Leadbelcher reloading

I know it sounds like wishful thinking, but this really is the way I read it (not the way I play it cause my opponent wouldn't see it)

May reload if "the Ogre unit spends an entire Ogre turn stationary and out of base contact"

If I don't move I am stationary for the entire ogre turn, why can't I shoot 2 turns in a row if I don't move? 

Wow, never thought of it that way. Maybe they are worth using if this is the case

Nice, but once you have fired you have to spend the turn. To me its obvious that you can't spend before you have fired.

I know it sounds like wishful thinking, but this really is the way I read it (not the way I play it cause my opponent wouldn't see it)

May reload if "the Ogre unit spends an entire Ogre turn stationary and out of base contact"

If I don't move I am stationary for the entire ogre turn, why can't I shoot 2 turns in a row if I don't move? 

that's some very imaginative word theory.  unfortunately, you are not considered stationary when you are shooting. you are considered shooting. therefore: you can shoot. do nothing the next turn (reload) and shoot the third turn.

You can rally and reload though, which is almost as good ... sort of.

You can rally and reload though, which is almost as good ... sort of.

lol, with their leadership, that's a bit iffy.. lol

It isn't horrible. Move up into charge range and shoot a unit. When the Charge you flee. Next turn you Rally/Reload and are ready to repeat that. Then again, unless you do it turn 1 you are not getting many shots off in the game.

Usually works more like this for me:

Move 2 units of 2 lead belchers in to range.
Shoot.
Misfire and blow 1 unit off the table.
Flee from charge with remaining unit.
Continue fleeing
Continue fleeing
Continue fleeing
Flee off the table.

But that's just my luck And it isn't an absolute, one time my lead belchers rallied on turn 6, unfortunately, my opponent shot and killed one of them in the bottom of 6, they failed their panic test and fled off the table anyways.

-Rick

I knew it was too good to be true...
How do you guys fail rally tests on Ld8? That just doesn't make sense to me I trust you are using bellowers for a unit that is meant to flee and rally?

actually, I tend to keep mine near the tyrant too - so that they can supossedly rally on a 10 ......still doesn't work, but at least I try

They are only Ld7 which means with out a musician they have a 50% chance to fail a panic test.

And on one of those occasions, I failed two panic tests both while in range of my general.

Some times the dice love you, some times they don't. But when you roll 11's and 12's on the panic tests and 3's and 4's on the flee distance, you can be pretty sure that your dice are having an affair.

-Rick

At least the misfires are only hits (not wounds) at Strength 4 so if your Leadies are buffed they get some protection (regen or T5) so don't fire them until you get a spell on them.

I sometimes play with two units of 4 LB, which I keep close together..BOOOOM quite spectacular shooting rounds from time to time.

I knew it was too good to be true...
How do you guys fail rally tests on Ld8? That just doesn't make sense to me I trust you are using bellowers for a unit that is meant to flee and rally?

as mentioned before, they are only LD7.. which means that just as often as not, they will fail the rally if you flee.. lol..Dice have a very interesting way of rolling low when you want them to roll high and rolling high when  you want them to roll low.  it's inevitable.

Dice have a very interesting way of rolling low when you want them to roll high and rolling high when  you want them to roll low

I hear your pain, with lead belchers i've found they seem to decimate units and kill far more than paid for them, or they will spectacularly flop at the first opportunity and die of embarrasment

Its interesting though:
with Ld 7 there is a 41.67% chance of failing the test
with Ld 8 there is a 27.78% chance of failing the test
with Ld 9 there is a 16.67% chance of failing the test
with Ld 10 there is a 8.33% chance of failing the test

but i could swear during games those probabilities don't even come close (especially painful when the unit is worth more than a unit of leadbelchers)

Happy

Interesting, I have as of yet, never seen Lead Belchers perform anywhere close to their value in points.

Only once have I actually managed 6 wounds, and that was on a misfire.

Best I've ever done was 3 wounds to a unit of peasant men-at-arms.

On average I've been getting 1 or 2 wounds with them per unit per turn spent shooting.

Honestly, if it weren't for fliers march blocking me, I wouldn't field them at all.

-Rick

I love Leadbelchers but they just don't work. Ever. I don't know what it is about them!

I had someone try to argue with me that a unit of 2 was as good as a Dwarf Organ Gun. HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Wow, in my only 2000pt battles, my leadbelchers have done very well making back more than their points cost

Against HE, the unit destroys a unit of 10 archers and holds up another unit of 10 until help arived (easily 200pts)(they only got of 8 shots in 2 turns of shooting but made back their points in CC)

Against TK, they killed the heirophant on turn 2 or 3, fled a charge rallied, and were threatening the flank of a unit of skelitons when we decided to call it a game

My 2000pt list would be nothing without them, the flexabibity is very handy to have, for me.

Happy

Last game i played i lined up both my 2 man LB units and opened fire on some kroxigors (perfect target), net result, no dead kroxies 4 wounds on my guys.  This is a regular thing and i'm currently converting a 3rd butcher and warbanner to swap them out.  Rubbish.
I'm hopeing the extra magic can blast annoying flyers/fast cav.

HappyGuy:  It seems your LBs did their thing in CC rather than shooting?  3 bulls are cheaper and can bullcharge...

yeah they did do most of their damage in CC against the elves but i still think the options that some LB's create are very useful, sure bulls are about the same price but they cant shoot, i simply run them infront, they shoot, flee a charge if the enimy charges, hopefully rally and are then ready to kill some more stuff.

That is pretty bad luck with the Kroxors though, but a third butcher is really good, it is really funny when people realise what your spells can do and that they have nothing they can really do about it (8 Casting dice and probably the bangstick) plus nobody really expects an ogre army to have 3 lvl 2 mages unless they have seen it before

Happy

I have had my belchers do spectacular damage and and also do spectacular explosions. it's all in the fickle fate of the Dice. And quite frankly, you just get them in the best place and roll the dice. The whole game is like that. All the math theory, and theory hammer and army debate is all thrown out the window.

If my army was so good on paper and that's all we looked at, I would never lose a game. however, we indeed do need to push the plastic and pewter models around the table and roll squares like a Shaman trying to read the spirits in order to enjoy the game.

In the end, you take them or you don't. Your mileage will vary in every game. Hopefully, your strategies and tactics will put you in enough good places to overcome the goofy oddity of the random number generators.

Even on paper Leadbelchers have only an average showing. Each one deals, on average .3 wounds to itself when it fires.

BS 3 = 4+
5 shots on average so 2.5 hits. Against To 3 we wound on a 3+ or 4/6 so 2/3 so 1.6666 wounds. Against To4 we are talking 1.25

Unit of two fires upon the foe. 3 Wounds to them and .6 to itself(on average) or 2.5 on the foe and .6 to itself. The issue, they negate their own AS while the foes still has their AS/Regen/WS. So in reality we are doing roughly 2 wounds to every one we cause ourselves.

The LBs wounds are roughly 18.33 points a piece. That means we had best be shooting at models that are 9+ points/wound to break even.

Another reason why Iron guts rule!

Another reason why Iron guts rule!

Ironguts wont help you when your opponent is floating flying skirmishers around your advancing line.

then again, it's not like lead belchers will either, but at least they look threatening.

-Rick

i love my LB they do good for me ill kill off on half a unit with three LB. i take three unites of three blast flee then slam with a ton of ironguts

Another reason why Iron guts rule!

Ironguts wont help you when your opponent is floating flying skirmishers around your advancing line.

then again, it's not like lead belchers will either, but at least they look threatening.

-Rick

Another reason why Gnoblar Trappers rule!

 

LOL, not like Gnoblar trappers are going to hit anything either. BS 3 means they're already hitting on 4s, multi shot puts it at 5s, and with moving to get into that tiny 8" range 6s. 16 shots, you'll get 2, maybe 3 hits. S2 vs T3 or T4 means you'll be needing 5s and 6s to wound, and your opponent will still have their full armor/ward/regen saves. The odds of doing even a single wound a turn is not so hot.

-Rick

That was the joke, Rick.

I laughed

-Rick

Remember Rick that gnoblars have throwing weapons so they don't get the penalty for moving and shooting, or long range.