Flying Slaughtermaster

Hi everybody!

I was thinking about trying the death slaughtermaster on carpet to see if he's competitive in the new meta (lots of strong characters) but I would like first to get a few first impressions on my list before I play it. I am playing very often under ETC restrictions.

ETC Draft 1.1 2015 - ogres restrictions
May select up to 10 choices from the pool below:
First Ironblaster - 1 choice
Second Ironblaster – 6 choices
The Hellheart - 2 choices
The Runemaw, Dispel Scroll, Crown of Command, Standard of Disc - 1 choice each
Each unit of maneaters with either sniper and /or stubborn – 1 choice
1 or more sabretusks in the army - 1 choice
1 or more Slaughtermasters in the army – 1 choice
Each unit of gnoblars after the second – 1 choice
Each 4 mounfang (or part there of) in the army – 1 choice
Each character after the third – 2 choices
Skragg - 1 choice (for being a slaughtermaster)
May take any Ogres Special Characters
(For every army: choosing death magic = Standard of disc. forbidden)

The list
General: Tyrant: GW, 5+/4++, OTS
Slaughtermaster: Lev4, lore of death, 4++, ens. shield, GW, carpet
Bruiser: BSB, 5++, GW
Butcher: lev1, lore of great maw, GW, Dispell scroll
9 Ironguts: FC, lichebone pendant
2x3 Ogers: ironfist
2 Mournfangs: ironfist, heavy armor, Musician
6 Maneaters: Pair of pistols, Musician, SB with 1 Ld reroll, Poison, Scouts
3x1 Sabertusk
1 Ironblaster

A few thoughts on the list 
- Flying Death Mage is always a strong choice in terms of taking death magic's maximal power
- Ld8 on the Death Mage looks dangerous...
- Keep the mage around the IG unit at the beginning and then try to fly the mage around the maneaters and then behind the lines could be an interesting idea
- The IG unit looks strong and the characters inside are difficult to kill with death snipes
- Flying Purple Sun is just broken

Do you think is this list worth a try? Could it be competitive against top armies like WoC with 3-4 flying characters/units?

I have some experience with comp systems but not with my Ogres so i will give this ago. I am unsure if you gain a bonus from taking under the 10 choices. My advice is based on maxing the 10 choices available to you

The list
General: Tyrant: GW, 5+/4++, OTS
You have a Level 4 death mage so i dont think you need this character hurting other characters but beating up on normal rank and file troops. For this i suggest this build; GW, Heavy armour, Trickster's helm, Talisman of preservation

Slaughtermaster: Lev4, lore of death, 4++, ens. shield, GW, carpet
I like this, it has been discussed here plenty of times. I suggest you grab armour of destiny here and an ironfist for a better save

Bruiser: BSB, 5++, GW
I am not sure on points cost here but i would like to see Crown of command here and the dragonbane gem (to stand up to those flaming units)

Butcher: lev1, lore of great maw, GW, Dispell scroll
Compulsory, Ruby ring of ruin could be nice if the points allow it

9 Ironguts: FC, lichebone pendant
Solid choice here. Standard of Discipline over the pennant

2x3 Ogers: ironfist
Ogre Darts are usually considered better with additional hand weapon

2 Mournfangs: ironfist, heavy armor, Musician
I like these

6 Maneaters: Pair of pistols, Musician, SB with 1 Ld reroll, Poison, Scouts
I think you need the banner of eternal flame here to grant you some way of removing regeneration

3x1 Sabertusk
Good

1 Ironblaster
Kinda compulsory, never going to afford taking the 2nd

I hope i have shown some light on this. I would love to here your thoughts

Hi Minigiant! Thanks for your reply! First of all I don't get any bonus from taking under 10 choices but I didn't see which choices could bring this list more competitive. I will go quickly trough your advices:

You have a Level 4 death mage so i dont think you need this character hurting other characters but beating up on normal rank and file troops. For this i suggest this build; GW, Heavy armour, Trickster's helm, Talisman of preservation

In the current ETC metagame there are plenty of strong characters. A few examples are Dark elves (2-3 characters on Pegasus with 1+/3++ or 4++), WoC (1-2 guys on disk, Demon prince, 1-2 chimera), High elves (big boss on fire Pegasus, 1-2 others mounted lord or heros)... So a tyrant who is able to challenge them will be usefull.

I like this, it has been discussed here plenty of times. I suggest you grab armour of destiny here and an ironfist for a better save

I do prefer to get the ensorceled shield to save me from the first canon shot (because a few army like ogres or deamon lacks of light shooting and they have just got a canon or two) and I really like the GW which could allow me to get some interesting charges at some point in the game! I would consider your option (because of the nice 4+/4++ against light shooting) but I think it is not possible to wear an ironfist AND a GW so I have to choose the GW.

I am not sure on points cost here but i would like to see Crown of command here and the dragonbane gem (to stand up to those flaming units)

This looks good but I don't like my BSB getting death sniped early in the game. That happens to me last game vs Beastmen on 1 spirit Leach --'. I think the Stubborn spell from Great Maw could be used for this purpose. I have a lot of scary spells in the lore of the death so in my opinon there is few probability that my opponent will dispell this one. I will put the dragonbane gem on the butcher and keep my 5+ ward save on the BSB.

9 Ironguts: FC, lichebone pendant
Solid choice here. Standard of Discipline over the pennant

right but unfortunately not allowed according current ETC rules (I mentionned it in my first post).

Ogre Darts are usually considered better with additional hand weapon

Ok I make the change!

6 Maneaters: Pair of pistols, Musician, SB with 1 Ld reroll, Poison, Scouts
I think you need the banner of eternal flame here to grant you some way of removing regeneration

I have already tried it several times but I don't like to offer an easy possibility to my opponent to break them. A flying character with 2+ ward against flaming will eat this 400 pts unit without problems...

I hope i have shown some light on this. I would love to here your thoughts

Sure thanks for your inputs!

You make some really good points, i want to just challenge your thoughts on some of them

In the current ETC metagame there are plenty of strong characters. A few examples are Dark elves (2-3 characters on Pegasus with 1+/3++ or 4++), WoC (1-2 guys on disk, Demon prince, 1-2 chimera), High elves (big boss on fire Pegasus, 1-2 others mounted lord or heros)... So a tyrant who is able to challenge them will be usefull.

All the characters/monsters you mention are all flying which means you are never going to be able to engage the unit on your terms against a good opponent so i would still build my tyrant for survivability. If it is the OTS you are after then drop down to the talisman of endurance to fit it in

I do prefer to get the ensorceled shield to save me from the first canon shot (because a few army like ogres or deamon lacks of light shooting and they have just got a canon or two) and I really like the GW which could allow me to get some interesting charges at some point in the game! I would consider your option (because of the nice 4+/4++ against light shooting) but I think it is not possible to wear an ironfist AND a GW so I have to choose the GW.

Ah charmed shield i get it now. A good opponent will just strip it with a few light shots before the cannon comes in. Can still take my build without the ironfist and a GW instead

I have already tried it several times but I don't like to offer an easy possibility to my opponent to break them. A flying character with 2+ ward against flaming will eat this 400 pts unit without problems...

If your experience tells you this does not work thats fine but i do think you need to find a place for flaming attacks somewhere in this army. A way to strip regeneration is important in the tournament scene. This of course depends on your meta but mine is filled with Hellpit Abominations, Troll Hordes, regenerating Chimeras. As a thought as you arent taking the Crown of Command what about the Ruby Ring on your Butcher. That might be a solution

Thanks for your reply! Challenge accepted

All the characters/monsters you mention are all flying which means you are never going to be able to engage the unit on your terms against a good opponent so i would still build my tyrant for survivability. If it is the OTS you are after then drop down to the talisman of endurance to fit it in

You are right but in my opinon this was the best way to deal with them: Lev4 Death, 1-2 canon, Strong General. At one point if the opponent want to score a lot of points against me he'll have to go versus my IG unit because there is a lot of victory points there: 297 tyrant + 171 BSB + killing them 200 + 432 iron guts + butcher 139.

I will follow your advice and go on this build: GW, HA, talisman of pres., dragon helm, OTS.
with 4+/4++/2++/ 5W he should capable of surviving long enough

Ah charmed shield i get it now. A good opponent will just strip it with a few light shots before the cannon comes in. Can still take my build without the ironfist and a GW instead

Deal!

If your experience tells you this does not work thats fine but i do think you need to find a place for flaming attacks somewhere in this army. A way to strip regeneration is important in the tournament scene. This of course depends on your meta but mine is filled with Hellpit Abominations, Troll Hordes, regenerating Chimeras. As a thought as you arent taking the Crown of Command what about the Ruby Ring on your Butcher. That might be a solution

You're right but the problem is that the maneaters play an important role in my gameplan as long as I have only a few strong units. I can't afford the risk to lose them in that way...

The ruby ring will take out regen only for the magic phase which will not be long enough to take advantage from it. A good opponent will not let the fireball & spirit Leach pass through on the same target (for example chimera). I tried the ruby ring in my last turnament but I was very disapointed with it...

I can't find a good way to get flaming attacks in my list... In my opinion the best weapon against regen is the firebelly but I can't afford adding a firebelly. He would be too expensive because I would have to remove either 2 Maneaters or the 2 Mournfangs. Is it worth it? I'm not sure...

The only way I see would be to reduce the Maneaters from 6 to 3-4 models, give them flaming attaks, and add some mournfangs with the points left. Then the maneaters would be less importants and only play the "anti-regen" role but they will flee on average 40% of the time at the first death. But 216 pts for 6 flaming shots seems pretty expensive. And the first character charging will deal with them easily. Which is not the case with 6 guys...

What solution would you choose?

Hi everybody! I've changed my mind about the flying slaughtermaster who is probably too risky (Ld8, purple sun with I3, combat ability). I'll rather put my tyrant on the carpet! I've changed also a few things in order to match with the new gameplan.

First of all here is the list:
 
General: Tyrant: GW, Tasliman of preservation, arabian carpet
Brusier: BSB, GW, Runemaw
Butcher: lev2, lore of great maw, dispell scroll
Butcher: lev 2, lore of beast, hellheart

9 Ironguts: standard of disc, FC, look-out-gnoblar
3 Ogres: add. HW
28 Gnoblars
8 Maneaters: 4 add. HW, Stand. (with 1 Ld reroll), Mus., scouts, stubborn
3x1 Gorger
3x1 Sabertusk
1 Ironblaster

So as you've seen many things have changed. The idea here is to put a lot of pressure very quickly on the opponent by combining charges between the tyrant and IG/maneaters/gorgers.

In this list the magic play a secondary role. The anti-magic power of this list (Dispell Scroll, Hellheart, Runemaw) should be strong enough to keep most of my troups alive before combat. My own magic will only be a little nice bonus to the combat phases. I don't need my magic to make a lot of damages to the ennemy before combat.

Btw I still don't have any anti-regen stuff. I'll try to play without it and see how it works.

Any comments about this list? I'm quite happy about it so I'm gonna try it soon!

Looks like a lot of fun! 3 gorgers, a flying tyrant, and scouting maneaters sounds crazy,  I love it haha. I think I'll have to try that flying tyrant soon.
What's the plan with those gnoblars?

Yes it looks fun! My idea was to put the gnoblars somewhere near my IG unit and block something anoying for 1-2 turns. I'm going to try it soon in order to see if it works!

I have already tried several times 3x10 gnoblars but they were useless in a "going-forward" list

I really like that second list.  Only change I would contemplate would be putting a GW on the Maneaters Standard Bearer.  You loose 2 Str5 attacks but will always have 4 Str7 attacks to help deal with armor.  Your GW cannot be singled out, so unless your unit is wiped to the man or it breaks you will have those Str7 attacks.

Thanks for the nice idea!

I think i prefer the first list still. Mainly because with your second list your general is highly exposed and not contributing his leadership to your main line.

I must add that I do like the Gorgers though in the second list

When is some test games?

I'm still hesitating about the list I should play. I don't think I'm gonna use the flying death slaughtermaster because he's very risky:
- Ld 8
- Purple sun misscast
- Combat abilities

That's why I'm planing to test the second list on the 1st of january. I've just one last hesitation. Here is the part of the list which I don't plan to change:

General: Tyrant: GW, Tasliman of preservation, arabian carpet
Butcher: lev2, lore of great maw, dispell scroll
Butcher: lev 2, lore of beast, hellheart
9 Ironguts: stand. of disc. FC
30 Gnoblars
3 Bulls with add. HW
8 Maneaters
1 Ironblaster
3x1 sabertusks

My hesitation is the following:
1. 2x2 Mournfangs with muso + 8 Maneaters stubborn stand. of swiftness, swiftstride, muso + BSB GW
2. 3x1 gorgers + 8 Maneaters scouts stubborn glemming pennant, muso + BSB with runemaw

these 2 options are 2 complete different gaming style. In the first one everybody is starting on the same line and goes forward together. The tyrant flies to combo charges when the opponent is near. On the second one it is a list which put a lot of pressure on the opponent. The tyrant tries to combo charges too and he's flying away already on turn 2 to help the maneaters.

Which option do you prefer? Which one is the most competitive?

I will try to do a battlereport (fight on the first of january)

Brusier: BSB, GW, Runemaw

Hi everybody! I finally have chosen my versatile list for the ETC comp team tournament I played in february. The list didn't achieve my goals and I was too depending on the double ironblaster performances.

That's why I would like to try at least a few test games with my original idea "Flying Death SM". If it works well I will bring it to my next ETC comp tournament in april.

Here is my actual build idea:

General: Tyrant: Sword of anti-heroes, 3+/4++, OTS
Slaughtermaster: lvl4 death, ironfist, great weapon, AoD, Arabian Carpet
Bruiser: BSB, GW, Talisman of protection
Butcher: ironfist, lvl 2 great maw, DS
9 Ironguts: FC, lichebone pennant
2x3 Ogres: add HW
3x1 Sabretusk
3 Mournfangs: 2+/pary, muso
2x2 Mournfangs: 2+/pary, muso
1 Ironblaster

The MSU Hybrid approach is the one who suits the most my playing environment. There are not a lot of big unit but many flying unit, solo character.

I put the 6+ WS on the BSB in order to get a 5+ WS against sniping spells. My SM should be able to deal with smalls units & warmachines with 4 Str 6 Attaks while having a 4+/4++ against shooting. I just figured out this week while playing my chaos dwarf how strong was a flying death mage.

I choose the sword of anti-heroes because the main threat for my Gutstar is characters. So I should be able to get 6 Str 6 attaks in most of the important fights.

Lvl 2 on the butcher in order to get some buffs in combat phases and to keep some magic / anti-magic level if my SM gets killed early in the game (shit happens ).

I will do a first test game ASAP and give you some feed-back

It is a nice list, i look forward to reading your feedback from games

I maybe missing something but are you only using 3 of your allotted 5 choices; 2 for your Slaughtermaster and from your Ironblaster

you are right but I don't see a way to get a better list by using more choices:

- Crown of Command: I am not a crown of command fan. In my opinion a strong unit like Ironguts doesn't need stubborn if you play them right. This is even more the case when you run a tyrant inside the unit.
- Runemaw: I'm not sure the runemaw will be useful. Most of the spells will target either my flying SM or my multiple mournfangs units in priority. AND the runemaw cost a lot of points.
- Hell heart: Well the HH is great but I would a need a 3rd caster to be able to choose it or I must remove the DS. I do prefer the DS which is secure, cheaper and not random like the HH.
- 2nd Ironblaster: would mean drop out the SM...

Great first victory for my ogre list against vampire counts.

His list: 2 vampire lord lvl 1 vampire with quick blood red fury 4+ WS one with sword anti-heroes other with Str 7 and OTS, 1 lvl 4 necro vampire, 1 cairn, 3 small zombies unit, 50 squeletons, 4 mortghast archai, 9 crypt horrors, 3x5 wolfs.

It was a close game. My ironblaster killed 1 mortghast per turn on the first 3 turns! My flying SM death sniped the lvl 4 on turn 2! On turn 4 I charged with 3 ogres on the flanc + my gutstar in the front against the squeleton bloc with both VL Inside! my tyrant challenged the VL with anti-heroes sword. He strikes first and kill me before red fury! 6 attaks 6 wounds 1 saved after reroll = dead! In return I killed his general with ironguts + BSB! Amaizing fight!

On the turn 5 he counter charges on the flanc with the crypt horrors on my gutstar i loose and i flee and got cached. After that i m able to charge and kill the crypt horros with SM, 3 ogres and the IB!

At the end is left:
VC: 1 VL, 10 skeletons, 25 zombies
OK: SM, 3 mournfangs, 2 mournfangs, 1 cat, 2x3 ogres, 1 IB

At the end it's 13-7 for the OK!

Next game: against one of the best players of my country who plays deamon. We fought 3 times against eacher other and he wons all games! I need to win this one! I really like my list! I hope that my tyrant will perform this time!

Well played, good luck on your next game

Nice job!  Good luck vs the daemons.