BlightKings - New End Times Nurgle

To those of you that have not kept up with rumours regarding the Chaos Release for the upcoming second End Times book here is some info:

The releases and plot are heavily Nurgle themed (the relationship with Archaon here is currently unknown)
Nurgle is a lover of LIFE , not death, and so is the perfect opposition to Nagash. Nurgle loves every microbe of life equally, and it is disease etc that multiply fastest, so by loving Nurgle you create more life by spreading disease md his followers never die. Nice touch...
They get the first INFANTRY unit in the game to come on 40mm bases, and they. Are. Awesome.

Take a look:
http://eltallerdeyila.blogspot.com.es/2014/10/white-dwarf-37-imagenes-de-los-putrid.html?m=1

BB

Those guys look amazing! Model wise they are fantastic for Nurgle Chaos Ogres if you're not interested in the End Times stuff and failing that their stats and rules look pretty sweet as well! Can't wait to see these guys in the flesh.

Models look great no doubt but god those stat lines make are ogres look terrible.  They are superior in every way.  They can use different weapons for different for different tasks.  So better equipped in every way better armour, better stat line in most ways as well as mark of nurgle.  And they only cost 40pts........... really?  I mean Ironguts cost 43pts.  This unit is undercosted considerably to be honest.

Well rant over.

Kind regards Zolas.

P.S. Sorry bout that.

Uh, they don't get impact hits and stomps, so we got that going for us, which is nice.

They can also be the victim of stomps and killing blow (oh hi scraplaunchers!), only get 1 supporting attack as well  plus they don't cause fear. The profile and base size does raise a few eyebrows but they'll be in small units due to the price per model.

So all in all they probably won't have that big an impact but they do seem like a converters wet dream, even my puny conversion skills can see a lot of potential in them for some unique and spectacular stuff.

More importantly, when it lists what armies can take them, it does not mention any kind of combined list - just Beastmen, Daemons and Warriors. Hmm. No grand alliance then?

Perhaps rules for an alliance will only count if Archaon is present? It would make more sense in my opinion. 3 warring factions that bow to one supreme commander only if they have to!

The fact that they are infantry SERIOUSLY hampers these guys. Enough for me to argue that they are well costed. We have never seen a unit of this stat line on 40mm bases as infantry (not in recent editions anyway), but they are outmanoeuvreable and definitely weak against killing blow. Should add a new (reasonable) challenge I hope.

More importantly, I'm not even a Nurgle fan and I adore the models!

BB

I'm really not that impressed with them.  You need to have ranks of 5 for rank bonuses, steadfast, and all the other kickers for infantry.  If they go the GW option they're going to take wounds.  Sure, they'll hit and wound a bunch, but at 40 pts. a model, I really don't see a unit of 10-15 of these things running around.  Sure, they may be used as the new sweet re-director but I don't see them winning the "long grind" against most things.

Just shoot them with leadbeltchers.

My first reaction was ugh, more broken nurgle crap, but then I got thinking.

Nurgle chosen with shields (the closest match statwise) are slightly more than half these guys cost. Subtract the loss of the chosen's free roll on the eye of the gods table and add these guys being armed to the teeth and I estimate 12-14 points difference per model.

For those 12-14 points you gain a pip of toughness, two wounds, and an attack. Drawbacks are that a unit of these is going to have a huge footprint. They still need to be five wide for ranks, making a meaningful rank bonus nearly impossible (see the memorial to cavalry for what happens to choppy units with no static CR when steadfast comes into play).

So these guys seem like a hammer unit that's too slow to be a proper hammer. Warriors can field more efficient options, and when was the last time beastmen were considered competitive? This might actually give them a nice boost. Nurgle daemon walls are already stupidly strong, so these might replace beasts but that won't overtly change the dynamic of the army.

So now it really boils down to is the unit type: infrantry a type o???? Doesn't it?  If they are monstrous then it's ouch.  If there not well they would be clumsy to use.

Kind regards Zolas.

Do Beastmen get anything out of it though? They already have Minotaurs for effective shock MI troops, and Bestigors are pretty darn savage Great Weapon guys too for their points.

And Gors are REALLY points efficient to be honest.

Beastmen lack Monster hunting and high armour saves more than anything. This doesn't help in any way, though a Gorebull could at least give them Frenzy...

The character's not the worst thing in the world, since he gives his rule to whatever he joins, but it's not that impressive.

So, at 20 slaves these to me seem to be the most OP models I have seen in a long time.

The stats for these guys etc are on the net so hopefully ok to discuss them here? If not feel free to delete this post.

Amazing models with amazing stats. They are infantry and not MI mind.

Compared to our IG: -2M, +3WS, +1T,+3I and same Str and LD with 3W and 3A. Beastly.
They have same rules as Borcs for weapons more or less in that they decide each combat to have sword and board, 2 HW or great weapon. Mark of Nurgle for the negative to hit.

Anyone else think these guys are crazy? So cheap. Now I did think maybe they are going to lower points across the board and this is the start but they have not lowered Undead legion?

A horde would be a waste of 3A and they look to be 40mm bases even though they are just infrantry - so that would be a little crazy size.


What do people think?

K

It boils down to if they are definitely on 40mm bases, and if they are infantry or monstrous infantry.  They do seem very scary stats wise and with the ability to choose what ever weapons they wish can be very versatile.

However, M4 limits them a little.  And if they are indeed Infantry instead of monstrous then their foot print will be huge as they need 5 models for an official rank. 

They do make even our maneaters look like wimps at 10pts cheaper though.  But hey we can stomp them still lol!

Kind regards Zolas.

Aye, picture I've seen is them fighting empire and defo 40mm base. The kicker will be if Infrantry is a missprint...

K

They're classed as infantry, same with the character too - their points pretty much dictate they have to be. That pulls them right down to 'average' in my book, though lack of rank bonus might not be a particularly big problem.

We'll see whether they get much use or not. Right now they don't bring much that's sorely needed to the armies they're available for - though they could be said to be cheaper than Nurgle Chosen for what you get out of them...

While they're fairly nuts on their own, these guys stack pretty well with the new undead units; the morgasts or whatever they're called.  Those guys also make our MEs look like wimps for cheaper.

40mm base Infantry? That sounds like a typo. Otherwise, darn! Just by reading the comments these guys sound scary! What do we have that could even fair against them evenly? Cannonfire, chaff? I mean, I think even our characters would have a hard time dealing with them in combat.

Crazy... The only thing that'll keep them off the field will be the ultimate crutches of the Nurgle DP and zoo...

Impact hits and stomps should deal with them nicely, plus they're only movement 4, so most of our army can outmanoeuvre them. In combat because of their large footprint they won't actually be that big a threat, I doubt most people will be making units bigger than the 5 you need to make it a legal unit. There's just not that enough benefit for even starting a second rank with them as they only get 1 supporting attack. 

Warriors of Chaos at least have a lot of better options to bring, yes they got 15 attacks and 15 wounds and can choose which weapons to use in combat, but honestly I wouldn't be too scared if they showed up to a fight against my ogres. Despite their statline looking more like an ogre just without all the lovely special rules, hell a scraplauncher can knock these guys out without much of a fight.

Also as they are infantry they won't be able to do more than one supporting attack. They stand no chance against most monstrous infantry with 2 ranks. On the face they seem good, but they wont be able to be that devastating without the extra rank.

They will probably be taken in units of 4, and then when 2 dies it will neuter the unit as they wont be able to deal with combat ress. Shooting them at distance and taking the unit down to 2 models seems the most probable way to deal with them.

I honestly see them as being replacements for Chaos Ogres, as in replacing them entirely in the Army Book; however that would depend on replacements for the other Chaos Gods as well. As a stand alone addition to the book, you probably won't find too many actually fielding them, their speed, cost and lack of rank bonuses makes them somewhat untenable as a reliable unit.

They come in minimum of 5+ unit size. I think as infrantry they are fun but nothing crazy. If monstrous they are broken to high heaven.

I do think they are very sturdy however vs shooting and combat. 3+ AS and T5 at range, large bases so templates hit less, in combat high WS, I and T5 with -1 to hit.

Nuts to compare their stats to Empire Generals

K

Remember as the are normal infantry (currently) they are very vulnerable to cannon shots too as it goes straight through normal infantry ranks even if it doesn't kill the first model. 

Just something else to consider.

Kind regards Zolas.

Love the look of these!! If nothing else this could be the start of a fantastic Nurgle/Chaos Ogre themed Ogre list/army.

New stuff...

Looks great which means my bank balance probably wont be able to handle it 

They do look great. Not sure of the paint jobs.

I'm not a massive fan of the concept they've gone for with them but I'm sure they'll sell well.

I'm most happy that these are not the aforementioned 'Glotkin' and that that will be next week!!!!

BB