Ogre Army 7th edition book revision, updated

Hey thanks to everyone who commented on the original incarnation of these revision ideas.  I've taken into consideration some of the comments and I tried to tone things down somewhat.  I think the best Armor Save available to a non-mounted character is 3+ which is achievable in the current codex as well.  I also left the hunter as a Rare instead of a hero so that he might have seem somewhat attractive to include in a list.  As a hero, he's just not very compelling compared to the others.  Maybe he should just be beefed up and turned into a Special character instead since the  7th ed army books seem to be chock full of special characters.  Also, I took away alot of the 'I'll fight with 1 arm tied behind my back' rules that seemed to run rampant in 6th ed, namely the 0-1 rules for some units.  This has been completely wiped out in High Elves and I think its a good trend that should continue.  The gnoblar-Bull symbiosis is also along those lines.  But since you shouldn't have a gnoblar horde for an ogre list I moved them to special.  So therefore you can no take 4 gnoblar units without having to take Bulls (but who would really blow all their specials on gnoblars?).  In general the idea was to give more options for army creation to the Ogre general.  So Bulls can take 2 handed weapons, Butchers can be the army general, upgraded giants are available, etc, etc.

The funnest part though in coming up with this was thinking of interesting, flavorful names for new magic items.  I have ideas for descriptions, but the post is already long as it is so I didn't include them.

So here is the update for further comments:

Rules:

Impact hits regardless of the distance charged.
"An Ogre is Twice a Man" rule: Only 3 models required to form a rank.  Only 3 rank and file required for Look Out Sir and Targeting rules.
No more ogre clubs, however all ogre attacks are armor piercing to reflect that Ogres are stronger than just strength 4.

Big Names:

All big names now cost 25 pts.  Butchers & Slaughtermasters can now choose these.
Kineater:  radius increased to 12” for panic re-rolls.  Also, with this big name gnoblars may re-roll bickering when inside this radius.
Mawseeker:  +1 Toughness, -1 Initiative.
Ironblood: +1 Armor Save.
Cragsnapper: +1 Strength, and may not use magic weapons.
Longstrider:  same as before.
Tinbasher:  all close combat attacks are armor piercing.
Deathcheater:  5+ ward save
Wallcrusher:  adds 1 impact hit and bearer can re-roll all impact hits which fail to wound.
Stonecruncher: (butcher or slaughtermaster only) Ignore the first miscast.

Magic Items:

Weapons:
Thundermace cost up to 75 pts.  Instead of a single WS roll, works exactly like a stone thrower strength 4[8] to everything under the template.
Siegebreaker: same
Skullplucker:  gone
Bloodcleaver:  same
Mountainsplitter: 55 pts. hand weapon, adds +1 strength, no armor saves allowed.
Rocktooth: 40 pts ironfist, causes D2 wounds per hit.
Direjaws: 45 pts. counts as two hand weapons, bearer immune to psycology.
The Cutter: 50 pts. Cathayan longsword (with appropriate bonuses) and bearer gets +1 Attack.

Armor:
Bituminous Scale:  75 pts. Heavy Armor.  Grants MR 2 and opponents suffer -1 Attack against the bearer (however they always get at least one attack)
Mastadon Armor: gone
Greatskull: gone
Bullgut: down to 25 pts.
Gut Maw: down to 25 pts.
Greedy Fist: 50 pts. gut plate which grants a 5+ ward save and destroys any item on a successful ward save.
Spinecrusher: 35 pts. gut plate.  Adds 2 Str 4 attacks at bearers WS on the charge and adds +1 strength to bearer’s impact hits.

Talismans:
Cathayan Jet: gone
Spangleshard: gone
Wyrdstone Necklace: same
Gnoblar Thiefstone: same
Jopnard Yawl: 25 pts. one use item.  Bearer (and unit) become frenzied.
Lodeband:  30 pts.  The bearer of this band (and any unit he is with) receives +1 bonus to combat resolution.
Raknor Lots: 25 pts. Once per turn the bearer can re-roll 1 dice (to hit, to wound, or an armor save).  He may not re-roll ward saves.

Arcane Items:
Hellheart: gone
Grut’s sickle: gone
Halfling cookbook: same
Bangstick: same
Skullmantle: same
Mournestone:  35 pts. One use, lasts until the start of your next magic phase.  Opponents must re-roll successful dispel attempts.
Cracked Cauldron: 25 pts.  Butcher or Slaughtermaster can use one extra dice than normal (if they chose and if there are enough dice available) to cast a spell.
Grut’s Knuckleshards:  35 pts. Bound spell - power level 4.  Range 18”.  Causes a strength 5 hit.  Works like a bolt thrower and penetrates ranks but an armor save is allowed.  For each wound inflicted by this spell, the next spell cast by a wizard with this item in the same phase adds this number to its casting roll.  However if the item fails to inflict at least one wound, it blows up and the Butcher takes a strength 5 hit and all models in base contact with him take a strength 4 hit.  In addition, the item can no longer be used for the remainder of the battle.
Jaw of Gashrend: 15 pts.  Add +1 to rolls on the butcher miscast table.

Enchanted Items:
Brahmir Statue: gone.
Daemon-Killer Scars: down to 25 pts.
Greyback Pelt: gone.
Fractured Bloodstone:  25 pts. Gorgers get +1 on their rolls to come in.
Jade Lion: gone.
Rock Eye: gone.
Fistful of Laurels: same
Noxhide Potion:  20 pts.  Same effect as Bloodgruel spell, but usable by any character.

Banners:
Dragonhide:  75 pts. Allows unit to always re-roll 1s on to hit, to wound, or armor saves.
Ragbanner:  gone.
Bull Standard: down to 15 pts.
Rune Maw:  gone.
Crag Caller:  25 pts. Unit may move normally through difficult terrain.
Mournewind Banner: 50 pts.  All shooting at this unit is at -1 and any artillery dice can also be re-rolled if you choose.
Jade Pike:  35 pts. unit re-rolls all failed psychology tests.

Magic:

Buff spell range increased to 9” for butchers and 18" for Slaughter masters.
Re-buff option:  This would allow a second casting of the same spell on a unit to increase its dispel roll value.  A spell can only be re-buffed one time and once rebuffed, has a dispel value of 10.  The casting level of the rebuff is 6 and each successful rebuff cast per turn of that spell or *any* other rebuff increases the casting roll required by +3 for the next rebuff (similar to casting the same spell multiple times) even if it is a rebuff of another spell.

Units:

Heroes:
Tyrant:  Same but with option for Rhinox mount.
Butcher:  Tooth Gnoblar allows any spell to go off as a bound spell at casting value 3 once per game. Butchers and Slaughtermasters can now be the army general.
Bruiser:  125 pts.
Hunter:  Harpoon can Move and Fire.  Harpoon range down to 24”.  Hunter cost down to 130 pts.  Harpoon is optional for 15 pts.  Hunter no longer counts as a hero choice, but a rare choice instead.  He does D2 wounds against models of US 2+ and has +1WS over what he currently has.

Core:
No more 0-1 Bulls required.
No more 1 to 1 ratio of gnoblars to Bulls.
Unlimited number of Gnoblar trappers, but they move to Special.  Also they do not bicker if within 12” of a Hunter.
Bulls: drop to 32 pts.  Gain gut plates for free (+1 AS).  Extra weapon for 3 pts, iron fist is 4 pts, and an option for two-handed weapons at 5 pts. a piece.
Standard & champion cost 15 pts.
Bellower costs 7 pts.
Ironguts: drop to 45 pts. Gain gut plates for free (+1 AS).  Get Light armor for free.  May upgrade to heavy armor for 3 pts. a piece. May upgrade to Slateheart  for 5 pts per model.  Slatehearts  are +1 WS.
A single unit of ironguts in the army may carry a magic standard of 50 pts. or less.
Gnoblars:  move to Special

Special:
Leadbelchers:  misfire does D3 strength 4 hits, range increased to 18” (Its a cannon for crying out loud).  Cost down to 45 pts. and they become Skirmishers.
Yhetees: drop to 55 pts. and become skirmishers, but lose ice weapons and cold aura. Can take extra hand weapon for +5 pts. per model.
Scraplauncher:  Cost down to 150 pts.  Move increased to 7.  Misfire chart same as other Stone Throwers.

Rare:
Maneaters drop to 70 pts and come with heavy armor.  Weapon upgrades are 5 pts. each.  They have option for iron fists in addition to the current options. Can add a gut plate for +1 AS at 5 pts. per model.
Gorgers become Special
Giant can be either Slave Giant or real Giant for higher pts. cost.
Rhinox Riders officially added.

Sorry, I don't like it.
I have the feeling, that you looked at items, you don't use and dropped them and just made the army better.
This army will be too overpowered if you look at other "New" armies.
We're talking about an army, that is a great tool in the hands of an artist. ( See Chesney's results on GT's and the recent 8th place on the UKGT)

With or without special characters you'd make this army from a tactical challenging army to a no-brainer.

Ow and it's called an armybook, codex is a 40k thing.

Of course I dropped things I didn't like! 

And of course I'd like to make the army better.  I don't like the army as it is.  I like the models, but the rules I could do without.  But take this list as sort of a laundry list with a 'kitchen sink' approach to throwing in all the possibilities.  I'm not saying all of them would or should be in the final version.  But the army as it is seems contrived with too many annoying hindrances, like the High Elf book from 6th edition as I mentioned.  And army creation options are too limited.  Giving players more options will not reduce creativity, but enhance it. 

I'm also not one of those 'old school' type of players who think that GW game rules are sacrosanct.  Frankly the 7th edition 'revision' I felt was a joke.  They barely changed anything.  The game itself needs a major overhaul in my view, though I know not everyone is of the same opinion.

Sorry, you didn't like the changes.  Don't worry though, they are just my ideas and I'm sure none of them will ever make it into the actual game.  They are just things that I think would make the game better and for me anyway, more fun.  It is, after all, just a game.  I used to play Axis & Allies all the time in high school and after playing it a zillion times we started writing in new unit types and new scenarios and made all kinds of new rules for it.  It was really fun.  I've done that with other games I play as well.  Sometimes you try something and it doesn't work and I don't want to be too hard on GW since it is hard to come up with rules that are both fair and fun.  But as an ogre player, I am really not very satisfied with the status quo and wish the company would go 'back to the drawing board' on not just the ogre list, but the entire ruleset.

ummm... you broke the army. The stuff you added is way, way overpowered. The knuckleshards are just crazy... a 35 point bound spell bolt thrower that adds power to the next spell? try 75 points (at least) and drop either that or bangstick, bacause no army list should have 2 bound magic missiles.

I was actually hoping for new things from this... the problem I have with the current army is that we only have 4 core choices, 3 special choices, only one lord (at 2k without special characters) and our 3rd hero stinks (hunter).

We don't really need to change what we have (except the hunter and maybe the bulls), but we need to add options for our troops and perhaps a gnoblar hero or a yhetee hero... like a cheiftain or something.

Sterling, I wish I could come up with some new unit ideas.  I think you are right in that we are lacking in variety in that area.  And especially the hero situation is very limiting.  I'm sorry but I don't have any ideas along those lines.  Don't you think officially adding Rhinox riders will at least help (though they are technically not new)?

Do you really think the Knuckleshards is that powerful?  I mean its going to do on average what 2-3 wounds?  And its only bound 4 so its easy to dispel.  Adding +3 to a casting roll might be a little too good though.   And maybe it would be too easy to kill knights with it, so I edited it to drop the 'no armor save' and lowered the strength and also added a negative side-effect.  Maybe it is more balanced now.  With the Ogre lack of shooting, I think it gives the army more options. 

This is why I posted these ideas here because I tend to add in lots of ideas that sound really cool, but find that upon further reflection and feedback that it was too much and that things need to be paired down.  I think of it a bit like creative writing.  I just scribble down all of my thoughts and then go back later and do the editing.   So thanks for the feedback.

would like to see the tyrant become stronger ( tho the game balance issue needs to be raised)
is the Tenderiser gone?--didn't see it & say it aint so!

Yhetees: drop to 55 pts. and become skirmishers, but lose ice weapons and cold aura. Can take extra hand weapon for +5 pts. per model.
Scraplauncher:  Cost down to 150 pts.  Move increased to 7.  Misfire chart same as other Stone Throwers.

leave the scrappy the same (tho a new model would always be welcome!)
yhetees : perhaps give the option to give them the ice weapons for (+ X )pts

Gnoblars:  move to Special

that seems like a waste of a special choice - tho i do like the loss of the 1:1 ratio

SPECIAL CHARACTERS: would like to see more beyond Greasus and Skrag - one based "maneater ninja" fig perhaps (love that gnoblar ninja)
OVERALL: a good start but seems a bit bearded cheese-points cost-(and the only way we would get that is if we let Gav Thorpe write the army book )

This list is so wrong, it's not worth me going through each item and explaining why.

It's just broken.

Too many bad changes.

Maybe if the bull-crusher droped to 15pt and got a cathayenlongsword opt, it would make them more atractive.
And they should def. make bull charge limitless.