Gut magic

Hey, this is from my gnoblog, no one's seems to want to comment there so feel free to comment there or here

http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=9010.180

Gut magic

First of all, how many butchers? I have found one butcher at what ever points level to be ineffective, as a defensive model he isn’t efficient due to high points cost and offensively he cannot really muster enough PD to have an effective phase. If you must take one butcher the Bangstick is a must and a DS the next obvious choice. 2 Butchers I have found works really well at low points and with the Bangstick moderately well at 2K. They provide sufficient defense and offense at a reasonable price. However against armies with 10 magic levels they aren’t going to do much either way. 3 butchers naturally have it better again but will still struggle against 10 level armies. Against average armies they can work very effectively.

Going cold turkey is not a bad move due to the number of model’s you can have around, and with 2 Theifstone you can avoid anything really dangerous most of the time. It is better then a defensive butcher.

The very best way to get good effect out of your butchers is to kill the apposing mage’s. I go like crazy from turn one to do this. If you can knock off a level 4 or even a level 2 early in the game he will suffer big time. His defense is reduced, his offense reduced and as such his ability to function effectively. How to do this is for another article however.

Offense and defense are linked so importantly for ogres. Many generals recommend kiting your mages with all offence items or all defense. They say that splitting the two hampers each other and you end up with neither working well. Due to the fact that many of our spells are RiP and we can have a lot of the at any one time, this is not true for us. It is a snowball effect, if your offense works them your defense will have less to contend with. This is why it is important to get control of the magic phase early, to try and knock off mages, and characters with bound spells and similar.

This is also why I like power stones so much. This is a vast over simplification but for example, if you have the first turn, move up and threaten 3 enemy units with 3 of your own. You manage to get one buff through and he has no DD left. Next turn you charge in and he uses 2-3 PD to get rid of it. Now you’re in trouble, the unit no longer has the ability to win or the chances are even. Not a good situation and one that I’m sure we have all been in. But what happens if you get 2 off? With a power stone? You charge in with your 2 units and now he has a choice, seriously hamper his magic or take his chances. If he does chuck dice at them there’s a reasonable chance he will fail one, if he only stops one presumably the more important one your goal has been achieved. Your other unit may lose but you know this you are prepared for it, you have counter charges ready and now he’s on the back foot. (Note that the priority charges for those 3 units is units with mages hiding in them  ) Now the snowball begins. Next turn he’s down defensively and you get 2 through. Etc, etc, etc.

On a slight side not this is also why Theifstone are so good. They have 2 uses, stopping your opponent targeting a specific unit (3 stones) or helping out defensively (1-2). The second use is one that is worth the points every time. Make sure that there in a unit that your opponent wants to target. This is also a measure of how many, if its an important unit then he’s will be willing to have a go a MR 2, if not just 1 will do. You want him to target it so don’t over do it.

Now due to this snowball affect the loss of even 1 butcher is a serious problem, particularly early in the game. Tooling them up with protective items has both disadvantages and advantages. They may take fewer wounds but you can’t spend the points on other helpful stuff. The PD you free up are often being dispelled and therefore effectively used anyway. A better tactic is to keep them out of harms way, something that is only gained with experience.

On that note there is the issue of items that don’t directly effect your magic phase. The Seigebreaker, Scullmantle and fistful are the only one’s I would consider but are appearing less. The Seigebreaker while a great tactical asset to the army doesn’t help out with magic and can put the butcher in danger and/or ineffective places. The scull mantle does help slightly in that it makes Braingobbla more effective, it also cheap so I am keeping it at the moment. Fol has long disappeared.  

Now how to get the spells through? The problem with this is that even a cursory glance at the spells will tell your opponent what he needs to dispel. But fear not there are ways thought it. First of all however a rundown on the spells

Bloodgruel
Heals you butchers, albeit with a 6% chance of wounding them. As such you want to use early. Naturally your opponent being canny and loaded with DD will figure to let everything else through and then dispel this. Don’t complain he just let you spells through. You can heal your butcher back up once his mages are dead  . If you are reduced to 1 wound you must consider if it is worth the risk of killing him to regain the wound. You must also consider the consequences of casting another spell and killing him. This is why my wounded butcher stick to Braingobbla first, Bullgorger next and if really necessary Bonecruncher last

Braingobbla
Remember that a unit can only take one panic test per phase so against RnF units it should come after Bonecruncher. Against single models it’s not a bad one to do early. Choose carefully who you target with this spell, a high LD model might be worth the chance if you don’t have anything you need through. If however you have spells yo want off casting this on multiple low LD units is a sure way to draw dice

Bonecruncher
For low toughness, high AS models naturally. Also very good for knocking off a single rank here and there. One thing to consider with this is if cast it on a RnF unit your opponent lets it through, you kill say two models, you’re nearly at panic test level. Cast it again, he’s not going to dispel it and you have  nearly to ranks gone and a panic test to boot.

Bullgorger
This spell make bulls as good as IGs against some opponents and not far behind for others. The biggest issue with it is the S test which is why I like to put a butcher in a unit of bulls and cast it on himself. Naturally such a unit will be close to your general.
It also puts IGs into S7 territory, MEs with handguns into machines. It is more useful then people give it credit for

Toothcracker
The +1T of this spell is quite good at protecting you from magic missiles, and normal shooting. It also works well in combat and basically makes them quite tough. The stubborn is very handy making anvils out of units and protection for when things go wrong.

Trollguts
Remember that snowball effect? The MR is very handy, and the regen makes units quite safe from a wider variedly of sources. The automatic wound is a pain but does make the cookbook worth considering.

Bangstick
Might as well put this here, use similarly to Bonecruncher, first turn it should be last as a nasty surprise. In use later make sure you target units that will need it to be dispelled, it’s primarily for drawing dice, but that won’t happen if you use it on Chaos knights

Now which Buff? They’re all good, but Trollguts has the added bonus of the MR, and as such is good to get off early. Toothcracker is great for a bit of insurance and longer combats but for me the best policy is offence is the best defence. Bullgorger can turn you models into killing machine’s and when striking first you should be aiming to kill everything in base contact.

Backtracking a bit how to get the important spell off. The important spell changes each phase, early its often Trollguts so you don’t get shot to pieces, later Toothcracker and Bullgorger are more effective. The Bonecruncher is anytime, as long as it’s before combat. Braingobbla due to the dice reliant nature (similar to terror) is never important but always useful.  

General rules. Use Bloodgruel early, it makes sense and will draw dice. Use Braingobbla on low LD units to draw dice, use the Bangstick and Bonecruncher on small fragile units to draw dice. Use Braingobbla on high LD units to use last dice,

Tactic No 1. Forcing it through. An effective way to get a buff off is to target the same unit 3-4 times. Persistence is the key. Try Toothcracker on a unit heading for a nasty unit of his he doesn’t want stopped. He dispels it, now try again using two dice, he dispels it. Now cast troll guts on it or another unit, he dispels it. Now try Trollguts again. You use 6 dice. And if you roll only average he will need 2 for the single dice and 3 for the double dice. That’s 10. And he might fail anyway, or you might roll 10-11 for one. If he only uses the same amount of dice them odds are it will get through. At this point you have 2 left  and can have a go at Bullgorger. If he uses DSs so be it, there are only so many, he’s playing a smart game because his mages are going to be dead from turn 2-3 onwards. Note at some point in there the Bangstick should be used on a tasty target to draw a dice. At tis point consider the Powerstone, will another buff get the snowball rolling

Tactic No 2. What’s next. Trying a buff first early is a going to make your opponent wonder. He might leave it waiting for something worse. Regardless, go through the motions and draw all his dice. Now at the end of your phase cast it again. At this point consider the Powerstone, will another buff get the snowball rolling. This sort of thing is augmented by the importance that you placed on this spell earlier. If you spent all your dice trying to draw it so it could get through, but then next turn cast it first do you really care that much.

Tactic No 3. Faking it. Another way to get it through is to use the buff in the manner you would to draw dice. Spam the buffs across the board, now the may not end up on important units but then you opponents not going to use power dice to get rid of it is he. Then you can have another go next round and all of a sudden you have to many buffs to deal with.

Tactic No 4. Double dice. Chucking two dice at the essential spell at the end of your phase is actually fairly solid. You roll well and he doesn’t have much chance.

It’s basically about misdirection and jumping on any small mistake your opponent makes. Tooth Gnoblars help in this and can shove casting values beyond what your opponent can deal with.

The magic phase has become hard for ogre’s but hopefully this will help some people get a foot in the door and once you do this its down hill from there

Comments welcome

Scroth

No one? Even to tell me I'm crazy and I should stick my head in an oven door

Well I don't use power stones, and when I used 3 butcher lists I generally rolled 1 dice at each spell until successfully cast.

So if you roll a 5 or 6 (1 dice) the opponent has to decide whether to risk 1 or use 2 dice to dispel with.

I tend to use 2 dice if I feel the spell is important enough, but not always.

Thiefstones combined with a single Butcher & Rune Maw Banner are my current thoughts on Ogre Magic for my army at 2.5k.

I have tried Butcher less lists and they don't seem to work for my playing style.

The thief stones come in very handy vs WoC spells which are so nasty they are Match winners if they get off. Thiefstonesa re also relatively cheap for 2.