Swiftstride/Scout ManEaters

So I decided to give Scouting ManEaters another try.  In the past I had used the with Scout/ITP an mainly armed with pistols.  What I found was that when "I" put pistols on ManEaters I tend to play them very defensively.  I get caught trying to make sure I preserve their points and get as many shots as possible.  This in turn forces the rest of my army to assist them in staying alive.  It also means I tend to not charge them too often.

Now having tried the Tyrant double Firebelly list and having some initial success with it, I realized that it requires a completely different style of play.  Atleast for me it makes me more agressive.  Initially I was going to do Vanguard + Swiftstride/Stubborn but I wanted to give my opponent something think about.  So I ended up with this build:

6 ManEaters, Full Command, Champ & Musician w/AHW, std with Great Weapon, 3 vanilla.  Banner of Swiftness, Scout & Swiftstride.

The idea being they are M7 with Swiftstride and are deployed 12" away on a flank.  If I go first I march 11" right on top of my target, if I go second I will either charge or march right up depending on what my opponent does.  Either way I would NOT want 6 ManEaters in my face turn 1.  My sample size is about 6 games so far, so not too much but they have been a headache for all my opponents.

Thoughts?

I've used Scouting Maneaters more often than not and I find giving them pistols a waste of points. More often I use them as an early game distraction for the enemy. As you've said, nobody wants Maneaters in their face early in the game. I don't expect them to survive, I throw them in hard and fast early on and chew out as mucha s I can before they go down. Best case scenario they wipe out a unit or two and maybe distract or hold up others, worst case they hold up an unit or two whilst they are being pummeled to death and the rest of the army can advance into position.

I tend to use 2 types on units for this particular style of Maneater.

4 Maneaters, Full Command, 2x AHW, 2x Vanilla, Scout + Stubborn, Gleaming Pennant.

This unit is basically a small disposable guided missile that will crash into something at it's earliest opportunity and hold them there for as long as possible. If it kills them great, if not they will delay something and draw attention away from your main lines. If they get first turn position for the charge 2nd turn, if you go 2nd then charge away and hope for the best.

Next up is a larger unit with similar goals.

6 Maneaters, Full Command, 3x AHW, 1x GW, 2x Vanilla, Scout + Stubborn, Gleaming Pennant.

Again the same principle applies with this larger unit but given their numbers they should last longer, kill loads more and really do a number on the enemies flanks. Chances are they will also die but they often take out a tonne of stuff on their way out.

Have you ever given one of them a GW?  I ask because ever since I did it opens their target options much more.  Mine is on the standard.  That way I always have 4 Str 7 attacks unless they kill the unit or break it.

To be honest no, I generally don't bother on a smaller unit. I just use them to smash infantry or War machines before they go down. Between 4 of them they generate 16 or so S5 attacks which is often more than enough to cripple an enemy infantry unit. At a larger unit size of 6 I tend to include a GW. I've ran 9 Scout Maneaters before and had the 2nd rank all using GW's which was totally awesome but it's a pretty expensive unit. Between the 16 or so S5 and 9 S7 attacks not much survived 

I have a few suggestions that I think could make your Maneaters even more successfull:

- Put the GW on the Champ, not the Standard Bearer.  The Champ is always the last to die which guarantees that you get your GW attacks.  You can choose to offer/accept/decline challenges with the champ, and the GW gives you the chance at taking down most Hero-level characters.

- When using Swiftstride, the Dragonhide banner is far better than the Swiftness banner.  Dragonhide offers a solid combat buff, a breath weapon (that is a magic attack) with a multitude of uses, and best of all - it increases the odds of an Ogre Charge from 16.7% to 35.7%.  Dragonhide on Swiftstride Maneaters is almost as good as Dragonhide on Mournfang.

- Scout pairs best with Stubborn+Gleaming pennant.  It also works best as a smaller unit (I suggest 4 models) and with Brace of Ogre Pistols (so if you win the roll to go first, you can shoot with them).

I also suggest trying a game with two units of Maneaters: 

8x MEs (FC, Dragonhide Banner, HA, Poison, Swiftstride, 3x AHW, 3x GW) - Run them 4 wide with a GW on the Champ and two GW's in the 2nd rank.

and

4x MEs (Musician, Standard Bearer, Gleaming Pennant, Scout, Stubborn, 4x BoOP) - Can be run 2x2 or 4 wide depending on what you need.

-Snark

Never take a champ on a maneater unit.  If you charge something with a character, then you lose those attacks due to challenge shenanigans or to a combat character killing your maneater (and being invulnerable to additional damage, not to mention).

10 points for an extra attack isn't worth it.

I've used similar Maneater builds, and in my opinion it's one of the best - I can never use combat blocks of maneaters, as they tend to suffer if they don't get the charge, and any characters mess up the Swiftstride.

Just 4 Scouting Swiftstriders however are solid gold. They've ruined a LOT of plans before now.

Next up is a larger unit with similar goals.

6 Maneaters, Full Command, 3x AHW, 1x GW, 2x Vanilla, Scout + Stubborn, Gleaming Pennant.

Again the same principle applies with this larger unit but given their numbers they should last longer, kill loads more and really do a number on the enemies flanks. Chances are they will also die but they often take out a tonne of stuff on their way out.

I just have a question about this Mastero, since I am myself aiming to start assembling some maneaters. How will you field your unit of 6? Will you have the command unit take AHW´s and run the GW in the back, making them 3 wide?

Next up is a larger unit with similar goals.

6 Maneaters, Full Command, 3x AHW, 1x GW, 2x Vanilla, Scout + Stubborn, Gleaming Pennant.

Again the same principle applies with this larger unit but given their numbers they should last longer, kill loads more and really do a number on the enemies flanks. Chances are they will also die but they often take out a tonne of stuff on their way out.

I just have a question about this Mastero, since I am myself aiming to start assembling some maneaters. How will you field your unit of 6? Will you have the command unit take AHW´s and run the GW in the back, making them 3 wide?

Yeah, you've got it. Generally I tend to deploy them 3 wide and give the entire front rank AHW to maximize the number of attacks they generate then I'll put the GW in the back rank. This means that the enemy will have to deal 9 wounds to the unit before the GW drops and with AHW on the Command you are pumping out a shocking number of S5 attacks which should really do a number on pretty much any unit they happen to get into melee with (preferably Infantry but Cavalry will also feel the hurt). This raw damage output combined with Stubborn and the Gleaming Pennant should keep them around for a while as well so even if they take a kicking themselves they should still hold up the enemy long enough for your remaining units to catch up and jump in to lend a hand.

Never take a champ on a maneater unit.  If you charge something with a character, then you lose those attacks due to challenge shenanigans or to a combat character killing your maneater (and being invulnerable to additional damage, not to mention).

10 points for an extra attack isn't worth it.

The Champion isn't obligated to accept the challenge although I suppose it wont stop people from allocating attacks to him. It's really down to personal preference. Often 10 points for an extra attack doesn't seem worth it. If I have 10 points to spend I'll put a champ in the unit but it's not required. If you do accept the challenge that's a bunch of attacks from a killy lord not going into the unit effectively restricting the amount of combat res they can generate leaving the rest of your Maneaters to murder the unit he is accompanying. It's swings and roundabouts really.

Thank you for the quick reply. I will dive into my bits box once I get off work tonight .

Currently I run between 1500 to 1600 Pts, bulls, guts, leaddies, mfc with a kitted out tyrant and bruiser as well as two kitties.

At 2000pts I'm looking to include 3 scouting/ swiftstride man eaters each with great weapons and heavy armour- Having enough pts left over for a lvl 2 butcher with a hellheart.

I'm keen on the concept of having said m/e unit deployed 12" away from the enemy and see how they react/ adapt to threat of the charge next turn...

Currently I run between 1500 to 1600 Pts, bulls, guts, leaddies, mfc with a kitted out tyrant and bruiser as well as two kitties.

At 2000pts I'm looking to include 3 scouting/ swiftstride man eaters each with great weapons and heavy armour- Having enough pts left over for a lvl 2 butcher with a hellheart.

I'm keen on the concept of having said m/e unit deployed 12" away from the enemy and see how they react/ adapt to threat of the charge next turn...

To be honest I'd be concerned you are just throwing away 3 Maneaters if they are equipped with GWs. Unless you can get a flank charge with them chances are they will be wrecked before they even get a chance to attack. This may prove difficult as they cannot charge on the first turn and if they go second chances are their intended target will have reformed to face the impending charge. Of course this is dependent on the unit they are aiming to attack / distract.

With units of 3-4 I always go with AHW so they at least stand a chance of attacking simultaneously. Unless of course the army you are facing already has initiative higher than 3 in which case I guess it doesn't make much of a difference.

I'd also not worry about heavy armour too much, it's an extra expense that wont really pay off very often. These sorts of units aren't really built to survive for long, they are disposable guided missiles designed to hold up the enemy and I can't really see how 3 GW HA Maneaters will achieve that goal. Give it a try though, I could very well be wrong, it depends on your meta. I have a metric tonne of elves round my parts so GW's are useless because I generally carve a path through T3 elves pretty quickly with just AHW.

Currently I run between 1500 to 1600 Pts, bulls, guts, leaddies, mfc with a kitted out tyrant and bruiser as well as two kitties.

At 2000pts I'm looking to include 3 scouting/ swiftstride man eaters each with great weapons and heavy armour- Having enough pts left over for a lvl 2 butcher with a hellheart.

I'm keen on the concept of having said m/e unit deployed 12" away from the enemy and see how they react/ adapt to threat of the charge next turn...

To be honest I'd be concerned you are just throwing away 3 Maneaters if they are equipped with GWs. Unless you can get a flank charge with them chances are they will be wrecked before they even get a chance to attack. This may prove difficult as they cannot charge on the first turn and if they go second chances are their intended target will have reformed to face the impending charge. Of course this is dependent on the unit they are aiming to attack / distract.

With units of 3-4 I always go with AHW so they at least stand a chance of attacking simultaneously. Unless of course the army you are facing already has initiative higher than 3 in which case I guess it doesn't make much of a difference.

I'd also not worry about heavy armour too much, it's an extra expense that wont really pay off very often. These sorts of units aren't really built to survive for long, they are disposable guided missiles designed to hold up the enemy and I can't really see how 3 GW HA Maneaters will achieve that goal. Give it a try though, I could very well be wrong, it depends on your meta. I have a metric tonne of elves round my parts so GW's are useless because I generally carve a path through T3 elves pretty quickly with just AHW.

Everything you've said makes pefect sense. Essentially I intend for the man eaters to be immitating orcs, so along with the great weapons and heavy armour, the whole sneaky scoutin and waaaugh charge swift stride seemed to fit that well. Ideally I hope to force one unit on the enemy flank to reform, I'm invisioning that I'll deploy my man eaters and mournfang on the same side of the table. So whether they decide to take a head on charge from the mfc or reform to do so against the man eaters... My wishful thinking is that that unit on that particular end will need to make a tough choice. In the past people have often thrown heaps of shooting and magic at my mfc... But buying little time for the rest of my army regardless, mostly because I was making heavy use of mmu. My new method is to try create more immediate threats early on in order to buy some time for my bulls and guts. I've taken leaddies to add to this.

When I first started playing Ogres I was told to be more aggressive, so I'm looking for ways to do that and still stick to a certain theme. Honestly if I wasnt so stubborn on that, I'd probably scrap the mfc and some bulls for an Iron blaster and brace of pistol man eaters with scouting and poison... Or ITP.