Enemy of the Month - Warriors of Chaos (2014)

Hey guys

Welcome to the first enemy of the month which we'll be focusing on tearing apart the likes of the Warriors of Chaos.  This is an Ogre Stronghold initiative, I'm not taking ownership of this, regardless of experience I want to hear from you, contribute no matter how minute your comment is, it matters.   

I'm setting out a very basic format at first but I've no doubt over the month of May this 'living' document will change several times so if you like/love/hate it please let me know and let's work it out and make it a fantastic resource for everyone.

Remember the below is just my initial views, experiences and thoughts, if you agree/disagree then please add to the conversation, justify what you've said and add I'll continually update the main document throughout the month before immortalising our work in the 'Know Your Enemy' forum.

Enemy of the Month – Warriors of Chaos

The northmen have solid stats, a wide variety of units, marks to cause all sorts of headaches and a pretty decent arsenal with the Lore of Nurgle.  Flying creatures aplenty and Monstrous Cavalry that makes any enemy general cry.  Let's breakdown the army:

Advantages:

Heavily armoured

With the majority of the Warriors army sporting a 3-4+ save as a minimum they can certainly be a tough nut to crack.  Infantry with a 3+ save is a common sight and cavalry/monstrous cavalry will of course be running a 1+ save.  The obvious counter to this is high strength attacks such as but not limited to:

-   Tooled up characters
-   Ironguts
-   Leadbelchers
-   Ironblasters
-   Magical Augmentation (Bullgorger, Lore of Beasts)
-   Amber Spear

Speed

With a lot of fast options available the army can be built as a very quick army.  With units of flyers available and steeds/mounts capable of marching 20” it can be hard to deal with when so many units roll up in your face style.  These units can be tackled with the usual shooting and magical attacks and are quite vulnerable to these as they don’t tend to have the heavily armoured backup of the rest of the army.  The speed issue can also be handled to a degree (ensuring they’re not flyers) with optimal Sabretusk placement.

Countered with:

-   Shooting
-   Sabretusks
-   Magic

Solid characteristics

Sure they pay for it but across the board the entire army has solid stats.  Most Initiative based spells don’t pose a problem to the army (except some notables) and there good WS/S/T will see them match if not better most foes in a straight up fight.  The majority of the enemy armies combat units/blocks will be hitting at Strength 5 wounding our poor Ogres on a 3+.  Magic is the sure fire way to make this more difficult.

Counter with:

-   Magic (Toothcracker, Wildform, Iceshard Blizzard)
-   Stack the Odds (2/3 vs 1 etc)

Marks

Mark of Nurgle makes the unit -1 to hit in combat, very nasty and can turn a sure-fire victory into a rubber lance type of situation.  Khorne adds more attacks and immune to psy and I guess the other notable being the Mark of Tzeentch to give a ward save which when combined with a block of Warriors gives them a hearty 5+ parry making them difficult to shift.

Variety

The list has quite a number of units and combinations to choose from.  They can match our chaff with their own Chaos Hounds, they can easily go toe to toe with our core units and characters with chariots backing them up and of course they can bring their own warmachines to destroy us from afar.

Cons

Expensive

As a whole you typically won’t see a ‘large’ Warrior army, because of their elite nature and high points cost the army will be a very specialised fighting force.  This can be used to our advantage and picked apart piecemeal all whilst dictating the flow of battle.  This is certainly a key to victory, if you can separate each unit and prevent them from having mutual support victory is guaranteed.

Typical Setups

Some infamous setups you'll see on the battlefield include but not limited to the following:

Nurgle Daemon Prince

I’ve listed this guy first as it’s quite possible the worst unit we can face.  A level 4 wizard sporting either Lore of Nurgle/Death (eeep!) who can happily fly around with a re-rollable armour save and ward, perhaps hitting on a 2+, maybe even have a 2+ ward against flaming depending on the build and will probably deflect the first cannonball you throw at him due to a charmed shield.  There is one thing worse than a purple sun heading for your lines, and that’s when the assailant is directly on your flank completely perpendicular to your battle line.  Ouchies!

However, not all is lost my round friends.  The usual principles apply for taking on an enemy of this magnitude, firstly get rid of the charmed shield to ensure ye olde Ironblaster has got a chance to do some damage.  Take some pot shots at it first with magic missiles/leadbelchers/shooting of choice to negate the Charmed Shield and then apply the big guns.

Having a flying enemy is always going to be difficult to catch and a canny general won’t send him in alone unless the situation calls for desperate measures.  Built around the Lore of Death the Daemon Prince (especially against us) can inflict much more damage out of combat then inside of it so don’t expect it to charge your blocks unless it’s backed up with hearty reinforcements.

Summary:

-   Magic missiles/shooting to negate Charmed Shield
-   Ironblaster/Amber Spear
-   S6 attacks

Un-killable character

This is a very tricky build and mildly annoying to face.  Exalted Champion, BSB, mounted on a Daemonic Mount with barding taking him to Toughness 5, Talisman of Preservation for a 4+ ward, Mark of Tzeentch taking it to a 3+ ward save and Third Eye of Tzeentch to practically give the model a 2+ ward save.  Add in the fact the character is sporting a 1+ armour save and you’ve still got points to add in a 2+ save against flaming in case Lore of Metal is facing them and it becomes a case of avoiding the character or throwing absolutely everything you can at him to try and dispose of.  I find with most builds like this often victory can be secured one of two ways, totally ignoring them (the game can be won without the need to engage/kill said character) or winning the fight via combat resolution and breaking them.

Summary:

-   Choose to ignore or engage early
-   Win via Combat Resolution

Skullcrushers

I haven’t seen many lists that don’t have the obligatory Skullcrusher build.  That is a unit of 3 strong with a musician and Ensorcelled Weapons.  The basic scoop is a fast frenzied unit pumping out 9 x S5 attacks (hitting on 3’s) followed by the Juggernauts 9 x S6 attacks (hitting on 3’s again).  Here’s the real kicker, just like our Ogres however they need to take 3 wounds before any loss of attacks is noticed, with a 1+ armour save it’s not the easiest thing to do in combat so simply put don’t let them get there.  Use of Sabretusks is essential here to dictate these frenzied warriors into an optimal position to open up with an Ironblaster/Amber spear.  This has been a successful method I’ve employed in a few games but take note of any units that will prevent/block an overrun into a terrible position for the Skullcrushers.  A canny general will position Chaos Hounds/Character on Disc to prevent the Skullcrushers from running 14” off on their own separated from the rest of the army.  The following diagrams are very basic and of course extremely subjective however you get the point:



Basic positioning



Sabretusk moves into position



Skullcrushers charge exposing flank



Ironblaster goes to work

Summary:

-   Sabretusk positioning
-   Ironblaster/Amber Spear/Bonecrusher
-   Flank charges only

Warrior Block of Nurgle

A staple unit in nearly every warriors army I’ve come across and for good reason.  A ranked unit with high offensive capability armed with Halberds (S5) and being -1 to hit all day.  We’ll be hitting these guys on a 5+ so as you can imagine it’s going to be a grind fest.  Secondly it will normally house some key characters which can increase the units damage output effectively.  Running 6 wide the unit will be spitting out around 19 attacks.  Keep an eye out for the Lore of Nurgle giving these guys a boost turning them into Toughness 7 warriors or giving them regeneration (5+).  Don’t engage the unit unless they’re stranded on their own as you can bet if you face them full strength and allow a chariot/chimera/unit of choice to help them out your Ogres are dust.  These guys can not only take a fair amount of punishment, it’s the amount they dish out before hand that is the concern to the Ogre Kingdoms.

In previous battles against this block I’ve focused on removing the support elements first (Chimera/Chrariots/Skullcrushers) before using everything in my arsenal to inflict ranged casualties on the unit (Leadbelchers/Ironblasters/Magic missiles) before finally committing to combat on my terms.  Keep in mind with a base movement of 4” they aren’t the fastest moving threat the Warriors army will produce so time is on your side.

Summary:

-   Mutual Charges only
-   Ranged attacks

Chimera

A flying terror causer capable of some rampant destruction coupled with a breath weapon and regeneration (4+).  Ouch.  A similar train of thought can be seen with the Chimera as our Ironblasters, the competitive lists tend to run two of these tooled up and for good reason.  However looking beyond the offensive capability there are some chinks in their thick hides.  Firstly their Initiative value is 2 making them vulnerable to Purple Suns and of course meaning we’re either striking first or at the same time.  Also it’s worth mentioning they only have 4 wounds and an extremely low leadership meaning they’ll generally hang around with the army general to feed of the higher leadership until they need to commit or they commit together in an orgy of death and destruction.  Looking past all of that, the simple rules apply to dealing with this foe.  Flaming attacks to counter the regen and then go to town with shooting attacks.  Even if you can effectively put 2-3 wounds on it you’ll make the enemy general second guess himself in terms of putting him into a combat that he’d normally win.

These are generally priority targets as if they managed to get into your back lines or flanks you practically can’t get rid of them without turning your forces and exposing your own flanks to the enemy.  The Sabretusks don’t really get much play here purely because the beast can fly completely over them into position so be mindful of this.

Summary:

-   Firebellies!
-   Ironblaster
-   Leadbelchers
-   Poison Maneaters w/Flaming Banner
-   High Strength attacks

Nurgle Sorcerer Lord

Another classical Lord choice often sported accompanying the Nurgle Bunker Block.  Several different builds however a popular one comprises of giving a ward save and the Glittering Scales providing a 6+ to hit for most enemies.  Waste your attacks trying to take him out and the rest of the unit goes to work racking up the combat resolution.  A familiar can be added to give the sorcerer 5 spells to play with and the Lore of Nurgle is capable of augmenting their units to make them rock solid or reducing the Toughness of our poor Ogres.

Magic Lores

Warriors have access to the following lores:

-   Lore of Nurgle
-   Lore of Slaanesh
-   Lore of Tzeentch
-   Lore of Metal
-   Lore of Death
-   Lore of Shadow
-   Lore of Fire

Without going too much into detail I wish to post a quick review of the Lore of Nurgle as I think it is a premiere Lore if used in conjunction with several units and army builds.

Lore attribute – When a spell is successfully cast on the roll of a 6 the wizard increases its Wounds and Toughness by 1 for the rest of the game.

Handy on that Flying Daemon Prince right?  If you’re getting off 2 spells per phase then you can probably expect to get this on average of twice per game but stranger things can happen.

Stream of Corruption – Direct Damage, flamer template toughness based check attack
Miasma of Pestilence – Augment spell,  reducing enemy WS/I in base contact with unit
Blades of Putrefaction – Augment spell, Poison attacks
Curse of the Leper -  Augment/Hex, adds/minuses D3 toughness.
Rancid Visitations – Magic Missile, D6 S5 hits and can continue after failed T check.
Fleshy Abundance – Augment, regeneration (5+)
Plague Wind – Vortex, T tests failed = 1 wound

So as you can see Curse of the Leper for us is the key spell to stop.  Everything revolves around this spell.  In the opening frames of the game the enemy will attempt a boosted Curse of the Leper before unleashing a Rancid Visitations/Plague Wind to inflict some casualties.  Stream of Corruption is hardly seen but I could see it working with the flying Daemon Prince sneaking up to a side of an infantry block and having a friendly vomit on them.

Key Units

The following is a quick summary of what is considered competitive and a very quick counter to each unit.

Daemon Prince – (as above)
Sorcered Lord – (as above)
Throgg – Trolls for Core, flaming attacks to counter
Chaos Chariots – Good armour save and great support for warrior blocks.  Ironblaster/Amber Spear/Bonecrusher before combat, Ironguts in combat.  High strength impact hits can kill it remember.
Warhounds – Chaff for the enemy and used the same as Sabretusks.  Can Vanguard.  Shoot/spell away and panic.
Warrior Blocks – In different flavours, nearly always with halberd/shield combo.  Engage with magic/shooting before stomping in combat.  Be prepared to take casualties.  Ironguts/Bulls with character support, MFC are great at doing some soaking with augments.
Marauder Horsemen – Usual fast cav however can dish out some S5 attacks with malice.  Shooting/magic.
Chimera – Covered above.
Chosen – expensive however a roll of the chart can make them specialised, treat the same as Warrior blocks.
Gorebeast Chariot – The ultimate infantry support tool, treat carefully as they have higher Toughness but much slower.  Usual chariot counters.
Trolls – Regenerating Monstrous Infantry – fire magic, flaming attacks.
Hellcannon – Chaos Artillery that can chop in combat – beware.  Ironblaster, Irongut block.
Skullcrushers – covered above

Sub optimal choices:

Chaos Lord – Expensive and a tooled up lord can practically pay for another unit.  Brings Leadership 9 however slap a Standard of Discipline on the bunker and that solves that problem.
Chaos Marauders – Got a price hike from last edition, little armour and drop like flies.
Forsaken – Too expensive for what they do and no command options.
Chaos Knights – single wound models when you could take Skullcrushers?
Warshrine – Depending on the list build the problem comes from having power dice to use it on the army.
Dragon Ogres – I like them but they’re expensive and little armour and low initiative
Chaos Ogres – Another one I actually like, depending on build but in general probably won’t see.
Hellstriders – Too fragile however extremely fast and with character support can be incredible.
Chaos Giant – We all know big things simple attract fire, no different.
Chaos Spawn – Seen if points to fill
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth – see Chaos Giant but a gorgeous model.
Vortex Beast – hideous
Slaughterbrute – see Chaos Giant

What to expect:

A basic build will comprise of something like this:

Daemon Prince/Sorcerer Lord
BSB
Chaos/Gorebeast Chariots
Chaos Hounds
Warrior Block
Chimera/s
Skullcrushers
Hellcannon

What to take:

I don't like to customise armies to fight others however below if a list of what I would feel is optimal/possible units to face off against a Warriors of Chaos list:

Slaughtermaster - magic defense/augmentation
BSB - Usual reasons
Firebelly - Counter Regeneration/Chaff Removal
Hunter - Harpoon Launcher flank shot?
Ironguts - Bunker characters and a hard hitting block
Gnoblars - Dangerous Terrain tests hurt their expensive models
Sabretusks - Read my tactica! 
Mournfang Cavalry - Fast and hard hitting unit capable of holding the line
Maneaters - Poison/flaming attacks can really help swing the battle
Leadbelchers - Every wound helps from a distance, chaff removal
Ironblasters - Armoured counter, auxiliary chariot.
Thundertusks - Because nobody likes striking last.

Seasoning to taste.

I noticed that Thundertusks did not make your list of how to deal with WoC.  Besides being a great model, I have found them able to turn the tide in a battle against Warriors of Chaos.

First off, this is one of the armies where Ogres are best served to sit back and let them come to us and then charge when able.  Because this means no marching, the fire support offered by the Thundertusk is actually a viable aid.  Most importantly, though, is the always strikes last.  This is one of the few armies that our low initiative REALLY hurts, and ASL is huge in evening the odds.  And, because of the nature and build of their armies, you rarely see them able to effectively neutralize it until after the balance of the game is in your favor.  For example, I recently had a firebelly (no great weapon, just HW and FireBreath) kill a [previously wounded] demon prince in a challenge because of ASL.  His previous wounds were the result of the next paragraph's topic.

The Hellheart.  It is by no means a guarantee, but against armies such as this (and Chaos Demons) that come to you with their powerful casters, it is very reasonable to assume that it will at least shut down a magic phase, if not cause wounds on those expensive powerhouses.  I would never say that a magic item is a "must", or that it is the answer to an opponent army.  Its not, no item (or unit choice) is a substitute for good tactics.  But, I love it, its just too much fun [for me, not my opponents] to leave at home.  Yes, it has done nothing in many games except waste 50 points and prevent me from taking a dispel scroll or forbidden rod, but those are usually against armies such as High Elves/Empire where my opponent isn't doing me the favor of TRYING to get close with his casters.

In your sabretusk example, When the skull crushers charge, are you fleeing with them? and then they fail their charge exposing their flank? Because if you are holding, and the sabretusk gets killed, can't he reform?

no, skullcrushers are frenzied, so he MUST overrun 

+1 on the thundertusk.  WoC has only a single warmachine choice, so it's chances of survival are greatly increased.  It also makes buffed Bulls the way to go; S5/6 bulls hitting a chaos block before it strikes will take the starch out of just about any unit.

Nim beat me to it on both points, T-tusk is worth it in these matches I believe

To the exposed flank tactic... remember that if you charge a unit (say crushers) with a unit that he cannot kill completely but you know will break he must also pursue. If you can flank charge a 3-pack of ogres or 3-pack SP in the flank of the crushers you'll likely break and he must turn 90 degree and pursue. It is not often it works but when it does you've saved your ass another round of not being charged by the crushers or better yet they overrun into another small unit from which they again must overrun from in their combat phase leaving their flank/rear exposed : )

Will there been any emphasis on how to tool up a tyrant/SM to deal with eg. daemon princes?

Great read!

Oh, you tool them up just as wound normally: dependant on available points and tactics.  For the record, here's a list of probabilities vs certain load-outs so you can choose.
VS a Daemon Prince: WS9/S6/A5

fencer's/tricksters: 85 points
hit on 4+, reroll to wound
1.1 wounds dealt
tricksters/ToP: 95 points
hit on 3+, reroll to wound, 4+ ward
.7 wounds dealt
fencer's/glittering: 60 points
hit on 5+
1.1 wounds dealt
fencer's/glittering/endurance: 90 points
hit on 5+, 5+ ward
.7 wounds
glittering/ToP: 70 points
hit on 4+, 4+ ward
.8 wounds dealt

You may want to also go over Festus - he's often a key component of Nurgle Core Warrior lists, giving his block a 5+ regen. He also always has Curse of the Leper, and your flaming unit is most likely being engaged by a Nurgle Prince with Dragonbane Gem.


Throgg also turns up a lot more than most people think - he's really only not as common due to lack of cheap Chaos Troll models.


Finally, though it's VERY unlikely, some people do run Archaon and Kholek - the former of which Spirit Leeches like a baws, and the latter being able to murder most things in a challenge comfortably and also a pain for Sabretusks to accomplish anything (lightning bolt!)


Still, cracking write-up! This is most of the nightmare that you're likely to see from Warriors, always good to know.

To the exposed flank tactic... remember that if you charge a unit (say crushers) with a unit that he cannot kill completely but you know will break he must also pursue. If you can flank charge a 3-pack of ogres or 3-pack SP in the flank of the crushers you'll likely break and he must turn 90 degree and pursue. It is not often it works but when it does you've saved your ass another round of not being charged by the crushers or better yet they overrun into another small unit from which they again must overrun from in their combat phase leaving their flank/rear exposed : )

Will there been any emphasis on how to tool up a tyrant/SM to deal with eg. daemon princes?

Great read!

That's a great snippet of info Joakim, I'll be adding that to the overall write up which I'll review during the month. 

Thanks for all of the comments guys but as I stressed I want this to be an effort for the entire Stronghold so keep the ideas coming and I'll start adding the points to the opening post.

I think you actually are undervaluing the hellstriders.

Hellstriders of Slaanesh have ruined more battle plans than I care to count.  For starters, they are fast.  With vanguard and a movement of 10, they can be anywhere on the map on the first turn.  If you have a flank open, they will be able to charge it turn two.  Second, they have a decent amount of strength, plus armor piercing due to the mark of slaanesh.  Finally, they start getting bonuses whenever they kill a unit.

The standard WoC tactic that I have seen is to charge and surround.  If you are playing a standard battle line game, you can set up in a corner and fight from there.  If you are playing any other game mode, you will not be able to defend both flanks, and you will have hellstriders in your side.  If you reposition a unit to take them out, such as a swift reform on a unit of leadbelchers, then you are opening yourself up to a side charge from a chimera or chariot.  If you ignore the hellstriders, then they are going to combo charge you in the flank with whatever meaty unit gets there first. 

So far, I haven't had much luck against this strategy.  The tactic that I was going to try next was to take a unit of 3 ogres with extra hand weapons.  My plan is to deploy against a corner, and set this unit of ogres on the exposed flank, but near the back of the deployment zone, rather than the front.  Hellstriders are fast, but they still aren't fast enough to get into the side of a unit that deployed so far back.  This threat should effectively neuter the hellstriders, since they want access to your exposed flank, due to their relative fragility.  3 ogres getting the charge should be more than sufficient to tie a 5 pack of hellstriders up for at least a turn or two, if not outright destroy them.

Sometimes you see a Sorc Lord riding with the Hellstriders too. Don't think they keep Vanguard, but it's often used to drop ASL and stupidity into your battle line using the Lore of Slaanesh...

In the absence of a daemon prince, I've also seen cheap Chaos Lords with Glittering Scales and Mark of Nurgle (sometimes even with Fencer's Blades and/or a ward save thrown in).  This means that EVERYTHING in our book is hitting this guy on 6s.  He's a ridiculous tarpit, but is still cheap enough to get a level 4, full-kit Sorcerer into your list.

It should also be underlined that against a hero, lord, or prince, our Core choices are hitting on 5s, or 6s if they're nurgle.

Remember guys, I haven't faced every possible combination of sorts so if I've written something off (Thundertusks/Hellstriders) it's purely from a lack of experience point of view.

I'll be sure to update these points in the opening post however. 

I recently faced off against Warriors of Chaos - battle report here.

Have a 1500 point game upcoming for tomorrow.

Get your comments in people, this will be moved to the appropriate forum next month in order to make way for another article.

i'll add my 2p

Don't forget combat res.

WoC armies tend to be very reliant on small units or models to do mass damage. CR doesn't work on the DP obviously but the unkillable BSB can be taken down with combat res. Against WoC, a horde of Ogres wont do enough against all the 1+ but the combat res of being 5 deep can be very nice!