Archive - Ogre Kingdoms Vs Orcs and Goblins

Summary from the old forum:

- Zuggut the FAT


- miketheogre

thax for all the tips.I think your right on like all of it, but i havent been playin too long so i dont know much(but this helps alot)

take some gnoblars trappers and deploy them behind his night gobbos and let the fanatics come out very early so they maibe turn back and hit greenskins

or is this dump? it jnust a thought..

fels

I don't think its dumb, in theory it should work quite well, but if the dice just ain't on your side, you could end up causing more damage(depending where the fanatics are, and where your set-up in comparisson. Also, I have a question, how would you suggest to deal with magic, considering how much they have?

This is a fantastic idea, one I use against my Orc and Gobbos friend quite often in fact. What's funny is the Fanatics usually end up doing a fantastic amount of damage to his own troops (since they're flying around his back lines) than your own.

Trust me, he'll hate you, you'll love it.

That is a good tactic, if your opponent is dumb enough to put his night goblins at a flank.

Black orcs have a S6 great weapon or 2 S4 attacks
Both are not nice to get against, so be sure you win the combat against them.

Use your magic against them,
Panic and the 2D6 S2 attacks will kill goblins enough.

I dont think that goblins fanatics will be too easy to get rid of when the new book comes out later this year.

The new OG models look great !  This will be the first time GW is going to make a Lord Level Character entirely out of plastic.  Also, this will be the first that I think a special character will be made out of plastic too.  
Also, the new Black Orcs rules are great.  They basically have slayer axes now !

I think that OK will have a tough time against the new army rules.

The O&G army will have agreat loss to.The Fanatics 8" rule will disapear.Now they will shoot the Fanatics in the Shooting Phase instead of that they come out when you are 8" from them .
They will be easier at some times actually.

Ho'All!

Well, this is it.  My army is all but finished (doing some detail work on a few last ones).

My first game with them is next week (Monday, the 11th) against Orcs and Goblins.  My opponent is likely to take almost anything in their list as he's got just about everything.

I've read all of the above advice...  is there anything else I should be wary of or any general hints?  I'm pumped and can't wait!

My list is as follows:

1700 points (1703 to be exact)

Bruiser, tenderiser, HA, luck gnoblar

Butcher, bloodcleaver, wyrdstone

Hunter & 2 cats, greatskull, gnoblar thiefstone

5 bulls, XHW (probably butcher here)

3 bulls, XHW

4 IG (probably bruiser here), SB, Ragbanner

25 gnoblars

2 leadbelchers

2 leadbelchers

3 yhetees

1 gorger

I can't wait...  my first game as an ogre...   at long last!  Wish me luck!  I'll of course post a BR, whether positive or negative...

Tormund

Try running your hunter infront of a gobbo unit with fanatics 1st turn, then charge the cats next turn and get them to release fanatics...Just an idea...

Kill squigs with a bull unit or your hunter, Challenge his general with tenderiser and send him back to the great green where he belongs!

Also....gobbos are being toned down to be balanced. And being balcanced for night gobbos means they are nerfed.


Don't get me wrong. The rumoured changes mean that all night gobbo armies will be balanced. But i'll just say stuff bout fanatics.

They do S5 hits armour peircing.

The shooting phase thing.

Another "rumour" is that asfter they are out and spinning like mad men if they hit another unit they are killed like they hit trees. You wtill take the hits but after that they die. They don't carve through you like a hot sppon scraping our a blob of butter.

The Fanatic rumor I've seen says they don't automatically die when hitting another unit. The enemy unit can "choose" to take an extra d6 S5 AP hits and kill the fanatic. So d6 hits when struck, and an extra d6 hits to kill him. OUCH!
Squig hoppers and squig herds are seperated again. S5 2 attacks for a squig, pretty nasty. 15 points for a hopper, 40 for 3 squigs and a herder.

With Skull Pass being released,I'm sure Night Goblins(along with fanatics) will be more common.
Spider riders are rumored to be M7 and poison attacks.

Too bad they toned down the night gobbos. But at least they are balanced now (why do they have to be 3 whole pts!!!)

I like having a single maneater w/ GW against O & G to hunt chariots. If nothing else it at least keeps them away from his proximity and 86 - 90  points isn't too bad a cost.

Bruiser/Tyrant with GW and Longstrider is also good for chariot duty, albeit more expensive.

Butcher is good in slightly larger battles, all the spells are useful, 'specially braingobbler. Bonecruncher is a bit so-so.

MSU is the way to go, I've tried with big scary units but they really need some flanking help anyway and small units of bulls can handle that situation almost as well as the big ones do.

'belchers are not optimal vs O & G since many of their units are so cheap they're just not worth the risk of misfire to shoot at.

Just picked up the new O&G book. The one thing that sticks out as something to beware of for Ogre players is the "pipes of doom". Causing monsters within 24" to panic.... eesh. taking the "ragbanner" may be  must against an orc and goblin army.
good luck
-gravy

Ogres are not monsters

ogre's are no monsters

ogre's are no monsters

Against gobbos especially take some butchers. braingobbler is REALLY useful. i have versed my brother twice in 500 pts and used a butcher. both battles my butcher took out at arounf half his army.

The shooting phase rumor isn't true. It is still 8". That means, release the trappers! 

7th edition funny stuff for orcs:
big un savage boar boyz with spears with the banner of butchery have 5 attacks S5 on the charge per model!
Break down:
boarboy has 1 attack
frenzy gives him the second
banner gives him the third.
The boar has S5 on charge ( tuskcharge) one attack.
Frenzy gives him the extra attack ( only khorne mounts don't get the extra attack)
Banner gives the rider an extra attack on the charge.

6 of them charge without champion for about 220 points with 30 S5 attacks!!!
They still have a descent 4+AS and a 6+ WS

They should be using choppas though, instead of spears, because the choppas come free. They'll still get S5. And they'll get the good armor save (3+ if cavalry get the handweapon and shield bonus, 4+ if they don't. I don't use cavalry and thus don't know).

I played against an O&G army this weekend and the Boar Boys were set up just like that.  I managed to keep them off on a flank for most of the battle but they hit hard.  I think the + strength rule on the Choppa only applies to foot troops or at least that is how they guy I was playing read it.

I had a lot of luck with Leadbelchers against his mounted troops.  I wiped out 2 units of spider riders but could not get a shot at the Boarz.

I pretty sure you're right about the strength bonus not applying when orcs are mounted on boars.

Yup, I was wrong.
Another thing you have to watch out for with orcs and goblins is their speed. Especially if you play ogres and rush 8-12" right at them. With the combination of animosity (the +d6" result), the Waaagh! special rule, and the Waaagh! spell the greenskins can be on top of you before you know it. I used the Waaagh! rule and Waaagh! spell first turn against some Dark Elves, and gave them no time to manuever, forcing charges they couldn't win. I got a massarce.

Against Orcs and Gobbos your main troops should be bulls with extra hand weapons and have a couple of guts to take on the harder units like trolls or a block of black orcs. Also watch out for those boar boyz on the charge they can be very devastating and ive seen an opponent be on the recieving end of them and he got crushed  .
Also your best friend against NG or Goblin armies that are lead by either a NG or Goblin Lord is braingobbler. Cast it and watch as his generals unit runs off the table. Also another useful spell is bullgorger for the bulls. Cast that on them and watch them hit goblins and NG on 3+s and then wound them on2+s with 4 attacks eack neg 2 to there save  .
Against there chariots and the such which can cause mayhem i'd reccomend using a bull unit as a screen and if they charge u just flee away!! All i can think of now. One last thing cast trollguts were necessary as the O G missile fire can be devastating if it hits!!

To beat the greenies you need:

a) Gorgers. Gorgers are your friends here 'gainst all things with killing blow and unbreakable
b) Gnoblers. Big gnobler units can hold up orc units long enough for bulls or guts to arrive.
c) Butchers: Gut magic goood.....
d) Leadbelchers. 'gainst big units, like boyz, on good rolls, 5 belchers fire off 50 shots. 50 shots goood.....
e) Siegebreaker. Puts out lots of str. 10 attacks (giantbreaker & siegebreaker combo)
f) Just 'bout anything else in the OK army list.
g) Yhetees. Just imagine the carnage an avalanche of 3 Yhetees w/ Greyback can cause.
h) Hellheart. The Hellheart is your buddy here. Gobbos rolling on Butcher table, just sit back and enjoy.

Try out these ideas next time you fight the WAAAAGH!

If its an orc only army with no gobbos i'd try taking way more guts than bulls. A ogre bull would be wounding on 4+s and a irongut on twos and you should mainly get the charge against them. My bruiser with 3 guts smashed a 20 man unit of orcs with additionaly choppas FC and a bsb 
If they take gobbos take bulls with additional hand weapons and then cast bullgorger on them watch those gobbos die from str 5 attacks. Priceless 

Just a note you might want to watch out for the foot of mork spell, along with mork wants ya. These can crush a ogre army I played 2 games today and one game his orc shaman had the foot of mork (has a chance of hitting multiple units) and then his ng shaman had foot of mork as well as mork wants you. These are high strength attacks that can take out your numbers fast.

Just my two cents.

(on a side note I got my butt handed to me, a unit of night gobbo's with spears took out over half my army with the help of one unit of ork boys. I was really surprised, but also had bad rolling so what can you do).

Easily the scariest thing O&G can field against you is boar boys. Be careful of any character in the unit - the addition of the ironback boar enchanted item (d3 st5 impact hits) is nasty, topped off with banner of butchery and I fear nothing we have will stand up to this charge.

Against Orcs and Gobbos your main troops should be bulls with extra hand weapons and have a couple of guts to take on the harder units like trolls or a block of black orcs. Also watch out for those boar boyz on the charge they can be very devastating and ive seen an opponent be on the recieving end of them and he got crushed  .
Also your best friend against NG or Goblin armies that are lead by either a NG or Goblin Lord is braingobbler. Cast it and watch as his generals unit runs off the table. Also another useful spell is bullgorger for the bulls. Cast that on them and watch them hit goblins and NG on 3+s and then wound them on2+s with 4 attacks eack neg 2 to there save  .
Against there chariots and the such which can cause mayhem i'd reccomend using a bull unit as a screen and if they charge u just flee away!! All i can think of now. One last thing cast trollguts were necessary as the O G missile fire can be devastating if it hits!!

To beat the greenies you need:

a) Gorgers. Gorgers are your friends here 'gainst all things with killing blow and unbreakable
b) Gnoblers. Big gnobler units can hold up orc units long enough for bulls or guts to arrive.
c) Butchers: Gut magic goood.....
d) Leadbelchers. 'gainst big units, like boyz, on good rolls, 5 belchers fire off 50 shots. 50 shots goood.....
e) Siegebreaker. Puts out lots of str. 10 attacks (giantbreaker & siegebreaker combo)
f) Just 'bout anything else in the OK army list.
g) Yhetees. Just imagine the carnage an avalanche of 3 Yhetees w/ Greyback can cause.
h) Hellheart. The Hellheart is your buddy here. Gobbos rolling on Butcher table, just sit back and enjoy.

Try out these ideas next time you fight the WAAAAGH!

If its an orc only army with no gobbos i'd try taking way more guts than bulls. A ogre bull would be wounding on 4+s and a irongut on twos and you should mainly get the charge against them. My bruiser with 3 guts smashed a 20 man unit of orcs with additionaly choppas FC and a bsb 
If they take gobbos take bulls with additional hand weapons and then cast bullgorger on them watch those gobbos die from str 5 attacks. Priceless 

Just a note you might want to watch out for the foot of mork spell, along with mork wants ya. These can crush a ogre army I played 2 games today and one game his orc shaman had the foot of mork (has a chance of hitting multiple units) and then his ng shaman had foot of mork as well as mork wants you. These are high strength attacks that can take out your numbers fast.

Just my two cents.

(on a side note I got my butt handed to me, a unit of night gobbo's with spears took out over half my army with the help of one unit of ork boys. I was really surprised, but also had bad rolling so what can you do).

Easily the scariest thing O&G can field against you is boar boys. Be careful of any character in the unit - the addition of the ironback boar enchanted item (d3 st5 impact hits) is nasty, topped off with banner of butchery and I fear nothing we have will stand up to this charge.

Last weekend I played a game, I had 3 leadbelchers that got charged by a 12 strong unit of savage boar boys. I think I had 1 wound left on the belcher, and he made the snake eyes panic test. I thought that their standing and shooting would have done better, I really didn't know what to expect when they charged. I didn't think they'd do that much damage to be honest. but luckily I had a unit of iron guts and a tooled up tyrant that flank charged them.

the best bet I guess is to be able to hold against them with lucky rolling (I have crappy luck with dice, and have never failed a panic test)

You are lucky that belcher survived and held, boar boyz on the charge are nasty (more so if he equipped them right; big 'unz and banner of butchery).

Im not sure if anyone has already said this but I believe that Ironguts would be alot more effective against the greenies than bulls. Mainly due to the fact they wound on 2's and laugh at their 4+ Save.

CHeers,
Grog.

I would personally take as many terror causing units/characters as possible.  I would want a lot of leadership checks from them as I believe they will fail quite a few.  Watch the squig hoppers they can do some nasty work to a unit.

Thanks,
JC

Always try to panic their biggest models first. Panicing a goblin unit does nothing, as they are cheap and don't matter and due to the "Size Matters" rule won't panic orcs, which are cheap, but kill alot.
With the new rule book orcs are surprisingly fast, and their M4 really doesn't make them much slower than ogres. Watch out for their bursts of speed (Waaagh! and Waaagh!, as well as animosity), and the charge. Orcs rule on the charge.

My usual opponent - O&G nowadays.

He fields an orc only army.

I find them tough, but TOUGH AIN'T ENOUGH.

Wolf chariots, on the other hand, are a completely diffrent story.

Yesterday: Round 1, sends one of these cheap bastards into my unit containing butcher and 3 ironguts.
6 wound later, my right flank is gone.

It was a draw, but these chariots really piss me off.

They always neutralise my yhetees also.

Hate them.

That's why I started using leadbelchers.

2 X 2, instead of vanilla bulls only.

Not only they are better at diverting charges, but they also kill off even medium cavalry, and excel at destroying wolf chariots.

Great buy in my book from now on. 

i never have trouble with orcs, my fear either causes them to run away or i trounce them in combat. I usually size up my guys against his, Gnoblars vs. goblins, Ogres vs. orc boys, ironguts vs. Black orcs and my tyrant against his boss. Only the black orcs cause me trouble, but everything else i eat for breakfast.

Black orcs are the bane of many things and black orc bosses are even worse.Avoid like the plague or blast them to kingdomkum with some leadbelchers

There are a lot of Night Goblin armies making the rounds at the moment...   Some useful tactics i've found against them is to rush a small unit of Bulls right up the middle - to within 8" of as many units of NG's as you can (obviously to bring out the Fanatics...).  Trappers are good for this as well.

Nets can really hamper your ability to do decent wounds with Normal Bulls - so definaltey up the number of Iron Guts.

Gorgers also work well if you can get a rear charge... Most NG armies really need to bunch up their units to benefit from the general's LD - so if you bring Gorgers on from the rear, even if he turns around a unit (which he shouldn't do if you are threatening the front of the unit) - you can usually charge the back of something.  Most of the time, once a Gorger is in the back of a unit of Gobbs - he is there for good... unbreakable and T5 means that the Gobbos will rarely be able to wound...

A Butcher with Skullmantle and Braingobbla is VERY useful here - target units outside the general's 12" range, or flanking units, and you will have a lot of success.

The big aggressive units that can hurt you in NG armies are Squig Hoppers, Herders, and Trolls (usually Stone Trolls).   Stone Trolls are fairly easy for Ogres to dispatch, although they may require a character or two in the unit of Iron Guts to ensure the job is done is one turn (or you will get counter-charged by the Genera's unit)...   Herders just need to be taken down as a priority - Leadbelchers are good for this, also for taking on Hoppers.   The biggest problem unit I've found in Night Goblins is the Hoppers...  Normally they are run down a flank for 1-2 turns, before turning into the main Ogre battle line.  Because they don't charge like normal, they can technically charge a flank even if they originally started with the majority in the front - and they also benefit from 360" LOS.  You really need to dedicate something to take these guys on... because they can rings around you with their movement, a unit with combo firepower (like Maneaters with Handguns) works well - if the Hoppers don't roll high enough to get out of your LOS - you can charge, if they do roll high enough, you can turn and fire, etc...

in an all assult army list against the orcs, (no butchers) the orcs will be a assult list too. what would be better to take a a gorger or giant.ill be taking Rhinox riders too since ill be saving points from the butchers

Maneaters!!!

Maneaters!!!

Why do you find Maneaters such a good choice against O&G's?  Or is this just a general preference?

Thanks,
JC

I can't see how maneaters would be any better than ironguts (or leadbelchers) vs the greenskins, and why you'd want to lose your gorgers for them.

Me neither.
Against anarmy who can set up 3 boltthrowers against every elven boltthrower ( given 5 points) the gorger can have a much better chance.
The shooting and magic from Orcs ( but especially ) goblins will cause panic tests and that will have your maneaters charging on their own.
And that isn't good enough.

ok guys, after a little help in dealing with orcs in smaller points games after i got beaten about the table by someone... at 1k he completely outclassed me (thoguh i didnt pass a single Ld test resulting in my ironguts leaving before combat and my butcher exploded)... he fielded (roughly) 60 orcs in 3 units, 10 boar boys, 2 shamans and a boss

So, any tips for dealing with the greenskins at low points where at low points the advantages seem to be theirs... i was outclassed in magic, i was unable to tip combats my way as he was able to guard his flanks with more units and terrain, and my Ld failed me miserably at every opportunity, in fact the only thing that excelled themselves were the gnoblars (running down a full orc block single handedly)

So, was this just "one of those games" or will this be an army i am likely to suffer against?

I find Braingobbler and Toothcracker really useful against those Greenskins(Especially Night Goblins).

A unit of regular bulls that have been toothcracked are being wounded by Goblin weapons on 6s, and they're stubborn, meaning the Goblin Rank bonuses lose their major effect. A Tyrant/Bruiser with Mawseeker and Toothcracker is stubborn and immune to all strength 3 weaponry, though I don't tend to use this as I find it a bit cheesy.
Braingobbler can make those silly low-leadership greenskins test on their below average leadership, and just get the to flee as far as they can. Good targets for this are cavalry, as they have more chance of fleeing through other units as they roll 3D6.

ok guys, after a little help in dealing with orcs in smaller points games after i got beaten about the table by someone... at 1k he completely outclassed me (thoguh i didnt pass a single Ld test resulting in my ironguts leaving before combat and my butcher exploded)... he fielded (roughly) 60 orcs in 3 units, 10 boar boys, 2 shamans and a boss

So, any tips for dealing with the greenskins at low points where at low points the advantages seem to be theirs... i was outclassed in magic, i was unable to tip combats my way as he was able to guard his flanks with more units and terrain, and my Ld failed me miserably at every opportunity, in fact the only thing that excelled themselves were the gnoblars (running down a full orc block single handedly)
So, was this just "one of those games" or will this be an army i am likely to suffer against?

Maybe you already have the answer.  Try taking more small units of bulls so that you can take more gnobbos.  You may only get one or two hammer units then, but that may be enough.  I'd be tempted to still try to fit in something that causes terror, either a tyrant with scars or a giant.  At least give it a try.

Thanks,
JC

well, since we are talking low points - tyrant is out

I don't see anything in the list composition that makes this army stand out as unbeatable by a standard Ogre army. don't over-extend yourself, but keep a good spread and maintain your line. Butcher with bangstick will give you as many power dice as he has dispel dice, plus you have a bound spell; having your butcher explode was just horrible luck. Even one spell per round could have been all the difference if you had toothcracker on the right unit or braingobble one of his low-LD shaman away.

I would chalk it up to "one of those games". There is no way to prevent 2 shaman working together from causing a panic test somewhere - and if your Ironguts don't pass it and don't rally... plus losing your butcher to a miscast - you had a bad game. Don't lose faith in your guts and don't make drastic changes when none are needed.

Hey,

Ive just started Ogre Kingdoms about 4 years ago and ive been in around 20 battles 17 of which have been against a O&G army. Every time my ogres do alright and ive had a few wins but i lose alot and this is due to the fact that in almost all close combat battles my Ogres keep fleeing, there has to be some rule or trick that will allow me to win the combat resolution at least once.

Ogre man

First off, welcome to the Stronghold Ogre_Man.
As to losing all your combats, it's down to static CR. Greenskins have alot of static CR, normally 5 (3 for ranks, 1 each for outnumber and standard), and to top that off orcs are actually pretty good in combat, and gobbos (at least night gobbos) have alot of tricks up their sleeves to make you suck in combat (netters mostly). This means you have to do 6 wounds to win combat, and with only 9 attacks hitting on 4's and wounding on 4's (or 3's against gobbos), the odds are not in your favor. Which is why you flank them. Getting an ogre unit in the flank of the greenskin block will not only remove their rank bonus, but it'll give you a point of CR (tipping the scales to 2 vs 1 CR before wounds). And if you get a unit in the front as well, you are doubling your attacks.

Last weekend I played a game, I had 3 leadbelchers that got charged by a 12 strong unit of savage boar boys. I think I had 1 wound left on the belcher, and he made the snake eyes panic test. I thought that their standing and shooting would have done better, I really didn't know what to expect when they charged. I didn't think they'd do that much damage to be honest. but luckily I had a unit of iron guts and a tooled up tyrant that flank charged them.

the best bet I guess is to be able to hold against them with lucky rolling (I have crappy luck with dice, and have never failed a panic test)

You are lucky that belcher survived and held, boar boyz on the charge are nasty (more so if he equipped them right; big 'unz and banner of butchery).

Im not sure if anyone has already said this but I believe that Ironguts would be alot more effective against the greenies than bulls. Mainly due to the fact they wound on 2's and laugh at their 4+ Save.

CHeers,
Grog.

thanks for the advice, i think ill try that next battle.

Send your Lb's in first to take out there ranks. Then send a bigger unit in after it. Then another.

that doesnt always work mori cause it would have to fire the LB's and then during the time in the enemies turn they could charge the LB's or one of the bigger units.

Fortunately leadbelchers have a fire range longer than greenskin infantry can charge. The cavalry could charge you, but as greenskin cavalry isn't that well armored a single leadbelcher volley would be devastating.

My friend does O&G's so I was thinking about the fanatics and I was thinking of making the gnoblers go first to get the fanatics out, even if the Gnoblers run away you don't take a panic test and the guys are out so you can get fast units to go and bet the crack out of the Goblins.

My friend does O&G's so I was thinking about the fanatics and I was thinking of making the gnoblers go first to get the fanatics out, even if the Gnoblers run away you don't take a panic test and the guys are out so you can get fast units to go and bet the crack out of the Goblins.

Sounds workable to me.  The only negative will be that your ogres will have to slow down in order to let the gnobbos proceed and pray to the Maw that they don't bicker!

Thanks,
JC

Beware the fact that he can ignore your gnoblars and throw his fanatics to their flanks and block your ogres.

My friend does O&G's so I was thinking about the fanatics and I was thinking of making the gnoblers go first to get the fanatics out, even if the Gnoblers run away you don't take a panic test and the guys are out so you can get fast units to go and bet the crack out of the Goblins.

Sounds workable to me.  The only negative will be that your ogres will have to slow down in order to let the gnobbos proceed and pray to the Maw that they don't bicker!

Thanks,
JC

And that is why you use trappers.
They can be within 8" of the unit in turn 1, they don't block your ogres and that is even better, because your ogres are nowhere near any fanatic for one or two turns.

Only thing with the trapers is where he puts the Goblins it could be in open terrain or next to his units and that would be hard to do that.

A trick I have tried with Gorgers is to bring them on and activate the opponents Fanatics using Terrain to protect the Gorgers.

Chariots kill with tyrant, Siegebreaker Butcher or IG's with the Strength spell.

As an O&G player, I'll tell you what EVERY greenskin general has going for them: STATIC CR!
With an EASY 25+ models a unit, we will have outnumber, 3 ranks, and (in most combat effective units) a standard. Even in those little 64 point unit of night goblin archers, we have outnumber and three ranks if you don't take out a single goblin before combat. Even with 4 bulls with additional HW, here's the numbers crunched:

16 attacks WS3 Vs. WS2, 4's to hit.
8 hits, STR4 Vs. T3 (assuming no nets), 3's to wound.
That's aprox 5 wounds if you round down (which is best when crunching numbers so you don't overestimate your chances).
With 5 static CR, all they have to do is one wound back if they have spears...
If it's archers, you've just beaten them if you have 4 bulls and a standard.  (4 to 6)

And if they have spears and nets:
8 hits, STR3 Vs. T3, 4's to wound
4 wounds total, no saves
6 attacks back.
Combat will be utterly lost.

I never calculate with impact hits, because any competent infantry general will just cram his units down your throat when you are getting ready to charge, knowing he can do nothing to stop the charge, but negating those impact hits will certainly allow him to win in most cases.

You've already lost combat before they even swing, and even if you have a banner, you've just matched them before they attack. Here's the BEST thing to do: Combo charge with units of 3 bulls, XHW, and bellower. This will get you US 18, 16 attacks, and you should be able to pop most units of 20-22 with nets down to below 18 with a little bit of luck, and they will autobreak from you winning just slightly.

Orcs are even worse, with STR 4 even if you charge, T4, and a 4+ armor save, you'll need to bust out the 'guts for these baddies. And any competent Orc general will have a Black Orc character keeping these green meanies moving across the board. With a 1+ armor save even with a magic weapon, they are pretty nasty, even the hero level ones.

Let's crunch some numbers for Orcs:
16 attacks WS3 Vs. WS3, 4's needed
8 hits, STR4 Vs. T4, 4's needed
4 Wounds, 4+ Armor, reduced to 5+, 2 save (round to the benefit of the enemy so you don't underestimate them)
2 wounds dealt.
3 attacks back, probably 1 wound, and 5 Static CR for a total of 6.
You have 2 CR for kills.
Without banner, you're looking at being down by 4... you're breaking, even if the general is close. With a character, your odds still aren't very good.

Let's try with Ironguts:
12 attacks, WS3 Vs. WS3, 4's needed
6 hits, STR6 Vs. T4, 2's needed
5 wounds, no saves, no attacks back.
That's much better. With a Standard, you've just barely won, but expect him to stick. With the War banner, you've got good odds you will win. Throw in a nasty combat character to help that unit break that much easier.

As for Greenskin shamans, they have horrible leadership, so if they stray too far from the general, punish them with braingobbler, if you can get it off. Leadbelchers keep them from running around on their own. As for fanatics, just either run up a unit to draw them out, or just learn to take them. They are going to hit SOMETHING, and you sitting there trying to draw them away and move around them gives the Greenskin player more time to shoot. I say take an extra model in your units, and expect him to die from the juiced up loonies, or lots of leadbelchers to stop at 8 inches and blow them to pieces.

You're going to be hard pressed to get a single spell off all game however. If there is a single Orc unit on the table, the BSB will be in there, with the Mork standard that generates dispel dice equal to rank bonus. The optimal character setup IMO would be 2 butchers, one bangstick, one skullmantle, both powerstones. This will allow you to get off those crucial spells when you need to. I'd say throw two dice per butcher at one spell that looks nasty, forcing him to take three dice to dispel it (unless you roll low) and use those last dice to try to get off what you need to. Spells to look at trying to get off are Braingobbler (on units operating outside of general's leadership), bullgorger, and toothcracker. Stubborn, extra STR, and extra T will go far vs. this army.

TAKE A BSB VS THIS ARMY. Most people say BSB's are usless in Ogres, but against large blocks, I disagree. With their low fighting capablities in most cases and high static CR, you won't lose by too much, and that reroll just might keep you there to hack them up next turn (hopefully with less ranks and / or losing their outnumbering bonus). Never take big blocks of Ogres, because when they bounce, you just lost a LOT of points, and you don't get hardly anything for that 500 point unit of fully ranked ogres that a greenskin general cannot negate.

Also, do not deploy wide! Bunch up, and bust through his line. if you can divide his line, he will have a hard time swinging his blocks around to face the breach and you can just roll up both sides from the inside out. Just remember to take the right Ogres for the right job.

Hope this helps.

Hi guys, thought I might cross post this from my blog where people looking for it can find it
 
Note: I don't like tailoring list so will try and keep it generic

Ogre's vs Orcs and Goblins

First of all lets look at the general rule's and attributes. Animosity can be a real pain with the greenies but a competent general will be able to deal with it. Basically the most common way to do this is send two units to do the one job, blasting one of these units of the table can cause panic and increase the effective chance of not being able to do what they are interested in from 1/36 to 1/6.
 On the matter of panic the size matter's rule make's O&Gs quite safe from having half the army disappear off the table. You need to keep this in mind when picking targets with our limited shooting.

Orc Boyz

Waaagh! make's the M4 orcs deceptively quick, as long as you keep it in mind it shouldn't be too much of a problem. Remember the animosity and waagh spells as well. Moving potential 3D6 is scary. They are nasty on the charge though punching 10 S4 attacks, and 5+ static combat res. Best double up on them and try to knock of a rank or two. Also the standard MSU stuff is essential or a nasty unit of maneaters

Savage orc boyz

These guys are primary used with spears and a BSB near by to take hits from nasty units. Be aware and cautious. They can potentially rip apart even man eaters with the banner of butchery. Well worth knocking off a rank or two. Do not charge head on and bait 

Goblins

Not used much anymore, night goblins being much more interesting. With shields they can be effective at such a low cost however. They don't benefit from waagh! as much and there isn't a lot to be afraid of, bulls are going to be hitting and wounding on 3s but don't think you will always win in a strait up fight. And once you do you won't necessarily be outnumbering so if the generals around the can happily hold. Knocking of a rank or two then hitting them with a unit of 4 should suffice.

Fast cavalry

These guys come in two sorts. Wolfs for out and out speed or spider's to ignore terrain. Neither unit are particularly tough or strong but they can cause a word of annoyance. A la` leadbelcher's! The best unit by far to deal with them, in shooting or combat, with an effective range of 18"s it shouldn't be too hard.
 Failing that yhetee's can do the damage providing you can get the jump on them, scrappies also make good use, being able to amble along behind your line's shooting at the RnF and then charge the fast cav.
If your a little short on them it going to have to be butcher's. All our offensive spells will prove effective provided you can get them through.
 Oh, and Maneaters with Boh should wear them down nicely though there ae going to be lots of targets to choose from

Night Goblins

These guys have a lot more potential then the common or garden varity. The fanatics will often cause more damage to his own troops then yours but a decent general knows and plans for this. Trappers are essential to release these guys as early as possible. If he shuts down the possible scouting position (not hard to do) yopu need to make some hard choice's. A gorger will do the job but only if he turns up straight away, protect him with terrain if possible and then head for the siege. If that's not possible tusks will do the job at a cheap price (free unless you lose the hunter) but they have a lot of potential against this army. Gnoblar fighters won't work so good due to there M4 and bicker which leave's yhetee's if you can do it through terrain or a cheap unit of ogre's.
 Nets can be a real pain hampering out fighting ability and savy general's will use the NGs right next to there orcs so you have to charge both units. They can even use 2 but at least all our good stuff is S4+ and will not be destroyed by having there S reduced to 0.

Medium Cavalry

Orc boar boyz (and big un's), big units of wolfs with shields and savage orc boar boyz fit into this category, they don't hit like heavy cavalry and are a bit of a misnomer. However against the static res sparse ogre's they can be a pain. They need to be baited or the frenzied type lead on a dance, preferably into terrain. Be aware of the 18" charge the wolfs have or your bait might end up dead and hammer in combat.

Heavy Cavalry

Savage orc boar boyz Big uns` are about the only thing that fit here. Combined with the banner of butchery they hit like a ton of bricks. Thankfully they are frenzied so trappers, tusks or bulls can be used a bait rather well. The also suffer from animosity and putting Blorc in the is rather silly due to there high cost and low model count. They also die rather easily so Bohs or even better Leadbelchers will ruin their day. I fact I would recommend placing LBx early so you can get him re-acting to your placement and funnel them into some MEs, trappers or toothcrackered IGs

Elite infantry

Orc Big un's` and Black orcs go here. The main thing to realize is they die just as easy to shooting so knock a rank off. The also die just as easily in combat so as long as you get the charge with multiple units they arn't scary. If you get the chance pinning them with a gorger is also nice and means you can thump the rest of his army and leave them till last.

Chariots

Lots of options here, first of all boar chariots. These guys are great at deploying alongside orcs and adding some extra punch. The are quite tough, twice as though as the wolfish kind albeit S7 works just fine. That's basically the best way to deal with them, bait and counter charge with S7. The same can be said for the wolfish kind but be aware of that 18" charge. Also remember your hammer unit can be a piece of terrain, this is quite handy leaving you more units to deal with his large army
 The other option players have with these guys is to use them in conjunction with cavalry adding the oomph. Similar tactics apply and it's really about getting the charge through baiting.

The US 5 version (Character) I would recommend shooting to death. It will cause panic and is going to have a nasty combat character or shaman stranded. Bohs and gut magic are the best bet.

Squig heard   

A ItP elite unit of infantry, these guys are similar. They die easy to shooting or combat. Getting the charge is key, so bring out your bait units

Squig Hoppas

These guys don't need Los to charge and can charge the flank even if they start in the front arc. They are also ItP. The best bet is bonecruncher or the bangstick overcoming that annoying -1 for skirmish. Failing that you can flee there charge as normal so bait and flee will work fine.

Siege   

The most common is the spear chucca's. These can turn out ogre's into kebabs so don't go presenting any flanks. Gorger's, tusk's or a sprint through some tree's by our yhetee's is the best bet. Just use terrain to your advantage in the initial turns
 Rock lobba's and doom diver's can be handled similarly, and unless he rolls well and can guess range's are not too terrible. Once you get close brain gobbla is nice as there raly in range of the general and right next to the board edge.

Trolls

No way to get through the the regen in our case  so mass slaughter is the only way. One novel way is to knock off the general and simply watch them droll. Not that common however and some people may run a goblin big boss on a wolf to help out with this. Bait, flee counter charge.

Pump wagons

Don't let it charge you and not much can go wrong. Remember S7 busts it.

Giant

A La` tyrant with tenderizer or beast killer. LS is the key. Remember he can't flee. Also sharp stuff can be really effective and cheap. Just remember the terror.

Wyvern

Not often seen below 2K cause he's either the general or forcing him to take a LD8 general. LBs will keep the fright in him or your tyrant will work just fine. S&S with MEs is also fun. Again remember the sharp stuff and terror.

Combat Characters

lots of good builds out there and HA, boar, shield give's them a decent save without chipping into the magic quota. Be aware of them solo charging out of RnF.

Magic

Potentially very good. The spirit totem can make getting out stuff through painful. Keep your scrolls for waagh!. Weak LD so if they stray punish with brain gobbla.

Summary and general points

Stick together, do not allow your units to be isolated and swamped.
The large targets are just asking for a tenderising/beastkilling
Release fanatics early with trappers preferably or naked bulls/gorger.
Watch out for gunline's, heavy magic. Gorger's and yhetee's hanging out the side of terrain away from bad stuff is the go. Use terrain.
Get the charge, get the win.
Be selective with your limited shooting
Bait and flee as always
Have fun!

Comments welcome

Scroth

Hi, first ty all these tips will help me a lot, i have play around 10 games against my freind and only manage to win 1battle and it was because he dint put is warmachine '' dam i hate the spearchukka''... but it was always low pts battle always around 500 to 1000pts max. But we will soon hold a 3.5k battle. I will tell you what he usely use and what i know he will use, after ill tell you what i have so if you can give any idea it will be really apreciate.

First he have a army only fill whit Orc, no gobbo at all exept on the warmachine, most of the time he boost all unit to big un ( same goes for the boarboyz ). I know he will also use Grimgore and his Immortal, lots of huge block of Black Orc, Black Orc Boss in other regiment to deal whit the animosity.
I know he will have at least 2chaman , one on boar and the other on a wyvren. I will also have to deal whit at least 4xSpearchukka(maybe more) pretty shure he is planning to use the gobbo doomdiver. Also have to deal whit is Giant... Im pretty stock here...

Here is what i have atm, i also plan to get maybe 3xYethee or/an what ever you will tell to get

-Greasus (but really not shure to use it, pretty good for the cost...but take my 2x Hero choice...)
-1xButcher/Slaugthermaster
-2xTyrant/Bruiser
-1xHunter whit 2kitty
-4xLeadbleacher
-1xGorger
-1xScrap Launcher
-3xManeater
-64xGnoblar (but i plan to convert some on trapper since i have read they are that good, not shure how many yet)
-6xBulls
-12xIronGuts (my IG can be use as Bull same goes on the other way, we play for fun and game perpus)

So how could i Set this ? what item to add on them ? And what should i get the most
Ty vm and if you dont understand all i try to tell dont feel bad lol, im french 

Alex

no 1 ?

The list looks good but I've always seen Greasus as a huge waste as you could have a Tyrant and a Slaughtermaster in his place and they would probably end up doing more for you.

That said though many O&G units suffer from low Ld - the stupidity that Greasus causes could be a real benefit.

I suppose but I think I'd rather count on a tyrants killing ability than that.

Try and deploy your gnobs on the same side of his giant.  40+ sharp stuff is always fun.  Terror could be an issue though.

Ironguts will be better for busting ranks than bulls will.  He's going to be relying on static CR to win combat mainly. 

If you bring your hunter, bring 2 units of 9 trappers to hunt warmachines and march block.

Scraplaunchers will be good for smashing his big blocks of orcs. 

An elite black orc army is perfect for you to flank and spank.  Not many units so you can use your mobility to set up your charges. 

Those spear chuckas are gonna' cause you fits, though. 

If you can somehow get the charge on those boar boys, you will break them easily.

Good luck in your game! I own both of these armies and it's a great match up! Like two heavy weight boxers meeting in the centre of the ring and duking it out! You'll have lots of fun.

P.S. "Flank and Spank" is a registered trademark of Chito inc.

When I play with my Greenskins, I want to hit combat with my slow but big and though core (usually 2 big blocks of shield orcs with a black orc big boss in both, and both supported by an orc chariot). I don't care if I get charged. I will hold and countercharge next turn. This does not work however If I can't survive a charge. A proper Ogre hammer unit is a thing to fear for da ladz, and I think you need it to blow a hole in their battleline head on. It's doable, they arn't that tough.

Next to the core, I field night goblins and lots of smaller units. Some are fast, some just hit. Some shoot. O&G have lots of cheap support units that will really get in your way. None of these can take care of an Ogre unit though, so you can opt to just ignore them, but beware disruption of your movement phase. Greenskins do great at that.

A thing to remember is that greenskins do not like leadership tests. Combined with the above on support troops, I think leadbelchers are a musthave versus an O&G army. Position, shoot units, hope to cause a lot of tests. Even if you only scare away goblins, it's good. Night goblins close to orcs are planned as support with nets. Scare away the nets and you'r doing nice.

I think it's basically about managing the movementphase and getting rid of anoyance like fanatics befire things get ugly. Nothing in the O&G is really a match for Ogres. Take the army apart bit by bit. We are fast, they are not. Those greenies that are fast as well are weak and not really brave (remember, we cause fear ) or are never used. We can afford to be "lured away", we have movement 6.

Ranged damage IS something to worry about. O&G can deal a good deal of this and still sport an impressive bulk of greenskin. I havn't played versus armies with lots of ranged stuff yet while playing Ogres, so can't really help there.

Dont  underestimate us greenskins we allways got a trick up are  sleevez

''we is green ,green is best''

Well my main opponent is an Orc & Goblin's general and let me first start by saying I love playing against the Orcs. He plays an Orc themed army, though for kicks he will throw in some NG's with netters and fanatics from time to time. I would say the units that generally give me a hard time are his faster units, ie boar boyz, and boar chariots. These two units really mash up my battle line. Waaagh! Is also something to always have in mind, as like everyone else has been saying it will make those M4 Orcs rocket across the field of battle. I agree too with all of the above tactics for getting rid of fanatics. I don't play much with gorgers unless I'm playing under 1k, I find the Terror from the Giant is much more effective as it has an AoE.
The Skullmantle in concert with braingobbler is also an effective way to mess up the their line. But my overall strategy is always this, I play a little cautiously watching and waiting as long as I can, generally I can hold out till turn 3 before I am in combat. Which I know sounds odd as an OK player, Ogre's on the D? No? But it works, eventually a unit will fail an animosity test, or Waaagh! incorrectly, or get hit by a wandering fanatic... but almost without fail there will be a break in his line and that is when I go in guns blazing. Like the Orc's we Ogre's are great on the charge and if executed correctly we can rip their line in half.
Beating OG's is all about trying to ride the wave of chaos for 6 turns and hope you come out on top, which with Leadbelchers (so crucial for holding your flank against chariots, boar boyz, and any other obnoxious fast cav they throw your way), well placed Terror pockets in your line, and a good magic phase and you should be fine. Our ability to force constant psychology  is really our best edge I think over OG's, use it man!

Hey ! My oponent i was asking advise Is here lol Ramgut ! Carfull he only have 1defeat in over 10years so i agree that green is good but we still are Bigger,tuffer and Bether Ram !
win : 151879465131316849845115
Lost : 1
I scrap your %

ogre are big and fierce warriors and i will never underestimate theme
but as warhammer players you must respect and fear evry army in the warhammer world
or thats y u will be unprepared and c your ogres fall

but remember  this, WE IS GREEN AND GREEN IS BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ramgut, we appreciate you getting into the spirit of your army and all that, but could you be a bit more constructive instead of just posting racial propaganda? You say you have tricks up your sleeves - what are those tricks exactly?

he wont reveal them until the campain we play is over lol would have been nice to know them a bit lol, but Giant dont take it the bad way he is not ''racist'' lol he just love is little green thing.... and yes ram.... you are green and green is best..... best then a hummy... but aint bether then a big fat gut plate

I am planing on running trappers and gorgers for this very reason, they also have other uses, but I will talk about them in other threads hehe.

Thanks for the information though, I know 7th ed OG well, do you know if they can do the same old tricks?

1st.)  Drop fanatics aim them toward you, but have them hit a cheap wolf unit plow straight through there and then you, with luck you only panic the goblins that released them, and have them drop back into your general's leadership.

2nd)  Do they still have goblin only potions that make you str 10?  I found it common that they would send that on a wolf into a target that needed to be popped. whole thing would cost like 50 points...

there are a few more that I can not remember right now sadly

1) Yes, they can still do the fanatic feed trick with small units between the Ngobbos and the target. 

2) I don;t recall them having something like this anymore.  The closest thing they have is a magical weapon that costs 100 points and it gives D6 bonus to strength as well as attacks but the model loses half that WS.
This is pretty nasty when it's run on a Gobbo warboss with a wolf (or Ngobbo warboss on cave squig).  They run it right up into an enemy character and whack him with a WS3 A8 S8 (when rolling 4 on the D6) gobbo just to kill of the enemy general or whatever.

This does cost a few points though.  around 200 for the whole shabang, and it comes out of your lord choices, but against armies like VC or TK it might just pay of if you can kill their Hyrophant/General.

I just played an O&G list today.  It was interesting, to say the least.  The list had 5 pump wagons, 6-7 units of Ngobs w/ two fanatics each, 13 (YES 13!) Ngoblin heroes all with GWs, a gobbo shaman (lvl 4), 5-6 bolt throwers, and a mangler squig.  I got smashed.  I ran 2 units of 9 bulls, a unit of 9 IGs, two units of gnoblars, butcher, bsb, tyrant, SM and two scrappies. 

The amount of str 5 d6/2d6 impact hits and fanatic hits was absolutely brutal, not to mention I was facing a veteran player.  My BSB bull unit evaporated when they got hit by two pump wagons, 13 wounds in total from 4d6 impact hits at str 5.  My 'Gut unit was the last to survive and got charged in the flank after overrunning into another unit.  By that point he had consolidated all but 2 of his heroes in two the two units my 'gut unit.  Even with the General's unit with 5 heroes failing it's fear check I got absolutely smashed. 

My opponent also dominated his magic phase as well.  He got a free dice every time he cast a spell and also got to steal a DD from me on a 4+ every time he successfully cast a spell.  He would roll two dice + his free one to get some non-essential spell off, force me to let it pass, and (with his rolls) most likely steal one of my die.  The magic wasn't overpowered, not at all, but it was still annoying.  Itchy nuisance prevented my scrapyp from flank charging into the gut 'star combat, got his flanking unit to reroll hits and gain armor piercing (proved to be my downfall, had this spell not gone off it would've been a different fight, I would've lasted one more turn!).

VIP of the game went to one of my Gnoblar units that passed their squabble check to run over 3 fanatics and a mangler squig!

I just don't know how to handle an army like that.  I was forced to charge them or be picked off and my opponent was smart enough to have blocking units that allowed him to get flank charges.  Not to mention 13 str 6 t4 heroes is just crazy in a 2500 list.

Was it a 3k + fight, or are pump wagons not special choices?   That is one huge thing that kept you on your heels, pump wagons are strong if they are the same as in 7th, no one panics if they die or flee through them and they can deal good damage for low points.

You almost always have to have some sort of scouting or unit that comes from the board edge I have found regardless of the army you play.  I do not build lists to play against certain armies or opponents, so I build them with a wide mix.  I find that helps a lot in tournaments.

I think two gorgers and a unit of trappers is very important even if the unit of trappers is small.  Their purpose is to rush units that can release fanatics and force them to throw them on your opponent's side of the board.  That means he has a greater chance of being hit than you.

I would also plan to play OG armies in the later rounds, as they tend to slow down after all their tricks are done.  Also unless they have changed it they are weak to panic, it is common to see units of 5 wolfs, use magic or ranged to blast that into the void to cause panic checks.

IMO with OG, once again if they are like 7th ed, they are so big they have spacing issues in deployment so striking them early and causing panic is brutal early on, or they are lots of Orcs and are brutal in combat and that requires you getting the upper hand on fights you pick.

That is my opinion and 100% theorycraft for 8th, but I have played against them in 7th a lot with a few armies.  I am just relating it to Ogres.

My opponent also dominated his magic phase as well.  He got a free dice every time he cast a spell and also got to steal a DD from me on a 4+ every time he successfully cast a spell. 

You might have been served there.  IIRC they only steal a DD on a 5+ not a 4+.  But other than that it is indeed a nasty piece of work list he had there.

Ah well, no harm there.  He was learning the army book and I told him that it was a 4+, good to know though.

I played against a 2500 point night goblin list last night, he had 2x50 units of NGs and 2 smaller units with bows and 9 trolls,3 spear chukkas,a rock lobber and a doom diver and one of those massive spiders. He also used Skarsnik who is just sick.
I got hit by Skarsniks ability twice (roll a d6 for every enemy unit that unit starts off the board on a 6), Turn 1 i lost 6 ironguts to the spear chukkas (105 points worth of warmachines).On my second turn i charged with everything i could and got hit in the face by 12 fanatics wiping out a unit of 10 bulls before they got to do anything. Once i hit combat he had netters in every unit (on a d6 roll of 2+ lose 1 strength) so my ogres were wounding Goblins on a 4 it sucked. It took me 4 rounds of combat to chew through his large units i won every round by a huge amount but just could not break him thanks to steadfast.

In the end i tabled him but it was looking like a win to him before i ever reached combat.

Things i learnt are
1: Fanatics are evil they will cripple any charging Ogre unit on just average rolls it is scary to watch.
2:Netters will really hurt you by removing one of Ogres advantages I.E high strength.
3:Watch out for the spell Blessings of the spider god it gives a unit poison, This is truely scary on a horde of Goblins with spears.
4:Don't be scared of the massive spiders we can kill them easily with Ironguts

My BSB bull unit evaporated when they got hit by two pump wagons, 13 wounds in total from 4d6 impact hits at str 5.

If Pump Wagons are the same as they were in 7th Ed. then they should only be Strength 4 for their impact hits, that's why they used to be so cheap; only the Gobbo and Orc Chariots were Strength 5.

If anything has changed then I'm definately going to be keeping an eye out for them in the future!

My BSB bull unit evaporated when they got hit by two pump wagons, 13 wounds in total from 4d6 impact hits at str 5.

If Pump Wagons are the same as they were in 7th Ed. then they should only be Strength 4 for their impact hits, that's why they used to be so cheap; only the Gobbo and Orc Chariots were Strength 5.

If anything has changed then I'm definately going to be keeping an eye out for them in the future!

There is now an upgrade that apparently boosts their strength to 5 and on the first impact hit of the game allows no armor saves.

O&G haven't changed much but they have changed in minor ways with the older units in the book.

The pump wagon is probably the coolest unit in WHFB with it's new rules.

You can pimp that thing out in so many ways, give it extra movement, more impact hits, wings (kinda), stronger impact hits and probably something else I can't remember of the bat right now.

Still have to get 3-4 'pimp my ride' wagons for my own O&G army.

Although when you start giving them 2 or 3 upgrades they do start to move up in the point cost, but it's definitly worth it.

Upgrading Pump wagons is pretty big imo.  That is taking the one of the better cheap trick units in the past, and making it stronger or a well shaped tool that has a purpose now.

While I am still learning how my Ogres work I have gone up against Orcs/Goblin and HE lists mostly. What I have found works the best for me personally is the no brainer scraplaunchers. A few times I have made blocks of the other players flee for a round and even if they do rally they just lost their fanatics. If they just get hit I have been averaging 10+ kills a shot if it lands on the unit.

The army I am running tonight against OnG has 2 scrappies and 2 butchers.

The scrappies should be able to do some damage, whilst the two butchers will cast bonecruncher in the first round or two.

One butcher has bangstick and the other has ruby ring of ruin. These basically allow me to cast 4 magic missiles per magic phase.

The one butcher also. Has rock eye. That should allow me to find out if my opponent is running those assassin things or fanatics and such.

All together I think I stand a good chance between 4 magic missiles and 2 scrappies of taking out or causing panic tests to the real problem units!

What do you think?

The army I am running tonight against OnG has 2 scrappies and 2 butchers.

The scrappies should be able to do some damage, whilst the two butchers will cast bonecruncher in the first round or two.

One butcher has bangstick and the other has ruby ring of ruin. These basically allow me to cast 4 magic missiles per magic phase.

The one butcher also. Has rock eye. That should allow me to find out if my opponent is running those assassin things or fanatics and such.

All together I think I stand a good chance between 4 magic missiles and 2 scrappies of taking out or causing panic tests to the real problem units!

What do you think?

Well, don't be worried about the assasin dudes, no sane o&g player will bring them along since it means taking normal goblins. fanatics are a given on the other hand. When it comes to getting magic off reliable I wouldn't count on it. The average greenskin will bring a lot of characters along ( my own night goblin horde's front rank has 7 character planted in it, simply because there need to be a command group as well.) and with the current rules it pays to bring a boatload of lvl 1 night goblin shaman to the table instead of going for higher level shamans. Expect from a smart player at least 4 or 5 shamans in total to the table ( the idea behind this is the added mushroom die takes away the need for the bonus from your lvl, and if one blows up due to the mushroom, it's only one lvl that dies, the rest still lives).

The scrappies are a given, o&g are, along with skaven, the most likely to run around with hordes. main advantage you have against them is mobility. That and most o&g players are hardpressed for space during deployment. That's where you can really try to take advantage of.

For ogres the biggest problem is that o&g can field potentially massively destructive stuff. the revamped pumpwagon, but also normal gobbo chariots (high move and still str5), any squig unit (higher I than your average ogre so very deadly) and some potentially dangerous infantry units such as savage orcs and even black orcs. Some of them, mangler squigs for example are units you could target with trappers, they only have t4 and w3 with no armor. But what army you'll be up against, the potential for lots of pain will be there. Most o&g armies follow the same basic set up. A few core units (big gobbo units, a big unit of big uns) for the characters to hide in (expect the whole spectrum, bsb, shaman army commander etc, o&g characters are cheap enough to just take everything rather than make choices). To the flanks usually a few n. gobbo units to deter you from going there and several hard hitting specials such as manglers/chariots/pump wagons/ trolls etc. There are no easy strangtforward ways of dealing with any specific set up but do remember that as soon as a gobbo unit has fled, even if it rallies, the fanatics are gone. It might save you some serious hurting with 2 scrappies if you manage to get one or 2 of the small fanatic delivery systems to break.

Thanks for the advise man, I will try to remember that all tonight.

This is my first game against the OnG, so I need to keep my head screwed on proper.

As far as I remember, the guy I'm playing tonight plays mostly gobbos.

I am running 2 blocks of bulls 6 each, and 2 characters in each, and a block of 10 IG full command. Also running 2 units 50 gnobbies.

Throw in the 2 scrappies also and there is an army.

What do you think?

Well, if at all possible try to avoid charging through fanatics, nowadays they die when you move over them but you get 2d6 hits rather than one, which can be, well, painfull for ogre units (3+ to wound, no save left). However, this does have an advantage, in that you can use gnoblar units to actively move through fanatics to clear the way for you ogres (trappers are very good for this). Also, against gobbo players it pays to remember the fear tests he has to make, with a max leadership of 8 for the army commander he's bound to fail some of em. All gobbo armies have the best destructive toys around but they severly lack leadership so it's relatively easy to just send them running. but I'd say take at least some units to deal wtih warmachines because his bolt thrower costs as much as your bull...(to give you an idea as to how easy warmachine spam is for them)

Also, it's not a weird idea to reform one of your gnoblar units into 5 wide and 10 deep when you 're the same combat with the gnoblar unit and an ogre unit, you'll lose some attacks from the 3rd rank but you'll deny his steadfast if he's in  horde formation himself.

(oh, and if he has an arachnarok, don't put a character in b2b contact with the critter, it's uberpoison can be VERY painfull for ogre characters. s5, poisoned, d6 wounds hit. Unless you feel very lucky with a standardizer and mawseeker, but even then, if he gets that 6...)