Ogres: Unit Comparison Guide

Hey all,

Given a lack of points, how am I supposed to compare my army strength vs. my opponents? Eyeballing and (ogre) gut feelings. Here are some of my observations fighting my friends dwarfs. Please post your own similar comparisons. I think it will help many of us through these hard times.

10 Warriors vs 3 Ogres: Dwarf warriors just don't have what it takes. If they were lucky they'd take down 1 ogre before the third round of combat hit. Maybe doubling the warrior's unit size would help.

10 Longbeards vs. 3 Ogres: The longbeards hold out for several turns (3~4+) before eventually losing out. Usually take 1-2 ogres with them. Many dwarf units have a shieldwall feature which allows them to reroll saves, a powerful ability when coupled with war machine supporting fire.

10 Hammerers vs. 3 Ogres: Ogres usually win out after just a few turns (1~2). Usually losing 1-2 ogres when all is said and done.

1 (Cannon/Organ Gun/Flame Cannon) vs. 3 Ogres + 1 Sabertusk: We ran several iterations of this. If the ogres have a straight run (which in play they likely wont), its usually 50/50 whether the ogres win out or not. Ogres will take heavy casualties. Be especially fearful of the flame cannon, as it always inflicts mortal wounds without rolling to hit. All you need is 1 or 2 ogres to hit the war machine before it's done. If you are lucky a single sabertusk can cripple it enough to succeed.

1 (Cannon/Organ Gun/Flame Cannon) + Engineer vs. 3 Ogres + 1 Sabertusk: Assume that adding an engineer makes the war machine twice as deadly. These fights usually result in the entire ogre unit being erased in just 1 or 2 rounds. I had success throwing a gorger in the mix, but dont underestimate what it takes to take a dwarven war machine down.

1 Bolt-thrower + Engineer vs 2 Mournfang: Bolt throwers are bottom of the barrel as far as dwarven war machines go. While they inflicted heavy wounds, your mournfang will usually wreck this thing without much trouble.

1 Dragon Slayer vs 1 Stonehorn:This wasnt a serious comparison. It was just fun to wreck this guy with impact hits alone, lol.

I don't know how to feel, good for my ogres or bad for my Dwarfs...

How did you get these numbers?  What are your base assumptions?  Who's swinging first?  I've double-checked some of them, and you're WAY off.

A few points to remember:
1: All charges are even, a flat 2d6.  So, our move 6 isn't as much a benefit as it used to be, especially since dwarfs got bumped to M4.
2: There is no longer any initiative, its all about who picks which unit to activate first.  This becomes VERY important when you have multiple combats.
3: Who goes first can change every game turn, so if can work out that you can take back-to-back turns, meaning you can get to activate your unit first (thus getting initiative) multiple times in a row.

For example, say I charge 10 hammerers into 10 ogre bulls.  I cause 7 unsaved wounds before you swing, and then take only take 1 back!  If I get initiative next game turn, and this is the only combat, my 9 hammerers stomp the tar out of the remaining ogres.

@Nihmwit: Those numbers were just the average outcomes over a couple of skirmishes/battles. Not really scientific, just ballpark figures. Its helped me figure out what to bring to the table with no pre-planning.

I have been getting in a bunch of games with my Ogres and have had some great results. Here are some brief rundown of what my experience has been.

1. Enough good things cannot be said about Ironguts. They are absolutely amazing!!
2. Mornfangs are not as brutal as they once were, but their really high movement and durability is a big asset.
3. Giants got SOOO much better. They have a huge damage output and can actually pick command models out of units with the stuff in bag ability.
4. Thundertusk's shooting attack is doom to heroes. Six mortal wounds at full health will kill most heroes/wizards in the game. Very dangerous since they can be picked out now.
5. Maneaters make a very capable support unit, but surprisingly aren't as brutal as the Ironguts. There shooting helps mitigate this, and I am a big fan of the ability that makes them not have to take battleshock tests.
6. Gorgers are a big help in dealing with wizards and war machines. Entering the table eats their movement, but remember they can still charge the turn the come in.
7. Leadbelchers are probably my second favorite unit in the army. Their shooting can be absolutely devastating. Especially once they are locked in combat, since they can still shoot normally while doing so.
8. The Bruiser with battle standard bearer is helpful but I admit that I miss the range of the leadership boost.
9. Firebellies are nice, but their signature spell is not as nice as Butchers, whose maw spell is amazing.
10. Hunters got a nice boost in my opinion. Their throwing spear can be very brutal if the shot makes contact and they still are strong in combat.
11. Skragg misses his ability to cast spells, but still pulls his weight. His healing prayer, innate healing and boost to the Gorgers is appreciated.
12. The Ironblaster is still useful, and provides a big help in dealing with enemy monsters, but is somewhat lackluster.
13. The scraplauncher on the other hand wrecks face for big units and doesn't need line of sight.
14. Sabertusks make a great flanking unit. They can be very useful in getting behind your opponent and getting to hard to reach units with the charge bonus from a hunter.
15. Golfag Maneater is a good hero to hold a flank, and all of his upgrade abilities are very useful.

Hope this helps everyone out. I absolutely love the army and what they have done with them. I have many more schemes still to come and will have to follow up as we get closer.

6. Gorgers are a big help in dealing with wizards and war machines. Entering the table eats their movement, but remember they can still charge the turn the come in.

I'm not sure this is true? Gorgers have to be placed more than 12" away from any enemy unit, and you cannot declare a charge if there is no enemy unit within 12". (They cannot Run when they enter play as Running in AoS is a part of a units Movement, which the Gorgers forfeit for the turn they enter play).

They are still good though, even if the do not manage to reach the wizard or war machine you want dead they will at least divert a portion of your opponents forces; they cannot ignore a unit of Ogres appearing in their backlines. I would drop them in some terrain so that they at least have a chance of surviving the turn though, a 6+ save is not exactly the best.

7. Leadbelchers are probably my second favorite unit in the army. Their shooting can be absolutely devastating. Especially once they are locked in combat, since they can still shoot normally while doing so.

Conversely I have found them less effective then I imagined. The shorter range really hurts, as they have to move more often and thus fire less shots. They are also firing less shots in combat.

I think there could be some merit to moving them along behind a unit of Bulls/Ironguts, so that whenever the other Ogres get stuck in the Leadbelchers can support with some blistering, full-strength,  firepower.

6. Gorgers are a big help in dealing with wizards and war machines. Entering the table eats their movement, but remember they can still charge the turn the come in.

I'm not sure this is true? Gorgers have to be placed more than 12" away from any enemy unit, and you cannot declare a charge if there is no enemy unit within 12". (They cannot Run when they enter play as Running in AoS is a part of a units Movement, which the Gorgers forfeit for the turn they enter play).

They are still good though, even if the do not manage to reach the wizard or war machine you want dead they will at least divert a portion of your opponents forces; they cannot ignore a unit of Ogres appearing in their backlines. I would drop them in some terrain so that they at least have a chance of surviving the turn though, a 6+ save is not exactly the best.

7. Leadbelchers are probably my second favorite unit in the army. Their shooting can be absolutely devastating. Especially once they are locked in combat, since they can still shoot normally while doing so.

Conversely I have found them less effective then I imagined. The shorter range really hurts, as they have to move more often and thus fire less shots. They are also firing less shots in combat.

I think there could be some merit to moving them along behind a unit of Bulls/Ironguts, so that whenever the other Ogres get stuck in the Leadbelchers can support with some blistering, full-strength,  firepower.

You are correct on the Gorgers, I made the mistake of thinking that had to be placed at least 12" away. My bad. They have been really useful at redirecting enemy units. As they are damaging enough that they can't be ignored and with 5 wounds a pop actually take a surprising amount to kill. I generally run a unit of 3 to great effect. The terrain call is definitely a good choice.

As to the leadbelchers, I run them flanked by my Giant or Thundertusk. When the monsters get stuck in, the leadbelchers unload absurd firepower to help finish units off or soften them up for the monster. I use a unit of five generally and even with the D3 shots, they have been averaging 10 shots that have rend and damage 2. Combined with battleshock, that adds up really fast.

As to the leadbelchers, I run them flanked by my Giant or Thundertusk. When the monsters get stuck in, the leadbelchers unload absurd firepower to help finish units off or soften them up for the monster. I use a unit of five generally and even with the D3 shots, they have been averaging 10 shots that have rend and damage 2. Combined with battleshock, that adds up really fast.

Leadbelcher Guns are only Damage 1 I'm afraid, so ten shots on 4s/3s is somewhere around 3 wounds per shooting phase, at 12". Certainly it helps, and they can still charge stuff to reasonable effect, but it's not exactly thunderous firepower. I've been using a squad of 6 and have been quite disappointed with the results, I think a change of tactics is in order.