Ogre Kingdoms Vs Orcs and Goblins

Got tactical advice to give for facing greenskins? Post it here.

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I would personally take as many terror causing units/characters as possible.  I would want a lot of leadership checks from them as I believe they will fail quite a few.  Watch the squig hoppers they can do some nasty work to a unit.

Thanks,
JC

Always try to panic their biggest models first. Panicing a goblin unit does nothing, as they are cheap and don't matter and due to the "Size Matters" rule won't panic orcs, which are cheap, but kill alot.
With the new rule book orcs are surprisingly fast, and their M4 really doesn't make them much slower than ogres. Watch out for their bursts of speed (Waaagh! and Waaagh!, as well as animosity), and the charge. Orcs rule on the charge.

My usual opponent - O&G nowadays.

He fields an orc only army.

I find them tough, but TOUGH AIN'T ENOUGH.

Wolf chariots, on the other hand, are a completely diffrent story.

Yesterday: Round 1, sends one of these cheap bastards into my unit containing butcher and 3 ironguts.
6 wound later, my right flank is gone.

It was a draw, but these chariots really piss me off.

They always neutralise my yhetees also.

Hate them.

That's why I started using leadbelchers.

2 X 2, instead of vanilla bulls only.

Not only they are better at diverting charges, but they also kill off even medium cavalry, and excel at destroying wolf chariots.

Great buy in my book from now on. 

i never have trouble with orcs, my fear either causes them to run away or i trounce them in combat. I usually size up my guys against his, Gnoblars vs. goblins, Ogres vs. orc boys, ironguts vs. Black orcs and my tyrant against his boss. Only the black orcs cause me trouble, but everything else i eat for breakfast.

Black orcs are the bane of many things and black orc bosses are even worse.Avoid like the plague or blast them to kingdomkum with some leadbelchers

There are a lot of Night Goblin armies making the rounds at the moment...   Some useful tactics i've found against them is to rush a small unit of Bulls right up the middle - to within 8" of as many units of NG's as you can (obviously to bring out the Fanatics...).  Trappers are good for this as well.

Nets can really hamper your ability to do decent wounds with Normal Bulls - so definaltey up the number of Iron Guts.

Gorgers also work well if you can get a rear charge... Most NG armies really need to bunch up their units to benefit from the general's LD - so if you bring Gorgers on from the rear, even if he turns around a unit (which he shouldn't do if you are threatening the front of the unit) - you can usually charge the back of something.  Most of the time, once a Gorger is in the back of a unit of Gobbs - he is there for good... unbreakable and T5 means that the Gobbos will rarely be able to wound...

A Butcher with Skullmantle and Braingobbla is VERY useful here - target units outside the general's 12" range, or flanking units, and you will have a lot of success.

The big aggressive units that can hurt you in NG armies are Squig Hoppers, Herders, and Trolls (usually Stone Trolls).   Stone Trolls are fairly easy for Ogres to dispatch, although they may require a character or two in the unit of Iron Guts to ensure the job is done is one turn (or you will get counter-charged by the Genera's unit)...   Herders just need to be taken down as a priority - Leadbelchers are good for this, also for taking on Hoppers.   The biggest problem unit I've found in Night Goblins is the Hoppers...  Normally they are run down a flank for 1-2 turns, before turning into the main Ogre battle line.  Because they don't charge like normal, they can technically charge a flank even if they originally started with the majority in the front - and they also benefit from 360" LOS.  You really need to dedicate something to take these guys on... because they can rings around you with their movement, a unit with combo firepower (like Maneaters with Handguns) works well - if the Hoppers don't roll high enough to get out of your LOS - you can charge, if they do roll high enough, you can turn and fire, etc...

in an all assult army list against the orcs, (no butchers) the orcs will be a assult list too. what would be better to take a a gorger or giant.ill be taking Rhinox riders too since ill be saving points from the butchers

Maneaters!!!

Why do you find Maneaters such a good choice against O&G's?  Or is this just a general preference?

Thanks,
JC

I can't see how maneaters would be any better than ironguts (or leadbelchers) vs the greenskins, and why you'd want to lose your gorgers for them.

Me neither.
Against anarmy who can set up 3 boltthrowers against every elven boltthrower ( given 5 points) the gorger can have a much better chance.
The shooting and magic from Orcs ( but especially ) goblins will cause panic tests and that will have your maneaters charging on their own.
And that isn't good enough.

Ok so the game ended in a draw.  But all of the advice did help.  I attacked the doom diver with a sabertusk, i was able to kill the Arach with my mournfangs and i double charged the two savage blocks.  All of that worked out well, but i falled to move far enough on one flank to get out of the way for the black orcs, so he was able to flank charge my whole right flank.  But other then some dumb luck on my part, all the advice helped thanks.

I'm having another battle against ogres coming thursday, it's a practice match for the ogre player as he's going to enter the Dutch GT. I'll post the list I'm thinking of using and I'll get a small battle report after wards with c&c.

the army Im probably going to use is as follows:

Orc warboss with shield and armour of destiny
Orc shaman, lvl 2 with channeling staff
NG great shaman lvl 3 with dispel scroll
NG bigboss, bsb, light armour, shield, Bad Moon Banner
NG bigboss, great cave squig, sword of Battle, light armour

20 NG archers with 3 fanatics
20 NG archers with 3 fanatics
50 NG with spears and shields, FC, 3 fanatics, netters
28 Big Unz, FC, add hw.

Unit of 3 Wolf Chariots
11 Squig hoppers (they will ofc be joined by the hero on great squig)
4 Speak chucka's

Doom Diver
Rock Lobba
2 Mangler squigs
2 Pump wagons with spiky rolla's and Out-rigga (+1 str and +1d6 movement)

Well, the opponent ran an army which basically consisted of Skrag with 8 iron guts, Golgfag with 7 other maneaters, 2 times 3 leadbelchers, 5 bulls with the bsb, 2 gorgers and a unit of 3 bulls.

He managed to get turn one and did a pretty good job of denying me charges with my pumpwagons and chariots. The terrain helped a lot as it was very detrimental for me as I just couldn't get all my units in my deployment zone in an orderly fashion without sacrificing either charge lines or line of sight for warmachines. Showing again that you can get a good advantage against o&g as soon as at deployment. He however deployed his 5 man bull unit with bsb in front of skragg and his unit, 6 man wide it turned out to be a bottleneck for 3 turns and prevented skragg for pretty much almost the entire battle from seeing close combat with his unit. THis meant I could focus pretty much almost my entire army on clearing out the maneater unit first. My right flankw as threatened by a unit leadbelchers who were smart enought o go through the forest so my chariots wouldn't think them a tasty snack. In turn 2 they shot 2 squig hoppers before they were completely dismemebered horrinly by the small balls of fury. The maneaters charged the big uns, suffering quite a bit because f fanatics int he way. Only 1 maneater and golgfag made it into combat, they subsequently got beaten and golgfag as a sole survivor ran away with the big unz holding (ptherwise they would have suffered 6d6 str 5 hits, not very good). After that the hoppers proceeded to eat Golgfag and happily bounced into skrag's unit. Skrag made use of the make way rule and got himself into contact with the squigs and got subsequently eaten by the squigs.

In the end I could just put the whole battle but it was pretty obvious what it showed form the start onwards, maneuverablility is key. aside from whether his army selection is a good choice or not I won simply because I was able to take his army apart bit by bit. During deployment and the first 2 turns I was really struggling, most of my artillery couldn't get any decent targets due to terrain, units blocking los. I could not get straight lines for random movement in the first bit of the battle which costs me both pum wagons and made sure the manglers both only hit once. MY opponent however deployed units 5 or 6 wide in case of the bulls. This gave me the ability to ignore for example skragg's unit and focus on golgfag, as the bull unit with bsb just isn't scary in any way whatsoever for my important units. Given that they will charge anything first giving me one or two close combat rounds extra to deal with skragg's unit to try and soften it up. In the end the bull unit killed a unit of fanatic crrriers and nothing more, skragg charged the horde night gobbo and they ran away due to terror ( it happens, ld9 test with reroll can be failed sadly enough) which goes to show the power of fear and terror against o&g units. I failed quite a few of those but still managed to do enough damage.

In short, his army wasn't the best, nor were my dice rolls (failed over 7 fear and terror tests with rerollable ld 9 and 3d6 random movement refusing to go over 8 inches far in the beginning). But what gave me the win was the fact that he allowed me to pick his army apart bit by bit. He had the advantage of being able to pick the fight during deployment but gave it up by deploying his units wide rather than keeping the 3 wide in case of the bulls and a bit deeper. That and having to just barge through fanatics due to the lack of gnoblar screens. This battle was very much decided by the ability to maeuver properly which he could have gotten me beat on but failed to take advantage of, allowing me to let numbers count and focus on scary stuff one unit at a time.

That, and remember to avoid squigs with your characters, they are the fungi of the match. They took care of a unit leadbelchers, golgfag and skragg and still had 3 members standing.

Played a 2500 battle with O&G yesterday, and these are my general thoughts (we ran out of time, i would have cleared the battlefield should we had had more time than 4 turns):

1. I had 3 single sabertusks, 2 of which took care of his 2 manglersquigs units and one who destroyed a doomdiver. Love your saberstusks, take care of them. I hate Manglersquigs with a passion.

2. A large unit of 6 Leadbelchers. Took down a pumpwagon first turn, a goblinchariot 2:nd, reduced a large unit of netters 3:d and combocharged and took down one of the main units with general 4:th turn. First time i took a larger unit than 4, and i like them better this way.

3. Had 2 units of 5 Maneaters. One took down 6 trolls, without the flaming banner, loosing 1 ME. One failed to do much because i charged a big unit of Orks with a 5+ wardsave, BSB and lvl 4 shaman. Learning points; choose targets wisely, combocharge, use magic to buff/debuff, dont frontal charge with the precious ME:s unless i think they can break/win the combat.

4. Heaven magic is really helpfull, especially if you can get both hexes and the augment. The comet and lightning are both very intimidating to many opponents i think. Makes them more afraid than they should be.

5. Had 1 scouting ME unit, one Vanguard ME unit and one unit of Gnoblar Trappers (who made me proud btw!)
It can be really scary for the opponent, i think, or at least make him/her think twice about every move.

6. Had one cannon, who shot down a bigger Orcchariot and resisted/killed a smaller charging goblinchariot. Also killed some other stuff. Love our cannon, but after having played 5 matches in a tournament with 2 cannons i think i prefer just one.

7. I need to learn to deploy/play better 

P.S I am starting to think i prefer Ogres over IG:s, at least against O&G

P.S I am starting to think i prefer Ogres over IG:s, at least against O&G

You're right, Ogres are probably more useful then IG's in this situation because Orcs have I2 as well, and with choppas Orcs hit very hard, so Ogres are probably a better bet in the long run.

Yeah, IG are not really worth the effort to be honest, maneaters are great, since they have a bit higher initiative and thus usually strike first but Iron guts normally take to many casualties when charged by or charging an orc unit, even if they aren't big uns. The amount of str 4 attacks they have to suffer is just not wirth the 2+ to wound imho, especially considering the extra point costs. Better to go for more bulls and invest the xtra points you have spare in gnoblar/sabretusks to run doww fanatics/manglers or invest in maneaters.

I just had a match against a orcs and goblins player. With the new rules they are so less random (well slightly less). Animosity isn't a big problem but I do have a few tips I can pass on from my expierence.

1. Black orcs: Are a big problem, I found that if you can distract the black orcs by threatening them with a flank charge by Mournfang, they will spend the game trying to stop you. This tactic is great if you field mournfangs as harrasers/flankers.

2. The big spider thing... It's a pain to deal with but by sacrificing a unit of ogres I was able to keep it occupied while I went after the general

1. Black orcs fall short against Guts when you add a char or two and I never have any problem with these.

2. The spider heads cannon balls so the threat is minor.

O&G have a truckload of other stuff that makes it harder to deal with than these two examples (unless the game was at low points, where O&G shines).

But nice to see experience that differs from mine. 

It was a 1500 point game. My opponent fielded group of night goblins (with three fanatics that ended up killing her general) group of orc boyz, orc boar boyz with an orc shaman. Sorry they were savage orc boar boyz.

I was experimenting with different army build at the time. I used no ironblaster or leadbelchers, a mistake since I had nothing that could stand up to the spider. Though I just got a thundertusk so we will see how our next game goes.

She is new to the game still (only her 4th game with her army). So I am just trying to convey the lessons I learned from this fight in hopes to help others in the future.

I've played quite a number of games against goblin-centric armies (heck, I own one), and a few against the more orc-heavy varients, and there is one major tactic that I have yet to see mentioned here.

Go ranged.

The rockstar, most improved unit of the new ogre book has got to be the leadbelcher, having gone from slightly less than worthless to one of the best shooters in the game.  Further more, most people should have between 4 to 8 of them floating around, since 1 or 2 of the battalion boxes makes such a great start for the army (my original ogre army was 2 battalion boxes, 2 scraplaunchers, and 4 characters at 2400 and was very competitive).

So, field a unit (or two if you have them!) of 8 leadbelchers or so.  A 4x2 unit is still relatively easy to maneuver, and any wider and you start to run into issues of the far gunners being out of range when firing obliquely.  8d6 translates into 28 shots average, with the typical 5+ to hit making that 9-10 hits a volley, which further translates into 4-5 dead orcs, or 6-7 dead gobbies.  So, a dead and/or broken rank for the orcs, and a panic check on the average goblin unit.  This will even kill a mangle squig, as it works out to 5-6 hits, with 2-3 wounds.  And that's at 24 inches.

Now, the other side of this tactic is Maneaters. 

Give them sniper, poison, and the brace of pistols.  Personally, I prefer to run this as a unit of at least 6.  This works out to 12 shots at 24 inches, which with sniper means you are hitting on 6s.  Which means you should roll two 6s, and with poison you bypass that irritating roll to wound   Boom, one dead hero-level character.  Sounds like a BSB    This units also remains VERY killy in close combat.  Target priority is key.  BSB first.  Kill the general next, unless your rockeye (you did take it, right?) reveals he's kitted out for survival.  Killing these two will put paid to almost any orc or goblin army.  The shamans, while more vulnerable and with the potential to do more damage are purely secondary to these targets.

Finally, the Ruby Ring of Ruin and the magic missiles from your lore of choice are ideal for killing skirmishing units.  A firebelly for your secondary caster is the perfect choice, since you can just opt out for his signature spell to get your magic missile.  This way you can take a dispell scroll and not have to worry about upgrading to level two to increase your chances of getting the necessary spell.  Note, I did not say 'kill fanatics.'

With a ranged army, fanatics are your friend.  Use your kitties to tease them into the open ground between your two armies.  Since you are not advancing, this will make the fanatics more of an obsticle to the orcs/gobbos than you, and you can always blast any that get too close.

Now, the maneaters and a single unit of leadbelchers fit in well with just about any balanced list without too much effort.  If you plan to field more than one unit of leadbelchers, then I recommend bumping the maneater squad up to 8, grabbing two bargain basement firebellies, sticking the RRoR on your general, and taking 2 ironblasters instead of scrap launchers.  Two units of leadbelchers will shred the incoming units, allowing your basic core troops to easily deal with the bleeding remains.  This will leave the ironblasters to pop war machines, the buffed unit of maneaters will more reliably kill characters, and your fire bellies and general can blast squig hoppers and mangler squigs and the odd fanatic.

Hmm, that might be worth giving it a try (granted, I have preciously few ranged ogre units but I'll find a way). It would be interesting to see though how this would measure up against a shooty O&G army. Considering that if at 2400 pts the orc player tools up on warmachines he spends a grand total of 540 pts for 2 doom divers, 2 rock lobbers and 6 spear chucka's. Ofcourse the ogre player can, aside from leadbelchers, still tool up on artillery so that evens it out quite a lot, downside is though that it's all a good deal more expensive for Ogres so the O&G player can affort to have more stuff being shot to bits than you can. Still, going ranged takes out a large part of the threat of O&G's random movement stuff as they will have to close the distance and are usually rather fragile.

As far as the leadbelchers go, it would be very good but then again, unless the gobbo units are fanatic carriers made up of the minimum required amount of gobbo's it'll be difficult to break the bastards untill turn 3 or 4 when the casualties start piling up as most main gobbo units I've seen (and play myself) tend to be 50 man strong. Note though, even if you can only use the leadbelchers against fanatic carriers it'll still be worth the effort as those things even for a ranged OK army can be annoying. Most important thing to do with that tactic is focussing on stopping Hand of Gork though, as that can lead to very fast redeployment and fanatics in your base line at which point you could have a problem.

As far as bsb and general sniping goes, I don't know how many other players tool theirs but when I play O&G they are both tooled for survival and hide in a bunker unit at the back and centre of my line hiding behind the rest of the army. Not a very orcish thing to do but you can't really afford to lose those two early on in the game (or even later on actually  ). O&G characters are simply so cheap that's it's viable to simply take another few combat kitted bosses to compensate for the lack of general in your hitting units.

The base of your tactic seems solid though, I'm actually quite curious how it'll work out. I think the biggest point will be target priority for a shooty OK army, as a good O&G player can flood the board with units you would very much like to take out. Under cover of these he can have a few serious combat units run across the board (maybe helped by hand of gork) to crash into OK lines. As I said before I'm curious how it'll work and think I'll give it a go trying out. We can use every advantage we can get against O&G players 

I agree with your comment about the character sniping, and you're absolutely right about what a canny O&G player will do.  The nice thing is that a unit of 6 maneaters with BoP costs only slilghtly more than an additional 8 leadbelchers    So, if you want to forgo finesse, just volley fire into a unit.  There is very little that 2 units of 8 leadbelchers won't panic.

Even if you arn't shooty, Sabretusks can be used to bring out the fanatics on T1.

Then the Gobbo player has the Fanatics far too close to his lines for comfort and you don't have the danger of them being assured of hitting your units once.

its better to have the Fanatics be brought out immediatly and have a random chance of them hitting you then it is to have them be released into your face when you charge him.

Without the fanatics in their units, there really is nothing the unit has going for it against your ogres.


Sabretusks are why Gobbo lists don't perform well against Ogres. They are good against other armies who have almost no chaff to bring the fanatics out when they want them to.

im a orc and goblin player and for the life of my cant think of a efficient way of dealing with ogres.. the cats just ruin my day and thinking that maybe its worth taking a few arra boys to try and kill them.. but then im left with arra boys lol

Hmm, well, that's not a very clear question? What are you running normally against OK, a wellbiuld O&G army should be able to give ogres a run for their money. You have cheap fodder, and cc units that beat ogres statistic wise.

Without any reference to what you normally use all I can say is don't be afraid to sacrifice your units. Load up on wolf chariots and pump wagons etc. Aim those for the nastiest ogre unit you can find and hope they make combat. It will force your opponent to deal with them. They most likely won't break or destroy a ogre unit on their won but on average they cause mayhem and soften the unit up really well. and the best thing is, they work perfectly well against all ogre infantry, as they depend on impact hits rather than actually trying to fight (which they can't, after the charge they will die, fast usually). Ofcourse you will lose most chariots and pump wagons, and manglers and whatnot, but that's life. The trick is to keep him busy with these potentially very damaging units untill you can bring your main army into cc. Winning against ogres is usually done with solid reliable units of orcs. Especially a unit of savage big uns (with shrunken head ofc) is a world of hurt for every ogre unit.

Also, be carefull with deployment and movement, make sure you don't block your own units etc. as your army's footprint is usually big and an ogre's isn't. Don't let yourself get backed into a corner where you can't manouvre anymore.

And if all else fails, go goblin horde with nothign but characters in the front rank, hilarity and mayhem ensues  . Anyways, read the rest of this topic for what it's worth, if something is discussed how to deal with it warrants attention. Shoulnd't give OK opponents to much ammo 

Edit: and don't go looking down on arrer boyz, they are damn good in my book, a shooty unit which still clobbers like every other orc unit is good. 28 man, 10 wide, shaman and hero in there, watch opponent be amazed as you charge with your shooty unit and clobber him in cc.

thanks u for your reply.. this will give me somthing to work on.. im sure by now my mate will have seen this and laughed that i posted.. but ive only ever beat him with pure luck.. ill make a battle report when we play next

The NG army with tons of war machines is still a major problem for most ogre armies.  The Sabres can set off the fanatics, but the Ogre player is still forced to wade through them to fight the goblin guy, if he wants to win.  This matchup won or lost in the magic phase.  Trollguts to absorb fanatic damage,  Comet to hit the war machine pit, or Piercing Bolts to lower the goblin trains to managable sizes are all key.  If you are not in an artilery war, you can also send in the Ironblasters to absorb the fanatics, which is what I have done in my army that has no sabers in it.

The NG army with tons of war machines is still a major problem for most ogre armies.  The Sabres can set off the fanatics, but the Ogre player is still forced to wade through them to fight the goblin guy, if he wants to win.  This matchup won or lost in the magic phase.  Trollguts to absorb fanatic damage,  Comet to hit the war machine pit, or Piercing Bolts to lower the goblin trains to managable sizes are all key.  If you are not in an artilery war, you can also send in the Ironblasters to absorb the fanatics, which is what I have done in my army that has no sabers in it.

Sniping the BSB or general will also work wonders. Steadfast 5 is not really very good.

This is one of those rare moments when our panic spell works well against NG horde units.

Sniping the BSB or general will also work wonders. Steadfast 5 is not really very good.

I know we are debating this in general at the moment, but no NG general worth a poop is ever going to put his general down on the table (or BSB) without a screen in the way, so sniping will never work.  Mine, for example, typically wears the Armor of Destiny and sits in a unit behind two other NG columns.

Brain gobler for the stragglers, on the other hand, works wonders.  Its also good for shutting down individual war machines that are particularly dangerous (doom diver) for a turn, especially when paired with bone cruncher and some suplemental shooting.

Braingobbler is also your way to instapop Squig Herds.

I just found that hilarious one game where I did that turn 1 to a Squigherd Horde. And then on turn 2 I did it to the 2nd one. The explosion killed a Mangler too!

Squig herds are ItP.  Braingobbler cannot affect them in any way.

In my experience, the best answer to a Squig herd is a firebelly or two.  A properly placed breath weapon template will severely gimp the unit.  Alternatively, a fulminating flame cage will either hold them in place for a turn or again severely gimp the unit.

Believe it or not, charging in an Ironblaster works pretty well, too.  I am generally sending mine forward to pull fanatics anyhow, so thats what I do when I see a herd.  And honestly, it is WS3 T3 opposition.  There are much worse things to fight from that book.

aren't the squigs strength 5 though?  Yes, that'd mean they'd still wound on a 5 versus the ironblaster, but that's too much for me (I lubs ma cannons!).  Besides, my ironblasters are typically trying to kill the plethora of O&G warmachines.  For the herds, I still prefer leadbelchers.  With that many shots, you've got a decent chance at killing the handlers, too.  For the Hoppers, I'll agree that the IB may be the best to charge them and hold them up, but I'd still try to buff it with tooth cracker/wissan's wildform.  Or trollguts.  Everything is better with Trollguts.

They are S5, but there is virtually nothing O&G players can do to up their combat output in the magic phase and they are still basically WS3.  They are also the first models to die, impact hits aside.  Really, not a tough unit to deal with.  And yeah, go counterbattery with the IBlasters, but if you advance towards the army as you do this, an IBlaster can engage this unit in its most common sizes and one round it, if its not under the bubble.  Typically, the Gobs push one wound while you will drop seven guys on an average charge round.  The three you would do normally is enough to tie this unit and it has no commands.  I guess I see the Iblasters as shock units in this game, because of having to draw fanatics out of the enemy.

That's what saber tusks are for!   

Sabers will never live past turn one against a strong O&G army (well if there is such a thing) that is reliant on fanatics.  A combination of archers, magic, and Doomdivers make that very unlikely, especially the gunline version of the army.  And if he has any of the fast cavalry units, you will pretty much be delayed until its too late.

You must have some extremely accurate warmachines around you   The O&G players around here (all 2 of them) usually don't field that many, and they usually target the bigger stuff.  And they mishap alot 

Well two doomdivers backed by archer units is fairly standard and most toss in at least two each of rock lobbas and spear chuckkas, too.  Between those and magic missiles, its a tough task to get the Sabers past no man's land.

If he's wasting shots at my Sabretusks I'm glad.

Thats 2 DDs not shooting at my Mournfangs.

Leadies are brilliant against squig herds.

If he's wasting shots at my Sabretusks I'm glad.

Thats 2 DDs not shooting at my Mournfangs.

Because your mournfangs are going to vaporize running over fanatics instead and likely panic before they complete the charge.  At least thats how I deal with them as a NG player.  Let them eat a couple fanatics to trounce an 80 point unit, then countercharge to mop up the leftovers.  Clearing the Sabres is easier than forcing panic on the MF.

Too many assumptions.

With their speed, I can easily bring out the Fanatics turn 1 with my Sabretusks march moves unless you have deployed to deliberatly avoid them doing that. which could be difficult to do without messing up your deployment in other areas while still maintaining firing lanes for your Spear Chukkas.

So at best the O&G have 1 round of shooting at long range to kill the Sabres.

Not sure how its difficult to deploy one fraction of an inch back, which is all you need stop a turn one release (16 + , and that's assuming you do not have empty screen unitsstanding in front of the main fanatic deployers.  I use cheap hoppers as screens and those completely bone the tusks, since they cannot flee a charge from them and they charge 360.  Others use archers and snotlings.  Three sabers is not going to be a problem for a descent night goblin army, if he built his list descently.  Honestly when I have faced ogres its the character death stars and pistoleaters that cause the issues for me.  That and comet. Goblins hate comet.

Well it all depends on the player I guess, but I have had decent success with sabretusks.

However, a boosted horde/star is a nightmare for the NG army if you are able to remove or hinder their chaff.

Ironguts with regen and/or T5 will diminish the nr of wounds taken by fanatics a great deal and you need huge blocks of NGs to be able to resist the onslaught.

So I didnt see it anywhere when I was looking through, but Foot of Gork should be one of the Ogre players biggest concerns. Never let it go if you can stop it. I know it can be unreliable but that the same time with d3 wounds it has a tendency to really hurt ogres.

SO big uns will beat anything you have in combat head on, unless heavily supported by magic. redirect with sabretusks or gnoblars. Also if a unit of ogres gets into a fight with them you know your going to lose anyway kill the shaman. He is a ton of points and a 6+ ward is much easier to deal with than a 5+ on the SO horde.

The last thing I would say that really hurts for you guys is very large blocks of night goblins with nets. Im talking like 10  ranks. They can tarpit an important unit for a very long time so keep away form then with anything u want to use to kill things.

Believe it or not, foot of gork is rather a less than worrying spell to be honest. I find that it's the augments/utility spells that one has to watch out for. 'ere we go, hand of gork, gift of the spider god, itchy nuisance (D6 less movement, fuuu) and gork'll fix it are far more troublesome. The foot is fun and does some damage but that is not quite as disastrous as a big un unit which is allowed to reroll all it's failed to hit in cc, a night goblin horde which suddenly has poisoned attacks, you needing to reroll all 6's or worst of all, fanatic carriers dumped in the side of your line, thereby sending fanatich carreening thorugh your entire flank.

Ofcourse that's just my opinion but the raw damage spells of the O&G are not quite as impressive and dangerous as most other lists, I find the boost/debuff spells far more worrysome as they give bonusses to big damn units.

Yeah, the few times I've faced Foot of Gork it either didn't do much or just scattered off. It could be nasty if your opponent rolls decently but if you have any buffs up it becomes kinda lackluster. Even a simple +1T will severly neuter the spell.

Im going to be playing my friend later today and neither of us have played 8th ed fantasy yet but i know the general rules and tactics but  i know he will have a character on a wyvern either black orc or lvl 4 shaman so has anyone got any advice on that ?

Well, to be honest the wyvern itself is annoying and relatively fast but it isn't all that dangerous by itself and you should be able to handle it well. The Black Orc on top might be a problem though, with a decent load out they can do a good amount of damage but again, if it's unsupported by units it's not that much of a threat, just don't accept challenges with your slaughtermaster, chances are the Black Orc Warboss will stomp it's behind two ways to sunday with a decent load out, your charcters are tough, but not invincible. Try to cannonball it to death, as cannons have become pretty good in the current edtion.

 The Shaman, if he has it, is easily beaten in combat so the best bet would be to run up to it and clobber it's head, the wyvern only has 3 attacks so can down one ogre per combat phase, you should be able to handle that and take care of the shaman. Watch out for the big blocks of savage orcs/black orcs/big uns, these units deal far more damage than a character on wyvern tbh. And ofc the usual things like drawing out fanatics etc etc.

Ironblaster will make his Wyvern cry.

Hey guys, fresh meat here

Where I'm from, most people play 40k and I was the only one with a fantasy army (ogres of course).
My best bud recently decided to challange my "supremacy" with an O+G army.

His list is mostly garbage since he's new but I was foolish enough to mention horde units. Now I have to deal with 2 hordes of 40 Black Orcs, one led by a big boss and the other by Grimgor his-self......
 
Any advice? or a can opener maybe?....

ironguts or poison maneaters will put paid to the wyvern.

As for black orc hordes, leadbelchers will sand them down (big units, at least 8+).  A horde of your own isn't a bad idea.  Comet works great against big units.  Maneaters (poison, stubborn, AHW) will mutually destroy one.  Scraplaunchers actually work pretty well against big units like that, especially since he basically has to run them next to eachother.

DoctorJay: unless your playing a large game (4000pts at least) that many black orcs arent legal. weighing in at 1110pts for special choices.

Razogokkk: I knew I shoulda checked his math for him    At 12 pts a pop I believe, that makes 960 not counting upgrades and such, which works for a 2000 pt game, but he did give them shiny bits so I should check on that.

Nihmwit: Thanks for the advice   
I was condidering Leadheads myself, and scraplaunchers will work better than the Ironblaster I was considering.

Any Ideas on Grimgor though? He has the chops to drop a tyrant if im right and him getting in a challange is a daunting thought

Feed him a champion and kill the rest of the unit.

Slaughter Masters built defensivly can also be nearly impossable to shift. Especially since they can heal themselves.

Armor of Destiny, OTS, and Fencers Blades is one possable annoyance. You have a 4+ ward, can heal wounds just be casting spells, and whack him back on 3s with Str4(or more if you buff yourself up)

DoctorJay: i was thinking with shields and full command and the like but still seems like too much

DoctorJay: unless your playing a large game (4000pts at least) that many black orcs arent legal. weighing in at 1110pts for special choices.

Special can be 50% of your force.  That many BlOrcs is very legal

So long as his Lords and Hero choices were only 25% or less of his list, it can be legal.  What was he running for his 25% core?

Nihmwit: He only has Grimgor and a Blk Orc big boss for L + H's. His core was 2 units of 20 boys and a unit of Savage Orcs. Nothing horrible.  If he even had any points left after them and the 2 hordes idk what he spent them on. Also, he has no shooty units.... Like I said, its only the Blorcs and Grimgor Im kinda concerned with

Ok having just finished my second ever game against orcs i thought id feedback on my feelings!

1) Deployment - They will out deploy us! They have too much chaff and too many cheap things for us to even contend with, Do what you can and get your priorities right!

2) Priorities - Kill the Manglers...before all else. suicide your kitties, shoot with Leaddies...waste an IB shot if you have to...get rid of them!! Then depending on your list, consider war machines or whittling down the inevitable SOrc block!

3) Which lore? Heavens is a must i feel as it can plonk a comet in all their warmachines, chain lightning all their chaff and make them reroll their inevitable poison! Death may work if they run something like a troll horde and you can kill off the Ld bubble but its not a scratch on Heavens. Maw - i actually rolled "The Maw" with my L1 butcher tax and cast it - large one - ....it killed 4 squids... its a useless spell!

4) Magic Defense - bring a scroll. Its almost like Orc magic is the natural counter to our army! Look out for hand of gork which can (and will) drop a SOrc horde behind your lines! The posion spell whihc can have seemingly harmless gobbos killing us on 5+ and of course....Foot of Gork! This bugger kept rolling and rolling and utterly destroyed both my maneater blocks! (course the Shaman was then sucked into the warp!!)

5) Magic Items - I've never taken Runemaw but if i was list building i would as it can deflect so much harm form an importnat unit! Hellheart could be fun to mess up his shaman ASAP? Other Tricksters shard - very usefull when dealing with the SOrc horde!!

Hey guys! Played my second game agains Orcs & Gobbos.
Ran a list I am not very proud of... Gut hoard! with a unit of MFC to back them up.
Yes that was it lol
Anyway, like I said playing my second ever game against them. I won the first game easily with a properly built and thought out list. However this time he ran 3 units of Night gobbos (with fanatics!) and a hoard of savage orcs with a general and that 100pt banner that nulifies magic items (not good).
So suffice to say I had no way to set the fanatics off except with charging... boy did that hurt! 6 Iron guts died and all 4 MFC died to Fanatics and the gobbos fled! leaving me open to a charge by the Sorcs in his turn. He dispel scrolled my guts and dispelled my tooth cracker.
On his turn he irrisistably cast ALL of his spells! including hand of gork on his pump wagon. The one that makes him re-roll misses on his Savage orcs + general and a few others that did not come into play.
Suffice to say out of 45 attacks 40 hit and 32 wounded with no saves from my guts!
So long story short, what is everyones answer to fanatics!? Usualy I run a sabre up and set them off, but its not always reliable. I just have difficulty dealing with them. Also squigs seem so cheap for so much destruction!? They really do take a bite out of your army! Immune to psych makes it even worse I cant Brain gobbler my problem away lol
 
Chris

Against fanatics sabres are still your best bet in our list with small units of throw away units of gnoblars.

Make sure you hide your cats as much as possible and dealing with SO (though against these I prefer leading them astray because of frenzy) and Squig Herds are done with putting chars in the front.

Str5 attacks on T5 characters with protection is not hot at all.

I have contemplated dual blaster and 2 units of 8 Leadies instead of my MFC. Also thought about a tanky tyrant and some throw away gnoblars to just speed bump his SO's away from the battle. Allowing my tyrant and his unit - Ogres or guts (undecided) - to hit what they want
 
Thoughts? I will make a list and post it up tomorrow if there are any more hints/tips?
 
Chris

The savages have to overrun due to frenzy.. give them a saber with a crazy turn and ignore them or flank charge them.

The squig hoard hits hard but has poor Ld. Get it away from the general and you just need to win by 1. I have done it with a charge from an ironblaster. Small frontage, high toughness, impact hits.. pop goes the squigs if yer lucky. If the general is with the savages this isn't too hard.

Running a firebelly out to flame template squig hoards also works. Firebelly could also be sacrificed to lure out fanatics, and may live.

Sabres really do shine very well in this matchup because there are so many options for them. They can kill war machines fairly easily due to most of them being run by goblins (and these war machines can be pretty terrifying), lure out fanatics prematurely, stop mangler squigs (my favorite tactic), redirect savages, and can survive and perform quite well in killing annoying goblin BSBs or shamans.

63 points to ruin your opponent's strategy is more than worth it in this matchup (especially seeing how suiciding onto a mangler nets you about triple the sabres price in points....)