butcherless vs lizardmen

butcherless list, 1st atempt at one going against lizardmen, is that suicide?

tyrant, greatskull, necklace, HA, XHW, luck gnob 276
bruiser, BSB, runemaw, lookout gnob, HA 184
hunter, greyback pelt, theifstone 195
3 bulls XHW bel 127
3 bulls XHW bel 127
3 IGs bel 154
3 IGs bel 154
4 IGs standard 212
4 IGs standard 212
21 fighters 42
21 fighters 42
8 trappers 48
8 trappers 48
3 MEs, HA, GW, 2 CLS 270

thats 2091, suggestions?

I like it a lot, really.
nothing to add.

lizards are very hard to go against and watch out for all those poison skinks... and remember: kroxies charge over the skinks, so be carefull.

cheers

The list looks decent enough, no real wasted points or anything.. 2091 is an odd point total, are you trying to trim down to 2k, or something?

The only quick suggestions I could think of would be to move the thiefstone to your tyrant, and to buy more of them. The tyrant can join one of your other units and extend the thiefstone protection to that unit as well as himself, and the bruiser can join a unit and lend the protection of the rune maw. Your hunter can only protect himself with thiefstones.

If you buy a 2nd or 3rd thiefstone, you might get lucky and be able to dispell one thing with your 2 thiefstone dice, and dispel something else with your 2 army generated dispel dice.

Personally I'm really not impressed with the hunter in any way, and i'd probably get another bruiser with a siegebreaker or something before going for a hunter. Or simply drop him entirely for more ironguts. You're going to lose a lot of ogres to magic, fielding more fodder might work better than fielding a character like a hunter who will just get eaten badly by Eranon's (sp) thunderbolt or some other such spell.

And it always makes me sad to see a Tyrant without his Tenderiser. If you're buying him an XHW, i'd probably spend the single point to bump it up to an ironfist and give him the option of having a 3+ armor save. But I'd much rather see him with a Tenderiser

Gorgers would really really help you out by being able to magehunt skink priests or lone Slaan.

Edit: Oh yeah, and I'd have to say overall the idea of going after lizardmen armies with no butchers is unsettling at best. I wouldn't do it myself, but best of luck to you.

thanks, yeah i'm aiming for 2k

You can drop 1 unit of gnoblar fighters. 1 is enough as a throw-away deployment and to hold table quarters.

No time to wait in that battle time to be bold.

thats still 49 pts over and i dont want to drop 2 units. should i change the hunter for another bruiser?

minus one hunter
minus one unit of trappers
add 2 gorgers

that would be off the top of my head, if not gorgers then another unit of IG's instead.  I dont think another bruiser is what you need, i think its speed or numbers so you can make it to the more troublesome units.  Gorgers can sneak in from the edges to gank the mages, and IGs are just more good solid bodies.

I've gone butcherless against lizzies before, at 3000 points, and not regretted the lack of dispel dice - I didn't even take any anti-magical items!!

If I was doing it again, I'd go with

tyrant, bruiser BSB and 2 hunters - mainly to get the 3 units of trappers, they work well at stopping skinks scouting you out and also at acting as a screen against some of their shots.

I'd then go with a unit of yhetees to get through terrain - and give it a greyback for the extra attack, take the minumum unit of bulls, have a pair of gorgers and spend everything left on units of ironguts.

something like this:

1   Tyrant
   heavy armour
   luck gnoblar
   wyrdstone necklace
   longstrider
   tenderiser
   
1   Hunter
2   sabretusks
   longstrider
   
1   Hunter
2   sabretusks
   longstrider
   
1   Bruiser
   BSB
   warbanner
   
3   Bulls
   light armour
   ironfists
   bellower
   
3   Ironguts
   bellower
   
3   Ironguts
   bellower
   
3   Ironguts
   bellower
   
8   Trappers
   
8   Trappers
   
8   Trappers
   
3   Yhetees
   
1   Gorger
   
1   Gorger


the trappers, gorgers, hutners and sabretusks can all be charged with mage-hunting while the main units keep things busy.

this is very much a character-go-solo build.

I like Wildcard's advice about getting lots of trappers and some yhetees.  I think this will give you a better manoueverability factor.  That's what I went for the last time I played lizzies and I slaughtered them.

Thanks,
JC

ok that seems good.

so that or my butchery list:

tyrant, heavy armour, CLS, greatskull, wyrdstone necklace, mawseeker, luck gnobbo 293
butcher 1, siegebreaker, fistful of laurels, tooth gnob 180
butcher 2,  skullmantle dispel scroll, tooth gnob 180
butcher 3, bangstick, dispel scroll, tooth gnob 185
3 bulls, extra hand weapons, bellower 127
3 bulls, extra hand weapons, bellower 127
3 IGs, bellower 154
3 IGs, bellower 154
4 IGs, standard, rune maw 232 (tyrant here)
4 IGs, standard 212 (butcher 1 here)
21 gnoblar fighters 42
21 gnoblar fighters 42
12 trappers 72

2000 pts

8 power dice
5 dispell dice & 2 scrolls

which one would be more effective?

Against Lizzies it's either no Butchers or all the Butchers you can muster! There just isn't any point taking on a Slann with 1 Butcher. Good list!

Thanks

gorgers love the taste of slann and can catch them fairly easily - keep 2 in your list