50% Lords. What are the implications for Ogres?

I love the options this allows all armies. Someone mentioned earlier finally having the option to take Greasus at a lower points cost whilst knowing he's not an optimal choice.

This is EXACTLY what the End Times addition are about. More lords is fun, but will not help you win battles.

We've had a culture in the game now of some players striving to find the absolute optimal choices for each army which I suppose is natural. However this has led to numerous configurations being frowned upon by others so some things cannot be played at all without your opponent thinking you are there to win not caring about having fun.

For me, this update allows me to take a whole bunch of stuff that may be considered overpowered in a well balanced army. But allows me to unbalance the army making it just hilarious and fun to play and against. Happy Belchfist!

Personally I'm not yet sold on the 50% Lord allowance. For us ogres it will mean alot less wounds/bodies on the board if we go double lord.

Especially in lower point games it will be hard. In a 1000 point game you can walk in to a character of 500 pts, without having anyting to deal with it.

I really liked the hardship of getting a good lord in your list and trying out different kits and see which had the best synergy with your playstyle.

But we will see how it pans out. Maybe I will fall in love with double SM at 2000 points...

I really like the 50% for heroes. I would have liked to see the 25% Lords and 50% heroes. Feels like a good fluff base, one General worth up to 25% and then a few heroes thrown under his command.

I'm just waiting for the Double Daemon Prince lists to come out from the WoC players... *shudders*

THAT of Unkillable Lord AND Daemon Prince lists... *Extra shudders*

Does it not still need to be a 2000pt game in order to be allowed to take a Lord? Or is that necessity gone?

In a 1000pt game for the sake of it, sure you would have nothing to deal with that Chaos Lord of death, but with so little else on the opposing table thou could outmanoeuvre, outflank and combat res the thing into the ground no problem. That's the good thing. Having an unkillable, uber character doesn't win the game like back in the days of hero hammer. Other factors definitely play their part.

There is still only one general btw, but it allows for things like Arkhan and Mannfred to take to the table together as they do in the fluff (in a 3000 game). At the very least it actually means characters like Archaon and Karl Franz (GREASUS!) etc who may not actually be value for points or the most sensible thing; to take to the table as they're great fun to play with. My Archaon model certainly sits on the side gathering dust but have always considered my army led by him....seems strange.

Maybe I'm only wanting to see the positive side I admit it

The needing 3 units and requiring the 25% core helps to alleviate those hardcore lords in lower point games.  Like was mentioned, if someone brings a tooled up 500 point lord then he doesn't have many points to squeeze into 3 units and still be effective.  I think they are pretty neat changes so far.  I'm sure I'll go up against someone though that'll make me cry, one day, one day.

Ah oke the 2000 pts minimum was not mentioned yet, so I didn't know. That makes it a bit better actually. And I agree that rarely used models might get a chance to appear, which would be nice.

An unkillable uber caster might bring down a whole army by himself, but outmanouvering and combet res might take it down. But it won't be fun to play against, kind of the same as playing against a Gutstar. (not a fan of that tactic myself)

And I know that there can be only one general, I was just imagining it from a fluff perspective.

I still think that you will see some nasty stuff at 2400 tournaments, like double Daemon princes. Which will force/urge me to bring double IB. I just don't see it balancing the game more.

But like I said we will see and I might change my mind. All I want now is for someone to updat battlescribe so I can get on with list bashing

I'm just waiting for the Double Daemon Prince lists to come out from the WoC players... *shudders*

THAT of Unkillable Lord AND Daemon Prince lists... *Extra shudders*

I sat down to work this out.

It's actually possible to have the Nurgle Prince of Doom and an Unkillable Discolord in the same army (scaly skin goes to the prince, the lord makes up for it with enchanted shield, or rides a barded mount of some kind and has a shield or helm of many eyes).

Not fun at all.

Yeah, basically it means you need to field a uber-defensive character to hold those guys up, which is where a full-kit defensive Maw-caster comes in for us.  You hold up that mo-fo, and kill the rest of the army.

Not sure about your local scenes, but the Australian tournament scene is mostly looking like it's going to ignore the changed Lord allowances and Lore of Undeath for everyone, though there's talk that they may still allow Undead Legions include Lore of Undeath there.

One of the guys from my FLGS was talking about triple or quadruple daemons princes, which I'm keen to see him run because he sure as hell won't have the gear to make all of them unkillable.  Will probably become a game of "So, how many Gnoblars can you actually take out per turn?  Because I've got a couple hundred of them for you"

I still think that you will see some nasty stuff at 2400 tournaments, like double Daemon princes. Which will force/urge me to bring double IB. I just don't see it balancing the game more.

This is what grinds my gears about GW. They seemingly couldn't care less about the game system itself or whether it is balanced so long as they produce more toys and books for people to buy which in turn lines their pockets. I am hoping they will pull their finger out for 9th and make it a much more well rounded and balanced system where each army stands a damn good chance against every other but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

Before we descend into GW bashing in this topic, we need to be very clear about the End Times rules.

They are not permanent changes to the way WFB works. It is not a replacement ruleset in any way. It is essentially a campaign supplement. You can choose to use the End Times rules if you want to including all force organisation changes etc. I would assume most tournaments won't be doing that as it's not the main ruleset etc but a few tournaments will be playing in the End Times and so will follow the rules.

From a fluff perspective, it really does make sense having all these characters around once you've read the book!

Right you are, I only read the novel and not the Nagash army book. So this clear distinction on the rules is very helpfull.

I really like the idea of more special characters for fluff reasons. Unfortunatly for us the only kind of reliable one is Skragg. (with all his gorgers he is hilarious!)

Actually you may well be right there. A Skaggs army with an additional SM might be well worth a fun game! A good 6 Gorgers as well obviously...