What army should I play next?

OK, so we all love our Ogres but everyone needs a break every once in a while.  We see alot of threads pop up saying "Hey, what's your guys thoughts on _____ ?".  Well, Corai came up with the idea of starting up a thread where we would pin the outcome of debates and information up top in the first couple of threads so you have someplace to look before asking questions.  What we ask of everyone here is -

Come up with some information on an army that is not Ogre Kingdoms
Make up some write ups (short or long) on different armies in the warhammer world
Include anything you want about the armies - Fluff, Tactics, Unit Descriptions or anything else you can think of that would effect someone else's choice in an army (positive and negative view points of armies is encouraged)
Come up with anything that will generally help others choose an army (ex - pick the one you like the models of)
Have Fun!
....
Profit

Dark Elves: in my experience, very fun in a fluff style, but difficult gamewise. Be aware that Dark Elves, like Ogres, cannot beat their opponents head on: they require flank, rear or combo-charges to work effectively. The unit of choice I would say are Dark Riders: every professional player I have spoken to loves them, and I must say, 18" march/charge range cavalry is very satisfying. One of my favoured tactics is having a fully armoured DE Noble in with the Riders to add punch, and to be used as a surprise tactic: I generally just use my Dark Riders to back up my Noble.

Dogs of War!

Great transition army for an Ogre player because you can still use all your ogre troops (Any Ogre unit with the "Dogs of War" rule becomes a Special choice in a Dogs of War army). All you really need to do is put together a paymaster and a couple heroes, then a couple core units of crossbows, pikes, duelists, light or heavy cavalry. If you aren't sure what to play, but the cool Bretonian knights look like something you want to put together, grab them and glue them up and call them Heavy Cav. A box of goblin Wolf riders make nice light cavalry. Dark Elf crossbowmen make good... well, crossbows. Just about any roughly mansized model can be a duelist.  If you don't know what you wanna play and you want to play a new army without building a whole new army...

dogs of war are also good, if like me, you can't decide what to choose next model wise... anything goes! like my level 4 half vampire mage... 

lixardmen: they got everything!!! magic (the slanns), fight (the saurus) shooting (the skinks) and also alot of sacrifical and movement.
and the models are awesome and as are their rules

greetz
         ulruk headpslitter

Lizardmen because:

Slann Mage Priests

These monsters are perhaps the best magical creatures in the game. A 2nd Generation Slann has 8 Wounds and with toughness 5 and a Temple Guard bodyguard they are hard to kill in only 6 turns! They can never miscast and may take spells from different lores. These wizards truly are magical!

Oldbloods

On a Carnosaur these lizards are ferocious. Their stat line is not to be laughed at either. With Carnosaurs they will be a tough as nails for any opponent and will be hitting your enemies for four.

Scar Veterans

Did you know it is possible to have a Scar Veteran with a -1+ save? Well it's true and that wouldn't be the only advantage of this hero. Having access to a variety of Magic Items you can tool him up to fight anything.

Skink Chief

Useful for leading a skink scouting party these little reptiles are quite deadly. I'm not saying they are better than Scar Veterans but they can do some damage. Equipt with a blowpipe they can take down some characters easily.

Skink Priest

With the option of riding in a Stegadon Skink Priests can hurt your enemy bad. With the Telepathy special rule which basically means that a Slann can use the Skinks line of sight to cast a spell can be very useful on a table loaded with terrain.

Saurus Warriors

The core of most Lizardmen armies, these warriors are a hard-to-defeat block. They will hold up in combat escpicially with a character and with two attacks each they defense won't be the only thing they're good at. Equipt with spears this attack rate will increase and cold blooded means that they won't be running too easily. With the option of Sacred Spawnings, units can be tailored to the scenario.

Skink Skirmishers

Skinks may look a little weedy but in real life they are deadly. They can run circles around an enemy letting off two poisened shots every turn. Being able to scout and hide in water, these skirmishers are sure to cause some problems.

Jungle Swarms

An annoyance for your opponent these will not be running too soon either. With five wounds and leadership ten, they could be hard to kill too. On the offensive side they have five poisened attacks and will therefore have a chance of causing casualties.

Temple Guard

With the sole purpose of protecting the Slann, these warriors are quite good at their job. Cold-blooded, Stubborn and Leadership 8 are not to be sniffed at. With the halberds their strength is increased to 5.

Saurus Cavalry

Saurus on Cold Ones is a good formula. The only real downfall to them is Stupidity but with the rest of their stats that shouldn't be too much of a worry. With a 3+ save and spears on the charge they can hit the opponents line hard.

Kroxigors

My personal favourite unit in the game, these beasts will hurt everything they can. They will cush chariots with ease as they are Strength 7 (with Great Weapon) and the list of advantages goes on. Think aquatic Ironguts, but better.

Chameleon Skinks

If you thought skinks were deadly, you haven't met these guys. They have the Chameleon special rule they can sneak up to the enemy even without cover.

Terradons

Terradons main advantages are: Flyers, Hit-and-Run attack. The hit and run attack means that after the first turn of combat you may choose to pull out regardless of the result and the enemy may not pursue. With three Strength 4 attacks they aren't rubbish either.

Stegadons

There is too much to say about these apart from the fact that in brief they are game winners. If Terror, Giant Bow, Chariot, Stubborn, Toughness 6 and 5 Wounds isn't enough to convince you then you must be mad!

Salamander Hunting Packs

Against Wood Elves these will reak havoc. Using the flame template to shoot at it's enemies they are not bad at hitting. In combat, the Salamanders themselves aren't actually that bad.

Well that's the end of my convincing run. I just hope you are all brainwashed enough to buy the book and play for the Lizards!

Thanks

somebody did his homework  nice list, tough still not convinced to play lizards

Next to my Ogres I've some High-Elves standing here so I'll go into detail on them.

Spearmen
The foundation of your army, they have the fight in 3 ranks rule which makes them the ultimate charge catchers.  If you got a unit of 20 spearmen, 5x4. You get charged and maybe 5 of them die, then you still have 16 (or 15 without command) attacks back.

Sea Guard
Simply not worth the points. Notice that an archer and a spearmen have the same stats but different equipment

Archers
Here I must admit that spearmen are not the best warriors you can wish for. Luckily you can back them up with some archers to weaken your enemies. With other words another part of the foundation.

Silver Helms
Very quick, 2+ armor save, +2 strength on charge. A unit of this guys will destroy your enemies flanks.

Swordmasters
These together with White Lions make it up with the spearmen. Two-handed weapons but don't suffer from the penalty that they strike last. With other words, they carry a hand weapon and have +2S on their characteristics

White Lions
Where you can use the swordmasters against heavy armored dudes, the White Lions are better versus ranged attacks and got a slightly better armour.

Chariot
Not quiet sure what to say. Some battles they come useful, but the other I wish I had chosen something different. If you think that your spearmen can use a quick extra hand in combat, this is the way to get it. Kamikazaa style doesn't works. Just keep it as a trick on your sleeve and wait till you can charge an unit which is already engaged in combat (you can use the 2 ranged attacks meanwhile )

Shadow Warriors
They sure come handy to block line of sight and weaken your enemy a bit.

Repeater Bolt Thrower
If you think that your archers aren't enough or you need to fight against some heavy armored guys use a bolt thrower. The bolt will pierce the armor and have another try on the next armored enemy.

Mage
This are the heroes that you want. Flames of the phoenix works against every enemy I think, if your enemy doesn't dispells it you'll end up with S10 attacks You could also go for the lore of beasts and give him (yes give him, always give your mage the seer honour) the spell so he can turn hisself into a killing machine.

Commander
If you're not kind on magic then take a commander. They can fight a bit better then normal elves. But I'd rather have a ogre bull then a HE commander I think.

Tactics overview
I would like to say different, but High Elves are a bit cheesy. It is an army based on defending and that's what they do as the best. Two blocks of spearmen defending a block of archers, two bolt throwers and a mage. Helped by some swordmasters. And a mage covered by shadow warriors on the field (this works really great, have about 6-9 shadow warriors walk with your mage, they can block the line of sight for your enemy, while your mage can still cast on them). Is the way how you've to see a High Elf army. You can try to attack, but I doubt the effectiveness.
Don't be scared by this, I've noticed that they're fun to play, AND play against (if you're not TO cheesy )

P.S. Didn't had my army book here (lend it to a friend) so I'll update this list once I've my book back.

Gnoblar Horde! Gotcha Ya!

Maybe not...anywho...

Orcs and Goblins!

Tired of saying, "I'm bringing ogres...." and everyone takes out their tailored list. Tired of having the same unit in every list? Tired of not painting green on every single model? Tired of not having an army that doesn't look like an army?

Well.....O&G solves all your problems.

The varied and always fun races of the greenskin race will always keep your opponent guessing and wondering exactly what "greenskins" implies. This also allows you have goblins, orcs and everything between to jazz up your battles. There are countless combinations and its more fun than stinky elfs.


Also, throw away the small army with units of three. You can smell the fear of your enemy as the delpoyment zone is filled with your warriors! (Or maniacal killing machines...whatever suits you...)

But, what may interest you even more is that O&G is theme heaven. Sure, with ogres you can have themed lists. But you can't have.....chaos goblins...or chaos orcs....or savage orc hordes...or night goblin hordes...or a maruading wolf horde...each with their own unique symbols and styles!

You can go heavy magic, heavy combat, a mix, and even throw in some mass shooting that is S3!!!!!

You got the all powerful Waaagggghhhh!!!!  Can't get any more fun with that..... Uhhhhh.........go orcs and gobbos.....and snotlings if you please....


OH!! Squigs! How awesome are those fungus balls with teeth? Very. Who doesn't want to move those along the table and eat some....oh....elfs....up?



Really, nothing can compare to orcs and goblins. WAAAAGGGHHHHHH!!!

CHAOS!!!

pros.
these are are ULTIMATE in combat, probably the best there is, your standard warrior having WS and I 5
they can be ULTIMATE in magic too, especially tzeentch
their diversity is great, as you can go: khorne, the really combatty freak guys, a chosen warrior champion having 5 attacks...; tzeentch, the real magic guys, IMO the best magic in the game (even better than slaans) what with all their characters being mages AND having WS and I 6+; nurgle, these are the tough guys and the scary ones, they all cause fear/terror and their characters have an extra wound; slaanesh, the super fast people, their mounts have M10 and everything has ItS and their daemons strike first.
as before, all their characters ROCK in combat, and can probably take on an entire unit and come out on top.
they have cheap units, and marauders arent bad for 5 points.
you can mix hordes, beasts and daemons in one army, basically 3 in 1!!

cons.
they are VERY expensive points wise
they have no shooting bar the hellcannon (which rules S 10 stone thrower) but thats what DOW is for!

I'm going to throw in a vote for Tomb Kings here

for those that find that odd - try this on for size:

as a transitional army we:

a) still have fear casing troops
b) still have a magic phase that seems underrated and is one you still don't have to worry about power dice in
c) can still have mobility (chariots anyone??)
d) get an army you can paint fast too
e) you get another tactical challenge army, but one with a very nice theme and trick
f) USHABTI!!!  great models!!!

I'd better stop now, any more and I'll be convincing myself....

Actually you got me thinking about getting those old O&G's out of the cupboard and start them painting again ( ow no not another gnoblog... again!!!)
That would make it army number 4 at the same time by the way...

If you want to play an army and can wait for a few months: high elves.
The models are freshened up and some cool new models are introduced.
The armybook will get an update too, so it won't be the 'weakest army in the field.

Though Dark elves stay the coolest

Still won't be able to beat Dwarfs though!
Amen brother

Tomb kings sound interesting with difficult tactical challenges and sinister desert atmosphere. Chariot units sound very interesting too.

Tomb kings
Advantages
    also have similar magic
    cause fear
    one of the best heavy hitting models in the game; The Tomb Giant
    a kick a** stone thrower, Screaming Skull Catapult
    a lot of tactical choices when building an army, can go shooting heavy, with bowmen, light cavalry, chariots and sreaming skull; focus  on close combat with chariots, tomb guard and tomb giant, combine both of them
    you have access to flying troops
    and two of the best unit/models in the game, Tomb scorpion and Ushabti IMO
                Tomb scorpion: can come up anywhere on the battle field, has magic resitance 1, and 4 S5 attacks at WS 4 with killing blow and poisoned attacks, bring on the 6's
                Ushabti: causes fear, has 3 S6 attacks with WS 4, a 3 wound monster with T 4, can form up in units, its an undead Ogre lol
    Queen Khalida is super cool, allows you to take poisoned arrows and does poisoned attacks

Weaknesses
    Heavy reliance on character models
    a finesse army, everything must work together
    made even more of a challenge at low points cost
    have a weak basic troop
    can't raise any more troops than your starting number of models, like they're northern cousins
    a chalenge, much like the ogres

-Arante

Another pro for Chaos - you don't need to spend nearly as much money to get a 2000 point army.

Sorry I thought it was for any army's, wont happen again.

You guys could always start a "What 40K army should I play?" thread, and if it's good, it might just get pegged up with this one, right?

I agree with Sunsmasher!

Id go pure goblins. It was my previous army. I have only played 4 big battles with them, but despite having the weakest army in the game never lost, 1 draw, 2 solid victories and a massacre!

You have ogres the strongest rank and file, why not take the polar opposite. Be warned they take awhile to paint to a good standard. Specially 50 strong units!

Fanatics are ace mine slaughtered chaos warriors! You can take a giant, re use your slave giant in this army.

They are the most comical army and highly amusing, you cannot count on them doing what you want them to do. My 50 strong unit with shaman and big boss ran off the board in one game- ho hum!

Doom divers, very good

Oh and plastic gobbos, nearly all the models are plastic (they would have to be so you can carry them).

Id recommend them, no one hates fighting them, maybe thats why i was so successful everyone under estimates a goblin, its his 200 mates that they should be wary of!

Lastly 200 miniatures look very impressive!

Brrrrrrreeeeetrrrrioooonians! 

Simply because these guys own, lance formation just batters enermy lines, and it's really fast so you can close down your enermys and get on those flanks with ease, plus when painted correctly (and in my case that won't be archieved) they look grand, a fine display to compliment the owner.

The only thng that's holding me back from starting dwarves is the funds that would require. Something strange with bills and rent and some such bother. These guys have great personality and fluff. Well... to me anyway. I guess it depends a lot on what kind of character you have. Borrow army books. read around, then decide.

If you want to play dwarves, just buy a couple BfSP sets. It contains 30 dwarf warriors, a cannon, and two characters (all plastic!) for the real low price of $60. And if you split it with a greenskin player it's even cheaper.

If you want to play dwarves, just buy a couple BfSP sets. It contains 30 dwarf warriors, a cannon, and two characters (all plastic!) for the real low price of $60. And if you split it with a greenskin player it's even cheaper.

Or start a goblin army on the side, but that woud probably be too much (Ahumm)
Actually this is what I did: buy two sets BfSp and later an army deal

I think the bretonnians? Why because you know the weakness in some armys. So you can use it to your advanticed and win alot of battles.

I think the bretonnians? Why because you know the weakness in some armys. So you can use it to your advanticed and win alot of battles.

lt.mori, with all due respect, AFAIK, you have yet to read the bretonnian army book (or the warhammer rulebook) and as such are not fit to give advice to other members on how to field them. This thread is intended for people to get a good overview of the strengths and weaknesses of the various warhammer armies from experienced players who can offer advice. Your post contained none of the above.

Thanks
Corai

Well since it seems (or atleast rumoured) that there will be a Deamon Book comming out next year, I was think of making a Chaos Army and allways have the possibility to go full deamon...

Any thoughts on that?

We'll just have to wait and see. I have no idea what the daemon codex/army book will be like, but I hope it isn't just Daemonic Legions the army book. I'd love to see about 50 daemonic gifts, and a whole assortment of gribblies. Core spawn?

Also if you play 40k you could make an army that is fit for both systems. (its what i plan to do)
To do this you can either get a movement tray and mold circular slots for the 40k bases or play 40k with square bases (no rule against it)
You could also magnetise the bases to do this.

-Arante

I think Dwarfs, especialy if you like midget vikings who are strong and have great leadership.
Plus you have to love the cannons and the new special rules called Mad inventions(look it up on GW.com)

Well since it seems (or atleast rumoured) that there will be a Deamon Book comming out next year, I was think of making a Chaos Army and allways have the possibility to go full deamon...

Any thoughts on that?

Going chaos is always an idea, but for full daemon there has to be something extra, because if you make a daemon list right now ( Not DL) you get kicked by about every army, I guess.

Well since it seems (or atleast rumoured) that there will be a Deamon Book comming out next year, I was think of making a Chaos Army and allways have the possibility to go full deamon...

Any thoughts on that?

Going chaos is always an idea, but for full daemon there has to be something extra, because if you make a daemon list right now ( Not DL) you get kicked by about every army, I guess.

True, but I had the new Daemon Codex in mind when I thought of it... I've allways loved Chaos for the looks and the fact that you can be bad and say it's because you RP when playing your army  and with the book comming out you can have 2 armies at the price of 1 1/2.....

I would go with goblins as you can out number your opponent immensly. You also get very powerful units such as Squigs, some amazing shamans, fanatics and trolls which can back up your horde of Night Goblins/Goblins. The greatest weaknisses for gobbos is that they have extremely low leadership which can sometimes cost you the game. Also units like fanatics and squigs are really random in there movement and extremely strong which can sometimes lead to your goblins being ripped apart by there own units.


    thanks greasus409

Any ideas for Chaos Dwarves? I'm thinking shooting will be a big plus, but the slow movement (half of us big ogres movement) would be a hard to get used to trade-off. Causing fear, which is also something I think we take for granted, would be gone.

I'm probably getting kicked by Kyte by now, but I really never understood the fascination with chaos dwarves.
You have like 4 types of units and they seem less fun to play then even dwarves.

You'll probably fare better, and get more use out of them, if you use a dwarf rules with chaos dwarf models.

I'm thinking more of a centaur theme with a few dwarf allies.

So they actually would be a bit like ogres. Minus the cause fear, but with a greater move, and less attacks/wounds/US per model. Though you can get the same number of attacks with XHW's.

OK, so we all love our Ogres but everyone needs a break every once in a while.  We see alot of threads pop up saying "Hey, what's your guys thoughts on _____ ?".  Well, Corai came up with the idea of starting up a thread where we would pin the outcome of debates and information up top in the first couple of threads so you have someplace to look before asking questions.  What we ask of everyone here is -

Come up with some information on an army that is not Ogre Kingdoms
Make up some write ups (short or long) on different armies in the warhammer world
Include anything you want about the armies - Fluff, Tactics, Unit Descriptions or anything else you can think of that would effect someone else's choice in an army (positive and negative view points of armies is encouraged)
Come up with anything that will generally help others choose an army (ex - pick the one you like the models of)
Have Fun!
....
Profit

Without naming off what you should play, I think you should go for the army that whopped the hell out of you and you always lost against. I bet that army has a completely different playing style.

If I were to choose an army, I'd go for fluff and model appearence over anything else.

-J.

alright - here's a question then -which armys hould I do next??

I have my ogres
I have my tomb kings
I'm working on my eldar - and I DO NOT want another 40k force

I have the urges to do:

2000 brettonian RAF (and the models to build it)
2000 skaven (and the models to build it)
2000 empire (and most of the models to build it although a couple of purchases would be needed)
2000 BoC - morghur army (and that'd need a lot of things buying for it)

so what's next??

I'd personally go for Skaven due to the uniqueness of the army as well as funny fluff and play style
As well as good modelling capabilities.
My second choice would be the Morghur army, however as you dont have the models i would say go for the other 3 choices.

-Arante

I´d go Bretts, just for the change of pace(You have brute savages, and neutral ancient undead, why not having a good chivalrous force?)
Plus, the look awesome when painted well...But that can take ages to do...

(as an OnG player the idea of another horde, i.e. Skaven, scares the hell out of me )

alright - here's a question then -which armys hould I do next??

I have my ogres
I have my tomb kings
I'm working on my eldar - and I DO NOT want another 40k force

I have the urges to do:

2000 brettonian RAF (and the models to build it)
2000 skaven (and the models to build it)
2000 empire (and most of the models to build it although a couple of purchases would be needed)
2000 BoC - morghur army (and that'd need a lot of things buying for it)

so what's next??

Skaven.

Don't go with Brets- you already play the two other highly mobile armies that rely on the charge to win. I love the ratmen (my first GW love), but I'd rather see a Morghur army. BoC (and Morghur especially) are about as much fun as Ogres, and don't play like any of your other armies.

Skaven all the way.

You have elite armies and what Reg says already mobile armies.
Now go for the horde.
I bet you already have a great conversion and theme already in your mind right?

Skaven all the way.

You have elite armies and what Reg says already mobile armies.
Now go for the horde.
I bet you already have a great conversion and theme already in your mind right?

Mainly a clan pestilens feel to the list I think and a grey seer to lead to get some cheeky spells off

I must admit that the list I'm planning has close to 200 models in it and I'm finding that a little intimidating, but I guess I can always mix it up with painting the eldar when I get fur-fatigue and need some rat-respite

I must admit that the list I'm planning has close to 200 models in it and I'm finding that a little intimidating, but I guess I can always mix it up with painting the eldar when I get fur-fatigue and need some rat-respite

Can you get a pet gnoblar for corny puns? because that was spectacular WC.

Skaven all the way.

You have elite armies and what Reg says already mobile armies.
Now go for the horde.
I bet you already have a great conversion and theme already in your mind right?

Mainly a clan pestilens feel to the list I think and a grey seer to lead to get some cheeky spells off

I must admit that the list I'm planning has close to 200 models in it and I'm finding that a little intimidating, but I guess I can always mix it up with painting the eldar when I get fur-fatigue and need some rat-respite

Well Wildcard why don't you join us in the thread that goes on about building 500points worth of chars a month. I'm doing Skaven and that way I can feel bad when we post pics at the end of the term to show progress and you will have a way better painted army compared to mine...*sniff*....I need a shoulder to cry on....

Well Wildcard why don't you join us in the thread that goes on about building 500points worth of chars a month

Because that would mean, he has to slow down

one reason on not going to a ToFG format for my skaven is that I already have the vast majority of the models and would now rather paint in blocks of 13 models (the skaven's sacred number) than in any other way.

maybe next time when I work on the bretts

Alrighty, my thoughts on Skaven (as a rat for nearly three years)...

As a general pointer, try to avoid extra embellishment. When you have 2pt models in your army, every little extraneous champion starts to really hurt. I'm a horde advocate if you hadn't guessed. 

Lords

The Grey Seer

I think the most important thing about this guy, and the primary reason for taking him, is that he's the only model with full access to the (quite frankly) absolutely insane Skaven lore. Skitterleap I think as a spell is criminally underated as people don't seem to realise it's true purpose: yes, you can get the seer into a position to target a juicy enemy unit that's hiding somewhere out of sight, but the primary purpose for it is running away. Don't wait until the enemy has charged to do it, as soon as they move into charge range, the seer does what rats do best and jumps back as far as possible while remaining in spell range. Never let him get engaged in combat. He's a T4 unarmoured clanrat that will net the enemy 300VPs+, and he tends to fall over to even a stiff breeze. Holding your ground and fighting like a man is for manthings.

I won't go into huge detail on the spell list, but here's a basic rundown.

Warp Lightning: You all know it. It's an amazingly powerful magical missile that has a small(ish) chance of hurting the caster. As a result, I tend not to cast it with my seer and leave it instead to the warlocks as any wounds whatsoever taken off my big expensive seer cause me to start hyperventilating. It is, for its casting value, one of the best magic missiles in the game. A warlock with full kit and a storm daemon can throw out 3D6 S5 autohits at 24". Ouch.

Vermintide: Looks nasty doesn't it? I've casted it many times, and have killed the following...

-3 Night Goblins
-1 Tomb Guard

It is of note that the tomb guard was promptly brought back to life. Looks great on paper, but unless you're playing against an army with a lot of skinks, trade it off for skitterleap.

Pestilence Breath: Hah! Useless. It needs to be in spitting distance to actually work, and even then it's not great unless you're using it on heavy cavalry. And if you managed to get that close to his cavalry, then something very odd is going on...

Death Frenzy: Now we're getting somewhere. I seem to remember one of the chaos lores having a spell that does the same thing to an enemy unit, and we have this applying only to friendlies. Terrible! But remember, we are the skaven, and this spell is a lot more useful than it sounds.

Best example: 20 slaves with spears. Cast death frenzy twice. 30 WS2 S3 Attacks. Or even better, cast it on a unit of plague monks! If you're running them with a frontage of 6 (as I do) then you get 25 WS3 S3 attacks from the front rank only! And you only need to cast the spell once!

Plague: I've had mixed success with this one really. Either it works or it doesn't, and it all comes down to pure luck. But when it works, it works. It should seem obvious, but the units you should target are...

a) larger
b) heavily armoured
c) in close proximity to other similar units
d) low toughness

What I do is scan targets possibly in range, see which of them suits the most of the above criteria, and then pray to the horned rat that I roll well.

Warlord

As much as I love my seer, I love this guy more. He costs about 1/3 as many points, it harder to kill, and has that all important Ld7 that (with strength in numbers) makes the surrounding units LD10. Throw in a battle standard nearby and you have something very nasty.

Sneaky trick: Give him a weeping blade. Noone expects Skaven characters to be able to fight back and he mostly gets ignored. Then (as has happened), he helps to kill two stegadons/ogre tyrants/dragons. I tend to give mine the twisted crown, weeping blade, heavy armour and a shield. Expensive, but a really nasty surprise.

Heroes

Master Moulder: Underused, I think. In larger games (3000pts+), I try to include one with Skavenbrew and a whip. Stick him in a unit  giant rats and send them on a flanking mission. The unit tends to get ignored when there's bigger nastier units present, and (in the flank), can break most standard core units in the first round of combat.

Warlock Engineer: A grey seer that can only cast warp lightning. Did I mention he costs less than 50pts? Yeah, if you want to tool him up a bit then he starts to get expensive fast, but you can have a scroll caddy capable of casting warp lightning for 100pts. Nice eh?

Plague Priest: If you're using plague monks then this guy is an invaluable asset to the unit. Give him a flail and he'll compensate for the monk's low strength if they've got themselves into an unfavourable situation. Like the monks, enemies will use frenzy against you, and with Skaven's high M this becomes especially problematic. Watch out for it.

Cheiftain: I find they're only really useful as BSBs, although I always have a BSB, regardless of points value. The number of times it has swung the balance of a game I've lost count of. Seriously, always have a BSB.

Assassin: Best function: warpstone stars, deployed as a scout, running around making a nuiscance of himself. For bonus points, if you ever encounter lord kroak, hide an assassin with a brass orb in a unit, leap out and biff it. As someone who has done this, I can say that it is absolutely hilarious, regardless of whether it actually works.

Core

Clanrats: It's not often that the basic core unit in an army is actually the best unit, but with Skaven I find this is very much the case. Sure, on paper clanrats appear to suck mightily, but I use 125 in a 2000pt army, along with 80 slaves. Enemies can find that a little difficult to deal with.
Ideal configuration I find is 25 with a standard bearer and a musician. That means that the unit can sustain decent casualties while still being cheap and effective.
The most basic tactic, and the cornerstone of the skaven horde is the rat trap: two units of skaven ranked troops (clannies or slaves), side by side. The enemy charges one, and it flees. The second unit then flanks. Simple enough? In practice it's a bit harder, but it's very effective. As a note, don't try it on harcore CC units like chosen or you'll get eaten alive. But for ranked units up to about saurus, it works wonders.

---Ratling Guns: In the 7th edition these guys are a lot harder to use than before, but they were previously hideously overpowered and are now merely very good. Use them to soften up enemy hard hitters before you try and move in. I try to have less than 50% of my clanrat units with a weapon team as it takes up too many points otherwise.

---Warpfire thrower: A unit that has been overshadowed by the ratling gun, and it actually really, really good. S5 Armour piercing D3 wounds template? Yes please! Very difficult to aim, but once you get the hang of it these things are nigh unstoppable.

Slaves: Slaves are insignificant, meaning that they're very much like gnoblars in regard to psychology. What does this mean? It means that you can afford to flee charges with them without the risk of provoking mass panic in your veyr vulnerable army. Also, try to make them flee towards the general. It doesn't really matter if they don't rally (oooooooh, 40VP to the enemy, you may as well surrender now  ), but it means that they can be used again. Unless you're doing something sneaky like death frenzying them or trying to redirect a charge, then they really shouldn't be in combat. General rule is: if the enemy charges you, then flee.

Giant rats: A unit I would use much, much more, if they weren't so goddam expensive to buy. The highest speed in the Skaven army book, and they actually cost the same as clanrats in the end (a little cheaper if you factor in the slavemaster dude). Excellent flankers and objective grabbers.

Rat Swarms: In the 7th edition I find that they're too expensive. If they get made a bit cheaper then I'll be a very happy rat (I have 5 from the 6th edition).

Night Runners: Until you've seen them in action, you have absolutely no idea how much havoc five of these guys with additional hand weapons can wreak. Cheap and nasty, with high speed and lots of attacks, these guys are excellent for throwing against enemy skirmishers, warmachines and lone characters. I always use at least 20.

Poisoned Wind Globadiers: I find the best use for these guys is in units of 2, and messing with enemy deployment. If you spent 100pts of globadiers to deploy first, the enemy has to deploy five (probably larger than 20pt) units, and you've lost nothing. They can then run in and march block and generally get in the way.

Special

Gutter Runners: The general concensus on these guys is that they're pretty useless unless they're tunneling, but I've had some pretty poor experiences with tunnelers too. Once they killed an enemy vampire count/general, but apart from that they invariably end up miles away from where you want them and two turns too late. Like gorgers, but hideously expensive and not nearly as reliable.

Jezzails: Oddly enough, this is the one unit in the army I've never used. They look like great cavalry busters, but I find 20pts a model is far too expensive for such a vulnerable unit.

Plague Monks: Here's a tip that's come from experience; the banner of burning hatred looks great, but is far mroe trouble than its worth. Give these guys full command, additional hand weapons and an unbranner. They used to be a regular fixture in my army, but then I realised that they're very, very expensive and liable to led around due to frenzy.

Still, they're an excellent line breaker unit if they don't get led astray, and they allow you to take censer bearers, which are quite possibly the best unit in the entire army.

Rat Ogres: S5, 50pt ogres that are stupid if their squishly T3 W1 guardian gets killed. Ugh. I use the models as centrepieces for clanrat units (and they look great), but these guys are pretty much useless.

Rare

Warp Lightning Cannon: This unit is feared a lot more than it should be, but it can still make a hell of a mess if used properly. Sneaky it up a flank behind some terrain and then take a shot down the whole enemy army. Priceless when it works. Also, people seem to think that this guy is the absolute end of the world and expend a lot of time and energy trying to kill him, so you can play that to your advantage.

Plague Censer Bearers: These guys aren't too flash on paper, but here's a list of things they've single handedly taken down...

-20 Longbeards with full command and a thane
-18-24 (? can't remember) Saurus with attached 3rd generation slann.
-Tyrion (6th edition)
-4 Ushabti
-6 Ironguts with standard, musician.

And that's just the noteworthy stuff. The hardest CC hitters in the entire army, with proper support these guys will break through anything. On the second turn of combat they start to falter (they lose flails and hatred), but on the first, things die. If you have plague monks, then have censer bearers. Always. I find 7 is the perfect number. Any more and when they reach combat they'll be hurting themselves more than the enemy.


Wow. That was longer than I intended it. I hope this helps.

Poly
Out

that really helps!   thanks Poly!

that really helps!   thanks Poly!

Give Polly a cracker....

No seriously thanks for the rundown of the available units. It will help greatly to know what to buy to expand my SAD army (once ToXG is over) and no I'm not intending on playing a SAD army for fun or for more then 2 games...

Use the following configuration for your heroes...

Grey Seer
Eye of the Horned Rat, Staff of Sorcery, Warpstone Charm
Screaming Bell

Warlock Engineer
All kit minus the pistol
Storm Daemon
Dispell Scroll

Warlock Engineer
All kit minus pistol
2 dispell scrolls

Warlock Engineer
All kit minus pistol
Staff of Sorcery

That's 13 power dice+one PL4 bound spell, 7 dispel dice (+MR2 for the bell's unit), +1 to dispel and three scrolls. Nothing short of teclis and a mage council are going to be able to stop that. If you want to rule the magic phase and annoy the hell out of an opponent, then this is the thing to do. I've done it once only, against the guy who used a high elf mage council with 10 ironguts for each rare choice. He also filled the board with trees and hills, and asked if that was okay. I agreed, then he announced that all his mages had seer and were using the lore of life (6th edition). After facing that army, I rejigged my own to something even cheesier. I'll see if I can dig up the list for you if you want something truly horrifically despicably cheesy.

Remember though: Such lists are only for use if your opponent takes a similarly cheesy list also. Polymphus inc. does not endorse the use of cheesy lists to dominate new players or any such activities. That said, against another horrifically cheesy army (and a player who spent every waking minute trying to bend the rules as far as possible *strangles HE player*), it's a rather nice feeling...

I'll stop now.

*Throws smokebomb, which fizzles disappointingly. Looks sad, and then slumps off.*

Poly
Out

Its also illigal since you have 2 Staffs of Sorcery, only one is allowed.

Only items that can be taken multiple times by different character is the Power Stone and Dispellscroll.

Poly go digg up that list, I want it...

I have the same opponent as you it seems *stupid HE players discovering how powerfull Teclis is, ASF and OP magic*

Greetz Aza

My ogres have had a lot of trouble with HE that makes use of Mage mounted on a dragon and big units of Spearman and Swordmasters. My second army i made was Slaanesh both daemon and mortal and it pretty much wiped the floor wit HE, and Skrye Clan Skaven

I say go with an army completely opposite from Ogres, such as Dwarfs, Empire, or my expertise, Skaven! An army with lots of models, lots of shooting, less movement, more magic, or anything else you don't get to play with in your Ogre army. It also might help to get an army that might take some of your Ogres as Dogs of War, like Empire, Orcs, or Chaos.

Well i do chaos and im strarting Orgres as my second army so im kinda intot the small expensive armies and brute strength and if u into the same as me then these 2 are definetlley the path to choose unless ure into magic otherwise high elves or lizardmen are the way to go

Its also illigal since you have 2 Staffs of Sorcery, only one is allowed.

Only items that can be taken multiple times by different character is the Power Stone and Dispellscroll.

The convienient, as it isn't the list I use. Musn't've been concentrating. I give either the see or a warlock the staff, but not both.  The seer has the twisted crown of the horned rat instead. v. useful, as he'll be attracting a lot of fire.

Also, I'm kinda in a hurry now, but I'll find that list and post it up asap...

well their is a way to get +2 to dispell in an army.
Staff od sorc and the Truthsayer.

Rather than critiquing armylists, this thread is for people looking for another army to play (and I know that's where the skaven list came from, but it's starting to derail).

any gunna collect the new daemon army? im leaning towards a tzeentch or nurgle army

Go for Vampire Counts. I've just got the Spearhead book and have been writing about them on my blogsite (see my signature if you're interested http://battlereporter.blogspot.com).

They're magically very powerful (although not a match for High Elves) and the army is very well balanced. I think their primary weakness is that:-

1) They rely heavily on their characters and
2) they are not very maneuverable (due to no march move)

I like them - a lot !

yea my bro is building a blood knight, and black knight army type list.

Well For me I think you should try the Bretonnians. They are more affective against some types of unites then other armies. I will go throuh some of the different types of unites, and give some detail.

Men-at-arms: Good for setting an counter-attack up or useing them as bate for the enemy

Bowman: Good for Stoping Charges on your units/army

Knights of the Realm: Good for useing them in the lance formation. You could use them to charge across the battle feild.

im kinda stuck on deciding wat army i want to play next, I like high elves and was thinking about a phenonox guard buld wit a dragon mage, or i was considering a tomb king army with Khalida and lots of archers and hard hittin chariots, or i was just gunna wait for Dark elves release? any thoughts?

Wait for the Delfs before deciding. If one of your choices is an army that is coming out soon, it'd probably annoy you a least a bit if the Delf army book/new models turned out to be completely Earth-shatteringly awesome and you were stuck with some now lame Tomb Kings.

ok so this post is not really for me but for a friend of mine, who was thinking of transferring from 40k to fantasy (a real mans game). he said that he does not want any other race other than humans. i told him about empire and bretonnians and he said that they both sound cool. he said that if he does bretonnians that he'll just paint them one color (lame), but if he plays empire he has no clue which way to go. CC, Gunline, Cav., or blanced. so i ask you guys which one do you think is the better choice?

( if it helps he is already used to the large amount of shooting with his IG army and the amount of casulaties in CC)

peace.

The one color knights is lame, unless you meet one uniform pattern then its ok. My bro's brettonians are from Kingdom of Heaven and they look awesome.
I would have him try empire, especiaily if he's IG and the new plastic steam tanks, have him play one or two and play a nice empire army, with some knightly orders, some wizards and some tanks.

i would suggest counts as they can spawn units which is fun and they have very tuff heros

Well, I'm back posting in this thread again...

Basically at the moment despite numerous projects for 40k and PP, for fantasy i only have the one force, Dwarfs... And while they're fine i've really been struggling against the Dark Elf, Lizzard, Wood Elf and Daemon armies that i've been playing recently and more of an issue, lack of variety... and so rather than get rid of them or anything else i've decided to box them up and start a new fantasy project (as i didn't last time i posted in this thread, not properly anyway)

So... the only armies not on the cards for me are Empire, Tomb Kings, Skaven, Beasts and High Elves... everything else i'd consider viable as i don't mind a challenge game wise

Main contenders for me are the interchangeable 40k/fantasy Daemon army i mentioned a while back, lizards, woodies or returning to Ogres... but I'll happily listen to any suggestions, mostly i'm after variety and some good modelling opportunities so feel free to suggest themes as much as armies

Stonedog, I'd suggest dark elves then:
- strong magic
- good shooting
- pretty good combat
- fine durability

I'll elaborate:
The no limit to power dice makes even a level 2 sorceress able to cast with 5 dice
Alot of units can have shooting without it being their primary function or the other way around.
The combat is pretty good because of hatred and good weapon skill, some even have S5 and 6 attacks
The durability of units in combat is excellent (for an elf) but a lot of units are/ can be stubborn, immune to psychology or both.
The cauldron of blood is an accelerator for your army with the ability to give a unit killing blow (for lower strength attacks), extra attack (for higher strength units) or a ward save (for those units, you want to have around longer)

And the cauldron can be a beautiful center piece in your army

Well, it looks like this is going to quickly come down to 3 (local dark elf player is trying to convince me they're not the option )

Vampires - Seen alot on the stronghold at the moment but i love the minis & theme, from looking at them before i've got good ideas on where i'll take the army and there's multiple themes to run with
Dark Elves - as you just pointed out Lexy, they're by far the most flexible on the field, i love my offensive magic so that's a massive plus point, and although we have a local DE player it'd be easy enough to come up differently
Daemons - Power and getting a crossover army to use in 40k aswell... but the downside would be if i got a list that i was happy with, there's a good chance it might not prove much of a challenge, no-one (well, me and some others) likes an army that's nigh unbeatable

the challenge with daemons is trying to build a list that is "fair" to an opponent - and even then I think you'll find them too reliable to interest you for long.

DE are a flexible and nasty force and I'm sure you could do something interesting with them.  I'll be waiting at least another year before doing one myself though, hoping that they get nudged down the power pyramid a little...

VC are in that position already - can be nasty, but can be fun as well.  As you say, themes-a-go-go here and I'm sure you could make a great job of them.  Does mean painting a horde of zombies though.....even if you don't plan on any for the main list

I think I'd go with DE.

Oddl enough WC, that vote of confidence makes it more tempting to do VC... still, i'm not buying anything for either for a couple of weeks yet so still going to chew it over plenty

Oddl enough WC, that vote of confidence makes it more tempting to do VC... still, i'm not buying anything for either for a couple of weeks yet so still going to chew it over plenty

VC are my next army too - as stated I'm waiting for the DE to drop a rung or two

Why not wait and see the new Skaven book in a couple of months?

I was thinking of starting a WoC army, what do you guys advise me buying to start off?
is the WoC battallion any good?

I was thinking of starting a WoC army, what do you guys advise me buying to start off?
is the WoC battallion any good?

depends on what kinds list you wanna run? if your gunna play a mix of maruaders and warriors  then yeah it is good. if your gunna run an all cavalry list then it isnt worth it.

hey everyone, its my turn to ask.

so far my armies i have are Ogres ( my pride and joy  ) goblins and dwarves.

i've tryed to use empire ( borrowed from a friend) and i didnt like it, i for some reason dont want to do a Elf army. ( my friends say its coz i to much like a goblin and think they smell... i think they are right) warriors of chaos.. i dunno i not a huge fan.. so i sorta left with skaven, daemons, beasts, bretonians tomb kings and vampire counts, though i not particullay fond of vampires at moment.

i've basically got free rain as i got a shooty army, dwarves, a magic heavy weird army.. no questions as to who.. and my ogres. so.. suggestions on a post card please..

Not fond of vampires? then do them.
Skaven are the next army to be released, so expect new models, new rules.(Q4 2009)
Daemons: everybody has one, I'd say no, unless you really have a very good idea.
Beasts: will be the army after skaven to be released so see skaven but later(Q1 2010).
Brets: if you like horses, knights and bright colours, this is your thing.
tomb kings: they are play wise a little low on the ladder and you'll have to think of a good paint theme to make it fun to paint.

Hard  to tell you what to do, but I hope I helped a bit.

yeah ya have helped lexy thanks..

i decided that tomb kings will probably be my next army.. though i may just do a complete u turn and not worry about another army..

could some one post a detailed desciption of lizzies, look, tactics, models and new things coming out.

Im just putting this out there because I dont think anyone else has but have you given any thought towards Beasts of Chaos? I mean, you get some of the coolest looking models, some of the hardest hitters in the game *coughshaggothcough* , and lets face it: theres a buhjillion ways to paint um! Plus they look SWEET on the table! And you've gotta love the ambush special rule (in my mind: ambush = insta-flank ). Plus if you want, you can pair them with daemons OR warriors so its a 2-for (or a 3-for!).

But on the cons, CHOICES CHOICES CHOICES! Those 3 (daemons beats and warriors) its like having to pick from 3 army books to get your army. Plus, unless you stick to one simple theme it could take awhile to paint.

  Just outputting my input

A couple things about Beast of Chaos;
1. Before 7th edition, they were a fine army. Neither weak nor strong, and they really benefited from being able to pick from the Mortals book (mostly because the BoC items suck, for the most part).
2. After Daemons and Mortals split in 7th ed, Beasts players no longer had access to the goodies (that they needed) from the Hordes of Chaos book, and the 7th ed rules changes really hurt the basic Beast of Chaos unit (the beast herd).
3. The Shaggoth, while being a heavy hitter, has a pretty poor selection of magic items to choose from, and for all its power it is not equally tough, and most importantly, it can not fly.
4. Beasts really aren't a strong army any more.

Having said that, I think the Beast of Chaos army has some of the best minis, great fluff, and is still very fun to play,

I'd like to add, beasts are rumoured to being redone after Skaven, sometime early next year. There are also conflicting rumours whether or not ogres and dragon ogres will remain in the army list. Just something to consider.

i need my second army to be able to beat WoC DE and Lizardmen XD thats all i ever really fight, and an occasional skaven...

Hmmm... That's tricky, what with those opponents all being quite different, therefore needing to cater to a variety of characteristics...

But, I still have the answer... Daemons!  Erm, no, on a more serious note... I'd actually consider WoC, HE or Vamps All three of which would be relatively competitive against those opponents, but not necessarily a "guaranteed" win...

JJ

i am actually thinking of starting Vamps... but i have the strange idea they are expensive without equal XD

Depends on what type of army you are going for... If you are going for a zombie meat-wall horde, yes, very expensive... If you are going for a Blood/Black Knight army, with GG and Varghulf support, not too expensive...

JJ

Could you maybe help me out with that? (a list so i can check some price tags) I'm very new to Fantasy (only just started with OK about 3 months ago or something) so i have little experience with other armies.

What sorta list would you be looking for? A lot of raising, magic-heavy, combat-heavy, etc...?

I can help you build a list, just tell me what type of list, and what points size, and I'll see what I can do

JJ

raising seems fun... blood knights look awesome... erm... i was thinking heavy hitting list.. blood knights, varghulfs and the like

What points cost? I'll see what I can do...

JJ

500, 1000, 2000, i need all 3 really, since i play in all 3, just look towards units that can be used in multiple lists i guess

I'll see what I can do

JJ

Just one point on the BoC herds which the FaQ has cleared up. They still rank up 4 wide which is nice for flanking and negating ranks.

does anyone know a good vampire counts forum ? 

Carpe Noctum

JJ

Dwarfs: Dwarfs are an excellent army for anyone to start.  They are not to strong, but not as weak as the other armies that have yet to be updated yet.  Dwarfs have many strengths and only a handful of weaknesses. 

  Strengths.  Some of the strongest and most versatile artillery in the game.  Crews are stubborn until warmachine is destroyed and they can fight off some small artillery threats.  To add a bonus these warmachines can be kitted out with runes to maximize efficiency and special choices can have an engineer to add firing potential and combat potential. 
  Most of there units are heavy hitting defenders and line-holders when supported right.  Any regiment with an oathstone thane or lord in it can last by itself for a few turns unsupported.  (Ironbreakers more than others)  Some good fighty characters that can hold there own.  You can tool a lord up to fight off a bloodthirster and some of the nastier characters. 
  Heavy magic defense.  Throw in two runesmiths and an Anvil Runelord not to much magic will get past you.  Excellent monster-killers as well.  Organ guns, flame-cannons, and slayers are the bane of dragons and other monsters.  The majority of troops can be built with plastic. 
  Many different themes for dwarf players.  You can create your own hold, choose from one of the larger holds, and many more options.  You can also include ogres since they had an alliance during the Nemesis Crown War.

Weakness: Not assaulters, more than often you will be taking charges and hoping to stand.  No cavalry or magic.  Although the Anvil of Doom and Gyrocopter can hold up for this.  The main annoyance for most people is lack of special characters.  Daemons, dark elves, high elves, and all these newer armies have tons of special characters that are heavy hitters. 
  Dwarfs only have three.  2 of which are lords and only fielded in larger games. 

 But, all in all dwarfs is an excellent army.

I am a big fan of Greenskins as well.  I dont like them because they are strong, or good.  I like them for only 1 reason, because they are awesomely COOL!
They are so self-destructive that you cant help but enjoy every game you play with them.

The coolest thing in all of warhammer must be a lonesome goblin hero on foot with madd's maps and brimstone baubles.  Deploys like a scout and when he dies (yes 'when', not 'if'  ) he acts like a suicide bomber too everything close to him.

P.S. I must be the person who fails the most animosity tests in the world...

i was pretty psyched about the possibility of an Ogre Kingdoms update this may -- but now I'm bummed that we're going to have to wait until 2011.

Since my Ogres are all painted (aside from my Ninja Maneater), I'm thinking about a new army.

I want the army to be tactically challenging, though not impossible to win with. I want to be able to play in every phase of the game, rearrange my army between battles to be balanced, shooty, combat-y, calvary-y, magic-y, etc.

I've got Ogres. I started with Greenskins. Now, if I put another several hundred dollars into an army (not to mention blood, sweat and tears) I want it to potentially be the last army I ever NEED. (Not want. That would be impossible. Ha ha.)

So I'm thinking Empire. It is well balanced, with a potential to do a little of everything or a lot of one thing, depending on which list I will build.

Other thoughts are:

Beastmen (I like them. Easy to paint. No armor. Cool monsters. Magic? Meh.)
Dark Elves (have found them cheesy to play against - but can play in every phase)
Lizardmen (my son plays them and they are great but don't have much shooting)
Warriors of Chaos (very combat-y. very little shooting. disgusting magic)

Empire benefit from a huuuuuge range of plastics (I could easily have an all-plastic army) and from the fact that they are sooo central to Warhammer lore that I can't ever see them getting neglected -- whether by a rushed army book or a long wait between books.

The flip side? So many minis to paint. But I can probably get around that with spray gun and dipping.

Thoughts?

After Ogre's I'm really not sure what army to do, anyone got any reccomendations for a cheap (money wise not point) army with intresting fluff.

Cheers!

Warriors of Chaos are pretty inexpensive point-for-point. The WoC battalion box is an easy 1,000 points:

Chaos Sorcerer of Slaanesh, Lvl 2, Spell Familiar
Exalted Hero of Slaanesh, BSB
10 Chaos Warriors, Shields, Full Command, Blasted Standard
2x5 Chaos Warhounds
10 Chaos Marauders of Slaanesh, Flails
10 Chaos Marauders of Slaanesh, Flails
5 Chaos Knights of Slaanesh, Full Command, Lances, War Banner

1,000 pts.

Convert two of the Warriors into a Sorcerer and an Exalted. Next them with your Warrior unit.

I made this while I was thinking of starting Warriors. My group of friends that focus on friendly gaming liked it.

Your next purchase after that would have to be Marauder Horsemen (quite possibly the best Fast Cavalry in the game). For $22 more you can ditch the command on the knights and squeeze the horsemen into 1,000 points.

Of course you can mix and match Marks, Characters, Units, etc.

$112 for a nice little starter army isn't bad.

I say give it a go!

This is a great suggestion from reynor. With a bit more fleshing out, his post would be pet-gnoblar-worthy

JJ

Been toying around with dwarfs. Granted, it's because I somehow amassed a 2250 list of Skull pass sets...

At any rate, they are tons of fun to play and are a completely different style of play. You can do lots of different things with lists as well. For example: a skirmishing Dwarf list with Josef Bugman at the helm. Sounds crazy. It's competitive and fun!

Hawkeye yes there are many things you can do with dwarfs, but a skirmishing list is not one of them as there are no skirmishers in the dwarf book.

Bugman allows you to take two extra units of longbeard rangers. They have the scout special rule. Not exactly skirmishers, but can be used in much the same way.

True, I personally find the needed unit of longbeard rangers Bugman's weakness because I am not a big ranger fan and I think this unit is just way too expensive.

I've been borrowing a friend's Dwarfs and I like them. It's such a warm fuzzy feeling to have armor and static combat resolution. Winning combat is fun.

It's taking a little while to get used to going slow. But not dying in droves is nice...

Yes, I love me some Dwarfs.

Two words: march block

One more word: flank charges. Rangers rock!

Two more words: Strollaz Banner

Thinking about picking up a cavalry force of Warriors of Chaos.  I've done bone to hell (Counts) I got flesh and rust down (Ogres) so now I think its about time for some nice clean, crisp metal  That and the low model count is very appealing.

When I was choosing my next army to play I wanted it:

1) The smallist army list possible.
2) The least thinking tactics-wise for all those post-hangover games.

I chose Dwarf Slayers.

Are they cheap? Um, no.

From a 6" charge to a possible 15" charge?...more reasons to fear the Doomseeker.

Keep us informed of how this army goes mate

JJ

orcs and goblins are great fun and very unpredictable they are almost as fun as ogres and their army book is great also with oag you have freedom with what you choose and you will never see two armies the same

I'm looking at starting Skaven (bandwagon guy, I guess) which is totally insane, as I painted a skaven army for a friend of mine at the beginning of this year and swore to never paint a rat again.

How are beastmen in 8th? Was thinking after finishing my Ogre's to make another army, and beastmen are nice models, at least they appeal my eye. And the battalion also seems like a good deal.

Also, wich army has the more conversion-like ideas?

Between Ogres and Beastmen? You can do chaos ogres, but beastmen simply have a larger variety of creatures, so I have to give the number of conversion opportunities to the beastmen.

I'm toying with the idea of Beastmen. I just like the look of them. I'm not sure how they play though.

I'm toying with the idea of Beastmen. I just like the look of them. I'm not sure how they play though.

A friend of mine plays beastmen at our local club: he smashes everyone completely. Some notes I made while being slaughtered.

Pro's

• Their toughness 4 is really strong, basically removing the benefit of bulls attacks that I am used to having.
• Their primal fury rule gives them alot of rerolls (primal fury= random hatred), and with higher initiative than we that can spell disaster.
• Beastmen have a good chunk of small bait units that hinder and block us. With little space they can lean back against OK and make us run after flying bats like idiots (with all due respect of course).
• Minotaurs are more cost-effective than our similar units, and have a better impact hit than we have.
• Similarly, their heroes and lords are powerhouses aswell.
• Got a banner? Well, let's simply use it for +1 CR! Every banner they get simply adds up.

Con's

• Beastmen do not seem to have much of shooting at all, apart from some skirmisherwarband that did not seem much more effective than gnoblar trappers at what they do (probably worse if you ask me, because who actually uses gnoblar trappers because of their ballistic efficiency?).
• Like ogres, beastmen are more restricted in their good options when it comes to point cost versus efficiency.
• Armour and leadership are lacking, just like our well-gutted friends.
• If you want a whole new way of playing, I don't think beastmen offer that much diversity. The general plan is still to move forward and hit hard, mostly with big units.

Note that this lack of con's does not mean there are none, rather that he is the best player probably we have (being the first to have smashed the all-in-shooty TK list), and that I only played against his strenghts.

Hope this helps,
Birdhunter

It does. I won't be starting a new army for quite some time due to lack of funds, but when I do I basically have it narrowed down to Skaven, Beastmen, or Lizardmen as an unholy trinity fighting in my head and trying to steal much-needed attention from my tribe.

Nice rump roast...

Tomb Kings looks like a good example of an army that plays completely different from Ogres.

I've been eyeballing TK since I first started the hobby (choosing Ogres over them because I love food ), and I gotta say that they are probably completely different in playstyle.

Ogres are primarily focused on movement and combat, whereas TK is pretty magic-heavy (and can be shooty-heavy too, which would be the way I'd wanna try them!). Ogres are fast, TK are 'slow' (usually you aren't rushing to meet them, you hang back and let them clash into ya, so far as I see). But the idea of hordes of skeletons that constantly get back up no matter how much smashing they take just makes me smile, almost as much as watching a meattrain layeth the smackdown on thinlings.

I almost got a friend of mine into Lizardmen because he liked the parodies to the Central-American culture, as well as the wicked Slann that pretty much owns magic. I haven't actually fought against Lizardmen, so idk how much of the Slann is truth over talk, but it sounds like fun, too.

Dwarves!
Thane: Incredibly cheap for a veteranised warrior. Great stats also.
Runesmith: Take a few more dispell runes, and add a few benefits for cannons.
Handgunners: Master engineered pistols that hit really well and can take down nearly any unit!
Ironbreakers: Great weaponeers that are cheap, effective and heavy hitters/ takers.
Miners: Adds an element of surprise to your army, with a very powerful bomb!
Stone thrower: Master engineered and pretty stong.
Cannons: Everybody knows how good they are!
Flame cannons: BURN those Hell Pits abominations and other flammable units.
Organ gun: Alot of shots from this can wipe out whole armys!
Even the whole army has +2 to dispell, and have magic ressistance!
High strenght, toughness, cheap, effective, fun and easy to use!

I have a friend starting Beastmen since he's been playing Dwarves for so long he wants an all-in army. Funding is also what made him decide on Beastmen; otherwise, he may have started Orcs and Goblins.

As for me, I've been torn between Empire and OnG as my second army. These are the units I like for each:

EMPIRE:
- Knightly Orders for their 1-up AS
- Greatswords for their fluff and coolness (I understand they're inferior to flagellants, but I wouldn't field them since as a General I'm not letting a bunch of end-is-nigh wannabes clogging my flanks.)
- Cannons of course (not particularly fond of S. Tanks though - too mechanized I suppose)
- Halberdiers
- Pistoliers
- Crossbowmen
The overall draw is that the Empire army is an army of fathers and sons fighting the enemies of Man to defend their families and homes. MY army would always be led by either a Grand Master Templar or General/Elector Count since it makes more sense for that instead of having an Arch Lector barking orders. I would however have warrior priests supporting units such as Greatswords and Halberdiers. Ranks of disciplined soldiers line up and ready their weapons in the hopes of returning home to the hot meals and warm welcome waiting for them. Fighting the good fight, these men press tirelessly towards liberating the lands in the interests of the free peoples of the Empire in order to ensure mankind's survival against the dark shadows of Chaos, the green tides of Orcs, the pressing herds of the Beastmen, and the unending legions of the Undead. A typical General rests well knowing his combined arms of trained state troops, armored knights, powerful wizards and peerless engineers will serve Karl Franz well in the battles that lie ahead of him.

Orcs and Goblins
- Orc Boyz for their Choppas and T4 and price.
- Black Orcs for being Black Orcs.
- Savage Orcs for having Warpaint and extra attacks
- Boar Boyz for potentially being a big ol' block of Strength 5 attacks on the charge, with a decent armor save to boot
- Goblin Chariots for providing cheap and effective supporting charges
- Night Goblins/fanatics to tie up and harass with their netting nonsense
- Basic Trolls for being effective and cheap Monstrous Infantry.
- Rock Lobbas and Doom Divers for providing an extra little variety to squashing enemies.

A big spam-wave of green rushing over the hill while deceiving the enemy into assuming they are up against an unorganized horde of ill-equipped greenskins. This is not the case. The enemy will encounter a shocking and deliberate variety of specialized troops each armed with the tools needed to handle whatever problems come their way... as long as they can stay civil with each other. Each Mob of greenskins is led by the some of the strongest examples of leadership their race can offer (aka cheap characters), and bring the lores of the Waagh! with them to the battlefront. Etc etc.

My biggest two hesitations about The Empire is how much I will enjoy painting them, considering how little motivaton I could muster to paint High Elves, and also mastering using an Empire army. I've been told it's really hard to make the most out of an Empire Army since they rely heavily on good deployment choices and even better maneuvering tactics. On the flip side, Orcs and Goblins are "hella costly" and from my experience many of the rank-n-file orcs have a lot of trouble properly ranking up. However I would enjoy painting Orcs, I would enjoy playing both armies, but I'd hate having to spend a hojillion dollars on an army that may not pan out the way I think it will, gameplay-wise.

CHOICES HURT MUH BRAINS

Well it's been a while. But I am most likely back. I have been reading but things are not so up to date. I was wondering about 3 armies: warriors of chaos, skaven, and high elves. I know what's on the gw website but was wondering if any body could expand upon them. Thanks.

Skaven are like OnG in that they too are a diverse variety of fodder, toys and hard-hitters. It's just that Skaven has arguably stronger magic and magic item support, and they are a bit more fodder than hard-hitting. Skaven Slaves cost about one skaven slave a piece and I've seen them used very effectively. Clanrats and Stormvermin spam is where it's at in my opinion, since there's nothing more impressive than fully painted hordes of armored Rats. (I'm afraid I'm one of the few guys that likes the old fifth edition Clanrat models.) They can really put a stomp on the enemy with Rat Ogres and the Abomination too, and have sneaky units like Globadiers, Crazy Weapons Teams and Warp Lightning Cannons.

High Elves are expensive core and questinably useful core units with amazing special units followed by useful-but-expensive cavalry. They have the strongest magic options to take to a tournament and their ASF works for a powerful combo when backed by augment magic. In my opinion, the only drawback of High Elves is that you pretty much need to go all magic or go home. I couldn't really run a militant list led by a Prince on Dragon without getting stomped by 8th edition's hyper-accurate warmachines and unit-erasing magic. Great army but it got on my nerves playing it. My favorite list I made was a 3k list that ran two Arch Mages and a big unit of Dragon Princes led by 3 Nobles Decked out to kill. I'd use the Best Lore Archmage to throw Savage Beast of Horros out there so that they'd get somewhere around 18 S9 Attacks on the charge and then stuff from the Princes. It was truly glorious.

Warriors of Chaos is an awesome army if you don't mind having a weak magic phase, weak movement phase, and nonexistent shooting phase. It's all about having three to five amazing units and trying to line them up against the pins and go bowling. You have the best elite Core choice in the game AND the best fodder-cost infantry in the game in one book. There are really tried-and-true optimal unit option for them (for example, Warriors with HW/Shield and mark of Tzeentch) and you can build redundancies into your list with a pair of War Shrines. From what I hear they have one of the best Death Stars to sink points into if you wish to deny Victory Points.

In my opinion, I'd go Skaven. More variety and whacky hijinx.

Thank you for the info. But after looking at models and the books the 2 I like the most are v. Counts and beast men. I saw the beast men info on this page but what are the v. Counts like?

The rumours are that VCs may be released in January. At the moment, they are restricted to two very distinct playstyles to be competitive at tournaments - either a wall of Grave Guard and Ghouls, or the Cav Bus of Doom. The first is extremely dull to play, both with and against, and the second relies very highly on being able to get places with the bus.

Obviously if you are not planning on tournament play, then the above will be of no interest to you! VCs are an army that relies on their characters. If the General dies, the army literally falls apart, and they really need magic to be able to do anything. Their basic troops (skeletons, zombies and ghouls) are rubbish, but you get a lot of them and they will never run away, making them excellent for holding things up. Their more exotic options are really hard, but are really expensive and are relied on to do the actual killing.

They can be an interesting army, but the more you stray from the standardised builds, the harder it is to be competitive.

I've thought about a few but will probably never do them...

High Elves - something completely different than OK.  Was going to run lots of sword masters, just because I like the IoB pose and think that striking first, usually re-rolling, great weapons is to stupidly cool not to give it a try.  Actually owned some of the models to get going, but sold them when I realized I really don't play enough to have a second army in the first place.

Skaven - again, something completely different.  Problem is there are way to many to paint.

Dark Elves - again something different.  This might be one I actually try out.  Would like to go with a witch cult theme.  Hellebron, Hags with CoB, crap ton of witch elves, maybe a hydra for kicks, but probably just the girls for theme.  Problem is five witch elves is $22 retail, that about $440 for 100 of them.  Not really looking at that kind of money when I have a completely fine OK army that has numerous play styles currently.

A new year is approaching and I want a new army that I can build and expand over several years like I have with my Ogres even if I have a couple of thousands left to paint to reach 10K. I want something completely different from Ogres and something I like the fluff, models, and overall feel. Beastmen and Tomb Kings came to mind but it was the hardbook of the TK that sealed the deal.

Plus it is the second army in the game that is neutral.

Next one (and the last from fantasy) is going to be Warriors of Chaos. Giving my soul to chaos gods and the Maw.

I just love nordic themes and such, vikings and all. But I probably start the collection (in full scale) when the new book comes out. :/ been reading rumours that they'll get quite the nerfs. :DD

Recently I've decided that I would like to start collecting an Empire army however, after looking at what I would need to field I think its going to be very costly. It might just be me because I'm used to having very few models on the table (play WoC as well) but looking at the numbers of models I'll need it looks like it'll cost me a lot of money to collect.

I mean £15.50 for 10 state troops doesn't really seem like good value when you consider that a unit of 6 ogres cost £23 and £25.50 for ten great swords is a lot considering you need large numbers of them.

Basically what I want to know is, is The Empire one of the more costly warhammer armies to collect and, just how much am I likely going to have to spend to field a 2000pt army.

I saw The Hobbit and it is Dwarfs for me - 100% plastic though so I will paint the army slowly awaiting a new book in the future and new models.

I saw The Hobbit and it is Dwarfs for me - 100% plastic though so I will paint the army slowly awaiting a new book in the future and new models.

Have to agree. Dwarfs were very well done in the movie and hilarious and cool in the book. They will probably be an all hero army.
Only thing is I find the models could be more detailed... I wouldn't mind them in resin, but then they would cost atrocious money.
Oh well :-/
I also started Lizardmen recently thanks to a kind father giving me 2 of their battalion boxes on Christmass Morn.
Slann mage priests seem to rock magic in fluff and it shows game rules.
Saurus Oldbloods are no combat slouches and conferr a very high Ld10.
Saurus warriors are great for their points, booting the same strenght and toughness as an ogre with 2 attacks each!
Skink warriors are great for holding objectives due to their amount of shots and accuracy.
Salamanders kill buckets of warriors in a single pop, for less than 2 Ironguts!
Stegadons, Carnosaurs and Cold Ones are all good mounts that can either crush (carnie) support (steg) or move fast (cold one) aswell as a terradon for added "surprise".
Personally, since I started, I just got hooked on their backstory and their rules. Lizardmen aren't 'broken' (I wouldn't run dual Slann untill 4000+pts). Plus cool modelling and painting techinques and choices!