Earth Eathers Tribe

I have been intending to branch out from my orcish hoard and wander into the Mountains of Mourn for quite some time now, but needed a way of imposing a timeline and indeed some deadlines to motivate me to create the army at a faster rate than the last one (200 greenskin models in 2 years). A Gnoblog shall be the solution I say, therefore this shall hopefully become they great story of the Earth Eaters tribe, a tribe of ogres which I will (hopefully) raise over the next couple of years.

It might be pertinent too add something more of a personal note here, I am 16, and I’ve been playing Warhammer for two years, so whole all criticism from any grizzled veterans (or insightful young bloods like my self ) is more than welcomed, please don’t try to simply tell me my lists or tactics won’t work, tell me why or try to find solutions for the problems through tactics or army selection, not remove entire sections of my lists them and try to get me to copy the tactics you beat out through many a hard fought game. I want to learn the hard way too.

Right, down to business.

My First Ogre’s List

Bruiser with a great weapon, heavy armor and a luck gnobblar at 145 points

2 units of 3 Bulls with a bellower at 105 points each

3 Ironguts with a standard bearer at 164 points

2 units of 2 Leadbealchers with a bellower at 120 points each

1 Scraplauncher at 165 points

1 Gorger at 75 points

Total Points: 999

Wounds: 52
Models: 16
Magic: zip

I think this list really needs some Gnobbos, not sure how I’m going to get them let, the heavy armor and luck Gnoblars on the bruiser are just to use up some remaining points

Possible changes:

All Bellowers for small unit of Gnoblars, trappers or cheap magic item (fistful of laurels, theifstone)
Gorger for a combination of Gnobbos, Standards for bulls, command for Ironguts, warbanner for Ironguts, or upgrade bulls to Ironguts.
Scraplauncher for any of the above, another unit of Bulls, Ironguts or Leadbealchers or make main units 4 models instead of 3
Ironguts for Bulls plus Gnobbos or standards
Gorgers and Scraplauncher for Maneaters or any combination of the above
1 unit of Leadbealchers for Bulls.
2 units of Leadbealchers for just about anything

And the tactics to go with it

Option 1

The bruiser would go with a unit of bulls, the Scraplauncher would combine with the other unit and the Ironguts would go it alone. This creates 3 strong cohorts to the army that would take down enemy units. Leadbealchers would protect flanks or alternately deploy the army against a table edge and use one unit to protect the open flank and the other to flank charge enemy units. Gorger kills shooty stuff and/or table corner squatters, could also appear on flanks and stop marches, harass units and take out support units. This is the default tactic for the list, good against dwarfs

Option 2

The bruiser would deploy with the unit of iron guts, this unit would combine with the Scraplauncher to deploy behind the units of bull screens. Bulls move up really close to enemy units, flee, get caught allowing a counter charge. Or they stay just in range of charges with iron guts out of range. Flee charge through the iron guts who counter charge. Leadbealchers and gorger as above. This tactic would be for brettonia, other ogres, basically anything that moves fast

Option 3

Deployment left to right:

Table edge—Bulls—Leadies—Leadies—Ironguts—Bulls with Bruiser—Scraplauncher

If Leadbleachers are charged, flee (use shots first if possible), if not flank charge units that charge Ironguts and bulls. Scraplauncher has to try and deal with flankers as does bruiser, solo charges!!!!!! Gorgers as above, but in particular appear on open flank (the right side in this case) and help Scraplauncher and Bruiser stop enemy flanking units. This tactic is probably only going to work against newbie’s but it’s a thought.

Please all comments welcome

Soon fluff and some idears for conversions

I would go with the option of taking out some Bellowers and putting in a unit of Gnoblars.  When I think about it Gnoblars are why I don't upgrade a lot of my things because they are just so damn useful.  Ran down a Bret Lord the other day.

In my head your lists is going to succeed or fail based on your Lead Belchers.  If you choose your targets properly and then get a little bit of luck I think your hammer units will do well.  Depending on how your points shape up I'd recommend getting a champion for either a unit of Gnoblars or a unit of Ogres that will be near your Bruiser.  Challenges can be annoying for Ogre characters.

Let me know if you want to know what I mean about choosing LeadBelcher targets properly or if you just want to learn the hard way?

Welcome to the Stronghold!

Although I would spare some points for a unit of gnoblars in the list, it seems solid enough and I'm not sure what you could drop to afford the gnobs. About your tactics, they seem alright, but you know how the saying goes: "a battleplan never survives contact with the enemy"


BigD

@ Oniguma Hard way definitely, I am however not so sure what you mean by challenges being hard for ogres (especially with the tenderizer) this seems like a great place considering that it would spread the wounds and allow more ogres too stay alive for longer. This seems the only good reason to pay 20 points for an extra attack where champions are concerned too

@ BigD couldn’t agree more, I really couldn’t

Some quick comments on the units I haven’t used and why

Other Characters, pretty simple there too expensive at 1000 points, though I am going to have to try a butcher

Yhetties, again these guys are expensive and to be honest I don’t really mind if I don’t catch broken units, either they rally and I charge them again or they don’t and flee off the board

Slave giant, I’ve used a real giant a fair bit playing Greenskins so I have at least some right too comment here (not that that’s stopping me any where else). He’s too random, in combat he quite often losses and without stubborn this is a bad thing, plus he’s really easy to shoot to death and the points save is just not worth it. Pain having to take him with giant breaker big name. Awesome modeling opportunity though.

Dogs of war, Cheating!!!!!

More stuff soon Scroth

Dogs of war, Cheating!!!!!

How is it? The only people who tend to say this, in my experience, are either 1) those who don't know how to use them effectively, so mess up with them all the time, or 2) those who have faced them, and got smashed from pillar to post!

Yhetees are incredible at picking off skirmishers, and the likes. Especially with their ability to ignore difficult terrain!

SG's are a bit of a risk. But, in a lot of cases, are worth the points sink! Depends how good a player you are!

JJ

I would remove the leadbelchers, hate the things. Since they need to roll to hit, have a horrible misfire (that could with not to much trouble kill on leadie) and can only fire every other turn.
I would exchange them for either a Butcher and a bunch of Gnoblars, or a pack of Yhetees and a bunch of Gnoblars.

Other than that, I like it! Especially the Scraplauncher! Awesome machine!

I would remove the leadbelchers, hate the things. Since they need to roll to hit, have a horrible misfire (that could with not to much trouble kill on leadie) and can only fire every other turn.

I'll have to comment on this. I love my leadies, and now take them instead of bulls (okay, yes I have to have the minimum unit of 1 bulls) for my support units. But like all our special choices, and most of our rare choices, this one is just down to personal taste.

Heh, if you don't know what I meant about challenges then that is another thing to learn the hard way.

@ Just-Josh I would consider dogs of war cheating because most people that use them just for filling gaps in a list (eg fast cavalry in a dwarf army). The whole point of these gaps is to create downsides and problems that we as games have too solve through tactics and planning. A list without downsides pretty boring to play and play against and no I haven’t got “smashed from pillar to post”

As for the Yhettees, I agree with your comments but just don’t see how they would fit into my list on the whole.

What role do you give your slave giant? In a greenskin army he is mainly a physiological aid as he really doesn’t hit that hard.

@ Flogger I relies that the Leadies misfire is deadly (too deadly in my opinion) but in my list they perform a vital role that I can’t just leave empty. I’ve been toying with I couple of other lists that contain a butcher and Yhetties, I will post these some time

Right, down to the business of the fluff, my first ever too.

With the coming of the great maw the Scullrippas an ancient tribe, were decimated almost to the ogre. Scroth Scullrippa the tribes great and powerful leader was robbed of his sight, his hearing and his already slipping grip on sanity. Confused and vengeful Scroth convinced himself that he had been sent a task to destroy the world. He renamed the tribe the Earth Eaters, and gave orders to mach west. The destruction begins…   

Hope you liked that little snippet will continue the story at a later date

Til next time, Scroth

I would consider dogs of war cheating because most people that use them just for filling gaps in a list (eg fast cavalry in a dwarf army). The whole point of these gaps is to create downsides and problems that we as games have too solve through tactics and planning. A list without downsides pretty boring to play and play against and no I haven’t got “smashed from pillar to post”

Okay, I see you point It is a fair one, but not one I necessarily agree with... Each to their own.

Yhetees; fair enough. But if there is some way of fitting them into the list, you should really consider doing so

Slave giant; It doesn't have any specific role, but if an opportune moment arises, it fulfills the obligation to make up for it's point sink. I often use it: in flank charges; destroying units of low toughness, high ranks models; and the obvious psyciological advantage 

JJ

In my mind Dogs of War and Special Characters aren't cheating but I would prefer if my opponents didn't use them.  There is no balanced or unbalanced reason, I mean there is because they couldn't play test every DoW combo as well as the list and I don't think that any Special Character is balanced.  For me I just want to see people play with their army, learning how to use their list without the crutch of a Special Character and without the (ussually) out of place addition of a DoW unit.  I find that a DoW unit in a nicely painted army ruins the look for me.

As soon as I put some money together I am going to buy a battalion box and some other bits and pieces, until then you will have to live with a list of some conversions I’m thinking about doing. Not all of them obviously

General stuff for all ogres but especially Bulls and Ironguts

Belts crossing over shouders,
Gnobblar with paint for warpaint
Tatto will be EE or Earth surrounded by great Maw symbol
Haleberds, sheilds flails
Extra teeth, metal rings and bones shoved through skin
Extra amour plates
Extra weapon hanging on belt
Pierced weapons
Scars, burns acid mark and birth marks
Dead animals over shoulder/ on belt 
Peg legs, Scrag type weapon arms
Chains wrapped around arms or as weapons
Charms around neck, wrist or pierced through ears
Increase height or size
Drinking horns and beer barrels
Extra hair or no hair
Defined shapes sticking out of gut
Eye patch
War paint, tattoos
Different weapons, simple log body parts 
Bits from other armies, scraps of uniform, standards, heads
Rocks with cave painting on them
Torches and campfires
3D symbols of the great maw
Models covered in blood and gore
Ogres participating bleaching contests, Gnoblar tossing, bellowing contests
Missing body parts from losing contests, noses, fingers, ears etc
No gut plate
Enemy’s skewed on weapons
Bandages
Trophies of enemy and animals etc
Furs
Iron fist and additional hand weapon
Gold teeth, rock teeth
Stomping on Gnobbos or animals

Basing ideas

Flora and fauna on bases, squished or running away
Bloody finished meals on bases
Bases covered in snow, covered in blood
Bases depict land ravaged by the great maw
Bases depicting land before the great maw
Gnobbos stealing, spying carrying stuff on bases or shoulders

For Gnobbos

Weapon attached to noses
Bandages, scars, missing body parts
In between legs of ogres
Being earmarked
Wearing clothes of ogres victims
Attached to logs to scratch those hard to reach places
Extra droopy noses

Things for Tyrant and Bruiser

Pulling arms of other ogres or enemy’s
Trophies of challenges
Cherished weapons
Luck Gnobblar being hit by crossbow bolt, cannon ball etc
Standard attached to back
Carrying maw tooth (BSB)
Name Gnobbo with scroll
On rock or body, bellowing in victory hands up
Charging, or signaling for charge
Beckoning sort of pose
Resting on weapon
About to smash something into a pulp
Bracing to take a charge

Butcher and Slaughtermasters

Wallowing in Scrag’s pot
Ownership mark on gut from when it was a baby
Extra body parts, hooks, jars of goo, animals and concoctions
Cutting table, held by Gnoblar
Casting spells or sacrificing tooth Gnoblar
Extra sets of teeth
Sucking blood from limb

Hunter

Using Harpoon
Throwing spear
Sabretusks caught something, eating it

Bulls

Standing to attention
Marching
Charging
Bracing to receive charge

Ironguts

Same as bulls
Lots of beer as they are drinking cronies

Leadbelchers

Same as bulls
Use Gnobbos for ammo
Face guard thing (see page 32)
Lots of chains
Soot Gnobbos
Ready to shoot
Just shoot
Reloading

Yhetees

Without weapons
Climbing cliff face
Riding avalanche down on victims

Gorger

Same as bulls
Remove piercing
Bandages over eyes
Eating
Both hands up

Maneaters

Same as bulls
Models need some unity and more movement

Slavegiant

Killing master
Stepping over wall
Throttling something
Jumping up and down
Head butting some one
Picking up some one

Scraplauncher

Reloading
Charging
Shooting
Just Shot
Wheels or skids
Just destroyed itself
Rhinox going crazy
Weapons raining down on itself
Firing a Gnobbo

I will also make magic weapons and items, just by copying the descriptions

Thats it for me, possibly for a while. I will try and type up my first game into a battle report soon

Til then Scroth

Holy s**t!!!! That is one heck of a list!!! If you pull half of those of, you are a God!!!! I can't wait till these conversions start coming through

JJ

@ Just-josh. Cheers, just a quick clarification, the different poses like charging, shooting ect will be themes for each unit not separate ogres, hopefully I will do one unit of each.

Hmm … All hail Scroth, the almighty god

Another Possible List

3 Units of 3 bulls with a bellower at 115 points each

2 units of 3 Yhetties at 195 points each

8 trappers at 48 points

A gorger at 75 points

A bruiser with a great weapon and heavy amour at 142 points

Total points: 997

Wounds: 61
Models: 25
Magic: Zilch

Again the heavy amour on the bruiser is just to use up some final points

This list doesn’t really lend itself to being able to chop and change at will without changing the general tactics, however, you could drop the trappers for some upgrades on the bulls, bruiser or turn the bulls into Ironguts. Or normal Gnobbos.

This list would use a pincer maneuver trapping enemy units between a wall of bulls Yhetees on the flank and the trappers and gorger from behind. This last section would be quite unreliable with bickering, Bloodsent and ravenous. Also even if the trappers rear charge a unit and get the 2+ (or 5+ from the lose of ranks) of combat resolution they will probably lose this through the mass of wounds they are likely to take. I think I will drop the trappers.

Against faster armies the bulls and trappers would have to act as bait. Against a castle the Gnobbos would probably only be good for claiming table quarters.

Scroth

Well I've just been pricing the models so I can mail order them (I live in the middle of nowhere) and I can honestly say that I am defiantly going to be converting all of my characters, Yhetees and Maneaters, damm there expensive, (I prefer plastics anyway)
Just a warning people, I’m going to wait until the new inks come out so won’t be ordering until the there out in July. No pictures for a while yet.

I will write up that battle report soon

Scroth

Well, we will have to wait for those pics, rather egaerly However, I can't wait for that battle rep

JJ

That battle report I promised

Be warned I was slightly enebrated (how do you spell that) when I wrote it

My list is the first one I posted except I dropped the bellowers and some odds and ends for a unit of Gnoblars trappers. (I noticed that it’s not legal without the Gnoblars because of the Scraplauncher

My opponent was Brettonia (I think that’s how you spell it) his list was something like this

Paladin with warhorse (had some vows, magic and stuff)
Paladin with BSB and warhorse (had some items)
6 Errant knights with their banner
2 units of 6 Knights of the realm
5 Mounted Yeoman
Trebuchet
6 Questing knights

I’ve always hated the players in a game having anything to do with setting up the terrain so usually get a 3ird party to do it, However I’ve found this not to be to great either as they always seem to be boring predictable battle grounds with no real difference from one side to the other. So I let my little sister set up this board.

--------------R-------------------------HILL---HILL---HILL-----
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------E--------------------------------------------------------------
------V-----------------------------WOOD--------------------------
---I---------------ORCHUT-----------------------------------------
R-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------HILL HILL—

I ended up with the bottom edge and this is how deployment turned out

-----------------------------------------------------Trebuchet--------
----------Mntd Ymn-----Nghts Rlm------Errnt –Quest—Realm
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------Trappers------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------Lead—Lead—--Bulls—Bulls--
-----------------------------------------------------Iron guts—Scrap

So, Mounted Yeoman left hand side of hut, Knights of the Realm in the middle of the hut and wood, Errantry Knights on the right of the wood and the other unit of Knights of the Realm on the table edge with the Questing Knights in between them and the errantry Knights. The BSB joined the Right unit of Knights of the Realm and the General was in the other unit of Knights of the Realm

The first unit of Leadies in the middle of the hut and wood and the second unit to the right of the wood, trappers in wood. Bruiser in the right hand unit of bulls

I elected to go second and the battle started

Bretonnia Turn One

Everything moved just short of the middle of the board except the Mounted Yeoman who move full speed trying to get around the hut quickly. The Errantry Knights were forced to charge the trappers who fled leaving them stuck in the middle of the wood. Trebuchet missed by a mile

Ogres Turn 1
 
Trappers rallied, both units of bulls moved as far as possible, Ironguts and scrappy didn’t move, Left hand unit of Leadbelchers moved forward bringing them inside shooting range of  the left hand unit of Knights of the realm. Other unit of leadies moved forward keeping both the Questing Knights and Knights of the Realm in sight. Scraplauncher misfired allowing my opponent to shoot, it misfired and shot straight up scattering off the board. Left hand Unit of leadies killed one Knight of the Realm.

--------------------------------------------------Trebuchet -----------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------Errentry----------------------------
--------------------------Realm--------------Questing---Realm----
-- Mntd Ymn ----------------FleeingGnbbs----Bulls---Bulls-----
--------------------------Leadies—Leadies--------------------------
------------------------------------------------Ironguts-----Scrappy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bretonnia turn 2

Mounted Yeoman kept moving around hut, left unit of Knights of Realm charged Leadbelchers who fled. They weren’t caught, Questing Knights Charged bulls who fled and were run down, other unit of Knights of the Realm charged bulls with Bruiser who held. Errantry Knights moved almost out of the wood. Trebuchet missed. Bruiser challenged BSB who accepted. They caused one wound each, Knights did 2 wounds and bulls did 2. Ogres lost and held.

Ogres turn 2

Leadbelchers rallied. Other unit of Leadies flank charged Knights of the realm as did Trappers (except it was a rear charge) Ironguts charged Questing Knights who held. Scraplauncher moved into charging range of the Questing Knights. Scraplauncher missed. Gorger didn’t turn up. All 3 battles were draws or passed break tests.

--------------------------------------------------Trebuchet -----------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------Errentry----------------------------
--------------------------Gnobbos---------------------- ---Realm----
-- ------------- ---------- Realm - Leadie---- Questing---Bulls----
------------------------------------— ----------------------------------
-------MntdYmn------- Leadies -----------Ironguts-----Scrappy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bretonnia Turn 3

Mounted yeoman charged Leadies who stood and shoot killing one. Errantry Knights charged Gnoblars. Trebuchet missed. Bruiser killed BSB plus 2 wounds of overkill, the Knights of the realm broke, they weren’t caught. The Trappers failed break test and were trapped (Ha Ha Ha that’s horrible) and killed. Errantry Knights no longer in combat. Questing Knights drew there combat. Leadbelchers Drew (again). Mounted Yeoman Also drew.

Ogres Turn 3

Caught Knights of the realm on right flank, Scraplauncher charged Questing Knights.
Gorger turned up near Mounted Yeoman. Questing Knights broke and were run down by Scraplauncher, Ironguts perused 2 inches!! Leadbelchers lost and fled through Ironguts who were charged by pursuing Knights of the Realm. Leadbelchers lost against Mounted Yeoman, they held

--------------------------------------------------Trebuchet -----------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------Errantry------------ Scrappy ------ Bulls -
----------------------------------------------------------- --------------
-- ------------- ------------------------- Realm- Ironguts-------------
------------------------------------— --------------------- ------------
--------------MntdYmn Leadies ------------------------------------
---------------Gorger--------------------------------------------------

Bretonnia turn 4

Errantry Knights charged Leadbelchers who one of which died and the other fled of the board, Knights also left board. Trebuchet killed all of the bulls leaving bruiser by himself.
Ironguts lost and held

Ogre Turn 4

Bruiser charged Trebuchet, who fled, Bruiser was forced to purse off the table
Gorger killed last two Mounted Yeoman outright. Scrappy turned around to charge the Knights of the Realm

------------------------------------------------------------------------ -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------ Scrappy ------ ------- -
----------------------------------------------------------- --------------
-- ------------- ------------------------- Realm- Ironguts-------------
------------------------------------— --------------------- ------------
--------------  ----------------------------------------------------------
---------------Gorger--------------------------------------------------

The rest of the game

The Scraplauncher charged the Knights of the Realm, they die at some point in the two turns, Errantry Knights are charged by gorger, they grind to a halt
Bruiser Comes back.

Ogre win by roughly 800 points Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Congrats! Nice report and good fight !

Cheers Old One, some comments on things I’ve learned after my first couple of games,

The Rhinox is really awesome on the charge, he was able to break up some prolonged battles (in my favor).

Leadbelchers shot is so unpredictable, but so awesome, don’t rely on it to much.

The best thing about Yhetees is not the M 7 it’s the scale terrain rule, to get the most out of these guys (and there rather heavy price tag) you really need to take advantage of there special rules.

Soon I will post a list with 2 butchers and another battle report to go with it (It works, it really does)

See you soon (well not literally…) Scroth

Scroth: Inebriated is the correct spelling

Nobody loves me (just kidding  )

Well it looks like I'm going to use snow on the bases but to be honest I haven't actully used it before, so the question is, is games workshop stuff any good? Any hints, tips or tricks you can share would be great, also what about the blood stains, I was just going to use red ink but if you think there’s anything else worth trying that would be great to.

Please comments on the battle report welcome

Scroth

Does nobody use snow? Anyway I was trying to make a list with a butcher but couldn’t get anything to work with any particular success, so I tried this, and by the Great Maw does it work

Bruiser with fistful of laurels, theifstone and a great weapon at 168 points

Butcher with bangstick and a power stone at 180 points

Butcher with scullmantle, tooth Gnoblar and a power stone at 180 points

3 Units of 3 bulls with a bellower at 115 points each

2 Leadbelchers with a bellower at 120 points

Total points: 998

The tooth Gnoblar is just to use up remaining points, you could swap it for heavy amour on the bruiser if you wish

Models: 14
Wounds: 45
Power Dice: 6
Dispel dice: 4

Possible changes

Drop power stones, fistful of laurels and thiefstone for Gorger single man eater or some gnobbos of either type, or upgrades on bulls, you could also drop the bellowers to keep 1 item
Drop Bulls for Leadbelchers or any combination of the above
Drop Leadies for Bulls or any combination of the above

This list focuses on cheaper bulls being augmented by the Butchers, this is why I haven’t included Ironguts or any units of Maneaters. I also haven’t used Yhetees, the Slavegiant or the Scraplauncher because they can’t benefit from the gut magic.

Deployment

Table edge-Bulls-Bulls-Bulls-Leadies

The Butcher with the bang stick goes in the middle unit, the other 2 characters could go in either unit depending on weather you wanted to try and kill flankers by solo charging them with the bruiser or scare them off with the scull mantle toting Butcher.

The butchers would cast bullgorger on the bulls, toothcracker on the Leadies and possibly the unit of bulls closest to the open flank so they were stubborn. Brain gobbler and bonecruncher would be used to scare/kill flankers. If you went for the option of a single Maneater cast trollguts on him immediately.

Red ink is what I was going to suggest. Maybe with just a hint of brown mixed in to take the edge off.

@ Will Wobbleguts, good idea with the brown, have you got any hints for the snow flock?

Let the Fluff Continue

When the Earth Eaters began there march Scroth pushed them with an unrelenting savagery that stemmed from his great fear of his all devouring god. Straight thought the Mountains of Mourn, under the shadow of the Black Fortress and into the World Edge Mountains Scroth forced his tribe to march. That was until he came upon the old and abandoned Dwarf hold of Mount Gunbad. Cautiously he led the way into the darkness, his cunning mind hard at work. After establishing that the hold was empty he ordered the great door to be closed and fires be lit, this he decided would be his base from which he would launch his conquests into the world.

Raiding party’s were sent into the Empire take slaves, trading caravans intercepted and looted, Gnoblars forced to expand the hold, hunters sent to get fill the larders, defenses built, war machines created, emissaries sent to the Yhetees and cannons stolen. Over time the hold flourished expanding and growing into a force to be feared, however this could not last, while Scroth was not ready to march to open war, the Dwarfish Kings of Karaz-A-Karak and Zhufar felt they had no choice the Earth Eaters were just becoming to much of a threat.

The bombardment started just as dark fell on a cold winters night, the Dwarfish army’s had set up there great war machines the others side of the valley that was Scroth’s front door. Enraged Scroth readied his troops, swiftly and silently he lead them through the dark and upon the dwarf lines. While the cannonballs flew, the dwarfs hew with axe and hammer but they had underestimated the sheer numbers of Scroth’s hoard. None would survive. Angered Scroth did not stop, he would expand his tribe before the conquest of the world began, the expansion would start with Zhufar…

Scroth out

Sorry Scroth, I've never modelled snow before , so I wouldn't want to tell you to do something that might risk your models.
On the up side, I like your fluff

Nice job, you should be proud you had the patience to put effort into the gnoblars!

looks awesome man!.. only thing i dont like is the blood stains.. yes they seem logical but still.. i just dislike it.. but the paint scheme on the gnoblar looks fantastic! i love it how you can paint the mouth like that..

He he, they're good!  I like the bloodspatters, but I think you should paint the edges brown again - it would look better!

Thanks guys! The gnobbos took about 25 min each and with a little practice I should be able to get that down to 20. That means only 20hrs painting

I've been thinking...

MMU vs MSU

I've been giving this some thought lately and wondering which is better. So lets examine the facts

3 units of 3 bulls with bellowers cost 115pts each. 3 units of 4 ironguts with standard and bellowers cost 222pts each. Total 1011. 6 units of ironguts with bellowers cost 154pts each. Total 924. You can drop bellowers, add XHWs or Champs but the point is there similar costs. Yes the MSU comes out nearly 100pts less but you don't need 3 bait units normally. I have only put in three because I don't know what the rest of the list would look like

Both of these options will form a main battle line of 6 units. Add tyrant, heroes, special and rare to personal taste and you have a 2000-2250 point army. But which one has the advantage?

First of all there hittyness. The MSU does bring more harder hitting models to the table, but they won't be hitting that much due to the fleeing. MMU one the other hand still allows the charges to land but the units hitting will be much harder.

Resilience. There ability to take damage. In MMU we don't care a hell of a lot about the bait, if they get shot to bits at least it's not the heavy weights. They can even screen certain units fron certain shooty elements. They (the hard hitters) on the other hand die just as easy as MMU ironguts. In combat there the same as well execept the MMU will kill more and as such take less back

Discipline. Basically LD. With all units having fear panic is the biggest issue, in both varieties there's not a lot we can do. MSU has more units that can effectively kill stuff so each one's less valuable. MMU does suffer slightly less as by putting Characters into units of 4 your opponent has to kill 2 models, it will also be a tighter deployment often with all units within rage of the general and even kineater. Bulls do have low LD out side of this however

The other stuff

MMU allows more gnobbos and as such scrappies to be taken, both units can perform each others rolls (particually with Bellowers and XHWs). On the banners, there only captured if your broken and run down, and if this happens your probably screwed anyway

Comments welcome

Scroth

Here’s the recipe for my gnobbos

Black undercoat

Start with Scab red over the whole mouth
Pick out the teeth with bleached bone
Tongue blood red, while doing this water it down and wash over teeth

Next is skin, basecoat with Knorloc green
Dry brush with Gretehin green
Apply a lighter drybrushing of 50/50 Gretehin green and rotting flesh to the ears, face and hands
Finally a very dry brushing of rotting flesh to the insides of the ears

The metals are either tin bitz highlighted with boltgun metal and washed with the old inks (red, brown, black, flesh, chestnut) or ink straight on boltgun

Browns are just chosen from scorched brown, brestil brown, snakebite leather, terracotta, dark flesh, vermin brown and calthan brown. Then washed with 1 of the new inks; ogryn flesh, bladab black, devlan mud, gyrphonne sepia and/or highlighted with appropriate lighter colour (if you want specs just ask)  

Bandages are Deneb stone washed with same new inks as above

Base is the foundation like graveyard earth (forgot name), then snow flock

Then the fun part, load up a paintbrush you don't care about with the old red ink and flick it everywhere (to those applicable, remove glasses, it doesn't come off very easy )

And your done. 20 minutes each with practice

Cheers

Scroth

EDIT: forgot last step

The unit grows



Arg, does anyone know how to srink images on tinypic?

That's it I'm afraid

Hey 10 pages! Go me! I really didn't think I'd last a month let alone over a year

Alright I'm going to have a go at writing a article on gut magic, here we go

Gut magic

First of all, how many butchers? I have found one butcher at what ever points level to be ineffective, as a defensive model he isn’t efficient due to high points cost and offensively he cannot really muster enough PD to have an effective phase. If you must take one butcher the Bangstick is a must and a DS the next obvious choice. 2 Butchers I have found works really well at low points and with the Bangstick moderately well at 2K. They provide sufficient defense and offense at a reasonable price. However against armies with 10 magic levels they aren’t going to do much either way. 3 butchers naturally have it better again but will still struggle against 10 level armies. Against average armies they can work very effectively.

Going cold turkey is not a bad move due to the number of model’s you can have around, and with 2 Theifstone you can avoid anything really dangerous most of the time. It is better then a defensive butcher.

The very best way to get good effect out of your butchers is to kill the apposing mage’s. I go like crazy from turn one to do this. If you can knock off a level 4 or even a level 2 early in the game he will suffer big time. His defense is reduced, his offense reduced and as such his ability to function effectively. How to do this is for another article however.

Offense and defense are linked so importantly for ogres. Many generals recommend kiting your mages with all offence items or all defense. They say that splitting the two hampers each other and you end up with neither working well. Due to the fact that many of our spells are RiP and we can have a lot of the at any one time, this is not true for us. It is a snowball effect, if your offense works them your defense will have less to contend with. This is why it is important to get control of the magic phase early, to try and knock off mages, and characters with bound spells and similar.

This is also why I like power stones so much. This is a vast over simplification but for example, if you have the first turn, move up and threaten 3 enemy units with 3 of your own. You manage to get one buff through and he has no DD left. Next turn you charge in and he uses 2-3 PD to get rid of it. Now you’re in trouble, the unit no longer has the ability to win or the chances are even. Not a good situation and one that I’m sure we have all been in. But what happens if you get 2 off? With a power stone? You charge in with your 2 units and now he has a choice, seriously hamper his magic or take his chances. If he does chuck dice at them there’s a reasonable chance he will fail one, if he only stops one presumably the more important one your goal has been achieved. Your other unit may lose but you know this you are prepared for it, you have counter charges ready and now he’s on the back foot. (Note that the priority charges for those 3 units is units with mages hiding in them ) Now the snowball begins. Next turn he’s down defensively and you get 2 through. Etc, etc, etc.

On a slight side not this is also why Theifstone are so good. They have 2 uses, stopping your opponent targeting a specific unit (3 stones) or helping out defensively (1-2). The second use is one that is worth the points every time. Make sure that there in a unit that your opponent wants to target. This is also a measure of how many, if its an important unit then he’s will be willing to have a go a MR 2, if not just 1 will do. You want him to target it so don’t over do it.
Now due to this snowball affect the loss of even 1 butcher is a serious problem, particularly early in the game. Tooling them up with protective items has both disadvantages and advantages. They may take fewer wounds but you can’t spend the points on other helpful stuff. The PD you free up are often being dispelled and therefore effectively used anyway. A better tactic is to keep them out of harms way, something that is only gained with experience.
On that note there is the issue of items that don’t directly effect your magic phase. The Seigebreaker, Scullmantle and fistful are the only one’s I would consider but are appearing less. The Seigebreaker while a great tactical asset to the army doesn’t help out with magic and can put the butcher in danger and/or ineffective places. The scull mantle does help slightly in that it makes Braingobbla more effective, it also cheap so I am keeping it at the moment. Fol has long disappeared.   

Now how to get the spells through? The problem with this is that even a cursory glance at the spells will tell your opponent what he needs to dispel. But fear not there are ways thought it. First of all however a rundown on the spells

Bloodgruel
Heals you butchers, albeit with a 6% chance of wounding them. As such you want to use early. Naturally your opponent being canny and loaded with DD will figure to let everything else through and then dispel this. Don’t complain he just let you spells through. You can heal your butcher back up once his mages are dead . If you are reduced to 1 wound you must consider if it is worth the risk of killing him to regain the wound. You must also consider the consequences of casting another spell and killing him. This is why my wounded butcher stick to Braingobbla first, Bullgorger next and if really necessary Bonecruncher last

Braingobbla
Remember that a unit can only take one panic test per phase so against RnF units it should come after Bonecruncher. Against single models it’s not a bad one to do early. Choose carefully who you target with this spell, a high LD model might be worth the chance if you don’t have anything you need through. If however you have spells yo want off casting this on multiple low LD units is a sure way to draw dice

Bonecruncher
For low toughness, high AS models naturally. Also very good for knocking off a single rank here and there. One thing to consider with this is if cast it on a RnF unit your opponent lets it through, you kill say two models, you’re nearly at panic test level. Cast it again, he’s not going to dispel it and you have  nearly to ranks gone and a panic test to boot.

Bullgorger
This spell make bulls as good as IGs against some opponents and not far behind for others. The biggest issue with it is the S test which is why I like to put a butcher in a unit of bulls and cast it on himself. Naturally such a unit will be close to your general.
It also puts IGs into S7 territory, MEs with handguns into machines. It is more useful then people give it credit for

Toothcracker
The +1T of this spell is quite good at protecting you from magic missiles, and normal shooting. It also works well in combat and basically makes them quite tough. The stubborn is very handy making anvils out of units and protection for when things go wrong.

Trollguts
Remember that snowball effect? The MR is very handy, and the regen makes units quite safe from a wider variedly of sources. The automatic wound is a pain but does make the cookbook worth considering.

Bangstick
Might as well put this here, use similarly to Bonecruncher, first turn it should be last as a nasty surprise. In use later make sure you target units that will need it to be dispelled, it’s primarily for drawing dice, but that won’t happen if you use it on Chaos knights

Now which Buff? They’re all good, but Trollguts has the added bonus of the MR, and as such is good to get off early. Toothcracker is great for a bit of insurance and longer combats but for me the best policy is offence is the best defence. Bullgorger can turn you models into killing machine’s and when striking first you should be aiming to kill everything in base contact.

Backtracking a bit how to get the important spell off. The important spell changes each phase, early its often Trollguts so you don’t get shot to pieces, later Toothcracker and Bullgorger are more effective. The Bonecruncher is anytime, as long as it’s before combat. Braingobbla due to the dice reliant nature (similar to terror) is never important but always useful.   

General rules. Use Bloodgruel early, it makes sense and will draw dice. Use Braingobbla on low LD units to draw dice, use the Bangstick and Bonecruncher on small fragile units to draw dice. Use Braingobbla on high LD units to use last dice,

Tactic No 1. Forcing it through. An effective way to get a buff off is to target the same unit 3-4 times. Persistence is the key. Try Toothcracker on a unit heading for a nasty unit of his he doesn’t want stopped. He dispels it, now try again using two dice, he dispels it. Now cast troll guts on it or another unit, he dispels it. Now try Trollguts again. You use 6 dice. And if you roll only average he will need 2 for the single dice and 3 for the double dice. That’s 10. And he might fail anyway, or you might roll 10-11 for one. If he only uses the same amount of dice them odds are it will get through. At this point you have 2 left  and can have a go at Bullgorger. If he uses DSs so be it, there are only so many, he’s playing a smart game because his mages are going to be dead from turn 2-3 onwards. Note at some point in there the Bangstick should be used on a tasty target to draw a dice. At tis point consider the Powerstone, will another buff get the snowball rolling

Tactic No 2. What’s next. Trying a buff first early is a going to make your opponent wonder. He might leave it waiting for something worse. Regardless, go through the motions and draw all his dice. Now at the end of your phase cast it again. At this point consider the Powerstone, will another buff get the snowball rolling. This sort of thing is augmented by the importance that you placed on this spell earlier. If you spent all your dice trying to draw it so it could get through, but then next turn cast it first do you really care that much.

Tactic No 3. Faking it. Another way to get it through is to use the buff in the manner you would to draw dice. Spam the buffs across the board, now the may not end up on important units but then you opponents not going to use power dice to get rid of it is he. Then you can have another go next round and all of a sudden you have to many buffs to deal with.

Tactic No 4. Double dice. Chucking two dice at the essential spell at the end of your phase is actually fairly solid. You roll well and he doesn’t have much chance.

It’s basically about misdirection and jumping on any small mistake your opponent makes. Tooth Gnoblars help in this and can shove casting values beyond what your opponent can deal with.

The magic phase has become hard for ogre’s but hopefully this will help some people get a foot in the door and once you do this its down hill from there

Comments welcome

Scroth

Well improvement of my game has been something of an interest lately, I was flicking through this blog and noticed the lack of reports, I am going to try and fix this so people can comment and hopefully pick out problems in my game

Anyway, expect more reports in the future, even if there condensed versions of my WHO games

On the creative side of things I expect to paint another 5 gnoblars tomorrow, and will post pics then. I have actually come to a bit of a problem with money (given an ultimatum, work this day or quit- told em to go jump) so the battalion I was planning on buying has been post phoned until I get a source of income (or more likely Christmas comes )

As such my attention is being directed at the mass of terrain I have made but not painted, expect pics here or the cauldron

Scroth

Okay here’s the first Battle report as promised. A 2000 point game with my ogre’s vs my brothers Dwarfs led by one of his friends. He’s new to the game so my bro helped him out. I have incuded EAYP type italics were possible, and red mistake's as well

My list
Tyrant with tenderiser, Longstrider and wyrdstone necklace
Reverted to my normal build the Big T is just too good

Butcher with Scullmantle and 2 theifstone
Dropped Seigebreaker to help magic phase out, slightly usless in this game but hey ho

Butcher with the Bangstick and a DS
Also slightly usless

Butcher with a PS and DS
Pain not being able to get the stone with the Scullmantle and fit in everything else

3 bulls
Just trying out the belief that bulls are usless and cramming in more guts

4 units of 3 Guts
Standard S6 fun, 4 character 4 units

9 tappers
Gotta love hatered

20 Fighters
Corner grabbing and hatred. Use to shut down scouts ability to deploy

2X2 Leadbealchers with bellowers
Another unit that isn’t great against Dwarfs

2 Gorgers
Standard buy in my book, should prove effective

His list (actually it is mine shamelessly stolen)

Runesmith with 2 runes of spellbreaking and master rune of challenge
Cheap general and magic defense all in one, be nice to get a hold of him for the extra VPs

Thane, BSB with strollaz rune
Sneaky item, half a board in 1 turn is nasty. Re roll could make smashing through hard

4 units of 10 dwarf warriors with shields
4 units of 10 slayers
4 units of 10 Longbeards
2 Units of 10 Thunders
10 quarreller rangers with GWs

MSU Dwarfs, nasty as hell, long beards for reduced panic, Slayers for unbreakable, scouts for scouts and thunders for shooting support and S&S

He deployed in a massive horizontal line, unit after unit. The Scouts and a unit of slayers and Longbeards went int he second row behind the 7 units on the left that would be effected by the Strollaz rune, who was in the back row in LBs. The RS was in longbeards just out of range of strollaz

I belive this is a mistake, he should have instead deployed the BSB on the opposite side and used the movement to get the right flank into position instead of his bait and slayer units. He could also then have deployed his thunders 10 wide and effectivly created a bear trap deployment. His syalerss could have been better placed I think also

Here's terrain and deployment after the strollaz rune and his first rurn, He picked the bottom, and I gave him the first turn Because I wanted him waste the first turn of shooting, I figure the last turn could be handy and the because he might over extend himself



Key
Dwarfs
Purple=Slayer
Dark Blue=Longbeard
Light blue-warroir
Red=Thunder
Orange=Scouts

Ogre's
Purple=Tyrant
Dark Blue= Irongut
Light blue = Leadbelcher
Red = Bull

I deployed in this fashion because I want to use the fact that he can't bring all of his units to bear at once against mine and I had vulnerable flanks.

His logic as far as I could gather was the to use the scouts as a hammer (as they have GWs), flee with anything that wasn't a slayer and try and cause some panic tests. He had also I believed moved only 5.5" so for this turn I couldn't charge. A smart thing he did was put syayers on the left edge otherwise I could have charged them at an angle and he would have been unable to flee due to the edge  

My first Turn

Tappers bickered

I realized at this point my butchers were in bad places, as I didn't want them in combat just yet

I declared a charge with the tyrant unit on the longbeards in front of them Figuring if there were in range he would flee and if they weren't he could hold and I would end up 6.5" away which would be the same as not charging

I hind sight I could have stayed exactly were I was and made a bull charge more likely

As it is they were out of range and he held. I moved my LBs up 6" and looked down the barrel. Butchers piled out of units and stuff moved up in a checker pattern, left guts in range as bait, LBs out of range

Standard MSU stuff I really need to end combats quickly, I know the syayers cant flee so there the best to charge but they must die quickly

Looked something like



Magic I cast

Bangstick at front row longbeards - dispelled with 1 dice
1 dice Bonecruncher at same- Dispelled with 1
2 dice Bonecruncher at same- 2 dice at it failed. It killed a couple

He now had 1 DD so I stuck with 2 PD

Bullgorger on bulls
Bullgorger on LBs

Last dice at Braingobbla on Front row Warriors, fail

Shooting

LBs Shot up slayers and warriors knocked of a couple of models

Aiming to kill stuff out right this seemed like a good idea

His 2end Turn

He wheeled the front row longbeards around 45 degree's to redirect my charging units. Everything else moved up as much as possible except thunders and rangers which sat still so they could shoot

Looked something like



The left thunders and rangers caused one wound each on the butchers and the other one's hit the randomly hit tyrant with 1 shot but it was saved by the necklace

He tried to get rid of the Bullgorger but didn't

My second turn

This is the point I realised I would outnumber and auto break a lot of his units, slow coming to the party but better late then early

With that in mind I declared the tyrant's unit to charge the longbeards, expecting him to hold, the left ironguts at the slayers under there nose, they have to hold. The right LBs and the ironguts charged the slayers. The other LB reloaded ready to S&S

His reactions were as expected.

Everything else moved up, butcher's separated and hid from and hid from thunders.. Trappers were fine this turn and moved up as well.

Magic

I figured the last magic phase worked well so I started the same

Bangstick. Let through to killed a warrior

Used 2 dice hers so he would be forced to do the same

Bonecruncher 2 dice. Dispelled

Ditto

He had one dice left again, I had 4. I wanted a buff on IGs so

Cast Bullgorger on other Leadbealchers with one- let though
Cast toothcracker on on left guts - dispelled
Cast Trollguts on left guts- Success

I think he should have used a scroll here

Combat, left guts killed 4 slayers, took 0 wounds in return. Won but unbreakable

Middle combat the tyrant fluffed but the guts killed a bunch. Won and auto broke them, the fleed 12" -1 and I pursued 3"s They were through the rangers and off the board. Rangers passed panic test

The LBs and guts caused 3 wounds through the bull charge and that's it. Won but unbreakable

His 3ird

Charged Tyrant unit and LBs. Lots of charges looked like



Also Rangers move up to charge tyrant unit, to right most units are still wheeled

The LBs stood and shot and killed all bar one who would be killed in combat. Unit charging tyrant is flank
Combat was bloody and brutal

Thunders caused a wound here and there

Not sure what he shot at but he spread his shot, also should have considered expanding his frontage at this stage

Tyrant unit-they caused 2 wounds and I did 2. Combat a draw
Massive mess on right- 1 leadbealcher died and 2 wounds on the guts the unit of 5 slayers was wiped out. This made 2 seperate combats. LBs fleed, dwarfs hit other LBs. Ironguts held
Ironguts on right- Lost two wounds killed 3

My turn 3ird

Trappers bickered

Butcher on right charged longbeards, ironguts charged logbeard/tyrant combat

Magic

1 dice at bullgorger on butcher in combat-dispelled with 1
1 dice at trollguts on tyrant - dispelled with 1
1 dice at toothcraker on right ironguts- dispelled with two
2 dice at bullgorger on butcher- rolled low and he tried i dice but didn't work
2 dice a toothcracker on right guts-Scroll
1 dice and Powerstone on right guts-Scroll again

Not sure if this was a good use of scrolls

Combat

Ironguts on right killed all the slayers for 1 wound. Drew LB combat and butcher/irongut combat. Tyrants unit won but they held due to BSB

Something like



His 4rth

Rangers charged. Right most warriors charges Trappers who S&S (Wanted the Cross fire Wasn't going to happen) They lost and were run down

Slayers charged LBs. Combats drew or I lost and held, all units severely mangled at this point

My fourth

Left Ironguts charged Rangers, LB rallied. Butchers formed up into 1 unit ready to charge warrior that broke through trappers

Magic

Bangstick on Warriors- killed 1
2 dice Toothcracker on butcher unit. Dispeled with 2
2 Dice Trollguts on butcher unit. Dispelled with 3
2 Dice Toothcracker on butchers, cast
1 dice Braingobbla on warriors, LD test passed
1 dice Bloodgruel, sucsess

Looked like(ish)



Ignore lone IG I also took the wrong butcher

His 5th

Warriors reformed ready for Butchers, got rid of a buff (forget which) Thunders expanded as they had no targets

LBs lost and fled were caught and killed. Tyrants unit won and both units were cut down

My 5th

LB and butchers charged Warriors, they would win and run them down. Now free guts moved towards thunders

His 6th

Shot up guts, Stuff died in combat

My last

Guts charged thunders who S&S. One held other was run down

All in all a very bloody and very fun game. I won a solid victory by a couple of points. Thankfully I was able to heal my butchers back up over 1/2 strength. Killed both his character in there somewhere so that was some handy points

We both had a couple of units that did a whole lot of nothing and I am going to change the Dwarf list to units of 15. These units were the only ones with full strength too. Fear played a big part in this game once I managed to win combats.

Blood for the MAW!!

Scroth

Another article, about how I game. An example of what I mean, some people create varied lists and use extensive knowledge of there opponent's books to match up the best unit to deal with it.

Note: Strategy, by definition is the overall battle plan, decided before the units hit the table. Tactics are the tricks and stuff that each unit has and uses to be effective. EG the refused flank is a strategy, charging gnobbos into units that have to purse so there are slowed down is one of gnoblars tactics to for fill there roll in the stratagy, in this case a refused flank. Another would be march blocking

Gaming My way

Tactical versatility. That is how I game. Every list I create has at least 2 general strategies and more likely 3-4. There are often specific strategies that are used for different armies, often gained through experience with the list and against armies but also considered when creating the list. Often this is in the sense of the style of the army rather then the actual book. EG, a fast moving army, a defensive static army, a shooting heavy army. When writing the lists I must be carful not to try in too many strategies or they will all become ineffective, an example of this would be squeezing in a unit of yhetee's. They really need 2 units, and with just one often die or panic, with 2 this is combated. The single unit is ineffective and reduces the effectiveness of the rest of my army by restricting points

At the start of deployment I often stall with units of gnoblars so I can get an idea of what he is planning. I do not re-actively deploy however, I get pro-active and go about choosing the best strategy to deal with his particular list and style. I will change strategies in the middle of deployment or even part way through the game. This is because I have more information and now believe there is a better option or due to the blaring obviousness of traps in warhammer need to keep my oppenent on the back foot.

When turn one begins I choose the best tactic for each unit in relation to its particular roll in this game and perform it. I will change tactics or the roll of the unit due to events in the game when ever I please. You cannot lock yourself into anything due to the sheer visibility of battle plans.

I also got like crazy to stop my opponents magic and shooting. A unit of archers is not just worth it's cost in VPs. If you can kill it on turn 2-3 that is 3-4 units of shooting your opponent has been deprived. Even stopping it with a gorger on turn 2 and killing it on turn 5 is perfectly acceptable. The game designers know that the game only lasts for 6(ish) turns and calculate this into the cost of such units. This goes even more so for magic, if I can stop his magic early and reduce it's effectiveness I am also increasing my magics effectiveness.

Look at it this way, a RnF 20 model combat unit killed on turn 2 earns exactly the same amounts of points as one killed on turn 5. It is even better in that you don't have to worry about keeping those tasty standards for as long. A unit of 20 missile models killed (or just as good stopped) on turn 2 no longer shoots.

I have a huge database of tactics for each unit (which incidentally is the basis for my individual unit tactica) and many any different sorts of strategies that I will right up sometime.

I might also add that I am a very logical person, and this is how I approach a lot of things including basket ball and essay topics. You come opon a situation and choose the best possible option. Never stop learning different options and when they are most effective and you can't go wrong

Hope some people find that interesting, would love to get some feedback of any sort

Scroth

Well I played my first Skragg list last night and got a massacre. 2500 points against a 10 Magic level O&G army. He fielded a lot of stuff, orcs with XHWs, Night gobbos with fanatics and nets, a unit of trolls, a giant, and shamans running around in chariots. Also some siege. My list and the reasoning

Skragg
Central due to frenzy and being genral. In bulls LD

Butcher with Seigebreaker and scullmantle
Laking a S7 without even with bullgorger this seemed like a good idea

Butcher with bangstick and dispel scroll
Standard stuff, with 6 DD hopfull 1 scroll will be enough

Butcher with fistful of laurals and 2 theifstones
Supportive butchers had vanished in my lists but this guy in a unit of ME's is great. This unit is a prime target for magic so the theif stones keep it safe and drain his magic buitifully, the Fol turns them into a great anvil or tarpit

I decided to go with full magic when fielding Skragg because I figured I could bring enough models to the table for it to have plenty of targets, more on this below. Would drop 1 for 2K

3 units of 3 Bulls with XHWs and bellowers (-1 bellower)
With Bullgorger effecting S, Ironguts just didn't seem worth it, panic could be an issue, the missing bellower is to fit in the points limit

2 units of 20 gnoblar fighters
Essential IMO, great for refused flanks, stalling in combat and assuring your own table quaters

9 Trappers
Standard must have, not as essential in a list were gorgers are strife and would drop if playing 2K

4 Gorgers
There roll in tis list is to shut down seige/shooting, eat mages and primarily pin units so I can cahrge in with buffed ogre's

2 units of 2 LBs with bellowers
Standard rolls bait and particularly dealing with flankers

2 units of 3 Maneaters with brace of handguns
Bohs because bullgroger is goig to be flying around a lot, hammer units 

And my reasoning is basically what happened, 1 level 2 shaman got eaten by a gorger, another got bonecrunchered to death.  2 Other gorger pinned 2 units of orcs in place who were smushed by MEs and bulls. Fanatics were triggered early by last gorger and trappers then shot and killed with handguns. or crushed with fighters. 1 spear chucca was also disabled by fighters.

3 of his his chariots got the jump on my MEs with the butcher but they had trollguts on them. Held due to Fol. His magic was quite deadly early on and all of my characters ended up on 1 wound at one point or another. His gaint terrored the trappers and tried to thump with club Skragg, but I test was passed. Trolls got baited and flank charged, took quite a while to wear them down

The dice were even all game and I got a well deserved win (according to my foe). I liked having the terror on Skragg quite handy (considered getting 2 gaints but not worth it IMHO), frenzy wasn't a problem simply screened him so he had to move straight.   

---

On another note my standard 2250 point list has changed a bit lately

Tyrant with tenderiser, wyrdstone, longstrider, luck gnobbo, Bohs, Heavy armour
I just keep coming back to the LS and Tenderiser.

Bucher with two theifstones and fistful of laurals
In MEs, supportive, dont cast spells with him that hurt him early

Butcher with bangstick and dispel scroll
Standard stuff

Butcher with scullmantle and DS
Would like a power stone here but 2 scrolls is the minimum for me

2 units of 3 bulls with extra hand weapons and bellowers
Bullgorger for hittyness, trollguts for screens for MEs. Tyrant here

2 units of 20 (+1) Gnoblar fighters
Standard helpfuf gnobbos

9 Trappers
Standard essential gnobbos

3 units of 3 ironguts
Standard MSU stuff, 2 butchers here

2 units of 2 Leadbealchers with bellowers
For dealing with flankers and as bait

3 Maneaters with brace of handguns and heavy armour
Hammer or anvil. Very nice unit

1 Gorger
More for the treat of a gorger then actually doing a lot, still eats mages, shooting or stops nasty units

Heavy armour on MEs, tyrant and extra gnobbo fighter were to use up final points

I think this is one of the best lists I have to date, so far its 4 solid victories to zip which is very nice

Comments welcome

Scroth

Howdy people Gnoblar's are being ignored but I though I might do a tactical article on my new favorite unit. Maneaters.

Individual Unit Tactics: Maneaters

Equipping them is a harder choice then you would think. GWs are great at S7 but personally I find it is often overkill and leave's you striking last. Next up is a longsword; WS5 means WS3 is hitting you on 5+, which is nice, even better, your hitting WS 4 on 3s. Combined with the -3 to AS it make's them very good a mowing through Light to Medium infantry. Add bullgorger and let the good times roll

Best of all are brace of handguns, combine this with bullgorger and you have a killing machine, and the added option of a S&S, decent ranged capabilities with minimal negs to hit. This is what I'm using at the moment but am considering going to CLS in a list with no shooting other then sharp stuff.

Heavy Armour is nice for stopping horse's attacks and bow fire, but not essential. A good buy for some final points

Unit size should be 3-4 with at least one character. I have tried 2x2 and they just get shot of the board, even with a tyrant/bruisers irongut deathstar running down the middle. 2 units of 3 is much more interesting and can work well. Expensive though.

Well the next thing you have to worry about is how to keep them alive until they get in combat.

-Gut magic, simple but effective. Naturally as there stubborn trollguts is better. But then you often want bullgorger on them. And it's not necessarily going to be there when you need it.
-Screens, you have two options here trappers and naked bulls. I like two naked bull units, they can also be used as bait and catch your opponent off guard. Trappers are better at walking in front of rock lobba's
-Terrain, obvious and standard operating procedure, well worth considering when choosing sides
-Thiefstone's, 2 is a good bet, this give's the character some spare points and leaves your opponent able to cast at them but with difficulty
-Runemaw, this means a BSB with no other magic items. Such a character is easy to kill and well worth it. Plus if you rely on a 1/6 chance it will go wrong some time or another
-Hit distribution, the best one of all, a butcher is a good choice as having one that's not going to stop casting due to panic is nice. He also kits out well (2 GTSs and Fol, more on this below). The other option is a BSB, (2 GTSs, sword of might) for a bit more hittyness. Note I wouldn’t rate boh on this guy very high as he is bs 3. Finally you can put your tyrant in there for more distribution and hittyness. I'm yet to fully exsplore this so will leave it there

You will note the 2 char's that I recommend both allow a re-roll to break test. This is one of the best thing's you can do with your maneateaters. Effectively making them stubborn for a turn. This make's them great anvils as well as hammers, there more obvious roll. You can then counter charge with a unit of guts in the flank, our tyrant of what ever is handy. One of the best units to charge with and most amusing is gnoblars. Set up like this

           BADGUYS
           MANNIES
Gnobs                Gnobs

2 units is best in case you bicker, but often just charging with one and reducing the number of casualties is best. The corner to corner contact means you shouldn't be losing more then a gnob or 2.

On other good use is to anchor your flank with these guys. A refused flank even one just held up by gnoblars should be fine with this protecting the edge.

The issue's of not being able to flee. Initially this and there cost kept me away but with good thinking you should never take a charge your really don't want to. Trappers and 3 man units of ogre's can easily re-direct the threat. Another fun option is putting a pair of leadbealchers either side of the unit. Not many people will want to go near that believe me.

Comments welcomed

---

On another note here is my new butcherless list. Instead of trying to write it from scratch I worked from my "best" butcher list, resulting me being much more satisfied with it. Early testing also proved effective.

Tyrant with tenderiser, wyrdstone, longstrider, luck gnobbo, Bohs, heavy armour (318)
Bruiser with BSB, 2 theifstone's, heavy armour  and a sword of might (in MEs) (209)

2 units of 3 bulls with bellowers (115 each)
1 unit of 20  Gnoblar fighters (40 )
9 Trappers (54)
3 units of 3 ironguts (144 each)

2 units of 2 Leadbealchers with bellowers (120 each)
2 unis of 3 yhetee's (195 each)

3 Maneaters with brace of handguns and heavy armour (258)
1 Gorger (75)

What do you think?

Cheers

Scroth

Wow, that battle report was pretty amazing mate.  Very interesting log.

Thanks ! Don't seem to get many replies, and I have to wonder sometimes...

And yes, game's against MSU dwarfs are pretty amazing

NEXT UPDATE: Actually I'm not sure, guess you will all just have to wait

Well it's been a while since I did  any house rule's so here's a hero level leadbelcher I'm going to call a Thunderlord

Thunderlord

                   M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Thunderlord 6  5    4  5 5 4 3 4  8

Thunderlord's take up a hero slot

Points/Model: 150pts

Weapons and Armour: Leadbelcher great cannon, light armour

Options:

• May choose to upgrade light armour to heavy (+4 points)
• May be accompanied by up to two soot-gnoblars (+5 points each) and/or a luck gnoblar (+5 points)
• May choose to upgrade great cannon to spiked great cannon (+6)

Special Rules

Fear, Bull charge,

US 5:

Leadbelcher Great Cannon:[/b] The Leadbelcher Great Cannon fire's a number of shots equal to double the roll on a artillary dice at a Strength of 5. They will be flaming hits. Roll to hit as normal with the exceptions described below. If a misfire is rolled the unit will take D6 S4 hits. On the first turn it is fired in shall have an additional -1 armour save modifier due to the tighter packing pre-battle.

Once a Thunderlord has opened fire, it may not fire again unless he spends an entire ogre turn stationary and out of base contact with the enemy (rallying also counts). If this is achieved the Thunderlord  has re-loaded and may use his cannon once more. This may be done multiply time's during a battle.

Thunderlords may both move and fire and stand and shoot with their great cannons. They do not suffer from any penalties for moving, long range or multiple shot

Leadbelcher great cannons may be used as hand weapons providing a +1 strength bonus, regardless of whether they are loaded.

Range: 12"s, Strength 5, Multiple shot (2 times artillery dice result)

Soot gnoblar: For each soot gnoblar reduce the result of a misfire by the Thunderlord's unit by one. They are one use only

What do you think? What about the price?

Hi guys,

Thought I might do an Ogre's vs O&Gs (my first army) tactica, hope you enjoy. Note: I don't like tailoring list so will try and keep it generic

Ogre's vs Orcs and Goblins

First of all lets look at the general rule's and attributes. Animosity can be a real pain with the greenies but a competent general will be able to deal with it. Basically the most common way to do this is send two units to do the one job, blasting one of these units of the table can cause panic and increase the effective chance of not being able to do what they are interested in from 1/36 to 1/6.
 On the matter of panic the size matter's rule make's O&Gs quite safe from having half the army disappear off the table. You need to keep this in mind when picking targets with our limited shooting.

Orc Boyz

Waaagh! make's the M4 orcs deceptively quick, as long as you keep it in mind it shouldn't be too much of a problem. Remember the animosity and waagh spells as well. Moving potential 3D6 is scary. They are nasty on the charge though punching 10 S4 attacks, and 5+ static combat res. Best double up on them and try to knock of a rank or two. Also the standard MSU stuff is essential or a nasty unit of maneaters

Savage orc boyz

These guys are primary used with spears and a BSB near by to take hits from nasty units. Be aware and cautious. They can potentially rip apart even man eaters with the banner of butchery. Well worth knocking off a rank or two. Do not charge head on and bait 

Goblins

Not used much anymore, night goblins being much more interesting. With shields they can be effective at such a low cost however. They don't benefit from waagh! as much and there isn't a lot to be afraid of, bulls are going to be hitting and wounding on 3s but don't think you will always win in a strait up fight. And once you do you won't necessarily be outnumbering so if the generals around the can happily hold. Knocking of a rank or two then hitting them with a unit of 4 should suffice.

Fast cavalry

These guys come in two sorts. Wolfs for out and out speed or spider's to ignore terrain. Neither unit are particularly tough or strong but they can cause a word of annoyance. A la` leadbelcher's! The best unit by far to deal with them, in shooting or combat, with an effective range of 18"s it shouldn't be too hard.
 Failing that yhetee's can do the damage providing you can get the jump on them, scrappies also make good use, being able to amble along behind your line's shooting at the RnF and then charge the fast cav.
If your a little short on them it going to have to be butcher's. All our offensive spells will prove effective provided you can get them through.
 Oh, and Maneaters with Boh should wear them down nicely though there ae going to be lots of targets to choose from

Night Goblins

These guys have a lot more potential then the common or garden varity. The fanatics will often cause more damage to his own troops then yours but a decent general knows and plans for this. Trappers are essential to release these guys as early as possible. If he shuts down the possible scouting position (not hard to do) yopu need to make some hard choice's. A gorger will do the job but only if he turns up straight away, protect him with terrain if possible and then head for the siege. If that's not possible tusks will do the job at a cheap price (free unless you lose the hunter) but they have a lot of potential against this army. Gnoblar fighters won't work so good due to there M4 and bicker which leave's yhetee's if you can do it through terrain or a cheap unit of ogre's.
 Nets can be a real pain hampering out fighting ability and savy general's will use the NGs right next to there orcs so you have to charge both units. They can even use 2 but at least all our good stuff is S4+ and will not be destroyed by having there S reduced to 0.

Medium Cavalry

Orc boar boyz (and big un's), big units of wolfs with shields and savage orc boar boyz fit into this category, they don't hit like heavy cavalry and are a bit of a misnomer. However against the static res sparse ogre's they can be a pain. They need to be baited or the frenzied type lead on a dance, preferably into terrain. Be aware of the 18" charge the wolfs have or your bait might end up dead and hammer in combat.

Heavy Cavalry

Savage orc boar boyz Big uns` are about the only thing that fit here. Combined with the banner of butchery they hit like a ton of bricks. Thankfully they are frenzied so trappers, tusks or bulls can be used a bait rather well. The also suffer from animosity and putting Blorc in the is rather silly due to there high cost and low model count. They also die rather easily so Bohs or even better Leadbelchers will ruin their day. I fact I would recommend placing LBx early so you can get him re-acting to your placement and funnel them into some MEs, trappers or toothcrackered IGs

Elite infantry

Orc Big un's` and Black orcs go here. The main thing to realize is they die just as easy to shooting so knock a rank off. The also die just as easily in combat so as long as you get the charge with multiple units they arn't scary. If you get the chance pinning them with a gorger is also nice and means you can thump the rest of his army and leave them till last.

Chariots

Lots of options here, first of all boar chariots. These guys are great at deploying alongside orcs and adding some extra punch. The are quite tough, twice as though as the wolfish kind albeit S7 works just fine. That's basically the best way to deal with them, bait and counter charge with S7. The same can be said for the wolfish kind but be aware of that 18" charge. Also remember your hammer unit can be a piece of terrain, this is quite handy leaving you more units to deal with his large army
 The other option players have with these guys is to use them in conjunction with cavalry adding the oomph. Similar tactics apply and it's really about getting the charge through baiting.

The US 5 version (Character) I would recommend shooting to death. It will cause panic and is going to have a nasty combat character or shaman stranded. Bohs and gut magic are the best bet.

Squig heard   

A ItP elite unit of infantry, these guys are similar. They die easy to shooting or combat. Getting the charge is key, so bring out your bait units

Squig Hoppas

These guys don't need Los to charge and can charge the flank even if they start in the front arc. They are also ItP. The best bet is bonecruncher or the bangstick overcoming that annoying -1 for skirmish. Failing that you can flee there charge as normal so bait and flee will work fine.

Siege   

The most common is the spear chucca's. These can turn out ogre's into kebabs so don't go presenting any flanks. Gorger's, tusk's or a sprint through some tree's by our yhetee's is the best bet. Just use terrain to your advantage in the initial turns
 Rock lobba's and doom diver's can be handled similarly, and unless he rolls well and can guess range's are not too terrible. Once you get close brain gobbla is nice as there raly in range of the general and right next to the board edge.

Trolls

No way to get through the the regen in our case  so mass slaughter is the only way. One novel way is to knock off the general and simply watch them droll. Not that common however and some people may run a goblin big boss on a wolf to help out with this. Bait, flee counter charge.

Pump wagons

Don't let it charge you and not much can go wrong. Remember S7 busts it.

Giant

A La` tyrant with tenderizer or beast killer. LS is the key. Remember he can't flee. Also sharp stuff can be really effective and cheap. Just remember the terror.

Wyvern

Not often seen below 2K cause he's either the general or forcing him to take a LD8 general. LBs will keep the fright in him or your tyrant will work just fine. S&S with MEs is also fun. Again remember the sharp stuff and terror.

Combat Characters

lots of good builds out there and HA, boar, shield give's them a decent save without chipping into the magic quota. Be aware of them solo charging out of RnF.

Magic

Potentially very good. The spirit totem can make getting out stuff through painful. Keep your scrolls for waagh!. Weak LD so if they stray punish with brain gobbla.

Summary and general points

Stick together, do not allow your units to be isolated and swamped.
The large targets are just asking for a tenderising/beastkilling
Release fanatics early with trappers preferably or naked bulls/gorger.
Watch out for gunline's, heavy magic. Gorger's and yhetee's hanging out the side of terrain away from bad stuff is the go. Use terrain.
Get the charge, get the win.
Be selective with your limited shooting
Bait and flee as always
Have fun!

Comments welcome

Scroth

Arg, third page. And I haven't done any painting. Bear with me

Should have pics tommorow

I eagerly anticpate them

JJ

As do I 

Ahh, Guys! Now the pressures on.

I'll see what I can do

Good

JJ