Archive - Ogre Kingdoms Vs Beastmen

Summary from the old forum:

- Pepi Harlem


- smokey_joe


- Captain_Krunch


- Wah


- Zuggut the Fat


- Van Hellion


- Joey_Boy


- puggimer

i think that having some slavegiants and daemonkiller scars is the way to go.

Force those leadership 7 units to take a lot of tests.

Being A veteran Beastmen player(Khorne) the trick I use Is just like MSU ogres, Bait, Flee, and only charge when you will win, A Giant will hurt ogres very badly, makes them take fear test to charge, 50% chance it wont happen. and even if it does, the giant will probably win, depending if there is a tenderiser in the unit or not...

When you charge there skirmishers, make sure you have your unit in one long line, you dont get as much strength to the bull charge but because you have to get the most models possible into combat they line up the full length and get one rank bonus at most.

A very common trick is to charge firstly with one unit on and angle, so they form up, then charge in the flank aswell so they don't get their precious rank bonuses, use IF, LA, HW vs Beast Herds as they only have S3 so any wounds they do will be cut in half with the saves. If they have Khorngor, avoid these at all costs, even maneaters will get eaten alive, they have 2 WS4, S6 attacks each and most units have a frontage of 6 and are lead by the general, who could have some Nasty-@ss weapon, e.g, chaos daemon sword, he becomes a greater daemon of Khorne.

One thing I've learned the hard way- Bestigors are a lot tougher than they appear. Beware.

Avoid dragon ogres. They are faster, stronger, tougher, and generally better armoured and all around than Ogres. Either hammer them or hit them hard.

I'm a beastmen player so I can give a lot of useful advice on this subject. But I'm not going to because Ogre players would have some more advice on how to beat beastmen. What I can do is point out the obvious.
If there are heavy units such as Minotaurs or Dragon Ogres coming at you, then try and stop them before they reach you at all costs.
If you see a very powerful creature like a Shaggoth or Doombull on its own, then take your chance and charge it before it charges you.
If you know that your opponent is going to ambush you, then put small amounts of gnoblars behind or to the sides of your deployed units to stop them.
But most important and obvious of all is to try and win!

Trolls cause fear. And no one would play them away from the general.

Well, next time came and went.  Played the same army/person.  Got plastered worse than before.  This time appaling dice rolling was my biggest downfall.  My opponet felt so bad that he bought me a pop afterwards,  .  Oh well, it was still a good day.  I learned alot from the game, my opponent was fun to play against, and I skipped out of work early to play so it was still fun.

Really need to find a way to deal with all of the big beasties running around.

Beastmens initiative is quite low (sorry if i make any spelling mistakes but english is not my first language) but then so is ours so its important to match up your combats, ive seen a horde of ungors decimate a unit of 8 strong bulls due to higher iniative, spears and frenzy with a gorebull bsb in it, watch out for chariots as they are ace in the new edition with the strength seven rule gone. the gut magic missile 2d6 s2 hits is very effective against these. do not let bulls (except in serious numbers) go up against a fully ranked up unit of bestigors because you can only kill so much and their hitting you on threes and wounding you on twos. even outnumbered two to one or worse bulls can handle gors as they are not strong enough to do any damage and they are wearing no armour at all. our lords and heroes are more than a match for them but watch out for minotaur characters cos their initiative is good and their pretty much our equivelant but with frenzy. their lore of the wild can be good and watch out for their jabberslythe and gorhons which can rip units to shreds, ive only played beastmen once myself and that was with my dwarves but their prettty good with a decent general in8th

Well not many Beastmen armies around by the looks.

We have one player where I play and the Beastman Army is nasty.

He runs a list with 3 big blocks supported by characters and a big Minotaur unit. He uses 2 chariots and 2 Monsters as flankers.

Basically his list does a similar thing to Ogre Kingdoms but better

To add insult to injury the Minotaurs get impact hits from any distance

beastmen rare choices have 3 things in common
1. theyre large targets
2. theyre unarmored
3. 1 and 2 combined make them overpriced pin cushions.

most beastmen cheesy armies wont have em but they do if so, the ghorgon seems to be the go

shoot them with leadies. move lots of gnoblars in close.shoot. then stand and shoot. 50 gnoblars shooting 200 times will kill ANYTHING unarmored but if maths fails then your opponents in a tar pitt

have fun

I think the key to defeating Beastmen may be our Gut Magic combined with Scraplaunchers and Gnoblars to sacrifice.

Death-stars go pretty well as well.

Flanking the Minotaur units seems to be the way to defeat them.

^Bob is right once again.

Minotaurs= Better than IGs, relatively the same. Have to be tarpitted or dual charged. They are truly beasts.

Bestigors= A lot of Beastmen use 1 unit of them as their big hammer unit that holds the lord. Careful because these also are strong in hth combat and have nice WS an str with G8 weapons.

Ungors= Not as popular, but as mentioned earlier, can be strong. Usually unaccompanied but will act more as a MSU or detachment styled unit.

Primal Fury= Awesome rule. I dont have my book on me but im pretty sure its perma-hatred. Makes me wanna play Beastmen more. Hates everything. Everything gets stronger, so you'll have to win quicker.

Chariots= With Razorgors can decimate ranks. Razorgors are stronger than a Minotaur. And they are Core. Expect to see a lot of these.

Harpies= Not many people mention these, but in a tournament i can see these being in there. Maybe 5-6 in a unit. Still something to mention. Two attacks each.

Rare Choices= They have some great new choices, but other than being variations on Giants nothing too crazy. One can fly. They all have to be WIP'd though so you likely wont them as much.

Leadbelchers are incredible against anything from ungors to minotaurs. In my last game against them, I knocked a 15-strong unit of bestigors out in 1 round of shooting. My tyrant disposed of the doombull, and his minotaurs got eaten by my giant.

EDIT: Heres how it happened. He only had 3 minotaurs, who fled from a braingobbler, and my giant ran them down.

Leadbelchers are incredible against anything from ungors to minotaurs. In my last game against them, I knocked a 15-strong unit of bestigors out in 1 round of shooting. My tyrant disposed of the doombull

Nice. I havn't had that much out of my Leadbelchers yet; I've had a unit of 5 get 34 shots and only kill 7 Handgunners... I've also had 3 get 14 shots and kill 7 Swordmasters. For some reason my LBs seem to like killing in 7s...

and his minotaurs got eaten by my giant.

How? o_O Giants have only Headbutt, Yell and Bawl and Throttle with Chain against monstrous infantry and only Yell and Bawl is actually good against them! Were you just lucky with the Giants attacks, letting you run them down?

Yell and Bawl can be good too as you auto-win the combat and force Minotaurs to lose their frenzy and extra attacks. Still, I have to wonder as well how a Giant beat Minotaurs unless it flanked them and they broke.

This is an army I know well, I have played them about 30 times in 8th ed.  It is also the 2nd largest army I own... Dwarfs being the largest heh.

There are two basic splits on Beastmen those with Primal Fury, and those without.  If they have Primal Fury they will be on 20 mm (Ungor Herd & Ungor Raider) or 25mm (Gor, Bestigor, Wargor, Brey Shaman Beastlord, & Centigor)  The only exception to this is Chariots and they have two types.  Tuskgor and Razorgor Chariots.  All these units have Primal Fury which basically means they have a very improved version of Hate.

Primal Fury happens if they simply pass a leadership test, if they do they gain hatred for that round of combat, a Beastlord has LD of 9, Wargor 8, Brey Shamans 7  Ungors are a 6 LD and Gors are a 7.  If they roll snake-eyes on their leadership they are also counted as being frenzied that round of combat too as well as having hatred.  However, this is not on always, so they choose when they want to charge and flee, but if they pass a leadership test they have to pursue because they are suffering from hatred.

Beastmen are lower Initiative at a 3 pretty much across the board, though heroes go up, and Doombulls/Beastlords having the best.  Another key thing to note is that Beastmen with Primal Fury are lower strength at either a 3 or the rare 4.  The only exceptions to this is chariots who are a mix of strengths but are 5 on impact hits, and the Tuskgor is +2 str on the turn it charges. 

Bestigors are using Great Weapons, and the champion could have a Daemonic Gift of up to 25 points on him, so watch out for special abilities on him.  They can only use heavy armor, so they drop very fast as not not overly awesome.  They can also use a magic standard, and are the only unit to be able too.  They are a special choice, and most units of 20 models are over 350 points.   Which is horrid for str/tough 4 models with a 5+ and no ward/regeneration saves.

Centigors have lots some steam in 8th ed since they do not get to attack first because of charging.  They are also a unit that has a lot going on with it.  Before the game starts they have to roll to see how drunk they are, if they are sober they get +2 Initiative, other wise they are treated as normal, or get to reroll their Primal Fury test.  Also they have a unit Champion that is named, it cost a ton like a 165 points, but he is a brutal and makes all Centigor units core.

There are two types of Chariots Tusk, and Razor... Tusks are 80 points a pop, and are core, very often you see them protecting the flanks of larger units and normally not by themselves.  Razor chariots are Specials, are higher Strength, better wounds, and cause fear.  Both chariots can have heroes in them of any type.  I will talk about a Brey Shaman trick later, that is sick with them.

Ungor Herds, these are the cheapest rank units that Beastmen have, and can have shields, spears or the standard hand weapon.  They also can take unit of equal size or smaller in start it off the board edge, unit champions and standards do not apply to this unit, so it may or may not have them in it.  Also this unit can take a single unit with an upgraded champion like the Centigors, this guy is also pretty badass.  At the start of the turn you roll leadership if you make it that guy is treated as a level 1 caster with a random spell from death for that turn... the spell changes every time btw,  if he fails than he has improved stats +2WS +1 Str and Tough I believe.  This unit can not use the general's Leadership BTW.  Also the spell does not use dice, and is automaically cast at base value if I remember right too, but he is also now a 72 point champion with a 3 stat line. lol

Ungor Raiders, these are the only ranged style unit the Beastmen have, and they suck imo.  Short Bows with 16 inch range, max of 10 per unit, skirmishers, and no scouting...  They can also deploy these off the board edge and come on later though.

Gors, these guys frustrate me... Why they have dwarf stats with a 3 str and 4 toughness I will never know.  They cost more than the Ungors, and can have shields or an extra hand weapon.  They are probably the best block troop to have though.  I have a tactic with these that is solid, and when I get the models I will take to a GT probably, but I will talk about that in a minute.

So above I have talked about all the units with Primal Fury basically.  Now we have Brey Shamans and Wargors as heroes, and Great Brey Shamans and Beastlords as Lord Choices. Brey shamans are hard to field properly imo, you either need to totally focus on them or have a scroll catty.   They have magic items that makes all Brey Shamans more powerful by either making all casts within 6 inches of the item bearer +1 to casting or an object that gets placed that give each Shaman an extra dice each owning magic phase if they are within 6 inches.  However, don't start worrying yet, their magic is either meant to keep them mobile with Beast or Death, or weak when you look at Wild.

So there are two types of magic heavy lists, those that huddle around a Herdstone and gain bonus dice and use Wild Magic to try and summon stuff, or mobile offensive casters in units of raiders or Gors that move with the units.  Heroes can no longer come from the the table edge like in 7th, so they will be deployed as normal.  Shamans are base tough 4 and Greats are tough 5, so they are harder to wound than a normal weak caster, but they have no armor and limited attacks.  I wold also like to say that Great Brey Shamans are not worth their points normally. That being said let me show you a few things I do with them...

Haggtree Fetish +20 and a Dispel Scroll points on a brey Shaman, allows you to pick a unit within 24 inches and put an effect on on that unit that can not be dispelled.  it last for one magic phases and states all spells that try and damage that unit and fail can reroll the damage.  I forget the name of the spell it is the level 1 spell though, and there is a magic item call the Staff of Darth....  that is +50 points and goes on the other Brey Shaman.  This spell is only strength 1, but does 5d6 damage... when you get to rerolls, and 6s still wound with a chance at twice a turn.  Ouch!

Great Brey Shaman in a Razor Chariot, with the Shaman only item Skin of Man +15 (gives Scout to the model), The Steel Blades or something for +35 (gives a D3 extra attacks and if you roll a 6 they ignore armor), and the Jagged Dagger +10 an Arcane Item btw, (each model killed by the bearer gains a token, which can be turned in now or in later turns for an extra power dice).  There are several Gifts you can give them that are nasty, I personally like Slug Skin at +20 points that forces each model in bas contact to take a str 3 attack before anything else happens in combat.  That still leaves you with 20 more points to play with and personalize it.  You take Beast as your path and come at them in a chariot that is fully buffed and a character that has 3 to 5 attacks base... however this is extremely expensive at about 450 points.  Normally I run around killing weak stuff, and passing out buffs, then late game if I have taken damage I try for the transformation spells.


Wargors and Beastlords are the melee types with Primal Fury.  They are also tougher stat wise, but weaker armor wise than most heroes.  There are some nice weapon choices though...

First Horn +50, All friendly Beastmen in 36 inches can reroll their failed Primal Fury Tests.

My personal Favorite the Mangelder +50, Causes terror, and all unsaved wounds lowers the LD of that model by 1.

I forget the name, I want to call it the Axe of Men at +75 points.. I am doing this purely from memory lol.  What it does anyways is this.  If you kill a character in a challenge you, and the unit you are with become Unbreakable and cause Terror, oh and this weapon is a great weapon and it has KB on it too btw.  If I had 100 Gor, I have strongly considered running them with a lord choice and a BSB in this unit with this item. You would have your Deatstar Unbreakable and causing Terror...

...More on the melee choices.  They can have nice suits of armor that can take them to a 1+ armor save, or give them extra attacks when they make armor saves, which makes the last lord choice nasty as well.  They can get higher initiative with a gift as well.

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Now those that do not have Primal Fury....

Gorbull, Doombull, Minotaurs, Razorgors, Harpies, and all the giant types. 

Minotaurs are 55 points base, +12 if they want great weapons... they are base str 5, so str 7 with great weapons.  They can also buy extra hand weapons, or a shield... Smart players will have either great weapons for can openers, or shields for ward saves.  They can have a champion, but it is sick cost wise, however, with rules stating that if a champion kills a hero they get 50 VP... it is not a bad idea.  Minotaurs gain an extra attack each round they win, so if they do not lose combat they keep gaining and gaining...  The first round they gain Frenzy if they did not have it already fyi.  So that could be a champion with a str 7ish great weapon swining 4 to 6 times... and easily more.  Also the champion can have up to 25 points in magic items.  I personally like the Stone of Spite +25 on them (one time use, all arcane items in 18 inches of the bearer explode causing a d6 str4 hits per item.  Some named characters still can have more than one item btw.)

Razorgors are beasts... beyond the literal sense too.  They are strength and tough 5, with 7 inch movement, and all razorgors whether in a chariot or not get +1 strength on the charge.  They come in units of 1+ so you could very well see a unit of 6 razorgors with beast magic spells put on them slamming you for tons.  They also have 3 wounds each and are 55 points each.  No command though in this unit.

The hero and Lord choices for Bulls are pure melee monsters.  They start at 4 wounds and lords have 5, they have some of the beast stats across the board for any lord choices, but are only leadership 7-8.  They also cause Frenzy in any unit they join, and if they join a unit with Primal Fury they take that away from them.  A common dirty little trick some do is start a bull in a unit of minotaurs and have him leave after the start of the game... now that unit of minotaurs has Frenzy.  They are a 40 mm base that is a  frenzied wrecking ball on 6 inch wheels, and with 4 or 5 plus frenzy attacks per turn they are nasty.

A Wargor or a Gorbull can be a BSB.

Common to see them with the Brass Cleaver +30 (+3 attacks), and Ramhorn Helm +15 (6+ armor save, and any armor save you make gives you one extra attack).

Also all minotaurs have impact hits regardless of their charge distance, and bulls have a D3 impact hits.

a common tactic with a Gorbull BSB is to either take the standard that give the bearer and the unit he is with +1 str, or putting him in a 3 wide unit with full command so he is in the 2nd rank, and give him a banner that hurts everyone around him (-1 to armor saves for everyone within 6 inches of him and -2 for his unit and any unit touching his unit). With str 5 impact hits, stomp attacks, extra hand weapons + frenzy + extra attack for being a minotaur.... units explode around them.  Minotaurs do not have much armor to speak of anyways. 

Harpies are flyers that wont do much against us, they are stat line 3, and fragile in smaller numbers.


Giants are very generic with Beastmen, but the rest of their monstrous rare creatures are not.

Jabberscythe 275  Has flight, Terror, Stubborn, An Aura of Insanity that forces all enemy units that are not ItP to take a leadership test and suffer wounds by however many they fail it by without armor saves.  It also has a single 12 inch tongue attack that can move and fire.  It has poison attacks, and every time it takes a wound in melee it causes a strength 5 attack back.  Stat line is basically a 5.

Cycgor 275  My personal favorite...  Terror, Stubborn, counts as a stone thrower (move and Fire btw), and messes with casters hard core.  All enemy casters within 24 inches of a Cycgor must take a LD test at the start of each of their magic phases.  If they fail it, they are effected.  Effected caster who fails to cast a spell on the dice by not reaching the number counts as miscasting.  Also if you have any of these things in a unit that the Cycgor is fighting he gets rerolls in melee (magic item, undead, daemon, ward save, or caster).  However, it only has a 2 WS so it needs all the help it can. It has a stat line of 5 with its' 7 inch movement.

Gorgon 275 This is a beast in melee... Terror, Stubborn, does a D3 impact his ( I think ), 7 inch movement, and can choice to for go all of its' attacks to strike with a single KB o a 4+ attack, when it lands the KB it does heals a D3 wounds.  It is also treated like a Frenzied Minotaur where it gains an extra attack each time it wins combat.  However, it is a stat line of 6 with 7 attacks frenzied.


The common things between these models are no armor, quick movement, and a lot of points.... I feel they are worth it, but they are a lot of points.  Which means if your opponent takes one or two of these than they have a smaller army over all.



This is also one of the few armies that can have two level 4 wizards flying around the battle field with flight.  There are several named characters that are awesome, but that probably be another post for another time. hehe

Normal types of builds are going to have one or two big blocks of either Gors or Ungors, at least 2 maybe 4 tuskgor chariots, if the model comes out people will start getting the Razorgor chariots rocking I am sure.  One maybe two units of 3 to 6 minotaurs, and 1 to 2 monsters that work well together.  Something to consider too, a Wild shaman can summon one of these as well, so a Herdstone can be a little crazy with luck.  If they summon one, turn and kill it fast, it will probably kill the caster who summoned it as well fyi.  Also these summoned creatures come from a board edge of their choice and can move on the board, so auras or ranged attacks can get ya.

Watch out for Cycgors using terrain to hide, then step out to throw a rock at something you were out of LOS on on your turn.

Nope, dont watch out for cygors at all. no one uses them in competative play(as a generalisation of course)
just go on the herdstone(the beastman forum) cygors ate treated as what they are... a joke.

wow a stonethrower that costs 3x what everyone elses does. and cant fight in close combat at all and is less survivable than a razorgor.(large target ws2)

also why knock bestigors. they are a very good unit, the best in the beastman book and considered as such by the best beastman players, much cheeper than minos and better at monster hunting.
still you made manny good points and spent alot of time makeing that list so thanks a whole lot

anyway watch out for pumbabuses.(this is 2 razorgor 1 behind the other) they will kill mages and bsbs like nothing else for only 110pts

@Tanksie  I want to thank you for your balanced wording both pushing back with your opinion, and seeing that this was not a random post that was cut/paste from another forums. hehe  Also just a question are you German by chance?

Nope, dont watch out for cygors at all. no one uses them in competative play(as a generalisation of course)
just go on the herdstone(the beastman forum) cygors ate treated as what they are... a joke.

wow a stonethrower that costs 3x what everyone elses does. and cant fight in close combat at all and is less survivable than a razorgor.(large target ws2)

Yes they are 275 points, and are a rare slot rather than a special for most stone throwers, but that is not all they do.  The are tough 5, strength 5, and have 5 attacks... they are weapon skill 2, but if the unit you are fighting has a magic item, wizard, undead, daemon, or a ward save in it than you get to rerolled failed hits in melee.  Also wizards fear it, any and all wizards in 24 inches of the model must make a leadership, if they fail this leadership and cast a spell that fails to reach the target number than it is automatically considered a miscast.  That is a fair bit of stuff for a single model to do...  oh yeah and he moves 7 inches, so he can also move out of range of normal guns and still throw that rock.

I personally like it, but there are very good arguments on using the other rare choices as well.

anyway watch out for pumbabuses.(this is 2 razorgor 1 behind the other) they will kill mages and bsbs like nothing else for only 110pts

I would totally agree that would be a sick combo.  I had not heard of that one, but in a 'Ard Boyz or something where you are not worried about comp, that could be very dirty and effective.  I think I need more of those for that maybe, because who would expect Beastmen at an 'Ard Boyz. heh

also why knock bestigors. they are a very good unit, the best in the beastman book and considered as such by the best beastman players, much cheeper than minos and better at monster hunting.
still you made manny good points and spent alot of time makeing that list so thanks a whole lot

Bestigors are strength 4, and have heavy armor, they are the only unit that can use a magic standard, but they cost a lot.  25 Bestigors with a magic standard is nearly 400 pts, that is a lot for a hordish army.  Bestmen are one of the few armies imo, that can either go huge hordes or powerful elite troops with a lot of chariots for core. 

I am currently in the middle with horde units and elite units, since I went for a balance...  However, I am considering some day going for an extreme, but I am not sure which yet or if I want to put the money and effort into it. hehe  However, here are some of the benefits to each. 

Extreme Horde; could very well be a mostly outflank army, with One Eye as the general.  One Eye allows the beastmen player to choose to reroll if they do not like the side they're coming in on with any unit.  Beastmen are slightly better than Skaven troop to troop, but they cost more so the question would be if a beastmen did not take any troop that costs a lot and had a ton of troops would that make up the difference of having an A-Bomb and ranged weapons.  One thing to keep in mind is half of these troops would be off the board coming in on the flanks.  I am not sure yet, but is interesting to me.

Extreme Elite; with this I would take the named caster who has flight, he is a lord choice and a level 4 wizard.  I would then take another caster lord at level 4, and give him the flying carpet, so I would have two level 4 wizards zooming around blasting crap.  They would both be death, and have the level zero spell, so between them they would have all 6 spells in death, or I would take one death, and the other Wild or Beast Lore and use those buffs or shape changes for more utility.  I would then take like 8 Chariots at 80 for a total of 640 pts which meets the required core at 2500 pts.  I would then take Deathstar of Minotaurs, (after playing a Deathstar of Ironguts I would go Great Weapons here too), and then run 3 Razorgor units of 2 models, now that I Know that bus trick, and I would put the rest into Gorgons for more killing.

Both are tempting, and have their weakness and strengths, the Horde has the chance for a horded up unit of Gors to come from any board edge with lots of support to follow or be in advance, and the Elite has movement 6 or greater in all of its units it is also higher toughness being a 5 or high in all units.

Beastmen from the old chaos Codex had the S 3 and T 4 of dwarves, plus they had 2 W each. They used to be super deadly, being the only basic infantry with 2 W.

yeah sadly though with ranks being able to attack, that is not as unique as it once was.  Also having to pay for 2nd ranks is not so cool either when you only get one attack now from the supporting ranks with infantry.  If they would have left Ungors in the Gor units, it would have been better with spears as an option to support another rank.

I will say this though.  Gors are not horrible, I like them and could see them in huge units of them.  They're cheap, and they are t4... but I would have to give them shields, and call it a day.  I am not sure if I talked about it in this thread yet, but when I was really considering going back to play these guys, I was considering taking the Gors I had to a 100 man unit with a beastlord who has Mane Bane weapon... I think that is what it is called.   Anyways, it has killing blow, and is a great weapon, and if that model kills a hero while in a challenge the whole unit gains Unbreakable and causes Terror.  I 100 man/goat block of unbreakable terror causing models is a problem for most armies even if they are strength 3.