How would you update the Ogre book?

So i was discussing with friends on what i would do to update the Ogre book. My first point to update is the lack of diversity. In this sense i meant both terms of general army list composition and by terms of the amount of units.

So i thought i would list below my thoughts for each section and here your thoughts and opinions as well as what you would like to see

Special characters:
I think nearly all of us agree all the characters need to significant improvements to their rules but one change would be for Greasus to have the option of the throne or on foot

Lords:

• I would like to see Mournfang, Rhinox options for mounts
• A level 4 firebelly
• No Maw tax and access to all 8 BRB lores

Heroes:

• IDEA! Yeti King - A hero level Yhetee and gives bonuses to the unit it joins, similar to how a warrior priest works in Empire
• Gnoblar head honcho

Core:

• Gnoblar fast cavalry
• Yhetees moved to core, so our three Monstrous infantry units in core are Hammer, Anvil and Fast

Special:

• Dragon Ogres
• Rhinox herders - Gnoblars herding Rhinox towards the enemy, like how War elephants were used in real life

Rare:

• Dragon Ogre Shaggoth

Some pretty rough ideas and i know some of which are because i want to convert them for my own army and include them via count as or storm of magic

What are your thoughts?

I don't like the Dragon Ogres, as Ogres have shown a resistance to Chaos, and I think part of that is not letting Chaos in.

The rest is a good start I think. I would love more gnobler options, as I would love some cheap things to fill in those weird holes you get with an army this expensive per model.

I would like the Stonetusk to be a Tyrant mount as well, plus the Mournfang, or even a Rhinox Drawn Chariot.

I'd like to see a ranged core unit, maybe Gnobler Archers, or gunners?

Truthfully, while the Ogre books is no where near the most powerful, its not exactly in desperate need of a re-write (except in End Times)

So lets just talk about thing things that don't get taken very often.

1) Special Characters: Bragg's terrible, Greasus can't move, Golfag is random and Skrag's allright. It would be nice if they all at least rated as 'playable'

2) No gnoblar hero, while I don't want him to be great, it'd be nice to be able to make a gnoblar focused list for giggles.

3)Butcher Tax: Annoying.

4) Hunters: with 50% heroes, less of an issue, but competition for hero points is high

5) If ogres (bulls) could take a magic banner, the ogres vs irongut conversation would be even tighter.

6) Yhettees don't do anything amazing. Make em skirmishers (fast Cav, really) and they add a new option to the list without really changing anything.

7) Scraplauncher: Give it back large template.

I'm a huge fan of Greasus, his +1CR bubble has saved my bacon plenty of times, as has his stupidity bubble.

That being said, I also really like our book.  The changes I would make:
+1 WS on Yhetees, making them skirmishers removes their ability to disrupt ranks
Mournfang mount option for Bruisers (if not Tyrants)

I might be wrong because I am not overly familiar with a lot of books, but I seem to feel ogres are alone in how few magic banners can be taken.  It seems as most armies are allowed more than just 3 units, and it's not limited to just one of those types per army.  I would like to see that restriction go away

I might be wrong because I am not overly familiar with a lot of books, but I seem to feel ogres are alone in how few magic banners can be taken.  It seems as most armies are allowed more than just 3 units, and it's not limited to just one of those types per army.  I would like to see that restriction go away

Lizards have it worse.  They actually lost a banner between their last book and this one.  Used to be you could have a magic banner on cold one cav, temple guard, and your BSB.  Now it is just the temple guard and the bsb.  So yeah, 2 banners.  Go figure these are the two armies that I play

Magic banners is a bit of a kick in the teeth, especially coming from Dark Elves. Magic Banners are common as muck in Naggaroth it seems.

Mount options for the Lord and Hero choices seems a very reasonable request.

Some more gnoblar variation would be fantastic. Gnobby fast cav is a nice idea, but gnoblars aren't going to be all that in combat or with shooting, so without some nice little special rule or special attack, they will end up being a redirector with a bigger footprint and more points than sabretusks for the same job.

I'd quite like to see two man gnoblar teams with a dynamite launcher or something, similar to skavens warpfire and poison wind mortars. The ogres could easily acquire explosive from Chaos Dwarves, or looted from thinlings in the same way they get hold of leadbelcher cannons.

Alrighty, I'd like to throw some thoughts in!!

1. Big Names on their own points list, not taken from the main magic points. (Like we've been saying for years lol)

2. Character mount options, as have already been mentioned. At least, more than just Hunter/SHorn. Hunter/TTusk, Tyrant/SHorn/MFang/Rhinox, maybe some chariots pulled by Rhinoxen or Mournfangs, etc.?

3. Gnoblar characters, as have already been mentioned. Although giving them their own wizard/lore would be too Orcs-n-Goblins-esque, so maybe just fat gnoblars of the Maw ;P (hey, Tooth gnoblars used to hang with the Butchers, maybe they could pick up a spell or two from them??)

4. Maybe not access to all lores of magic (as that'd be overpowered with Light-Ogres everywhere! I'd just run Light and Metal to deal with our two biggest counterpoints ), but definitely a better LotGM 6th-spell (At least make the Maw an instant-kill or something?!?! With no repercussions as you always roll a misfire when it counts lol).

5. A Sky Titan special character on par with the End Times super-lords. I'd love to see a model to feature those ancient foes of the Ogres... maybe one that was enslaved or beaten into service like Giants were...?

5a. Or any good special characters, for that matter. Or maybe just updating the hero-level ones to making them a little more worth taking (Golgfag, even if you roll 120pts on his 2d6 chart, still is an overcosted Bruiser, and Bragg's WAYYYYYY worse...). I think Skrag's alright, and I honestly think Greasus can work if you tailor the list to his skillset (i.e. gunline, sit back and make 'em stupid-walk towards you, etc.).

6. Reverting the Scraplauncher's template to big, and reverting the Yhetee's aura to -1 to hit instead of -1 to WS. And maybe give the Yhetee's a little more defense, but if you fixed the aura I'd think that'd be fine enough.

7. Either a Lord-level firebelly (as has already been mentioned), and/or Fire Beetle mounts for the Firebellies (maybe even Fire Beetle chariots? I feel like they're a nice little piece of fluff that's been completely overlooked).

8. Ogre Pit Fighters/Gladiators. I know this one was an idea that I have now shameless stolen from one of the Stronghold's senior members, but I really think these could be a fun Rare unit; give them access to double Iron-fist (5+/rerollable 6++, and AHW), Frenzy, and maybe some other unique cheeky rules to have them be able to stand out, like perhaps any of them can take a challenge, etc.

9. (Not a book change but) an official Bruiser BSB model. Not that it matters, as I already have a BSB, but it'd be more encouraging for newer players who don't want to have to convert an essential piece of the army.

---

Alrighty, hope this helps add fuel to the thought processes of our dreams!

I like the idea of making a Hunter a special unit. I want to field one so bad, but it's hard to fit him in!

A lot of people have posted ideas that I like: mount options for lords and heroes, firebelly lord, get rid of the maw tax, etc.

I would like our core beefed up a little bit.  Gnoblar fast cav (maybe riding pigs?  They are both effective and snacks!), or maybe gnoblar skirmishers.  Ogres and ironguts are great, but there is little reason to take gnoblars.  Since we have to fill up core somehow, most lists end up looking the same.  Also, a magic banner option for ogres would be great.  They are the weaker option to take due to lack of banner.

I like the idea of a yhetee master (hero level, maybe?  Lord?  I suppose it depends).  Make him work like Hellebron: take him and yhetees are now core.  I'm not sure if I would change anything else about yhetees, though.  While -1 to hit would be nice, I like the weapon skill drop.  It means that you get to auto-hit everything if they fail a fear test.  It has nice synergy with death and heavens magic.

Last thing I would like to change is to give impact hits to thundertusks.  I get not having impact hits on yhetees and gorgers, as they are smaller, but why is a massive warbeast tiptoeing gracefully up to a block of clanrats and bowing politely before engaging in mortal combat?

I'd like to see the revival of the ogre clubs special rule (Perhaps renamed to something cool like "cleave") and obviously more gnoblar units- A hero and one more unit in the very least.

Don't talk to me about magic banners. I was a Beastman player once.

ONE UNIT in the entire army had the option. ONE.



Anyways, back to stuff that needs fixing...

1) Special characters. Whilst ours aren't terribad most of the time, they're not great. Skrag is fine I feel, though I think he could make Gorgers cheaper. Bit hard to spam something that's that cost and of average ability.

Golgfag should also be cheaper - you're kind of already paying for the 'free' magic items through his points costs...
Bragg sucks. He just.... sucks. A magic halberd that gives HKB in a challenge isn't really all that on a basic Bruiser.
Greasus just needs M6 and that's literally it. Well, maybe an extra attack.

2) Better magic weapons. The old Thundermace and Siegebreaker were miles better than the current ones.

3) Give Yhetees something to make them worthwhile - Honestly, they'd be fantastic if one unit could be taken as Core or something. I like LawGnome's idea of a character to make them core, as they'd be fantastic in that regard.

4) Gnoblar Cav, because why the hell not.

5) Firebelly Lord - I'd personally like this to be a special character, since I don't feel there's a lot of room on that one mountain for so many leaders. Plus, could have more funky fire-themed gear!

6)A buff to Ogre Great Weapons. Seriously, am I expected to believe that the weedy Elves carrying those puny axes or swords or whatever are the same strength as an Ogre swinging a club the size of a tree? Monstrous Infantry with Great Weapons should be looking at +3 to strength really.

7)Rhinox Riders as a rare choice. Destruction incarnate baby.

8)Mount options for other characters. Mournfang, Rhinoxen, Stonehorns, Thundertusks, etc - it just makes sense!

9) No Butcher Tax. Duh.

1. Special characters
2. Gnoblar fast cav with/on sabretusks
3. No butcher tax

I echo what has been said here.  Id also like 2 things:

Ironfist option for ManEaters and characters can join ManEaters and aquire their special rules.  Maybe just one character.  Or hell a regular ManEater hero level character that is not a special character who can join the unit prior to deployment.

I echo what has been said here.  Id also like 2 things:

Ironfist option for ManEaters and characters can join ManEaters and aquire their special rules.  Maybe just one character.  Or hell a regular ManEater hero level character that is not a special character who can join the unit prior to deployment.

While they've largely done away with that sort of thing, a Big Name for BTDT would be awesome.  Make it so he can only join a unit of Maneaters that shares his BTDT rules.

I would love some sort of option to give a unit of Ironguts +1 WS if the army is led by a Tyrant for a small points cost.  This game needs some fluffy things into it badly.  Ironblaster point increase, make it more unreliable somehow.  Point adjustments across the board.

Mournfang option for Tyrant and Bruiser is the first thing that comes to mind.

I echo what has been said here.  Id also like 2 things:

Ironfist option for ManEaters and characters can join ManEaters and aquire their special rules.  Maybe just one character.  Or hell a regular ManEater hero level character that is not a special character who can join the unit prior to deployment.

While they've largely done away with that sort of thing, a Big Name for BTDT would be awesome.  Make it so he can only join a unit of Maneaters that shares his BTDT rules.

Ha, that'd be awesome! The Big Name "Tall-Tale" (or "Tale-Spinner") which allows him to have the shared BTDT rules of one Maneater unit that he joins! Nothing like a tooled-up Tyrant scouted or vanguarded right up into your opponents' grills!

I echo what has been said here.  Id also like 2 things:

Ironfist option for ManEaters and characters can join ManEaters and aquire their special rules.  Maybe just one character.  Or hell a regular ManEater hero level character that is not a special character who can join the unit prior to deployment.

While they've largely done away with that sort of thing, a Big Name for BTDT would be awesome.  Make it so he can only join a unit of Maneaters that shares his BTDT rules.

Ha, that'd be awesome! The Big Name "Tall-Tale" (or "Tale-Spinner") which allows him to have the shared BTDT rules of one Maneater unit that he joins! Nothing like a tooled-up Tyrant scouted or vanguarded right up into your opponents' grills!

SO many awesome idea's coming out here and I agree with so many!  This option would be amazing though!  I would really love to see the magic weapons sorted out mostly myself.  Weapons worth 85pts with ASL allowing no true amount of protection to the character is just silly.

And a large kit SKY TITAN!  Yes.  I still want this bad!  Armour and all!  It would be a good challenge from a sculpting point of view so much.  Gimme gimme gimme. 

I would like to see some giant changes myself.  Maybe T6 or some form of damage mitigation.  If not then a price drop perhaps.  But I don't think this will be the case sadly. 

Kind regards Zolas.

A buff to Ogre Great Weapons. Seriously, am I expected to believe that the weedy Elves carrying those puny axes or swords or whatever are the same strength as an Ogre swinging a club the size of a tree? Monstrous Infantry with Great Weapons should be looking at +3 to strength really.

Dead on my son, why do Orcs get the choppa rule with their midget letter openers where as Ogres wield a gigantic monster of a sword and it counts as a normal hand weapon?

Since all casters essentially have Loremaster now, there needs to be something to differentiate Butchers from Slaughtermasters;so how about the Slaughtermaster gets an additional Lore for XX pts in addition to the LotGM.
This would have the added bonus of satisfying the Butcher's Tax without forcing you to use a Maw Butcher to give the Slaughtermaster the Heaven's Lore. Fluff wise, it also makes a bit more sense that a Slaughtermaster knows LotGM.

Bring back the Ogre Clubs rule, even if it's called "Ogre Weapons". Make it an army wide rule that is in addition to whatever rules exist for the weapon they are using, so Hand weapons get it, and so do Great Weapons, and even magic weapons.

Aside from those, all the standard already listed changes should be considered, ie. Lord Firebelly, Big Names separated from item points, character mounts, more units to choose from, etc.

I'm still fairly new to the army, but there's a couple things that I would change given the opportunity.

1) Big Names. Good Maw, the Big Names. There's maybe two I'd consider out of the entire list, and that just isn't right. This should be a decent way of adding some additional character to an army, but instead feels like it'd be a lot of wasted points. To focus on one in particular, I'd much rather Brawlerguts had been one additional impact hit (D3+1 for a successful Ogre charge) as opposed to rerolling To Wounds of a successful impact hit.

2) Magic weapons. The two we have available aren't very good, certainly not for 85 points. While I only know it by reputation, I'd like to see the return of the Tenderizer or something similar. An 85 point weapon capable of a one hit kill is a far better investment in my mind then one that strikes against an enemies initiative. Equipping that would shoot the danger level of a Tyrant WAY up. That said, I have a friend assembling a Dwarf army, and the Siegebreaker could be fairly funny in that instance.

3) Characters that people would honestly want to take. I can't say anything that hasn't been said on this site, and other forums.

4) This one is more an idea then anything, and I got the idea off the old save of Greasus. I found out from one stronghold article that his old save used to be a save against non-magical ranged attacks. While terrible for a rather pricey named character model, as an army wide special rule, it could work rather well. I'm not 100% sure how the wording of the rule would work, but as I said, it's an idea.

While there may be others, I will need more experience before I can comment on them fairly. The above mentioned access to all eight of the BRB lores doesn't seem like the best thing to me. It just doesn't feel like it fits the character of the army to me, Ogres being considerably more about stomping then about magic. I'd also ask a couple questions, if I may. First, if someone is willing to tell me how the Tenderizer and the Ogre Clubs rule works, I'd be grateful for the information. Second, Elves with GW hit as hard as Ogres? Seriously?

Now, if you pardon me, I need to get a snack...

Last book - Tenderizer was a magical great weapon that did d3 wounds for 50 pts iirc, ogre clubs just gave armor piercing, but could not be combined with AHW or IF.

Hmm, most of these have been said in some way but i guess I'd like the following:

More big names, more able to take them and not counting towards magic items allowance

Magic weapons rewrite - current ones are terribad - no idea why they were priced so high really. If they were half the price they would not be high on my list.

More Core Options - Just 2 ogre units? Add in some more units such as the pitfighters mentioned

Irongut guard unit - Ironguts with other weapon options, WS4 and new models

Mounts as we all want them for the characters

Gnoblars: more as we all want

K

I'd like to see Ironguts with a 4+ armour save at least, I realise Ogres are not really designed to have high survivability via their armour, but a little extra protection which helps differentiate Ironguts from Ironfist Bulls would not be unwelcome I don't think.

And speaking of Ironguts, whilst a bonus to the Strength of Great Weapons in the hands of Ogres would be nice, it might be more interesting if their general burliness meant they could use Great Weapons at their own Initiative rather than gaining Always Strikes Last. Given their generally low initative I don't think this would be particularly imbalanced whilst still being flavourful.

And speaking of Ironguts, whilst a bonus to the Strength of Great Weapons in the hands of Ogres would be nice, it might be more interesting if their general burliness meant they could use Great Weapons at their own Initiative rather than gaining Always Strikes Last. Given their generally low initative I don't think this would be particularly imbalanced whilst still being flavourful.

I like that idea, a lot. The size and strength of ogres is poorly reflected when they are matched in stats by other core troops eg Saurus. Considering an ogre toothpick is bigger than a standard handweapon, they really should have some sort of extra bonus for the size and brutality of their weaponry.

There are two things from the old book i would like to return. Gnoblar trapper skirmisher unit and 1+ unit size for maneaters. i loved to run single maneaters as a mini-heroes running around shooting enemy light cavalry/lone heroes with handguns.

You know what?  Give me a lord level Hunter if we are doing this 50% allowance crap. 

this 50% allowance crap. 

Naw man. I think the 50% allowance is the best thing thats ever happened to Herohamer, hopefully 9th will allow us to play Samurai Vampires that are level 4 Wizards in the form of 15 year old school girls. ^o^ ^-^ =D '.' ¥!!!!

http://www.meeplemart.com/resize/Shared/Images/Product/Anima-Tactics-Wissenschaft-Rayne/Rayne.jpg?
Already have the mini picked out for that

Honestly, I'm really enjoying having a level 4 of beasts and a level 4 of maw. 

Just gimme some more gnoblar-themed stuff.  Especially a gnoblar special character, and/or an ogre can join gnoblars (the gnoblar whisperer)

http://www.meeplemart.com/resize/Shared/Images/Product/Anima-Tactics-Wissenschaft-Rayne/Rayne.jpg?
Already have the mini picked out for that

Honestly, I'm really enjoying having a level 4 of beasts and a level 4 of maw. 

Just gimme some more gnoblar-themed stuff.  Especially a gnoblar special character, and/or an ogre can join gnoblars (the gnoblar whisperer)

I bought a few models from that range once, in particular this nutter for a Dark Eldar: http://atoracle.wdfiles.com/local--files/es-ophiel/02%20-%20Ophiel.jpg

But I was always put off by the occasional bit of weirdness, like how the Cordelia Rosalind model has the back half of her dress removable so you can paint her underwear. Didn't help we had a loli fan in our wargaming group *shudders*


Anyways! Gnoblar heroes would be very welcome. Maybe they could have a rule like Tomb King herald ones, where they can take hits for designated Tyrants?

Look I'm on the boat with several things.

- Armour piercing weapon rule for all OGRES.

- More Gnoblar units, including a character.

- A lord level firebelly (particularly because the end times rules may not be included in 9th edition)

- Something to make Yhetees worth taking.

- Something to make Gorgers a little bit more worth taking.

@psychichobo
not to derail the post, but I collected 20+ of these models before the rules were even translated into english, purely for their looks.  They're among the best metal models I've ever seen, and Cordelia is the best Vindicare Assassin I've ever used   The game itself is actually a very fun squad-based game too.

@OP
I've always been 'meh' towards yetis, so I can't comment as to their rules.  Give the Tyrant more options to make him original.  Specifically, give my Tyrant a leadbelcher cannon!

I've always liked the concept of Yhetees... However I have felt given the impression left about them in real world human mythology that they might be bigger, stronger than an Ogre and crunch wise more like that in a stats/ rules to a Gorger. I just think that a bigger, broader shaggy white furred loner of a brute, fits in far better than a gangly crew of anorexic monkies.

Also, KOIDS GLOYPS JOYGS CHOKK JONG GOK HOYWOY! YOYKIES BLORX! as well as kill everyone.

The problem with Yhetees is that they don't really have a purpose. They used to be the Ogre equivalent of cavalry, but they lack speed AND armour.

If they ever changed the skirmisher rules back to the simple 7th ed ones that didn't require having to awkwardly measure every skirmisher unit (seriously who thought that would be a good idea WHY) then Yhetees having that rule could be interesting. There's no logical reason for them to be ranked up anyways.

Plus, special character Jhared the Red making them core. Hell yes.

One simple thing would make Yhetees usable without changing anything else, and that's giving them Ambush. I would pay 44 points a model for Monstrous Infantry that could appear from my opponents board edge.

I would hope that we FINALLY get official and legal Rhinox Rider rules that don't get yanked out from under us. I want to use my expensive Forge World models dammit!

It goes without saying of course that Tyrants and Bruisers should have Mournfang and/or Rhinox mounts as an option.

Other updates:

1) Allow Tyrants and Bruisers to purchase Ogre Pistols in addition to other gear, like an Ironfist.

2) Separate Big Name allowance(maybe if we bellow loud enough GW will hear us), even if we were only allowed 1 Big Name.

3) Remove the limitation on magic banners. It was a stupid idea when it was first put in, its a stupid idea now.

4) Bring back the TENDERIZER!!! And reduce the cost of the other fracking magic weapons, nothing is worth 85 points.


Just a bitter old Ogre player returning from a long march across the Old World.

1) Allow Tyrants and Bruisers to purchase Ogre Pistols in addition to other gear, like an Ironfist.

Bruisers and Tyrants CAN take Ogre Pistols, or even a brace of them, under their kit options. Or have I misunderstood something?

1) Allow Tyrants and Bruisers to purchase Ogre Pistols in addition to other gear, like an Ironfist.

Bruisers and Tyrants CAN take Ogre Pistols, or even a brace of them, under their kit options. Or have I misunderstood something?

Think he means to have the pistols as extra to the gear.  Normally you can only take 1 option.  Alot of people would love it if you could give the a great weapon or a magic weapon and still have the pistols as extra.

Kind regards Zolas. 

Exactly.

I would love to have pistols if I could swap for a GW if I wanted. Or also have an Ironfist so I'd have that extra armor in melee(If I had a magic weapon to supersede the XHW)

Oh, I thought you could do....

Can't you take various mundane equipment, but if you choose to fight with, say, the GW in combat you cant get the ironfist save, but would be able to use it vs shooting etc. There are certainly units that come with conflicting equipment, temple guard for example (shields & halberds). I thought it was just magic items with the "Im using this one" rule.

However, I'm not doubting that you are correct as my game knowledge is patchy at best!

No. It says "may choose to be armed with one of the following,"

Give Yhetees Frenzy and Scout.

Drop Snowblower and Storm horn cost by 50 each.

Remove Butcher tax.

Change Hellheart back to the old version (either side miscasts on any doubles for a turn) for 30 points.

Change Scrap Launcher to S2 no armor save for the entire template, S4 d3 MW under hole.

Drop gorger cost to about 70 points but move them to rare and cap unit size at one.

Correct Golfag's rules.

Bring back the Tenderizer at 55 points.

Dump the armor loophole for casters.

Most of the other balance issues can be sorted out in the main rulebook updates.

No. It says "may choose to be armed with one of the following,"

So it does. I was getting a bit mixed up with the DE book, where melee, ranged and shields for Dreadlords/Masters are all under separate listings and so a viable combo. Apologies.

No. It says "may choose to be armed with one of the following,"

So it does. I was getting a bit mixed up with the DE book, where melee, ranged and shields for Dreadlords/Masters are all under separate listings and so a viable combo. Apologies.

I think you might still not be able to use your shield though, as you can't opt to use the Hand Weapon if you have a special melee weapon ("I'm using this one" applies to those too, unless you have multiple special weapons)

You get it against shooting, just not melee.

Its why Chaos Warriors with Halberds and Shields exist. They have 3+ against shooting, but Str5 in melee(only 4+ though)

Its why you can take a mundane ranged weapon and still use it even though you have a magic melee weapon. You can't use a magic weapon at range, so you can use the regular weapon.

As long as you take the Pistols as the mundane weapon/item choice, then you can give your guy the enchanted shield and a magic weapon, and still use them all.

Higher WS overall, we're picking up and putting down huge lumps of wood and steel, hard to stop, easy to land, also lead beltchers in core, get rid of a lot of the current special and switch in more oger-y things, better big names with their own slot in profiles, so not 100pts of big names and magic items, but 100pts magic items with a seprate allowance for big names

I agree on most assessments, although I think updates should also balance ogres the other way - not only make them stronger:

+ Special chars need to be sorted out.
+ Tyrants need a tenderizer or other magic weapon to make them monsters in CC
- slaughtermasters and butchers shouldnt be allowed armour
+ stupid butcher tax needs to go away.
- firebellies should have cost increase
+ bruisers and tyrant should have mount options.
- single sabres are silly... they should only be in packs.
+ ...but we should have core gnoblar light cavalry...
+ normal ogres should have 25p magic banner
- mournfang cav point increase
- Maneaters should only be able to pick one special rule...
+ ...but they should have fists as equipment options
- ironblaster needs to lose that reroll and go to T5, but maybe get a slight point decrease.
+ yetties point decrease.
+ scraplauncher big template S3 AP, S6 AP D3 wounds in middle
+ The two big monsters need to go to 8 wounds
- hellheart needs to be modified. Its too good.
+ rhinox cavalry back as rare (but with balanced rules)

Those changes would make my day.

I love the idea of a gnoblar hero, and the gnoblar fast cavalry (maybe riding fangweasels?). It's just adorable!

How about some flying skirmishers or similar, with a flock of blood vultures?

Or even have gnoblars trying to ride the vultures?

... I just want gnoblars trying to ride stuff, I'm sorry...

Drop the Hunters points cost a bit.

Update the big names making them better costed.

Update our books Magic items making magic weapons viable.

Reduce Thundertusk and Stonehorns costs slightly.

Bring back skirmishing and/or scouting gnoblars.

Halfling Hot pots (old Dogs of war).

Maybe upgrades for Giants or cost reductions to make them Slave Giants.

Rhinox Cavalry into rare section.

Make our special characters a lot cheaper or improve what they do.

Drop the Hunters points cost a bit.

Update the big names making them better costed.

Update our books Magic items making magic weapons viable.

Reduce Thundertusk and Stonehorns costs slightly.

Bring back skirmishing and/or scouting gnoblars.

Halfling Hot pots (old Dogs of war).

Maybe upgrades for Giants or cost reductions to make them Slave Giants.

Rhinox Cavalry into rare section.

Make our special characters a lot cheaper or improve what they do.

Don't forget some mounts for our characters! A Stonehorn, Thundertusk, Rhinox or Mournfang would all be greatly appreciated.

I'd also personally love it if you could put a character on an Ironblaster, but that might be a bit too silly...

Agree with most things said already!
I was thinking.. Gutplates should count as light armor, so Ogres(bulls) would have IF and gutplate for 5+ save.
No biggie ofc, but it always thought it was strange that huge gutplates dident do anything.

Ironguts weaponskil 4 and the same for mournfangs.
Magic weapons.. i love magic weapons.. they dont have to be uber good or good at al tbh lol..
i just want some stuff to chose from.. i miss the magic items amount from 5'th edition..

A bit more difference from slaughtermaster and tyrant, i love to have a proper fighty general and atm the SM do it almost as well.
And tyrants with HA and gutplate would get a 4+ save

Agree with most things said already!
I was thinking.. Gutplates should count as light armor, so Ogres(bulls) would have IF and gutplate for 5+ save.
No biggie ofc, but it always thought it was strange that huge gutplates dident do anything.

Ironguts weaponskil 4 and the same for mournfangs.
Magic weapons.. i love magic weapons.. they dont have to be uber good or good at al tbh lol..
i just want some stuff to chose from.. i miss the magic items amount from 5'th edition..

A bit more difference from slaughtermaster and tyrant, i love to have a proper fighty general and atm the SM do it almost as well.
And tyrants with HA and gutplate would get a 4+ save

Um, Ogres do have light armor which stems from their gutplates. Or am I missing something? I guess there could be a Huge Gutplate option for Tyrants giving them a 4+ armour save, bumping it to 3+ with an Ironfist (or 2+ with an Enchanted Shield!).

Ah..d'oh.. diden't think about it that way tbh lol
I was thinking since a bruiser/tyrant with heavy armor got only 5+ save, the light armor he already had was from bits and pieces of armor he had on him,and the gutplate was just for show.
Same with Ironguts, asumed that the helmet and the armor on the arms= heavy armor

Ah..d'oh.. diden't think about it that way tbh lol
I was thinking since a bruiser/tyrant with heavy armor got only 5+ save, the light armor he already had was from bits and pieces of armor he had on him,and the gutplate was just for show.
Same with Ironguts, asumed that the helmet and the armor on the arms= heavy armor

Well I think basic ogres have light armour because of their thick skin. They get heavy armour by just slapping on some basic armour on their arms + helmets.

So as someone who will be keeping there army playable for 8th and using it for AoS until i decide i like it or not. I thought i would write out how i would like to update the book for Fantasy 8.5

Army Special Rules

• Remove Butcher Tax

Lords and Heroes

• +Lord level Firebelly
• Slaughtermasters and Butchers have access to all 8 lores
• No ironfists or armour on Slaughtermasters and Butchers
• Seperate points allowance for Big Names
• Combined profile for Hunter on Stonehorn
• Mournfang mount option for Tyrants and Bruisers
• Rhinox mount option for Tyrant
• +Gnoblar hero

Core

• + Gnoblar fast cavalry
• Move Yhetees to Core
• Complete overhaul of Yhetees; thick skin armour save, skirmish and frost breath attack in combat (similar to troll vomit)

Special

• Gorgers gain random movement

Rare

• + Rhinox cavalry

Magic Items

• Remove silly weapons
• Return the tenderizer

I think it is pretty reasonable and would not bring the ogre book to be more powerful than the elves. Would also open up a few different playstyles

I'm sorry but in my opinion having access to all 8 lores of battle magic would be way too good for ogres.
Light for one would be insane for ogres. Our models have the S/T/W to withstand lots of punishment and deal out a lot in return. Our problems are WS/I, if we got a spell that could bump these both up to 10, our troops would be theoretically undefeated in combat.
Or well, at least this is the way I feel. I may not be correct.