Lunk Jadefist the Simple (tyrant build)

Here is my tyrant build
Mawseeker
Trickster's helm
Iron curse icon
Dragonbane gem
Hvy armor
Extra hand wep

I was a fan of the Tricksters Helm 4++ build personally but I think I might have just found a more defensive one.

Talisman of Preservation
Mountaineater
Glittering Scales
Ironcurse Icon
Great Weapon

Vs a blender Lord this build will only take 1.559 wounds.  Yours will take 2.746.  Thats assuming Str 7, Red Fury, Quickblood

Actually, I read yours as taking 1.87 wounds (don't forget about the extra attacks generated! )
The Tricksters 4++ takes 1.84 wounds.  So, at S7, the difference is semantic.  Where you see the greater defensiveness of the the Trickster's 4++ is in other strength values.  For instance, 10 WS5 (or less) S6 hits cause 1.1 wounds (1.1 for yours as well), but 10 WS5 S5 hits cause .63 wounds vs tricksters 4++, but cause .83 against yours.   It only gets worse at lower strength, with 10 WS5 (or less) S4 attacks causing .27 wounds against Trickster's 4++, but causing .55 against your suggested one.  All you're really getting out of the change is S8 vs S7 from a Trickster's 4++ with a GW.

The trickster's helm is great, but unless you're just planning on tanking RoF infantry, then you really need the 4++ to back it up.

I SO wish our big names didn't eat into our items points allowance... 

Vamp Lord  WS7, S5, T5, A5
(Ogre Blade, Red Fury, Quickblood, 1+ AS, 4++)

VS Tyrant WS6, T6
(Mawseeker, Trickter's Helm)

5 * .666 = 3.33      (initial hits)
1.67 * .666 = 1.112  (re-rolls)
3.33 + 1.112 = 4.442 (total hits)
4.442 * .666 = 2.958 (to wound)
2.958 * .666 = 1.97  (re-roll to wound)

No ward means 1.97 wounds go through

Red Fury attacks

1.97 * .666 = 1.312  (initial hits)
.658 * .666 = .438   (re-rolls to hit)
1.312 + .438 = 1.75  (total hits)
1.75 * .666 = 1.165  (to wound)
1.165*.666 = .776    (re-roll to wound)

No ward means .776 wounds go through

1.97 + .776 = 2.746  (total wounds)

VS Tyrant WS5, T5
(Talisman of Preservation, Mountaineater, Glittering Scales)

5 * .5 = 2.5         (initial to hit)
2.5 * .5 = 1.25         (re-rolls to hit)
2.5 + 1.25 = 3.75    (total hits)
3.75 * .666 = 2.497  (to wound)
2.497 * .5 = 1.248   (ward save)

1.248 wounds go through

Red Fury

1.248 * .5 = .624    (initial to hit)
.624 * .5 = .312     (re-rolls to hit)
.624 + .312 = .936   (total hits)
.936 *.666 = .623    (to wound)
.623 * .5 = .311     (ward save)

1.248 + .311 = 1.559 (total wounds)

This is against Str 7 Vampire Lord.  Not sure how our numbers are off, im not the best at mathammer.  Also not really sure how it would hold up to wounds caused by lower or higher strength.

And I also wish our bignames did not come from the same allotment as magic items.

Our numbers are off because I mistook the Mountaineater big name for the one that gives you +1 strength instead   My numbers were based off of T5, not T6.

One thing to consider -

The mawseeker tyrant has the advantage of benefiting from our most iconic spell, trollguts.  With that buff, his wounds received drops by half to 1.37.

So the question becomes, how likely are you to have trollguts for the most important combat in the game?

Another thing to consider -

The mawseeker tyrant also gains a big advantage from toothcracker.  With that buff, his wounds taken drops to 1.36 (so pretty much the same as trollguts).

The best part of this is that your opponent likely will save dice/put everything into stopping trollguts.  You will probably be able to get toothcracker off on 2 dice at the start of the magic phase.  The odds that you will get at least one of the two spells off seems to be pretty high.

Unfortunately, the mountaineater gains nothing from these defensive buffs.  If you were running Lore of heavens, then iceshard blizzard/curse of the midnight wind could both be very helpful to the mountaineater.  But I think it is pretty rare among ogres to see a tyrant with a level 4 of heavens, especially when you consider the butcher tax must be paid.  I think the most common tyrant lists either run with double firebelly (no defensive spells) or a level 4 of maw.

But much respect to Grix for a very viable build using mountaineater.  I don't think I have seen anybody suggest that big name in a very long time.

-Snark

PS:  My tyrant build is borrowed from our own Eg Giant-tripper:  Sword of Striking, Enchanted Shield, Greedy Fist, Other Trickster's Shard, Giantbreaker.  He is a beast in combat.  The irongut champion takes the challenge from the blender lord, while my tyrant racks up combat rez on the unit, then watches the blender lord crumble.

Iirc, Doesn't Giantbreaker require you to accept all challenges?

It say you can never refuse a challenge.  It does not say you must except all challenges with that character.  So if there is another character or champion that can accept then they can take it.  It there is not then he has no choice.

Fun times! 

Kind regards Zolas.

Thank you for the clarification. I have been playing it wrong.

@Snark. With that build do you ever have your Tyrant die in CC against regular attacks?  I like that build but with my fear (probsbly misplaced) of loosing my Tyrant during a crucial combat?  I guess I can feed a Firebelly after the champ goes down.

In 3 practice games + 6 games at GQ, he only died once (and that was to a HKB Brett lord).

The challenge restriction is at worst a minor hindrance.  The no-fleeing restriction can be much worse...

-Snark

My tyrant build is borrowed from our own Eg Giant-tripper:  Sword of Striking, Enchanted Shield, Greedy Fist, Other Trickster's Shard, Giantbreaker.  He is a beast in combat.  The irongut champion takes the challenge from the blender lord, while my tyrant racks up combat rez on the unit, then watches the blender lord crumble.

That's a pretty good offensive build, but how do you think it stacks up to Greedy Fist, Sword of Strife, Enchanted Shield, and the Other Trickster's Shard? Essentially replacing the Sword of Striking and Giantbreaker for the Sword of Strife. I think the Strife option works better against rank and file, while the striking build, with the higher strength, will work better against monster riders and defensive characters.

I am curious to what builds people think are the most defensive?

I am looking for a Tyrant build that can take a beating and dish it out to rank and file troops

My original thought is that it would include a great weapon, a ward save of sorts

Let me know your thoughts

I am curious to what builds people think are the most defensive?

I am looking for a Tyrant build that can take a beating and dish it out to rank and file troops

My original thought is that it would include a great weapon, a ward save of sorts

Let me know your thoughts

One of the most defensive builds I've done is Mawseeker, Gut Maw, great weapon.  Give yourself the dragonbane gem if you want.  Anyway, he gets up in someones face, issues a challenge.  If they accept, then your super tough to kill tyrant gets some wounds back.  If they decline, then you send one of their characters to the back and stomp on some infantry.  You are going to be wounding on 2s, and probably wounded on 6s, so you are pretty tough to kill.  You should get 3 or 4 kills with him pretty easily.

You can also give him the sword of striking.  You will be less killy on tough things, but infantry should get creamed.

I have been thinking maybe Fencer's blade, Glittering Scales and Mawseeker might be quite good as an all round defensive build, thoughts?

Here you go.  I included the two most basic options for comparison.  The conclusion is that that build beats fencer's/glittering/greedy fist vs WS4 or lower, but is less protective against WS5 or higher.  Still FAR below trickster's/ToP.  Also, his role and your meta will have a huge impact.  Mawseeker is great against low strength attacks, but falls short rapidly as strength goes up, so not the best choice for a character killer. 

10 attacks at WS4 vs Fencer's, Glittering, Mawseeker
S3 = .23 wounds
S4 = .28 wounds
S5 = .55 wounds
S6 = .83 wounds
S7 = 1.1 wounds
S8+ = 1.4 wounds
10 attacks at WS5+
S3 = .46 wounds
S4 = .55 wounds
S5 = 1.1 wounds
S6 = 1.7 wounds
S7 = 2.2 wounds
S8+ = 2.75 wounds
10 attacks at WS4 vs Fencer's, Glittering, Greedy Fist
S3 = .19 wounds
S4 = .46 wounds
S5 = .69 wounds
S6 = .91 wounds
S7+ = 1.2 wounds
10 attacks at WS5+
S3 = .38 wounds
S4 = .91 wounds
S5 = 1.4 wounds
S6 = 1.8 wounds
S7+ = 2.3 wounds
10 attacks at WS6 vs Trickster's Helm, Talisman of Preservation (heavy armor on tyrant)
S3 = .06 wounds (.03 with HA)
S4 = .27 wounds (.18 with HA)
S5 = .63 wounds (.52 with HA)
S6 = 1.1 wounds
S7+ = 1.7 wounds
10 attacks at WS7+
S3 = .08 wounds (.05 with HA)
S4 = .36 wounds (.24 with HA)
S5 = .83 wounds (.69 with HA)
S6 = 1.4 wounds
S7+ = 2.3 wounds

And, just as an FYI, here is the base Trickster's/Talisman and then compared to being effected by the Other Trickster's Shard (a common piece of kit in a combat character)

Base
10 attacks at WS6 vs Trickster's Helm, Talisman of Preservation (heavy armor on tyrant)
S3 = .06 wounds (.03 with HA)
S4 = .27 wounds (.18 with HA)
S5 = .63 wounds (.52 with HA)
S6 = 1.1 wounds
S7+ = 1.7 wounds
10 attacks at WS7+
S3 = .08 wounds (.05 with HA)
S4 = .36 wounds (.24 with HA)
S5 = .83 wounds (.69 with HA)
S6 = 1.4 wounds
S7+ = 2.3 wounds
Vs Other Trickster's Shard
10 attacks at WS6 vs Trickster's Helm, Talisman of Preservation (heavy armor on tyrant)
S3 = .09 wounds (.05 with HA)
S4 = .41 wounds (.27 with HA)
S5 = .94 wounds (.78 with HA)
S6 = 1.6 wounds
S7+ = 2.6 wounds
10 attacks at WS7+
S3 = .11 wounds (.07 with HA)
S4 = .54 wounds (.36 with HA)
S5 = 1.2 wounds (1.03 with HA)
S6 = 2.2 wounds
S7+ = 3.4 wounds

My tyrant build is borrowed from our own Eg Giant-tripper:  Sword of Striking, Enchanted Shield, Greedy Fist, Other Trickster's Shard, Giantbreaker.  He is a beast in combat.  The irongut champion takes the challenge from the blender lord, while my tyrant racks up combat rez on the unit, then watches the blender lord crumble.

That's a pretty good offensive build, but how do you think it stacks up to Greedy Fist, Sword of Strife, Enchanted Shield, and the Other Trickster's Shard? Essentially replacing the Sword of Striking and Giantbreaker for the Sword of Strife. I think the Strife option works better against rank and file, while the striking build, with the higher strength, will work better against monster riders and defensive characters.

Defensively, they are the same, although the Giantbreaker cannot flee and somebody has to accept challenges.  Offensively, the Giantbreaker should generate 4.17 hits vs anything WS5 or less which translates to 3.47 wounds at Str 7 vs anything T5 or less.  The Strife option should generate 4.67 hits vs anything WS5 or less which translates to 3.89 wounds at Str 6 vs anything T4 or less.  The Strife option has the advantage when dealing with T4 or lower and when dealing with 4+ armor or worse.  If dealing with T5+ or a 3+ or better armor save, then the Giantbreaker will come out better (the additional Str offsets the additional hit from Strife). 

I prefer the Giantbreaker because if dealing with T4/4+ armor, then I will already win thanks to my own rank and file.  I need the Str7 to deal with things my ogres struggle with (monsters, 1+ armor, T5+ characters, etc).

Btw, if they fought each other in challenge, the Giantbreaker is the favorite to win (doing 2.78 wounds per round, killing his opponent in round 2 while taking 1.95 wounds per round and surviving with 1.1 wounds left).

-Snark