Ogre Kingdoms Rewrite Discussion

Bob the Butcher 29 Apr 2008

Well after reading other threads I thought I would start this one. (Oops it may need moving Moderators)

What would people like to see in the new Ogre Codex?

Here are some things I would like.

1/ Obviously making the Rhinox Riders an official Rare choice.

2/ Magic banners hardly ever get used (new ones or cheaper points costs?).

3/ Tweaking of some of our magic items (as for banners)

4/ Slight points reduction Hunters

5/ Special ranking rules for multi wound units (3 or 4 wide instead of 5 wide to get rank bonus)no hope of this 1.

6/ Bull charge bonus for any sized units

7/ Bull charge distance for impact hits reduced to 4"s minimum

8/ Gorgers 2 for 1 slot or made Special.

WC's Achievements 29/101 = 29% completed

Ogres 6:0:0 (New Book) vs. Dwarves, Empire, HE's, VC's, WE's and Skaven.

2008 Nominated for: Achievements in Tactics & Strategy Ogre Stronghold

Ney 29 Apr 2008

Well being new to ogres I probably don't have the same insight as you people, but my list:

1) obviusly Rhinox riders as official rare, maybe slightly toned down in stats and point values, and most importanlty official models!

2) large revamp of magic items, too many items that seems like a must get, and too many that people never use (banners especially, I don't think i have seen a serious army build with a BSB in here yet, but i'm still new)

3) hunters need something done, a point reduction may be enough to make em viable in tournament lists, but I'm not convinced. Tho I aint got a better idea

4) allow a bruiser to be general, and have a slaughtermaster under 3000 points. This may be too poweful, so it may have to come with the restriction that butchers become a 0-1 choice. I'd think this would be a great idea, so we can get some vararity in the armies.

I think bob's points 6 and 7 are a good idea, but currently ogres are a decent army, and currently the ideas makes us better, and that has to come with a cost, so I'm not sure I want 6 and 7 if it increases point costs.

My very first pet gnoblar isn't he cute?

Reg06 29 Apr 2008

Since the discussions about the yet to be announced OK book keep popping up, and all say the same thing here is a skewered thread for ALL discussions about the rewrite of the OK book. All discussion on that topic not posted here will be gut barged.

Thanks,
Reg06

Quote from: Ganymede on Mar 26, 2009, 11:17:45 AM

If by RAW, you mean "Reg06's Audacious Whims", then you'd be right.

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Auca 29 Apr 2008

Letting Hunters move and shoot would do wonders for their popularity. Shame such a cool model doesn't get much of a chance to shine.

Reducing the Overtyrant to Lord and Hero instead of 2 Lords would be nice. Would still cost a barrel of points but at least smaller armies could get a chance to use him.

Fantasyfreak 29 Apr 2008

Good thinking as they do seem to happen pretty often

I'll put my thoughts here for the record;

Rhinox riders in the army book

Hunter- Move and shoot, maybe a rare slot.

Re-do of magic items, to help the army overall and to promote useage of Bruisers and Hunters

Better rules for Ironfists, maybe being able to use as shield and an extra attack. (ponits increase)

Cheaper Maneaters, with the option to include Ironfists, or give them an extra wound/T

Slavegiant points reduction and rid of the stupid Throttle with chain

Bull charge working differently- maybe no range limit for IH to take effect.

Sort out Champions- make them worthwhile to take.

Lift the 0-1 on Tyrants

Probably more but I'm tired to think

Quote from: Thunder lord klement on Aug 12, 2011, 04:39:47 PM

You can't be old and wise, and have youthful memory... even if you are FF

Achievements 39/101

Latest: 9. Sigh! - lose more than 3 ogres to any one casting of a spell that involved you taking an initiative test as part of it's resolution

W/L/D : 9/10/2

ETP 29 Apr 2008

Allow Hunters to be the army general, give them a slight cost reduction and change the sabre tusk allies to the option of having a unit of sabretusks as a retinue. Finally, add Sabre Tusk Pack as a special choice in our army list (the hunters retinue however only takes up a core, but doesnt count towards minimum core requirements).

I think that would make the hunter a very good choice for hero in many armies.

Ogre bulls should have their cost reduced to 33, and be allowed to take an upgrade to "Rock Hurlers" which gives them a Str 4 version of "sharp stuff". This would give people another reason to take them aside from just the 1 unit with a musician for charge baiting.

Slaughtermaster should require a non-wizard character to act as general, but otherwise be fine. Possibly remove the 0-1 limit on tyrant, and instead put a 0-1 limit on slaughtermasters.

Slave giant should use the exact same rules as the DOW giant.

The Scraplauncher should be seperated into two statlines, one for the rhinox and another for the launcher portion. Each must be attacked seperately, and only the scraplauncher portion dies to a str 7 hit.

Leadbelchers should have a special rule allowing them to ignore panic from self inflicted wounds.

Being able to count ranks of 3 or 4 models as full ranks would do a great deal towards maybe seeing something other than MSU being played.

Eliminate the minimum charge distance of Bull Charge.

Definetly need some updates on magic items, particularly the Thundermace (i think it should work like a stonethrower hit, with the template placed in base contact with the tyrant using it) and banners. A suggested banner or two would be Mawblessed Banner (gut magic spells targetting this unit are easier to cast and harder to dispell. Add +1 to the casting roll of such spells, furthermore remain in play gut magic spells on the unit have +1 to their power level to determine how difficult they are to remove) and Banner of Orobouros (this banner acts as a regular magic standard in all ways, except it does not give any VPs to the enemy, as it consumes itself before being captured).

Rhinox Riders need to be in the army for sure as a rare choice, and i think gorgers should be 2 for 1 rare slot.

Ghark ironskin, Braugh Slavelord, and Golgfag Maneater need to be in the main book as special characters.

Now for silliness

I would make Gnoblar Honcho and Head Honcho hero choices (from gnoblar hordes rules, with honcho being 2 for 1, and head honcho being 1 for 1 and limited to 1 per army). If a gnoblar character is the army general then you may not take any ogre units in the army. The 1+ limit on ogre bulls is removed and replaced by 1+ gnoblar fighters who now (along with trappers) count towards core (but only when a gnoblar hero is the general)

Give fighters the option of full command, light armor, shields, slings, flails, aswell as the option of a mount (attack pig) and spear if they are mounted.

Trappers may take slings, and are limited either by the number of hunters, or by the number of gnoblar head honchos in the army.

Add in the Lucky Gits from gnoblar hordes as a special choice with full command options, this unit was always the best in gnoblar hordes, and would make a fine horde choice in an ogre army looking to fill out its numbers.

The above changes would allow you to play a standard ogre army, with more gnoblar options to make them usefull (such as adding a couple heros to make sure they dont panic at the drop of a hat) aswell as allowing you to play a Gnoblar Hordes army for a laugh (although it would be effective with all the monsterous units you can take, such as yhetee, sabretusks etc)

Belchfist Beastkiller 29 Apr 2008

indeed i agree with the above...with the addition of:

- yhetees should cost slightly less

- there should be a bigger difference between IG and Bulls

- Champions should have +1 WS, A and Ld like Beastmen champions (who also cost 20 points)

- Gorgers might as well be 2 for a Rare choice standard

- Better special characters and a hekc of a lot more choice as that seems to be the way the army books are going now anyway, max choice on special characters. (i doubt we'll see a daemon force not led by a Special Character or two)

Belch!

Belchfist Beastkiller Mountaineater the Everhungry

Warriors of Chaos (Tzeentch mostly)
http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=25064.0

Daemons
http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=9274.0
Ghark Ironskin and tribe
http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=8002.0

Ney 29 Apr 2008

Thx wildcard.

My very first pet gnoblar isn't he cute?

Wildcard 30 Apr 2008

merging this with the stickied thread at the top of this forum

x105 - keeping pace with my wins!

Ogre achievements: 65/101 latest: maneater (play in 5 different venues)

Latest Fantasy Result: ogre kingdoms vs. high elves - 1500 points - win!

8th edition: 105/25/12
New ogres: 36/6/5

I was born and bred in a briar patch!

Grumble guts 30 Apr 2008

How about "when leadbelchers misfire and take wounds rather than a panic test they are dazed for one turn. Cannot move or attack unless charged, if they are charged a penalty to hit in the first round of combat?"

Just a thought!

P.E.T (portable edible treat).

Oniguma 30 Apr 2008

I'm surprised that no one thinks that Lead Belchers are over priced. I can never justify taking them at +20 on a regular Bull what +17 after light armor.

I agree that Giants either need to be just like DoW Giants, lose Throttle, or become cheaper.

I want Gorgers to be immune to poison.

I always use Hunters but I have to admit that I use him more like a unit than a character. He only gets magic items if i need to fill points and getting challenged in combat where it takes my Tusks out of the fight is a problem.

Tooth Gnoblars can be declared after the die roll.

I'm not a Tyrant. I'm a lone Hunter.

Quote from: Manowar on Oct 03, 2009, 04:28:17 PM

Oniguma, the only rules prosecutor in the Warhammer world.

Bob the Butcher 30 Apr 2008

I like the idea of hunters moving and shooting with the usual -1 penalty.

Maybe allowing Slaughter Masters to be taken without Tyrants and as your General with an appropriate points adjustment to prevent everyone taking them all the time.

Banner of Ogre Bravery: All units within 12"s get +1 to leadership 35pts.

Ogre Bulls that take a Banner get the light armour upgrade for free.

WC's Achievements 29/101 = 29% completed

Ogres 6:0:0 (New Book) vs. Dwarves, Empire, HE's, VC's, WE's and Skaven.

2008 Nominated for: Achievements in Tactics & Strategy Ogre Stronghold

Tremendous 01 May 2008

All good points! Here are my thoughts. (If I say something already said just take it as me taking your position on the issue)

1: Some sort of mounted unit. I want a Mount for my Tyrant that isnt illegal!

2: No minimum distance for bull charge to work. You charge, you do impact hits.

3: Hunters get to move AND shoot. Also I agree they arent worthy as characters and should be moved to Rare choices. At least then I could rationalize the cost of taking one as a Mobile bolt thrower.

4: Giants gone from the list. As they are now they're useless point sinks. And really, does it make sense Ogres would take them? The entire race committed genocyde on the greatest race of giants! Why in the heck would they use them to fight? Especially as a rare choice!?! Special choice at a lower cost (Non-stubborn makes em useless) or get rid of them completely

5: Another Lord choice. A Super Leadbelcher, a Slughtermaster (we can use w/o a tyrant), a Ninja Tyrant. Something to give us more choices and more vesatility in our General! Which brings me to me next idea.

6: MORE TROOP OPTIONS!!! I dont care if they have to incorporate Chaos Dwarves into our list we need more options to compete with the new lists comming out.

7: Armor saves boosted by natural toughness. The new DoC army has everything in the list get a 5+ ward. Ogres should get a 5-6+ un-negateable, "tough hide" save on top of a normal (Negated as usual) armor save. Were Ogres and the piddily Nurgle core units are more survivable than us. Thats disgusting.

8: Better Magic items overall. Theres a handful of good stuff and theres a ton of crap. 35 points to make you cause terror, 50 points for a greatweapon that does D3 wounds. Chaos and VC get the same thing in a one hander. DoC at a cheaper cost! Unacceptable. Armor thats finiky at best and Talismans that gnoblars would throw away. Give us better magic stuff! You'd think we'd be set with all the other races paying us in gold and loot! Not to mention everything Maneaters bring back from their raids around the world!

9: A New Hero Choice. Bruisers arent bad, Butchers are a must, Hunters are bleth! I want a 3rd option thats viable. All the other races have 3-5 viable hero choices. Why do we have to settle for 2?

10: Bruisers that cant have bignames or magic anything because of having a BSB. WTF is that all about? No items I could possibly understand but no bignames!?! Does his name fit in one of his hands? The BSB cant be a wallcrusher or a deathcheater? Makes no sense.

11: Bignames, Some are great, others are crap. Make em more like the list of bloodline powers VC gets. Or at least as many options.

12: UC, make em cheaper. Why would I pay 20 points for a UC in my bulls or IG units? Shoot, in the bulls unit I pay 4 points per bull and now their all Crushers! So why does the Crusher cost 20 points and all I get is 1 more attack? Because he can accept challenges?!? G-A-R-B-A-G-E...

Sall I can think of worth mentioning of now.

/rant over.

"BOOM!.... Hur Hur hur"

"Any reason to hit something is a good reason to do it"-Deep thought by Tremendous

Garr Sledgefist 02 May 2008

I'd like to see the Hunter actually be... you know, a HUNTER. A large monster killer, with his move and fire bolt thrower, immune to terror, scout, those hunting spears become +1 strength when he charges 6 inches or more since he can't Bull Charge, and a change in his additional wounds rule on large targets. This sounded fun to me for his harpoon crossbow... Take the Hunter's basic strength (although 6 if a Giantbreaker) and add a D6. The Large Target also does the same, taking their strength and adding a D6. If the Hunter's combined roll is higher than the large target's combined roll, he inflicts another wound as he struggles with the monster instead of the strength test rule in the current edition.

Maybe I'm asking too much, so just some new units to play with would suit me fine. I'd also like to have more than one Big Name on my characters, and maybe some names for Butchers? Doesn't the book say ogres can have big long lists of names? Look at Greasus' name. That's a pretty BIG NAME. In game terms they all only get one... Besides those things, I'm really not concerned about anything else. My ogres play just fine.

Garr Sledgefist 02 May 2008

4: Giants gone from the list. As they are now they're useless point sinks. And really, does it make sense Ogres would take them? The entire race committed genocyde on the greatest race of giants! Why in the heck would they use them to fight? Especially as a rare choice!?! Special choice at a lower cost (Non-stubborn makes em useless) or get rid of them completely

I understand you don't like the Slavegiant, but if they took him out entirely, I'd play a different army, haha. One with a Giant! He is so much fun and mine has a list of absolutely brutal (although unlikely) kills. He's probably my favorite model.

just-josh 02 May 2008

@ Garr Sledgefist:

I understand you don't like the Slavegiant, but if they took him out entirely, I'd play a different army, haha. One with a Giant! He is so much fun and mine has a list of absolutely brutal (although unlikely) kills. He's probably my favorite model.

I couldn't agree more

My Slavegiant has a rather comprehensive list of kills, some down right unbelievable (including the infamous, Gorbad Ironclaw

)... I'd never considering playing alist for OK without my trusty SG

Or, if we were to get rid of them, we should be able to field the DOW Giant

I'd also like to have more than one Big Name on my characters

Multiple big names is what I have been wanting for ages!!! In fact, not long after I first read the army book. I even have a set of house rules, between me and a few friends, that allows us to take up to three.

JJ

Resident Smiley Spam Artist and Fastest Fingers in the Stronghold.

Raising the forum's smiley count, one post at a time, since 2008

Quote from: Shadowlord on Mar 11, 2013, 01:57:18 PM

After all, painting 100 night goblins is something you do in the morning just before you are off to work.

And I think you missed a 0 when you wrote 11 armies. The correct nr should be 110 armies I would think, based on your painting speed.

Lurchy0069 02 May 2008

Multiple big names is what I have been wanting for ages!!! In fact, not long after I first read the army book. I even have a set of house rules, between me and a few friends, that allows us to take up to three.

JJ

same as its the best way

You are young grasshopper, but you have long legs!

Flogger 02 May 2008

The only changes I see as necessary are:

Rhinoxes as mounts for Tyrants and Bruisers (if not the bruiser, make butchers able to be generals)

Rhinox Riders as a rare unit

A 5+ natural save because of thick skin (saurus has scaly skin dammit!) and this can be combined with our Ironfists to make for a 3+ save in close combat (if using hand weapon).

That's all necessary changes I would need, I really want my Tyrant to ride a Rhinox, it would look so awesome on the battlefield.

Record since new book:

Wins: 12
Losses: 6
Draws: 4

Ogre achievements: 41/101

Captain Tineal 02 May 2008

I'd like to see a few things:

1) Standard Bearers counting as Bellowers too.

2) Champs having +1 WS/LD.

3) More unit choices.

4) Ogre units getting +1 Strength on the charge.

5) Multiple Bignames.

6) Bullgorger making the units attacks magical instead of +1S (if #4 went through.)

7) With both the Hunter's bolt thrower and the Slave Giant's Throttle with Chain, change it from a S test to an Init test.

More Gnoblars!!!

Quote from: ThatRickGuy on Jul 22, 2008, 09:42:41 PM

Some times the dice love you, some times they don't. But when you roll 11's and 12's on the panic tests and 3's and 4's on the flee distance, you can be pretty sure that your dice are having an affair.

Lurchy0069 02 May 2008

I'd like to see a few things:

1) Standard Bearers counting as Bellowers too.

2) Champs having +1 WS/LD.

HAHAHAHAHA as if either of these things would ever happen! Does and other armies champs get +1WS/LD? no
Does any other armies standard barers count as musician? no.
If they did it for us they'd have to do it for them and in which case whats the point?

I agree with most of your other points but thats just wishful thinking and i had to say it.

You are young grasshopper, but you have long legs!

Fantasyfreak 02 May 2008

Oni, I agree with a points reduction on Leadbelchers, or even making them slightly better somehow as now they pretty much suck for shooting and are only good because of the minimum models you can have in the unit which is a shame as they are a really characterful troop choice.

Another Lord choice. A Super Leadbelcher,

I think a hero choice wielding a kickass mega cannon (maybe a "Bigbanga" or something with an equally sutible title), would be awesome!

Bignames too, something (a lot needs to be done)

*Thought* I think the Stronghold could as a joint effort write a better, more characterful and viable AB than GW could ever dream of.
A shame really

Quote from: Thunder lord klement on Aug 12, 2011, 04:39:47 PM

You can't be old and wise, and have youthful memory... even if you are FF

Achievements 39/101

Latest: 9. Sigh! - lose more than 3 ogres to any one casting of a spell that involved you taking an initiative test as part of it's resolution

W/L/D : 9/10/2

Oniguma 02 May 2008

That would be awesome but after seeing how much the screwed the pooch on the FAQs I'd be happy enough just working on those.

I'm not a Tyrant. I'm a lone Hunter.

Quote from: Manowar on Oct 03, 2009, 04:28:17 PM

Oniguma, the only rules prosecutor in the Warhammer world.

Lord_Nagash 02 May 2008

Here are my thoughts on it. Stuff I would like to see changed.

Ironguts changed to WS 4. (They are supposed to be elite after all since you have to have a certain amount if you use Graseus)

Gorgers would be 2 to a rare slot

Slave giant dropped to 150 points (since he is not stubborn)

More big names that are worth a damn

Magic items worth taking, especially in the weapons and armor department as they are too limited. No real armor choices for tyrant.

Able to take Slaughtermasters without having to have a Tyrant. (lamest crap I have heard of)

Mounts for characters (except the hunter)

Hunter to take up to 4 cats and move and shoot for crying out loud

Tyrants bumped to Ld 10

Tyrants able to take 100 points magic, 50 points big names (allowing multiple names)
Bruisers able to take 50 points magic (if not BSB), 25 points big names

Leadbelchers reduced in cost by 15 points or be BS 4

Maneaters Ld 9 (keep all the rest of their rules)

All ogres have a 5+ save for thick skin

Ney 02 May 2008

I'd like to see a few things:

1) Standard Bearers counting as Bellowers too.

2) Champs having +1 WS/LD.

HAHAHAHAHA as if either of these things would ever happen! Does and other armies champs get +1WS/LD? no
Does any other armies standard barers count as musician? no.
If they did it for us they'd have to do it for them and in which case whats the point?

I agree with most of your other points but thats just wishful thinking and i had to say it.

Orc champs get +1WS and +1S, so an ogre Champ getting +1WS doesn't seem to far-fetched. I however agree that +1LD will never happen

Standard bearers acting as bellowers seems stupid, because fielding units without bellowers doesnt happen too often, but fielding units without standards happen quite often. Combinging them gives us even less options which is bad. Also the price for upgrading standard bearer and bellower is quite fair as is.

My very first pet gnoblar isn't he cute?

Manowar 02 May 2008

Why won´t the Leadership stuff happen? It´s already happened by the way. Foe-renders have 1+ WS, S and LD.

"It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black."

http://despair.com/viewall.html

"Needs Moar Manowar"

Tiwaz 15 Oct 2009

I should point out that he is not working at GW, merely a retailer. I can't say I'm surprised he was wrong. Can't trust old men with facts ;-) Warseer dismissed the rumor as well, and it's obvious there is no truth to it (albeit it would be nice). I just got worked up... Will go order my book from some other shop then.
Sorry for the "Peter crying wolf"-situation!

Eg Giant-tripper 21 Nov 2009

Was just pondering Slavegiants the other day, and I had an idea - as the giants in the Mountains of Mourn are probably the most direct descendants of the Skytitans, would that mean their blood was more 'pure' and thus would make them more intelligent than the giants that roam the rest of the world, inbred as they are?

To represent this, how about giving the Slavegiant a higher WS and I, 1 less S, and giving them a set number of attacks? Lower the points a smidge and voila - a decent flanker that isn't going to pick up random models in the heat of the moment.

I don't suffer from mental instability. In fact, I enjoy it immensely.

Gutlord Inquisitor: FORUM FIGHT! Me, I'm betting on the stronghold. Sure, they're outnumbered with thick skulls, stubborn bull-headedness and an inflated sense of self-worth, but hey, they're Ogres.

Olag_Foestomper 18 Dec 2009

I can't possibly read all 31 pages of comments here before posting so I'm just gonna let out my ideas...and forgive me if they've been mentioned.

New items PLEASE!

- Rhinox Rider kit (Not Bull Rhinox though...let's give those Forgeworld beauties a reason to keep on being. A mid size between the scarplauncher yearling and the FW models would be cool.)

- More butchers or a butcher plastics kit. (We all know it's a complete fabrication that in order to become a butcher one must consume their right leg.)

- Tyrant\Bruiser\Maneater kit. 'nuff said.

Rules changes!

- Ogre Club counts as hand weapon (like Orc Choppas) and can therefore be used together with the Ironfist. All current rules for those two items stay as is.

- Impact hits from Bullcharge range decreased to half max movement distance (3"), gain +1 strength on hits over full move (6")

- Gut plates are a 6+ save

- Irongut armor is the big stuff, better than heavy. 4+ save for Ironguts

- Ogres can charge through gnoblar units, gnoblars panic.

- Leadbelchers reload if they move under half movement (3") that turn.

That's all I've come up with. I know others have mentioned similar so I'm not claiming they are original ideas, just that I like the thoughts of this.

Chito 18 Dec 2009

I like the charging through gnoblar rule!

Leadbelchers shouldn't have to reload at all. Or if they have to, they shouldn't have to roll to hit, make it like the dwarven organ gun. Or ease up on the misfire consequences.

^ Not a lot of love for the leadies over here.

wildHunter 22 Dec 2009

Here's my two cents on what I'd like to see for Ogre Kingdoms:

As others have said, plastic kits for the heroes would be great. I think it would be great to get a plastic maneater kit as well. Also make the Scraplauncher something that doesn't require a PhD in engineering to assemble.

Points reduction across the board (except for gnoblars of course). Every single unit is over priced.

Remove/change all the clunky restrictions (like gnoblars being tied to bulls, the Slaughter master who can't be a leader, needing to take a banner PLUS a lookout gnoblar just to avoid cannonballs to the chest, Leadbelcher firing mechanics, etc).

More/better special Characters (Skrag is ok, but Greasus needs to be dropped and better ones added).

Maneaters as special choices (why should DoW get them as special but not us?) and/or made as options for unit champions.

More decent magic items. When the war banner is your best magic banner, something is missing...

Rhinox riders (I think everyone pretty much agrees on this).

A rare war monster like a mammoth would be great (and would fit with the sabretusk prehistoric unit theme).

Yhetees as a skirmish unit would be awesome.

Change/Fix the bull charge rule. In fact I wouldn't miss it if they just dropped it altogether.

Make larger unit sizes attractive (by allowing 3 ogres to count for a rank for example) Another way to make this attractive would be to make the bull charge unit ONLY work when you have an ogre in the second rank. So instead of increasing the strength of the hit, large units would be required to create the impact hits in the first place (perhaps additional ranks beyond that could increase the strength or add extra impact hits, not sure). Realistically even with Ogres a few points cheaper, you'll never have more than six in a unit even then (so 3 impact hits at STR 4 and +1 CR for the new ranks rule) As an enemy, all I have to do is shoot it for 3 wounds to kill the CR bonus and it's now down to 2 impact hits and no CR bonus so this big unit is pretty easy to deal with for shooty armies but it would make a Bull unit an actual threat instead of the pretty vanilla unit that they are now. I mean would ogres really bait and flee? Gnoblars for sure, but does that seem like the way ogres would fight? But game mechanics make it necessary to play that way.

More options for Bull units (in fact they might be treated more like dwarf units and make them upgradable to ironguts or maneaters like I said above) Also give them a 6+ armor save for the gut plate. It really won't matter much for game purposes but all the models have them so come on...

Those last two points kind of lead me to a general comment. When I first started ogres, my idea (call me crazy) was that I would have an army of ogres. When I saw gnoblars thrown in I was really disappointed. Over time I came to accept them and use them, but I still have that dream of fielding an ALL ogre army. Maybe I'm the only one who thought that way, but it's something I'd still like to have as a possibility. I'm not saying you should be forced to do it that way, just to have it as an option. I think yhetees and scraplaunchers and giants and all the extras are nice, I mean they give us more options but I would love to field a bunch of large big blocks of ogres sprinkled with maneater champions and a couple of Rhinox Riders on the flanks and some Leadbelchers firing scrap from the hills. Probably won't happen but that to me would be the army that I had originally wanted to field when I started collecting this army.

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition"

Bouldergut 25 Dec 2009

I truely believe that what we need is mostly minor rule changes. Lets not get carried away and over-complicate our army.

That said...

Bullcharge needs a revision

Hunters need to be changed

Slavegiants have got to get an overhaul

gnoblars in general need to be reinvisioned (they just dont mesh well with the ogre theme nor do they function all that well with our playstyle....i see similarities here between the Tau and the Kroot of 40K)

We need a totally revamped magic item list

Gut Magic needs help

We need Rhinox Riders (this is all but a given for our new book)

These are currently the ONLY changes I can really see in our armybook

MeatHook 25 Dec 2009

Well there's a debate about what we need and what we want. We -need- some changes to the core of our army. We -want- lots of bells and baubles because, well, every other army has them. More characters, more flavorful rules, more magic gear to build the kind of themed Ogre army we've always dreamed of.

Gilgre 04 Jan 2010

Hi everyone

I've just recently started playing Ogres as a fun army. I've been playing Warhammer for years now (about 6) and these are just my thoughts from the few games that I've had with them
-Make the Hunter a rare choice as oppposed to Hero.
-Remove the 1+ Bull rule, but have Ogres only count towards Core and special!
-Remove Maneaters from Rare and make them a Champion upgrade for an Ogre unit

I realise this would make the army very different, but I just like the ideas

TuShan 16 Jan 2010

I agree to most of the basic things being said here, so I don't think I have to repeat all the stuff about bull charge, gut magic and so on.

What I've been thinking about is gnoblars. As they are now they tend to lag behind their ogre masters. At the time they finally reach the opponent, the ogres have either already dealt with them or have lost, meaning the little guys are useless (well, more useless than they're supposed to be). I've had a few ideas how to make them more useful:

- Give them M6.
They should be used to keeping up with their bosses. A gnoblar who keeps lagging behind sure won't last long in ogre society. This way they can actually function as shields or as flankers supporting an ogre charge.

- Allow ogres to draw LOS through gnoblar units and charge/shoot through them.
This should propably go both ways, also allowing the enemy to draw LOS through gnoblars to ogres. This would take away the ranged shield function, but open a way to a host of tactical possibilities. In addition, gnoblars being shot through should take the same hits as the original target and a gnoblar unit being charged through should be removed (those that are not trampled scatter in panic).

Granted, this would radically change the way ogres are played, but I think something like this is necessary to bring the little guys upt to par.

Cheers,
TuShan

- This is Firstey, as he is my first and I got him for my very first post :-)

ompalloompa 17 Jan 2010

any word on when the ok book comes out

Not everyone can be as big and bad as we are by the way the fish are for sale

this is gen. smakin-dabum
dis is our fishes fryer he does all da cookin of da fish, he sometimes gets carrieded away and puts it in his nasty soup of magics
dis is my bestest friend he bonks me on da head and tells me when im bein stupedest
his name is tiny
he is my first his name is thumper i make him thump all of my food haha
most recent game win against skaventabled

Gilgre 17 Jan 2010

any word on when the ok book comes out

rumours I have been hearing is this year, BUT this is after Beastmen, New Warhammer book, Orc's, Tomb Kings and then we get one

So by going off of that not until December, or next year

Mad Mazgog 17 Jan 2010

I haven't heard anything concrete, but I am of the mind that as Ogres are one of the older books and are one of the 'lower tier' armies they should be coming sooner rather than later. Just look at beasts.

My two cents about an ogre rewrite would be (or things that would be nice)

- universal point drop for ogre units

- gut plate is 6+ that can be combined

- ironfist 6+ save and counts as extra weapon. possible point increase here.

-gnoblars - largely insignificant given addition - ogres may draw line of site though gnoblars

- unit champions have higher WS

- Ironguts given stubborn and moved to special - like empire greatswords only ogres

- Luckgnoblars - allows one reroll of a failed armor save OR to hit roll

- Hatred added in somewhere, possibly as a magic banner

- reckless ranks - allows ogres to rank up with 3 models wide but may only have a maximum rank bonus of +2 (or even just +1 would be nice)

- bull charge - stays the same except that ogres act like light chariots (d3 impact hits)

No Gut No Glory 19 Jan 2010

I was just watching a battlereport from Blue Table Painting and they have some house rules on Ogres which I find usefull.

No limit on bullcharge, and d3 wound if charged from more then 6 inch

All bulls are stubborn.

Especially the stubborn rule I found a smart awnser. They also added a few units, because Ogres are to expensive.

Zazoo 20 Jan 2010

With the current trend of the army book we can expect that all the restrictions in the book will be lifted, so no more require this for that stuff.

A couple of extra's that I have thought of.

Pigmy Ogres as a special or rare choice that have -1 M, A and W around 20 pts, use the large infantry base and dont have bull charge.

Gnoblars can be bought as upgrades for ogre units like you can for tyrants etc.
Gnoblars are bought like empire detachments and can throw sharp stuff at units that charge the parent unit.

SilentCivilian 20 Jan 2010

I know i am new to this forum but will post the rumours i have heard. (could not find a rumour thread) Feel free to drop a ship of salt on them as my source likes to mix facts with fiction when telling me this stuff but most should ring true.

First of all there will be a new book this year. But dont hold your breath as we are looking towards the end of the year.

Hunters will be able to take up to 4 sabretusks, this will let them break ranks. Also been told he will get the option for a giant cave bear style pet instead of sabretusks. The idea of being able to pull monsters towards himself after a succesful shot was also brought up but he has no idea how far he will be able to pull it.

Leadbelchers will have a unit champ who can shoot grapeshot when charged.

Gut magic will get alot nastier. Did not say how.

Big names will become like Vamp bloodline powers and not have to be taken from magic items allowance.

Finally a vastly improved magic item list, with a few different banners worth taking. (Rumour of one that turns ward saves of any enemies in combat into reg saves)

Take what you will from this, as i say i am not known as an info source but only time will tell if what i have been told is the truth.

Eg Giant-tripper 20 Jan 2010

Thanks, we always appreciate new rumours here, however much seasoning they may require. Welcome to the Stronghold.

If I was going to say any of them were fiction, I'd guess the first one - Hunters already break ranks with their 'tusks, and the idea of being able to drag an enemy monster seems a little far-fetched. That said, GW have been doing pretty curazy things recently.

The third and fourth are pretty predictable, but I'm interested as to how GM is going to get 'nastier', considering how it primarily focusses around buffs, not offensive spells. The miscast table can't really get any nastier.

What really intrigues me however is that banner - it seems very innovative and actually decent without being overpowered in any way (depending on cost of course). It doesn't seem like the sort of thing a fanboy rumour-mongerer would come up with....

Out of interest, what things have your sources been right on in the past?

SilverWarlock 20 Jan 2010

Any idea what is coming out in May yet?

Harry from Warseer has stated it was not TK (and he is reliable). We know 8th edition is during the summer (July ?) and contains orcs and that orcs will be in the fall sometime (so they aren't in May either).

It also is unlikely there would be a 40K release (Blood angels are in April).

Odds are there is an army book between Beasts (February) and 8th (July) I just don't know which (and ogres seem to be likely candidates for the position given this information).

Eg Giant-tripper 20 Jan 2010

Could May simply be a gap month? Otherwise they'll have come up with something sizable every month of the 1st half, and that seems a little unlikely.

SilverWarlock 20 Jan 2010

edit due to confusion

SilentCivilian 20 Jan 2010

Sadly he does not know the release order. Both Ogres and TK are more or less ready to go i have been told. He actually helps with the beta play testing but was not given the Beast book to try. I think he has seen the TK book so will press him on that sommore. I know GW are supposed to have stopped out sourcing play tests but from the way he talks they only get the first draft to try out.

On the whole he is pretty tight lipped about what he knows. Was only told this as myself, him and one other guy showed up at our local club over Christmas week. So if the rumours leaked he knows who to blame.

I know he did get to play test early Skaven, but refused to tell anything. Mainly to wind up our resident Skaven player. He did mention something about tomb scorpions in the next book but was not listening proparly as i was playing a game at the time. Will ask about see what i can find out.

As i said wait and see. Hopefully more will be right than wrong.

May could be a LOTR month?

Eg Giant-tripper 21 Jan 2010

*Slams head repreatedly into desk* Ignore my remark about Harry, I was getting confused with Brimstone.....

SilentCivilian 22 Jan 2010

Heard an intresting rumour of what the mystery May release may be. Supposedly Ice magic is being play tested. If the new Ogre book is out before May, and Yetis are still immune to ice magic you can almost guarentee it will be Kislev.

If Kislev is released first you can bet Yetis will have some kind of ice resistance.

Just thought i would keep you posted on what been said this end.

Eg Giant-tripper 22 Jan 2010

'Fraid the ice magic is old news - it was featued in an article on the GW website, simply as a few unofficial rules people could play around with. They should still be up there, if you want to have a peek, but I wouldn't pin any hopes on Kislev at all.

Then again, I could be wrong, and the article was essential just a set of trial rules as a precursor - but I doubt it.

Hragged 23 Jan 2010

Just noticed a rumour posted on WarSeer about a summer campaign based in Kislev, with a re-release of the Kislev army. Made me think of the last few posts here.

Eg Giant-tripper 24 Jan 2010

I think that's also someone just getting worked up about the ice magic and winter rules. WD made it sound a lot bigger than it actually turned out to be.

reynorpadilla 25 Jan 2010

I had a couple new ideas and tweaks for the (rumored) Ogre Kingdom book.

It would be neat if Gnoblar Trappers could accompany Hunters -- like the Trappers could crawl up on his shoulders, cling to his cloak, sit in his pocket, etc. Then the Hunter could move his full speed and deploy the Trappers as screening units (which he could shoot over) or flanking units (the Trappers could charge a unit in front, while the Hunter breaks flanks to the side).

This "Pocket Gnoblars" rule would eliminate problems with bickering and slow movement of the Gnobs.

A second idea would give all gnoblars the option of being skirmishers, similar to skinks in the Lizardmen book. The skink skirmishers are 7 points as opposed to the ranked warriors, which are 5 points. So what about 4 point gnoblar skirmishers?

Also, if ogres could charge through gnoblar skirmisher units without a panic test, it would be great. In one turn they are a shooting screen/bait and flee unit. In the next the powerhouse ogres can charge through them. It may seem a little too much, but it's really a minor rule tweak compared to the craziness of WoC, DE, VC and Daemons. And it fits the fluff -- I mean gnoblars are pretty much used to getting out of the way of Ogres. It's part of their daily life.

Another interesting idea would be a unit of gnoblars with Ogre "herders." It would be like Rat Ogres only reversed. Or vice versa, allowing gnoblars to create rank bonuses for Ogre units. Of course it could be abused -- but again I don't think it would be super abusive.

Example: A bruiser with HA, GW, BoH = 154. Add 23 gnoblars and you get 210 points. That's still a spendy unit. Disadvantage=slow. I know this idea has been bandied about this forum -- I'm just not sure why it's frowned upon.

Another idea is to deploy mixed units like this:

gBgg
ggg
ggBg
ggg
ggBg

This makes each rank the same width as a full rank of Warriors of Chaos or Saurus Warriors. Rank bonus +3. Outnumber@30=+1.

The bulls kinda surround the gnoblar and vice versa. This could be a requirement in order to be true to the fluff. In fact I think mixed units with ogres goading the gnoblars into battle is more fluffy.

Anyways, as I said in the Paradigm thread, I'm pretty new to Fantasy and OK. Basically, when it comes to these ideas, I don't really know any better.

Time to start feasting...

oma 26 Jan 2010

I loved the Harpoon idea for the hunter. The harpoon shoots an arrow with a rope tied to it, if it hits and wounds, you could pull the monster D6" or make the Giant "Fall Over" Ect.

Fun times.

Quote from: Nando on Dec 24, 2009, 10:23:37 PM

There's a certain thrill in everything coming down to a D6 roll.

Quote from: MeatHook on Dec 30, 2009, 09:58:38 PM

If I had a 10 foot long greatsword, I'd be swinging that thing left and right.

reynorpadilla 27 Jan 2010

A harpoon with a rope tied to it would be a cool giant killer... Or Hydra killer... or dragon killer~!

Time to start feasting...

SilentCivilian 31 Jan 2010

Been a while since i posted so thought i would give a small update on what we managed to squeeze out of my mate last night.

Hunters will be able to take an upgrade so they become a moving bolt thrower. How this combines with the dragging monsters thing i do not know.

Sabre tusks will be able to be taken in packs of 5 or more.

Bull charge will work the same as mino`s (almost a given i know) with no minimum distance.

Scrap launcher no changes, maybe a slight points tweek.

We WILL see rhinox riders. Same rules and points as the forge world rules more or less with small tweeks on both. He could not say how.

Salt and pepper to taste as usual.
Thanks for listening.

reynorpadilla 31 Jan 2010

Any word on timing? Can we expect May?

It kinda makes me frustrated (not at you) cuz if GW told us that a book would be coming out in May, I'd start buying more models now! I mean the Maneater models are still amazing, I like the yhetees, etc. They could be making money from me, but at this point I'm holding off...

Time to start feasting...

SilentCivilian 31 Jan 2010

He cant give me a release date sorry as he is not a GW employee. He is 99% sure both Ogres and TK are more or less ready to go. Almost like they are watching the forums themselves to see which people say will be out first so they can release the other instead.

Maneaters wont see any great change so they are a safe buy i think. Also its always worth buying nice models just to spend time painting imo.

reynorpadilla 02 Feb 2010

I hope Skragg and Gorgers are still useful. Just bought Skragg and three Gorgers.

And a Yhetee! (Planning on three more!)

Time to start feasting...

Yaroslav the Vast 03 Feb 2010

They better make gorgers 2 for 1 rares or I am gonna be P.O.'d. Such a simple change, SO necessary.

The "change ward to regen" banner sounds interesting, but then where do the flaming attacks come from to make that worth spit? Only character weapons? That would be kind of lame still, I think. Combo charge from another unit with flaming attacks banner? That would be neat on the one hand, but could make it totally worthless on the other.

Yaroslav The Vast
Tyrant of the Ash Wastes
Wish List for 8th Ed book: OBE Now!

ex_idol 04 Feb 2010

@Yaroslav: I read "reg saves" to mean regular saves not regeneration saves, makes much more sense, but I could be wrong.

An idea I like is that ogres are stubborn against lower unit strength units, that has been mentioned elsewhere, but if it was coupled with ITP it would be interesting. ITP against lower US models would reduce panic from shooting except warmachines (US3) and also mean they couldn't flee. I know OK rely on bait/flee in many peoples minds, but I just can't see ogres running from what they see as dinner fluffwise

The rule could be called "I'm gonna eat you!" or "I'll grind your bones to make my bread!" bulls and belchers get it against US 1 or 2, guts get it against US3 as they are used to pushing around other ogres and maneaters have seen everything a battlefield can show so always get it (as they do now)

Also, I think the development of the fluff should drive the army, apprentice hunters (well, more young bulls copying their deeds) with throwing spears or bolas, rhinox riders should be a given, belchers who are given better weapons by their chaos dwarf mates (weapon team with big fluff off cannon) as unit upgrade or seperate choice. Anything that really develops the character of the army and gives options for different thematic builds.

As well as the standard, gut plate=6+ save, no minimum distance for bull charge, better items, no reload for belchers, remove restrictions, etc. However , the idea of 3 wide to give rank seems so wrong to me personally, as does WS increase for guts (they are family members and drinking buddies of the tyrant not elite warriors) but a WS increase for maneaters makes sense

Golgfag will probably be hero special character or unit upgrade for maneaters, have fingers crossed for jhared the red too. There really needs a gnobbo special character too, unit upgrade, is extra lucky, a bit mental but funny to field

And, on that point, would love to see gnoblars get a 6+ ward as they are used to dodging ogres feet and bellies

Yaroslav the Vast 04 Feb 2010

rofl Regular Saves would make MUCH more sense. :-) Lets assume that is the case.

I am still working on Stubborn on a 7 in my head. Would such an unreliable stubborn count for very much (unless led by a stubborn char with higher Ld)? It is low enough you really can't base a tactical decision on it; still a big gamble. How might that be exploited tactically? Hmmm...

Guts need the WS buff to get out of the "great potential for either epic success or epic failure". They just can't hit worth anything reliably.

Yaroslav The Vast
Tyrant of the Ash Wastes
Wish List for 8th Ed book: OBE Now!

oma 04 Feb 2010

GM Buff to reroll hits in CC. 2-3 buffs per unit allowed. Sounds nice. Now that 156 point 4 bulls unit with XHW could really do damage. Rerolling hits in CC, S5 with Regen. Whats not to love?

Quote from: Nando on Dec 24, 2009, 10:23:37 PM

There's a certain thrill in everything coming down to a D6 roll.

Quote from: MeatHook on Dec 30, 2009, 09:58:38 PM

If I had a 10 foot long greatsword, I'd be swinging that thing left and right.

Talonz 04 Feb 2010

However , the idea of 3 wide to give rank seems so wrong to me personally,

Why is that?

Take a unit of plaugebearers for instance, 6x2. They are US12 and have a rank bonus. Now join 3 palanquins to it. They go in the front rank and take up the first 2 rows. They alone generate US12 and +1 rank, despite being US2 models. Yet 3 ogres in a line occupy almost exactly the same space, yet are US9 and no rank bonus??

I think the way ranks and US are calculated needs an overhaul.

ex_idol 07 Feb 2010

Why is that?

Take a unit of plaugebearers for instance, 6x2. They are US12 and have a rank bonus. Now join 3 palanquins to it. They go in the front rank and take up the first 2 rows. They alone generate US12 and +1 rank, despite being US2 models. Yet 3 ogres in a line occupy almost exactly the same space, yet are US9 and no rank bonus??

I think the way ranks and US are calculated needs an overhaul.

OK, well to avoid the "We all know DoC are broken" argument, first of all I wouldn't be giving them a rank as they aren't bulking a second rank, they are forming a single rank, an FAQ might disagree with me there though

Also, how many points is that whole unit? Guessing 200 for each herald with gifts etc and 144 for the bearers if no command, so 700ish points gets +3 rank (debatably +2 in my mind) so a 420 bull unit should get +3

Arguing about, they can do, so should we doesn't work.

I think the 3 per rank should stay a bret mechanic (maybe because I also play brets and dislike my armies playing too similarly), also I see ogres as an army that kills stuff, not sits in orderly rear ranks. I think the 3 model rank would be a lazy patch that doesnt seem right to me. A cooler ogre specific rule would be better, eg. impact hits count double to CR. Off top of head it feels better to me, we can be near certain that min charge distance is going so bull charge will be more common and it makes ogres better on offence, counteracts ranks makes rolling on the charge easier which is where ogres should be

I cant give a definitive answer as to why something seems wrong to me, it just does. I would be disappointed if that's what GW deem neccessary to make ogres competitive come re-write and still don't think it is worth 105 points for +1 rank and harder to panic on bulls

But I do agree ranks/US need overhaul, but so much in WFB needs it(magic!!), I wish they would re-write totally from scratch like they did for 6th

reynorpadilla 07 Feb 2010

Without some fix to static CR Ogres will continue to be a very challenging, low leadership army that runs far and fast at the slightest sign of resistance from the enemy.

Perhaps that is how they should be? In the end, is that what appeals to us as Ogre generals?

The thing about this thread that is so great is people come up with so many ideas for how to fix our army. I really hope that if we don't get a new book soon, that someone will be willing to write up a full army book like the fan-based Chaos Dwarf army book.

However I'm pretty darn sure we'll see some fat fiends soon. I could be thinking very wishfully, however...

Time to start feasting...

Old_One_Eye 08 Feb 2010

Ek,Ek,Ek,Ek,Ek!!!

Look at this thread:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243844&page=5

If he is lying,so help me God,I will find him and kill him.

reynorpadilla 08 Feb 2010

I am still working on Stubborn on a 7 in my head. Would such an unreliable stubborn count for very much (unless led by a stubborn char with higher Ld)? It is low enough you really can't base a tactical decision on it; still a big gamble. How might that be exploited tactically? Hmmm...

I think they either need Ld 8 Stubborn or Unbreakable when outnumbering. With Stubborn at Leadership 7, Ogres would still be at a disadvantage with 6 Bulls vs. 20 Empire Swordsmen. Stubborn with Ld 8 seems more fair to me, as no other Core unit in the game has Unbreakable or Stubborn (well Snotlings... but they don't count. Har har). Making stubborn conditional on Ld 8 is great. Unbreakable is disgusting.

Could this Stubborn rule ("They is Puny, We is Big") lead to units of 9 Bulls running around? It would give an edge against the average 20-to-25-model unit. With four attacks each, three St 6 Bull Charge hits, a 3+ save, two ranks and an outnumber and a 3+ save , they would be amazing in Combat. As they should be. (Think about the fluff! Ogres don't bait and flee. Ogres don't flank. They charge!).

Combat rez? Average +2 wounds from Bull Charge, +2 from ranks bonuses, +4 average for combat wounds and +1 for an outnumber. Now that's something to bet on! That's +9 (depending on dice rolls). Now that's something to bet on, even a 351-point unit.

Hrrrmmm. Maybe Stubborn with an Outnumber isn't that necessary.

Time to start feasting...

Talonz 09 Feb 2010

Take a unit of plaugebearers for instance, 6x2. They are US12 and have a rank bonus. Now join 3 palanquins to it. They go in the front rank and take up the first 2 rows. They alone generate US12 and +1 rank, despite being US2 models. Yet 3 ogres in a line occupy almost exactly the same space, yet are US9 and no rank bonus??

I think the way ranks and US are calculated needs an overhaul.

OK, well to avoid the "We all know DoC are broken" argument, first of all I wouldn't be giving them a rank as they aren't bulking a second rank, they are forming a single rank, an FAQ might disagree with me there though

It does. Different sized models take up whatever their footprint indicates in the unit and 'add' to the rank calculation as per the BRB faz pt2. I did muff one thing however, it doesnt change their US. Lets use beastmen as an example this time instead of daemons too.

Unit of 12 gors. Add 3 bull characters to it (not coincidentally the same base size and US as ogres), displacing all those 12 gors to the back rank. That front row of 3 bulls have US9 and +1rank as per the faq.

3 ogres have US9 and 0 rank.

Its simply inconsistent and therefore not balanced.

Ragnar 17 Feb 2010

I would love to see some more help from the mountains. Like yhetee hero, or maybe a gorger hero? Big, messy and effective against ward saves.

W:5 D:1 L:6

oma 27 Mar 2010

A bit of a fluff rewrite. Considering the loud noise an ogre makes when he belches - im comparison to regular musicians noise - I think it would be awesome if this gave some sort of areal benefits.

- Units within 12" reroll all leadership tests, with the exeption to break tests.

Thats a reasonable request i would say. All units can upgrade 1 belcher for 15-20 points extra, and multiple belchers within 12" have no additional effect.

A "current army book owerpowering" additional rule could be something in the lines of this:

- Enemy units within 12" roll 3D6 for each Ld test needed to take, exept break tests, and remove the lowest result.

Quote from: Nando on Dec 24, 2009, 10:23:37 PM

There's a certain thrill in everything coming down to a D6 roll.

Quote from: MeatHook on Dec 30, 2009, 09:58:38 PM

If I had a 10 foot long greatsword, I'd be swinging that thing left and right.

Groinbiter 27 Mar 2010

@oma if we did have the all enemies have to do a ld on 3d6.. what about lizardmen... they already do it on 3d6 and remove the one they want.. how would it affect them.. we would need a more general rule..

Mad Mazgog 06 Apr 2010

Ogres do need an updated army wide special rule. Don't get me wrong I love my bull charge, but it should be simplified to straight impact hits. And ogre club is fluff yes, but outdated and fairly useless in practice, which should be changed to an army wide armor piercing rule.

What the updated army specific rule should be, I dunno. An idea would be 'Large And In Charge' a conditional stubborn, possibly only for characters.

Or even adding in the bigname "Maneater" where the character is immune to psychology and stubborn say roughly 30-35 points

thenick18 11 Apr 2010

I agree that ogres should get an army wide rule. The three things that I have really been hearing a lot of are; rank bonuses for 3 models, army wide stubborn, and no range limit for bull charge. Don't quote me on any of these to be true, but I have played and seen these played as house rules and ogres become a much more enjoyable and capable army to play. They aren't running from combat before getting into combat. I can't wait to run units of (6) bulls or guts with a warbanner. (6) Guts, US18, +1 rank, +1banner, +1 warbanner. Thats a nice way to increase Static Resolution, and at least negate ranks of 25-35 model strong units in horde armies, if you want to charge head on. However as bulls are our basic unit, it would be nice that they can carry 25pts in banners so they could take the Warbanner if wanted.

Chito 11 Apr 2010

I still think we should skirmish or be treated as fast cav. I mean, if you have a friend standing on either side of you, how hard is it for you to move around compared to a block of you and 19 friends??

Glabro 16 May 2010

You're taking things a bit literally there mate.
Nobody's saying that 3 ogre miniatures represent 3 ogres (at least I hope so).
Warhammer is a battle game, not "play war" game (just watch any historical or fantasy war movie and ask yourself: do you see "blocks" of 20 spearmen playing at war there?)

Zippy Wonderdog 19 May 2010

After hearing about some of the changes the new edition is bringing I am beginning to think that Ogres won't be horribly gimped while we wait for an updated book.

Actions speak louder than words, unless your eating a mime of course.

candycake 10 Jul 2011

Fair point but that is just one unit v a whole army. WoC have Chaos Ogres but it don't make 'em us. Sav Orcs feel less "iceage" I'm thinking a bit;

http://www.maniacworld.com/ice-age-milk.html !!!

or more likely a bigger version of;

It seems an unfilled niche in WHWorld

Aunty Doreen's Sewing Circle: preaching tolerance, understanding, and cold-blooded murder throughout the Warhammer world.
(Now increasingly overtaken by CC's Dad K)

P28; W14 D4 L10

CCS Dad in 8th; OKs ; W24 D4 L13 CD; W22 D0 L8 VC; W3 D0 L0 Brets W7 D3 L5

My gnoblog: http://ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=8590.0

Ogur 15 Jul 2011

Something radical: Combine the standard bearer, musician and champion in just one model: The champion! It would be very ogrish to me. Coming from the re-enactment scene I understand the use of banners and musicians in units bigger then say, 20. If you're running around with 3 to 10 guys you really don't need those. They'll be more bother than use. It also fits in well with the "might makes right" filosofy. You do as the boss says or he'll kick your arse to hard you'll be tasting boot cap for a week.

Pip the butcher's gnob!
Fetch the pack gnob!

Only technicians do not trust technology...

My beast army
http://z2.invisionfree.com/herdstone/index.php?showtopic=15968&st=30

candycake 15 Jul 2011

Problem then would be losing flag & Muso in a challenge. Would champ die when fleeing (like slann is it?) if defeated in combat? Not sure thats better!

Sandals 15 Jul 2011

I think that we will end up with command costing a similar number of points to the new books, and certainly following the trend of all the same in the same book. 10 points is about right for a Standard + Musician, as their effects don't really change with the units they go in. +1CR is +1CR, no matter who is waving the flag.

I can see the arguement for Champs to be different, as +1A is different depending on who is fighting. Though I feel that 20 points is too many, I have a nagging feeling that 10 would be too cheap. Would people pay 15pts for a champion?

Quote from: Gutlord Inquisitor on Nov 16, 2011, 02:28:43 PM

The answer to everything is sabretusks. There is no problem that can't be solved at least in part with kitties.

Record: 17/14/5
Last game: 2400 vs Warriors - Win
Learning Points: Cannonballing off a Disc Riding Chaos Lord is immensly satisfying!

Ogre Achievements: 52/101
Latest Achievement: Timber!

MeatHook 16 Jul 2011

I'd pay 15 points for a Champ.

jtrowell 17 Jul 2011

As even tomb king charioteers champion only cost 10 points in their new book, I don't expect Ogre bruisers to cost more, unless of course they give them other abilities, like +1S and/or CC like orc champions

I find that 10 points champions in multiwound units are very useful as they help to distribute the wounds on several models before removing one and losing attacks, but at the same time such smaller units might lose LoS faster if they take a champion, and just one more attack is useful, but not so much that it should cost more than that from my point of view.

The worlds best swordsman doesnt fear the second best; he fears the worst swordsman, because he cant predict what the idiot will do.
-- Honor Harrington ("The Honor of the Queen")

MeatHook 17 Jul 2011

You know I just thought of something kind of cool.

First. You release new Maneater plastic kits that are customizable.

Second. You release a setup like Orcs and Goblins that allow for different "flavors" of army Lords, in the Ogre's case: Tribe Tyrants and Maneater Tyrants.

Tribe Tyrants use the standard Tyrant build. Maneaters use the various Maneater metal minis. Combine a few rules between each (like say Immune to Psychology), give Maneaters the Stubborn rule and maybe a rule that reflects their cultural experiences abroad (a Ninja Maneater Tyrant *drool*), and give the Tyrant's maybe a free Big Name up to X amount of points, or some other rule to set them apart (like say, Strength 6).

The entire build of the army would shift from that choice. Tribal Armies or Maneater Armies. Hell, make Slaughtermasters free of having Tyrant's, and you can make a Butcher Army, too.

Just a thought.

Torg 24 Jul 2011

Look at the right side of p. 266 in the BRB. That looks like a chariot with an Arby Maneater on it.

You shall fear the warppuppies for the warppuppies have teeth and are hungry, and forsooth they have decided that thy are crunchy and taste good with ketchup

Eg Giant-tripper 24 Jul 2011

Indeedy do, but if the rumours are anything to go by it isn't going have a profile in the book, which is a shame.

Just thought - by October this thread, which has been active for 3 years now, and was the first one in which I posted, will be redundant...

MeatHook 26 Jul 2011

Indeedy do, but if the rumours are anything to go by it isn't going have a profile in the book, which is a shame.

Just thought - by October this thread, which has been active for 3 years now, and was the first one in which I posted, will be redundant...

Give it five years, Eg, and we'll be back to wanting a new book.

Vashta 26 Jul 2011

I have a feeling that the new ogre book will play up to the caveman archetype

Cormorant 26 Jul 2011

Indeedy do, but if the rumours are anything to go by it isn't going have a profile in the book, which is a shame.

Just thought - by October this thread, which has been active for 3 years now, and was the first one in which I posted, will be redundant...

Gosh I would hope we would have a new one before then! Oh wait...its been seven years to get this one assuming it true it comes out in Octogre... nvm 0_o

Give it five years, Eg, and we'll be back to wanting a new book.

Help me decide my next army to play! http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=20309.new#new

Total Ogre Record:
40 W (15 massacres) / 15 D/ 12 L

Accomplishments: (2150 RTT) Maul in the Mall 2011 - Tournament Champion

Most Recent Game: 2150 vs. Beasts - my brother decided he wanted to try to beat my RTT list...yea, he didnt fair well at all. (Massacre)

candycake 07 Aug 2011

Just seen this exchange on TWF about the new book;

Daedalus81 wrote:
Please oh please let this be a balanced book...

Xtapl wrote:

It won't be. I don't even know that I want it to be. I think an army full of Ogres should be pants-shatting frightening....

Not much to add to that really!

riparato 09 Aug 2011

I think it should be possible to take a bruiser and a butcher in 1k . Seems silly that the only thing stopping us is 10points. That's a 5point drop on each hero. Not so far fetched is it?

Cormorant 10 Aug 2011

I think it should be possible to take a bruiser and a butcher in 1k . Seems silly that the only thing stopping us is 10points. That's a 5point drop on each hero. Not so far fetched is it?

With the new book I think this may very well be possible!

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