2 Bruisers instead of 1 Tyrant?

Has anyone considered, running two Bruisers instead of one Tyrant?

A Tyrant with full kit is 322 (if you run him with a GW). 

Two Bruisers with a 4++ and a GW are 327.

So I can have a Tyrant giving me 5 Str 7 attacks with WS6 and 5 wounds.

Ore two Bruisers netting me 8 Str 7 attacks with WS5 and 8 wounds.

Now you need the Std of Discipline in order to sill have ld 9.  So for a total of 20 points you get +3 attacks +3 wounds for a trade of -1 WS and 50 points of kit.

I used to do this all the time when I played chaos in 6th and 7th edition.  It was great.  You can't argue Math.  And really now that you have bruisers, you can get the BSB to compensate for the ld reduction.  Combined with a beefy slaughtermaster and you have an impressive character wall or use the gruts sickle to get an awesome caster.

Switching from the lord to the hero is what won me many games way back then.  It is nice to have specific tricks up your sleve, but those tricks can be rather costly.

This is a great idea but nearly impossible in the 25% Lord/Hero allowance before (50% makes it more plausible to see these days). Yes, you'd have 327pts, but then you'd still need a BSB (unless you made one of them the BSB, which bumps it to 352pts), but then you're cutting into Firebellies and Butchers (for possible "butcher-tax" if wanted).

If you were intending to have two Bruisers AND a separate BSB, you're looking at a hefty 462pts (before kitting, IIRC), which is a HUGE amount of points for 3 models in any game less than 3k. You could technically run this within the confines of 2k points, but really... so expensive, when, if you want to look at straight numbers...

Tyrant full kit - 322 - 5 S7, WS6, 5W, 1 Stomp

Two Bruisers with kits - 327 - 8 S7, WS5, 8W, 2 Stomps

7 Ironguts w/Champ upgrade - 311 - 13-22 S6 attacks*, WS3, 21W, 3-4 Stomps* *depending on deployment

Statistically speaking, you're still going to do more wounds overall with the Ironguts, unless you're going up against a super-beefed up enemy lord, in which case you're gonna be dead with any of the options above Plus, the difference between S7 and S6 is very little in most scenarios, again with the exception to super-lords or the added exception of 1+armor knights (that extra -1 to armor save could help!).

Ultimately, you're looking for more dice to roll, because more dice is ultimately more odds to succeed. But, at the end of the day, if you're planning on just having more attacks to take care of business (i.e. enemy troops), Ironguts'll win it out in the end. If you're looking for a challenge-monkey, I'd prefer the Tyrant due to the slightly better statline and the ability to really kit out (well, for Ogres, anyway). However, if you want to make the crazy character wall with Beasts-bubbles everywhere, totally do the double (or even triple!) Bruiser list.

Well the list is posted in the army list forum.  The basics of the list was:

Tyrant
BSB
2 Hero casters
7 Ironguts
8 IF Ogres
Sabertusk
3 Leadbelchers
8 Scouting ManEaters
4 Mournfang

Im this list I would be able swap the Tyrant for 2 Bruisers

Well the list is posted in the army list forum.  The basics of the list was:

Tyrant
BSB
2 Hero casters
7 Ironguts
8 IF Ogres
Sabertusk
3 Leadbelchers
8 Scouting ManEaters
4 Mournfang

Im this list I would be able swap the Tyrant for 2 Bruisers

So this is the 2500 point list? That means you have 1250 points available to spend on 5 models (3 bruisers, firebelly, butcher). I guess you can pull that off, but again, do you want to have so many points (roughly between 700-800pts, if I guess correctly) dedicated to the characters? I mean even with the Tyrant, that's still an expensive lot.

Also, keep in mind that our characters are alright, but their strength really comes from all the buff magic that we have available (notably Maw and Beasts, but the others have their place). I've run lists with limited magic and a lot of fighty characters, and every game I felt like I wished I had more buffs to make the characters feel more survivable. But, maybe that's just me, but if you really want this list to work, I'd recommend trying to get Beasts in there so you can hopefully get Savage Beast of Horros (or, if you're playing End Times Magic, at least a strong enough caster to give you a better chance of getting it off).

So, for my personal opinion, I'd swap out the Tyrant and the Firebelly and get a Slaughtermaster of Beasts and your 2nd Bruiser there, using the BSB as your "dual-Bruisers". But, that's just me, if you want to run 5 heroes then go for it! I'm sure it can work as well!

The list itself is for Sweedish Comp.  It comes in near the top of available comp.  This means in a GT normally first and second games are vs armies in my comp range and 3rd to 5th game on average I will have between 1-300 point buffer to work with.

This list comes in at a 13.2. If I swap the Tyrant for a Slaughtermaster it drops to about a 10.5ish.  Thats a 250 swing that I can probably make up with the augments from a lv4 caster.  The problem is elves in general hence the need for Firebelly and his 2 fireballs.

I know its a lot of points in heros but I was already spending those points.  I dont know its just something im throwing around for thoughts.

Go for it.  You get better total stats value and a better comp score to boot.  With a decent slaughter master you can make a nasty character wall and the BSB gets in to boot.

I am inspired by a list like this and will be running off to army builder to set it up.  This is the kind of list that I love to play with; simple, efficient, versatile and smart.

Some times it's just cool to actually field a Tyrant, though. Tyrants get no love this edition!

Wanted to start this discussion myself - now I will add to it instead.

Bruisers are the best combat hero characters for points in the game. They just plain and simply rock. Give them a 4+ ward and a great weapon and go to town. Thats like 165points (190 if bsb), and they just dont die, and their nice 4 S7 attacks make our deadly cavalry, mon. cavalry foes and most characters shiver in fear. Name me a combat character in that point range, which is better for points... another good build is sword of striking/enchanted shield/talisman of endurance

If you compare them to tyrants, its easy to see that two bruisers are much better. The stat-lines dont lie... ofcourse you might want to go for the leadership9 and 100p item allowance. I am not saying tyrants are bad, mind you. I am just saying bruisers are immensely costeffective.

And a comparison with ironguts makes no sense. Adding another 4 ironguts to your unit wont make it strike harder, since the first two ranks were already filled. It only really adds wounds, unless you want to go horde, which brings all sorts of problems with it. Wounds you pay 14 points for, with only Ws3, T4 and 5+ AS. Thats ridicously fragile... even the weakest units kill ironguts in droves!

But put a couple of bruisers with 4+ ward in the front line of an irongut unit, and let the fun begin. I have seen cavalry stars, wild riders, monsters, monstreous cavalry bounce right of that.

Combine that with that out best caster choice (the firebelly) is also hero level, I was delighted to see the changes to 50% hero allowance.

I think my new character setup is going to be:

Firebelly, GW, lvl2, Rock Eye, Power Stone, Lore of Fire - 189 Pts.
Firebelly, GW, lvl2, Scroll, Lore of Fire - 189 Pts.
Firebelly, GW, Hellheart, Lore of Fire - 179 Pts.
Bruiser, GW, HA, Talisman of Preservation, BSB - 190 Pts.
Bruiser, General, GW, Armour of Destiny - 166 Pts.

Comes to 913 points, and it should be pretty formidable.