1500pts vs Wood Elves

1500 pts vs Wood Elves, no Magic Items
Watchtower objective
A local player recently got his hands on a Wood Elf army and wanted to test it out.  All he could field was 1500 pts, no magic items except a dispel scroll.  I have not played against the new Wood Elves, so I decided to oblige him.  And, to be fair, I limited myself to no magic items save the dispel scroll as well.  I will say that building a 1500 pt list is very hard to do, since I seldom play lower than 2000, I have never played against Wood Elves, and I am not sure what to do.  So, I try to go as generic as possible.  I also know he is bringing a Lv 4 wizard, so I need some ability to match.

My Ogres
Lv 3 SM, Dispel Scroll (Braingobler, Trollguts, Toothcracker), AHW
BSB, HA, AHW
7 Ironguts , Standard
7 Ogres – IF, Standard, Mus
6 Leadbelchers, Mus
3 Mournfang – Mus, HA, IF
Sabretusk
Sabretusk


His Wood Elves
Lv 4 Spellweaver– Dispel Scroll (Pendulum, Withering, Pit of Shades, something else)
Waystalker
Waystalker
10 Glade Guard – Poison Arrows
10 Glade Guard – Poison Arrows
10 Glade Guard – Poison Arrows
5 Wild Riders
5 Wild Riders
5 Way Watchers (waystalker)
5 Way Watchers (waystalker)
Great Eagle
Great Eagle

So, this game I will say up front, is a study in mistakes.  That is the value of writing this report: to examine my poor decisions.  The dice weren’t with me all night, but for the most part, my magic went well enough (not perfect, but well enough – no miscasts despite high risk rolls).  This is a game I totally could have won but for bad decisions and a few poor rolls.

My strategy up front was to beat him out of the tower as fast as possible, then sit in it, and try to keep his units outside occupied until the end of the game.  Here is the set up with vanguard moves:


Right off the bat, I screwed up.  I knew he had scouts that I didn’t want in my back field, and I thought about using the sabertusks to occupy the rear flanks, but I didn’t go with it.  I was also trying to be a good sport, helping my opponent out as much as possible, since he was trying to learn his army.  He placed his waywatchers originally so that I could get a first turn charge on them with my sabertusks on both sides of the table.  This alone would have changed the game, but I pointed that out and offered to let him move them until I could no longer see the units of waywatchers (I even got down and guided him).  I wrote off his Waywatcher units, thinking that I would leave them in the dust and no big deal.  I also figured the Ironguts with the characters stood the best shot of lasting in the tower; so they lined up to go right in.  This was probably accurate, but it meant I wasn’t bringing my full force down on him. 

Ogres turn 1
So, after vanguards, I make my first mistake and I don’t know why, but I was all excited for a first turn charge with the sabertusks, thinking I could win the chaff war, so I charge his eagle.  He opts to flee.  I should have left it there, but for some dumb reason I cannot justify, I decide to redirect, pass the Sabertusk’s low Ld check, and redirect into the Wild Riders (I had anticipated blocking him with the Sabertusk/Eagle combat, when the eagle flew away, I realized that if I didn’t hold him in place, he was charging now that the eagle was out of the way, so I thought I might see if the cat could hold in combat….didn’t work, but the cat does kill a single rider)  Everything else moves up, but not all the way as I was fearful of close range shooting and charges from the damn wild riders (again, dumb, but my goal was to occupy him as long as possible until the game ended with me in the tower).  Magic is a bust, he dispels everything.  My SM, BSB, and an IG form an assault party which kills 9 of the 10 occupants of the building, but the occupant holds.

(Disregard the arrows on his Eagle and Wild Rider on the left side, I had their vanguard moves wrong)

Wood Elves Turn 1
He charges the wild riders into my leadbelchers and otherwise just moves up his Waywatchers.  I use the dispel scroll on the Pendulum he has aimed at my Slaughtermaster (he rolled a 28).  Yet another mistake, should have just taken a lookout sir.  He hits my Mournfang with the Withering, and I learn just how nasty those “ignores armor” waywatchers are as he kills 1 and leaves another with only a wound remaining.  He totally cannot see my Ogres on the other side of the Leadbelcher/Wild Rider combat, but after much debate and him saying he can “see a gut underneath the legs of the cavalry” (which, by the way, are incomplete models he is still putting together), we let the dice decide.  And they do decide that he can see through the combat, but we call it hard cover.  They kill an ogre.  The wild riders do 9 wounds on the charge, and the Leadbelchers make me proud by killing 4 wild riders, but leave a single remaining rider, who thus wins combat.  Needing double 1’s, I roll a 1 and 2 on my Ld check, so close…and the BSB reroll doesn’t do better.  Had I taken the Standard of Discipline, as I had before agreeing to go sans magic items, making my generals Ld 9, I would have passed.  Blast.  Oh well, no way to have known it would be that close of a call.  Anyway, the lone Wild Rider runs down the 3 remaining Leadbelchers, who leave the table having done very little (268 points, run over like that by half the points value…)


Lesson learned here: it was a huge mistake to charge with the Sabretusk, I should have used him as a redirector/speedbump.  As it was, the eagle was blocking any charge from the wildriders anyway.  I should have just capitalized on that mistake of his instead of matching it with my own.  The end result was that instead of my leadblechers blasting away, they got put away.

Ogres turn 2
I Charge what I can.  No only am I sufficiently worried about the other unit of wild riders (I shoudn’t have been), but they are the closest unit to my Ogre Bulls (who roll box cars on the charge!).  Magic nets me a bubble casting of trollguts without a miscast.  My IG unit busts into the tower and secures the objective of the game, the sabertusk dies, but the ogre bulls just run over the wildriders (they never had a chance) and reform, ready to start smashing those damn poisoned arrow archers and hopefully remove his Lv 4 from the game.  Despite my mistakes, the fact that my mournfang are entirely ineffective right now and just getting shot to pieces, I am feeling pretty good about my chances of winning holding the tower for a victory.


Wood Elves turn 2
He turns to face the impending threat of the Orges.  His magic phase turns the game decidedly against me.  He gets 12 dice from the winds of magic and, predictably, 6-dices Pit of Shades on my Ogres for irresistible force.  There is no scatter, of course and all 6 bulls are dragged into the abyss (I don’t actually grudge him this move, it was exactly the smartest thing for him to do…just hurts).  Two things stand out, one as an observation, two a mistake:  one, I cannot stand it when rolling dice, if you just pick the die up and gently drop it back on the table from about 1 inch up, so that it is near impossible to get anything but what was already showing.  Flick your fingers all you want, your are not fooling anyone with what you are trying to do.  Even worse, it was MY freaking scatter dice which I had placed as a marker of the units that had trollguts that he gently plucked and “rolled”.  Number Two, and this was my fault, I rolled my initiative test for all 6 remaining bulls and forget that 2’s are passes, and since I don’t see any 1’s, take them all off the table (I would have had one or two bulls remaining, but I cannot remember now).  My mistake; at that point I was making a conscious effort on being nice and congratulating him on such “a great move and luck” in as sincere a manner as possible.  I can honestly say that I was quite nice at the time, none of the above is/was sarcasm, I have no interest in making any game a bad experience.  It just bothered me as I wrote this report.  Now, off the soap box.  The result of the miscast is a single wound on his caster and losing his remaining dispel dice.  Game Changer.  Shooting for the rest of the round takes out another Mournfang  and some IGs, but Trollguts is a huge reason I don’t throw in the towel.


Ogres Turn 3
I make a last ditch attempt with the Mournfang to get into his archers, thinking that if I can reduce his shooting ability, I can still hold out for a win.  I make yet another mistake: Instead of charging the CLOSER eagle, which would have resulted in no stand and shoot, as well as an overrun into the flank of his archers, prolonging the combat into his turn and potentially turning the tide back in my favor, I chose to charge the Archers!  Totally dumb move, because I end up 1 inch short on the range, but totally would have had the eagle.  Plus, stand and shoot brings him down to 1 remaining wound, as I continue to whiff armor saves (I hadn’t made a single one for him yet).  Magic does go very well for me, the dice gods had pity upon my Ogres.  Rolling 10 power dice, I go for broke and roll 5 dice on a bubble Trollguts and Bubble Toothcraker, both of which go off (he fails dispel) and neither miscast!@!@!  I may yet last.


Wood Elves turn 3
He goes for pit of shades again in his magic phase on the remaining Irongut unit in the tower, but this time does not cast.  So, he goes all out in the shooting and murders the remaining Mournfang.  Luckily, trollguts combined with Toothcraker on the unit totally nerfs his shooting.


Ogres turn 4
This is it, just need to hold out, and Lore of the Great Maw is going to help me do it…or not.  I go for trollguts on 3 dice and roll 3x1’s.  DAMN IT!


Wood Elves turn 4
He hits me with the Withering and reduces my toughness…ouch, seriously ouch.  Ironguts take some serious damage BUT do not panic!  I can win….no, he rolls a 2 for end game and we keep playing.

Ogres Turn 5
I go for it again with the magic buffs and get the both, but at this point there are only 5 remaining models, 3 IGs, SM, and BSB.

Wood Elves Turn 5
He gets withering off on me again, and continues to whittle me down.  Luckily, with the lack of rank and file models, I put lots of poison shots on the SM, which helps mitigate.  BSB takes 2 wounds.  No panic.  Rolls for endgame again…Nope, still going


Ogres Turn 6
More of the same, only this time he dispels trollguts, toothcraker goes through.

Wood Elves Turn 6
Withering again.  This is the 2nd or 3rd turn in a row where he only got 3-5 power dice.  Shooting kills the BSB and an Irongut.  No panic, only the SM and one guy remaining…I can win…NOPE, roll of 2 for end game…it continues.


Ogres Turn 7
Magic is a failure, I am about to die.

Wood Elves turn 7
He just barely is able to shoot the 2 remaining models out of the tower for the victory.

Believe it or not there was actually an extra turn in there (so it was 8 turns total) around what the last turns where he charged his lone wild rider in, thinking it would somehow get a better result than the shooting (I don’t know why, I guess he thought he got the charge bonuses or something).  I left it out because I couldn’t remember exactly when/how it happened. 

Lessons learned (aside from those already noted above):
1.  Army composition matters, I didn’t put much thought or effort into it.
2.  Boy did I miss having the hellheart.  Boy did I miss having any magic items at all.  I didn’t realize how much I have come to rely upon them in my playstyle (I started out taking naked characters with my Ogres back when I started…not so much anymore).  It was a good learning experience.
3.  Waywatchers are quite pesky and should be dealt with from the start.  Glade Guard could have waited.
4.  I should have focused on keeping him in front of me, potentially even ignoring the watch tower until later stages of the game and cleared more of his army off the table.  If I know he is brining scouts, throw the damn cats in the corners so he cannot go there.
5.  My understanding of the Wood Elves was fundamentally flawed, and my opponent used his eagles VERY well to redirect stuff.
6.  All of my losses are in the stupid Watchtower scenario.  WTF? 
7.  Carelessness hurt me, a lot.  As did “helping” him to identify his mistakes in the early stages of the game (it was more than just the placement of his waywatchers, there were many ‘you might not want to do that’ suggestions in the first 2-3 turns).
8.  I typically don’t care if other people roll my dice, why the hell not?  I am not a suspicious person.  But, still, I think I will make spell markers for the LotGM to avoid using dice as markers in the future.
9.  There was a conversation about the use of Lords in a 1500 pt game on the forum recently.  I was surely glad for the BSB as well as the Ld 8 SM and his spells.  If I had brought just a Tyrant or a level 2 wizard, the game would not have been as favorable, and/or I would have needed a much different play style.
10.  Why didn’t I clear him from the tower, and then exit and continue pounding his army???  Drat.

Well, thanks for reading and feel free to post if you see something where I did something wrong so I can learn.

Hey Havoc

Thanks for taking the time in writing up the report.

I think you were putting yourself at a disadvantage by restricting your magic items.  Secondly getting a good plan in your head (denying the waywatchers) and then not sticking to it!  Great Eagles Vanguard?

Turn 1 – You’ve already identified the error of the Sabretusk, shame the poor guy was sacrificed in vain.  Also the Leadbelchers would have been steadfast because they had a rank.  Whoops. 

Turn 2 – Ouch. 

Turn 3 – Let’s be honest, wouldn’t he have just fled with the Eagle and Glade Guard had you re-directed?

Turn 4 onwards – Refer Turn 2.

5.  My understanding of the Wood Elves was fundamentally flawed, and my opponent used his eagles VERY well to redirect stuff.

Not really, he only did it once.

If I had brought just a Tyrant or a level 2 wizard, the game would not have been as favorable, and/or I would have needed a much different play style.

You simply can’t speculate that.  You may have had more units, hellheart, luck, etc.

Thanks for putting up the report.

Hey Jimmy,

I just assumed the great eagles vanguard since he did it, I didn't know better to call him on it.  I will have to check the next time I have access to the WE book.  Damn, oh well.

I actually didn't know anything about the waywatchers before hand, I just assumed I could ignore them the way I ignore most skirmishing/bow-wielding little things.

Crap, I totally didn't even think of the fact that I had a complete rank and he did not!!!  Holy $#!@, another mistake (as an ogre, I very often discount the ranks thing for steadfast because I always assume that I have less than the opponent.  In retrospect, this actually may have made a difference in a number of games I have played...)

And yes, he would have likely fled, or maybe not...but oh well.  With regards to the eagles, he also had done a decent job with the left most eagle's positioning to prevent overruns, and looking back through my pictures, I actually was slightly off in the battle report: his turn 1 move actually put the bird in between the Sabertusk and the MF, and that is why I didn't attempt the charge around his eagle, as it looks like I could have managed according to the graphics.  I went off memory in battle chronicler, and forgot I took pictures to reference.

Man, I've got to up my game a bit it seems.  I claim temporary dumbness, as I was in "help your opponent mode" as he claimed he just was trying to learn the army and how it moved (he is normally a Warriors of Chaos player) and I just wanted to get a feel for his army.  So, mission accomplished in that sense, I did learn.

Thanks for the response and reading.

All good mate, I often am the hub for ogre stupidity so don't feel bad at all.