raisin new units, they easy way to counter this is combo charges. What I mean by this is hit his skel ghouls and zombies at the same time. You are lucky that he is not taking the banner of barrows for his GG.

Anyway try to fit in a stonehorn and MF chargeing at the same time will inflict enough damage to the point he can't effectively raise his numbers, now if you can get your bulls in at the same time and unleash the HH you have a soild chance in decimating the bulk of his list.

Another tip that may prove useful is to shoot your template rather than hit with it in CC. On avg you will kill more with template than hitting in CC.

What's the point level you playing at?

As the other poster pointed up buff your units and just beat him in to the ground. Nothing fancy just smash him. Maw and beast would be good IMO.

Horrors can go toe-toe with IG and they can be healed quickly.

Grapeshot will be your friend too, cannonball is nice for hororros but unleashing Lagre amount shots and doing mulital wounds to multia units will push his magic phase.

Speaking of which picking which spells use DD.

Let him raise zombies, there easy enough to chew thou.
Keep his ghouls in check T4 poision is no joke.
Skel break easy, but get to be a pain in large number
Hororros apear to be focuical point of his list. So chances are he going to try to keep them at full strength at all cost.

Just some food for thought, good luck VC can be deadly no matter the skill level of player

ArkkiError 17 Oct 2012

2000p mostly, trying to raise the cap to 2200.

the rest of us are little bit more amateur than he is. (dont want to play chess against him)

I just have to learn deploy better(he out deploys me easily). =.= (and to learn better my army dat is.

)

also..the dice rolls..god..that guy has some damn good luck.

"Let's Dance With Death While Drinking The Poison of Life.."
-ArkkiError

8th Edition Battle Record With Ogre's:
7W / 7L / 0D

shaun5603 17 Oct 2012

At 2k it's tough for us. VC will be fine cause he can boost his numbers.

Yeah deployment plays a huge roll, it can make or break a game.

Dice can't help you there.

But again a small point level, try not to get fancy and adding everything just stick basic of smashing him. Bulls might be a better play cause u can fit more in. Goulds are T4 and GG are T3 with HA if I rembember right. IG might be over kill on most things other than his hororr's.
Plus bull will hit first, minus the vamps there beast in combat.

Things to bring HH and DS, yes greedy fist is nice cause there magic heavy but the death fist combo will require you to lay your battle plan around it. Which is fine but you need to set your list up to support your death/fist

If you going with death/fist combo expect his horrors to come at you ASAP. But they may work for you. A good player will learn to fear that combo. Also if he Challenge your SM with fist, all you have to do is hit him for him to lose spells and lvl. Target his nerco with death spells, and fight his vamps. Fencer blades and scales will give your SM a fighting chance, may get lucky with ward and ruin his magic weapon. No more frost blade which all ogres are thank full fore.

What's your gear lay out looking like? That list you posted before made it look like it was over the place. There a good amount vet players on here, who can guide you a little when it comes to gear lay out.
Pick a role and stick to it.

It's fun to play with all the toys we have in our book, but if your trying to grasp your army stick to basic at first than slowly introduce your self to new units. I had to do that when switching back to ogres from LM, again IMO that might work for you,

Movement and deployment comes with practice.

lamo 09 Dec 2012

hey guys I'm not sure if im posting in the right place BUT.... I think vamps seem pretty amazing right now. with the change to the overrun rule against crumbling and their access to a billion chaff units (easy to fit 9 good chaff) and then with a knight bus or gg horde they can kill you off easy.

Also I don't know how I would deal with a a meat grinding vamp lord

Vamp lord 2+/4++
red furry
quick blood
ogre blade
other tricksters shard
charm shield
talisman of preservation
barded mount

so he is asf so he wont miss more than a hit on a good day. He's str 7 and gets an attack for each wound he causes....ohh and he makes you reroll ward saves. Throw him in a bus of black knights with two other vamps with asf and literally unit of 9 ironguts....poof...5 MFC...poof. All the while a set of level 2 death vamps spam soul blight from the beginning of the match (LD 10 from papa vamp).

I guess you guys can see I'm a little distressed haha.

Thanks for the help

Adasi 10 Dec 2012

yeah thats probably the toughest character build in the game alongside the pimped out life slaan.

I'd say if you know your opponent is bringing that then i'd definately give your Main caster the Hellheart and your secondary caster the Hex scroll. Once he's a frog, there's not much he can do with all that bling!

High Elves and Ogres Blog - my gaming blog covering painting, battle reports and colelcting on a budget!

Moniker 07 Jan 2013

Hello, team!

My most regular opponent is a Vampire player, and though I do all right for the most part - despite the fact that he seems to know the game slightly better then I do - I'd like to step it up a bit. In our gaming group, the only person who's actually killed a Vampire Lord without using crumble was our Tomb Kings player due to Killing Blow.

I want to kill a vampire.

How can I do this? He usually brings a Blender of some sort, often the Ghoul King but occasionally the regular Vampire Lord. Occasionally in Knights, but rarely. I Likely won't be able to challenge him, as he's smart enough to accept it with a Champion, who'll die then get res'd later. So I need to be able to just beat the crap out of him!

I like the idea of Tyrants in general, so would kitting one out with this in mind do? Chances are he's going to strike first, so should I try to make a tough bastard who can then return fire? Take a healing potion? Would a Slaughtermaster actually do better due to buffs/lore attribute? Or throw Death on him to take the Vamp down a tad before the Close Combat phase?

What sort of Big Names should I be looking at? Mawseeker, even though it's expensive? Deathcheater to help weather his first bout of attacks?

I'm sort of leaning towards a Tyrant with Deathcheater, a 4+ Ward, Great Weapon, perhaps Glittering Scales, as my armour isn't likely to matter.

Thoughts?

Reaper 22 Feb 2013

my dear Tyrants!!Fear no darkness!!!i play vs vampires and i win almost evety fight!!!Today i ll play again with them..here is a list of 3500p without special character and some of my ideas....

1 Tyrant(gen,talisman of preservation,glittering scales,golden sigil sword,the other tricksters shard)
1 slaughtermaster(lvl4 maw,GW,armor of destiny,hellheart)
1 bruiser(bsb Maw banner,Ha, ironfist)
1 butcher(lvl2 heavens,dispel scroll)
1 firebelly(lvl2)
9 ironguts (fC)
10 ironguts(fc)
3 sabretusk(separate units each for redirections)
3 leadbelchers
3 leadbelchers
8 Maneaters(FC,HA,additional the first 4,and dragonhidebanner) abilities stubborn-poison attacks
6 Maneaters(FC,LA,command group BoOP,and the other 3 pistols,banner of eternal flame) abilities scout-sniper
1 Ironblaster

tyrant will smash any vampire in challenge..for 1 simple reason:the sword give em first strike..with this the Bloodsucker lose the re roll so have only 5 attacks and have few attacks to use red fury...

also the big unit of IGs will hold the blocks and smash any core choise like Ghouls or zombies or skellies
8 maneaters with tyrant,Bruiser(stubborn,poison attacks,dragonhidebanner, ruune maw will be devastating vsany block of grave guards...
6 maneaters with scout and sniper will snipe the weak necrimancers and firebelly is for etherial if any and finaly the ironblaster for bloodknights or terrorgheist if any!!

any comments are welcome!!!

First we're gonna beat it,
then we're gonna eat it!!

Reaper 22 Feb 2013

Ogres Vs VC crushing Victory for Ogres!!!VC army all Wipe out!!!

so the list above works!!

Adasi 25 Feb 2013

just adding to your posts....3500pt games are rather unusual. Games in my meta are played @2400 and i know several areas @ 2500. I'm recently loving 2000pt but that amount is very rare.

High Elves and Ogres Blog - my gaming blog covering painting, battle reports and colelcting on a budget!

Reaper 25 Feb 2013

My friend here in my area we like to play big fights like 3000p(most common) or more!!!So we play only GT!we like to use all the possibilities of our army!!

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