Ogre Kingdoms in End Times: Archaon

So it would seem the rumour mongers from Warseer (with some credible photographs go the ET Archaon book from a chinese website visible over there) have some idea of what's happening to our beloved Ogres.

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.5qAQkz&id=43207727832&ns=1&abbucket=1#detail

It would seem that we are to be subsumed into the Orcs and Goblins in the 'Beasts Waaagh'.

Grimgor is the incarnate of beasts (FACT) and opens up a giant green maw in the ground which swallows a lot of us whole, and we decide to join the O&G for some reason...

Well - at least we exist...

That's not great news, but at least I'd rather combine with O & G's than Empire.

I'm still hoping that ET stuff is just that, and Ogres continue into 9th. But is it a fools hope?

Well, I guess I should consider working on my O&G smattering of troops that I have received from my friend lol... My collection would be easier with Ogres/Empire, but that seems to blasé lol

Well, the more I think about it, the more it looks like that, instead of killing off armies, what they're looking to do is simply create "factions" books, so that there's new ways of playing the same armies, and now there's ways to combine multiple collections into one playable substance (without necessarily using those silly "alliance" rules that they have, which I felt were kinda weak anyway). So, most likely, they aren't going to eliminate any armies, but instead of focusing on each of them individually, they'll do these bulk releases featuring a selection of the armies.

Again, just an educated guess (or uneducated, you never really know lol).

So are Ogres going to be in the next book?

In other words, should i buy it?

Pics of the big leak can be found:

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.5qAQkz&id=43207727832&ns=1&abbucket=1#detail

Grimgor has some rule that specifically allows him to affect Ogre Kingdoms

I really don't like how the ogres have hardly had any involvement in the story and basically bend over to an orc.  What happens to all the special characters?

Know what I mean?

Kind regards Zolas.

Original post edited to contain link.

Yes, for me this is all about handling. If they don't address it much, then it will be baffling what happens to the Ogre leaders and society. If handled properly with respect: I think I can deal with a slight change in our religion as it were.

On a chaos note - I'll be a bit disappointed if Archaon doesn't get a new set of rules. He is after all Lord of the End Times and the frontman for all the dark powers which have created the 8 incarnates. If several (if not all) of the incarnates could so easily beat him to a pulp in a single turn...what's there to be scared of??

I really don't like how the ogres have hardly had any involvement in the story and basically bend over to an orc.  What happens to all the special characters?

Know what I mean?

Kind regards Zolas.

I know exactly what you mean. I can see Greasus being killed off and that is how Grimgor become our Overtyrant, having bested him in single combat

Yes, for me this is all about handling. If they don't address it much, then it will be baffling what happens to the Ogre leaders and society. If handled properly with respect: I think I can deal with a slight change in our religion as it were.

It is all in the details. I have said it before but having access to Goblin units open up a lot of Gnoblar conversions not previously available to us.

I am just curious to who is regretting not making OrcOgres when they had the chance

Obviously, with how early it is and how everything is mostly just rumors and stuff, it is way too early to get overly doom and gloomy.

That said, I'm going to be pretty sad if there are no ogre super characters.  From the pictures it looks like we get mixed with O&G, and can use their super character, but its really not the same.  For starters, there was a reason that I didn't want to make an O&G army, so I see little reason as to why I would start them up just to get access to a character.

Maybe we will get lucky and get some new rules that we can use without having to take a bunch of infantry with annoying spelling.

From what I could read in the picture from the link posted above, it looks like Grimgor is a challenge-winner. But, his other rules are basically for Black Orcs, by the look of it.

He has a bound 12" Wyssan's for all O&G and Ogres units, which is really nice, especially for someone like me who has trouble picking a unit to give Wyssan's to ... A magic weapon with +2 strength and ASF, along with his always reroll hits/wounds in challenges? And a 1+ armor with a 3(or5?)++ save? He sounds like he'd be alright. Probably not enough to take on any of the big bad boys out there (Glottkin or KF:A), but he'd definitely wreck most characters.

I'd almost be interested in getting a horde of Black Orcs to give my army an anvil; plop this guy in there and I think we'd have a fun game

---

I'm trying to be optimistic lol... Honestly, the Ogre army seems to me to be more of a fan-service than one of their beloved armies; they've only ever had one update and only one major release. Not necessarily a "focal-point army" if you know what I'm saying lol... But, that's how it goes.

---

Another thought: If they're going to be grouping Ogres up with O&G, then in 9th edition with the factions, are we still going to be there? Or are we going to be in the Empire faction? Or will we be in/have access to both? Any thoughts?

If they treat the Ogres/Orcs combined list similarly to how they treated the Elf combined lists, I am keen for triple giant action.

If they treat the Ogres/Orcs combined list similarly to how they treated the Elf combined lists, I am keen for triple giant action.

We can count Yhetee models as Snow Trolls and finally they will be worth taking

Lots to be excited by but everything so far must be taken with a pinch of salt

So Grimgor opened up a hole in the ground which swallowed up most of the characters, and the rest of the Ogres went:
"Oh you must be the Lord of the Maw, we'll follow your puny green ass anywhere"?

They forgot all about us and had to put Ogres somewhere, and since all of the other books had already been released, it was the only option....
What would Ogres bring to an OnG list that they don't already have a unit for already?

I can see plenty of synergies working well between OnG and Ogres, considering Ogres are basically big orcs anyway.  We'd be giving them access to BRB magic lores, as well as Lore of the Maw.  Just so long as they don't take away our Gnoblars because "they're basically goblins".

Wait and see, I think Grimgor's bound wyssans on Orcs and Ogres is cool, and if that's the kind of theme they're going with for I'm keen to see what they do with us.  Might actually buy this ET book, since one of my armies is getting some love.

I have just started thinking about lists for this.  Brawlers Bash is coming up and allowing End Times factions.  I am not thinking what Ogres add to Orcs, I am thinking what Orcs add to Ogres.

I am loving the idea of
Blaster
Blaster
Doom Diver
Doom Diver
Rock Lobba
Rock Lobba
Savage Orc Horde
2 x smaller units of Guts
Lots of Mournfang!

Maybe even take Grimgor if he is allowed to ride with some Mournfang.   

Wonder if they/we are getting any new models with this release?  Doesn't look like it.  Wonder why none of the "good guys" or "neutral" guys haven't gotten any new models?  Only Chaos affiliated armies have new units.

Wonder if they/we are getting any new models with this release?  Doesn't look like it.  Wonder why none of the "good guys" or "neutral" guys haven't gotten any new models?  Only Chaos affiliated armies have new units.

Because GW has such a fanatical love for the chaos guys that they have to have the best of everything.

It doesn't seem to occur to them that some people LIKE playing armies that aren't covered in sores.

Oh YES, and don't forget Hand of Gork on a Hellheart character!

I won't lie, I've not been too enamored of the End Times, myself. I just don't like where the lore is going, and it does seem the factions I really like are getting the very short end of the stick. There are two things in particular that stand out. In terms of the Ogres, it's how they joined under the Orcs that bothers me, especially when in the intro of the BRB, they state that a massive Ogre force has been hired by Grimgor Ironhide, which would have been a much more acceptable reason for them to join the Orcs. It's as if GW couldn't even be arsed to reread their own lore before making story decisions. Not sure who figured that Ogres would take orders from Orc...

The other is regarding my Lizardmen, namely Mazdamundi declaring the Great Plan has failed and that the Exodus has begun. That feels so out of character for the reptiles that I can't accept it as something they would ever do. They'd die before they'd ever accept failure had occurred. Whether that interpretation remains current, I'm not sure. After Mazdamundi's declaration, I have had little to nothing to do with the End Times.

I won't lie, I've not been too enamored of the End Times, myself. I just don't like where the lore is going, and it does seem the factions I really like are getting the very short end of the stick. There are two things in particular that stand out. In terms of the Ogres, it's how they joined under the Orcs that bothers me, especially when in the intro of the BRB, they state that a massive Ogre force has been hired by Grimgor Ironhide, which would have been a much more acceptable reason for them to join the Orcs. It's as if GW couldn't even be arsed to reread their own lore before making story decisions. Not sure who figured that Ogres would take orders from Orc...

Those reasons can both exist at the same time. We do not know the timeline yet

Example: Grimgor hires Greasus and all under his command. Then kills Greasus to become head of the tribe

Just so long as they don't take away our Gnoblars because "they're basically goblins".

I can actually see the reverse happening - "We already have [Night] Goblins and now we have Gnoblars - we don't need 'normal' Goblins anymore".

3 types of Goblin would be silly.  I even find the idea of Night\Common Gobbos being a different thing silly and I used to have a huge Orc and Goblin army in the way back.

Minigiant was mentioning something about Gnoblar Doom Divers in his Gnoblog.  I can see the old Doom Diver being superseded by the Scrap Launcher as a counts-as if they do merge and stream-line the range.

All said - I'd love to have some Snotlings in my Ogre army.  O&G were my first love or Warhammer, so I often ogle the range and consider dumping my skinny Elves for them.

More on topic - the new Bloodthirster is a lovely model.  Too big, but I think a lot of End Times releases are. I've always struggled to transport even my Warhammer Giants with ease, never mind a model with all those easily breakable parts dangling about!!!

I certainly don't think the new BT is as good as the FW one.  On the rumours/info we have cast our eyes over this only further reinforces my need to see where warhammer will be in 6 months time.  Wait and see I guess.

So i translated the last paragraph of Grimgors page

"When finally the echoes of Grimgor’s shout subsided, so did the earth tremors. The surviving Greenskins and Ogres had no idea that Grimgor had been infused with Ghur, the wind of Beasts. Yet they felt the waves of godlike, bestial power that (rolled) from the warboss, and they looked at one another in mutual amazement. Almost as one, Orc, goblin and Ogre fell to their knees and abased themselves before the incarnate of Beasts. From now on, Grimgor would lead the Beast – Waaagh! And it would be an army like none the world had ever seen"

Having now had a look at the tiles for Grimgor, he can only be used in an O&G army. So no mention of a 'host of etc' list that combines the two, so it would look like a battle scroll is needed to field he two armies together this far...

Well if this happens I for one will be excited. ...the whole ET has sort of put me off gaming abit as didn't really want to start a new army to take advantage of ET...but looks like I will be able to show the ogres some love with some new models...does anyone know when it will all happen?

Well if this happens I for one will be excited. ...the whole ET has sort of put me off gaming abit as didn't really want to start a new army to take advantage of ET...but looks like I will be able to show the ogres some love with some new models...does anyone know when it will all happen?

27th February

Advance orders are up on the evening of 6th of March (Friday next week).

Archaon is without a doubt my favourite character in Warhammer, especially after reading Archaon: Everchosen.

Whilst I'm pretty certain he has to go the way of the dodo, and his new rules seem to suck in comparison to every other new character that's been given rules...

I still want him to be dealt with properly and be sufficiently baddass to have caused all this turmoil. If he dies to let's say....an 'eadbutt from an irrelevant Orc. It's safe to say I'll be miffed. The only thing suitably epic IMO is for him to super empowered in some way and duel off with the Incarnates. Yes all of them. That's what I want.

BB

The only thing suitably epic IMO is for him to super empowered in some way and duel off with the Incarnates. Yes all of them. That's what I want.

Very similar to lets say all the Marvel Avengers vs Thanos?

EXACTLY that. Or Kang the conqueror.

Although they appear to have retconned Archaon's earlier backstory so that Be'lakor is now his father...

Personally, my friends and myself still play 8E. I like reading the ET books, as it shakes up the warhammer world. It looks like they brought back Tyrion which is crazy. Personally, Grimgor is a beast (pun intended) he has crazy attacks with asf. That is nuts for an orc.

All good things come to an end, really hope the Ogres have an interesting future in 9th ed....

RIP Warhammer world.

I hope that whatever shape Warhammer Fantasy takes in the future, there'll still be room for Ogres.

Yes a lot of I for readily available already on the fluff if you're willing to trawl the net to find it. The world definitely ends. SPOILER:

Archaon kills Grimgor after a close fight
Archaon beaten by sigmar who chucks him into some rift the incarnates have made.
At which point manfred ruins it by attacking someone (can't remember who)
Archaon steps back out (pretty badass) and fights Sigmar once more.
Archaon left with world ending around him - he picks up Ghal Maraz to finish off Sigmar once and for all BUT it's never seen.

Something like that...

You heard it here first!
BB

Archaon left with world ending around him - he picks up Ghal Maraz to finish off Sigmar once and for all BUT it's never seen.

That's not true. I have the book and it says clearly that they were wrestling on the ground as Sigmar tried to hit Archaon with Ghal Maraz but Archaon grabbed the shaft, then they both were "lost in the swirling darkness".