Multiple combats and shrinking units

I'm not sure if this is the right place but here's a general rules question.  The actual armies involved are Ogre Kingdoms and Dwarfs but it could be any army.  The facts:

The diagram below illustrates the layout of a combat in which I charged a unit of Dwarf Hammerers (H) in both the flank and rear with my units of Ironguts (O).  The Dwarfs had overrun a Sabretusk into a unit of ogres in the prior turn.  The L L is a Dwarf lord on shield bearers.  There's actually another rank of Hammerers; I just can't fit them.

----OOOO
----OOOO
----OOOO Rear
OOOH
OOOHHHHHH
OOOL LHHHH
-------OOO Front
-------OOO

Okay, impact hits from rear unit kill the rear rank hammerer leaving the rear charging unit of ogres stranded.  They cannot be moved because the flank unit of ogres is in the way. 

Would my rear charging unit simply be stranded or would the rule for multiple combats and shrinkage apply, causing the defending unit to be moved?

The opponent argued that moving his unit back would leave a flank charging Irongut that his Lord was in BtB with out of combat (though the unit would still be in combat, just one less irongut) and therefore not possible.  I would assume then, if the Lord were one column over, we could nudge his unit?  Doesn't seem right.

I argued that since no whole unit was being denied attacks it was within the rules for multiple combats.  His Lord wasn't in contact with any characters nor locked in a challenge.  Moving his unit would be a simple nudge, which would then cause my forward unit to nudge in pursuit, so to speak.  Is there a rule I missed?

T.O. sided with the opponent so my unit was out of the fight.  Hammerers beat my other ogres and ran them down.  I still won the game but was denied many, many points.

What should have happened?  What if his lord would be moved out of contact with my character or champion?

The TO was correct.  You need to try and keep units in combat as much as you can, but the tidy up "eating the corn cob"  moves can only be push ins or slides, not both.  The way you could have prevented this is to set the flanking unit further down, using diagonal contact, to leave room for the eventual casualties.

But more importantly, remember that incomplete ranks count as the footprint of the complete rank for engagement purposes, so the rear chargers could have maximized farther to the right and never had an issue pushing in.  Even though there were no models actually in contact, you count is as if there were models in those empty spaces as long as at least one model exists in the rank.  Lining that up correctly would have prevented this issue entirely.

PS- This should be moved to Might Makes Right sub forum.

Phazael, thanks for the reply!

What rule are you referring to in that restriction of "push ins or slides, not both"?  It would only slide the defender backwards, since I cannot move forward.  Then my front unit would slide forward to re-engage? 

Would it be under maximizing in combat?  I don't have my book handy at the moment...

My reading of his indicates your rear charge could(should) have been completed like this.

-------OOOO
-------OOOO
-------OOOO Rear
OOOH
OOOHHHHHH
OOOL LHHHH
-------OOO Front
-------OOO


In this case, as you pop Hammerers out of the unit, nothing prevents your rear chargers from moving forward to continue engaging, as opposed to the original diagram where they cannot slide forward without running into their own unit.

Been a while since I replied on this but I haven't resolved my issue.

Emergency Rations, of course I could have aligned differently.  However, in this case, I am not aligned that way.

I'm still looking for a rule or something as to why the dwarf unit would not be moved into contact.  Maximizing is only done on the charge wheel.  Units are only moved when not doing so would leave a unit out of combat.  The only rule that says characters can't move are for Make Way! since if you're in base contact, you can't Make Way!

Any thoughts?

I think the point that Emergency Rations was making is that the alignment of your rear unit does not maximize models in contact, and was not correct.  He provided a diagram of the correct way to maximize the rear charge, which if done would have prevented the stranding of the rear unit.  It is not a "could have aligned differently" issue, it is a "must align differently" issue.

If some other factor (terrain, other units, etc) forced the rear charge to be completed without maximizing (resulting in your original diagram), then here is my opinion:  The rear ironguts should have been nudged to the side and forward to maintain contact with the hammerers.  Per pg 61 of the BRB, the attacking unit is nudged to maintain contact by as small an amount as possible, with the restrictions that it cannot alter the facing the attacking unit is in base contact with (such as from rear to flank), nor can it change the attackers formation.  a nudge to the side (to avoid clipping the flank unit of ironguts) and forward to maintain base contact with the hammerers does not violate these restrictions and fits the instruction to nudge as small amount as possible.

I think the TO should have pointed out that your charge failed to maximize properly, which was the true source of the issue. 

If the issue developed due to obstructions that forced the charge to maximize in this way, then I think the TO should have ruled to nudge the rear ironguts past the flank ironguts to maintain contact. 

If additional obstructions prevented that (say if there was terrain beside the rear ironguts preventing the nudge sideways), then I think the TO would have to rule to move the hammerer unit (even allowing the dwarf lord to have 1 less model in BtB).

-Snark

PS:  Having gone through all that, I want to mention that we all know that TO's are people and can make mistakes in their rulings.  Regardless of whether you think your TO has made a mistake, please be quick to say, "Thanks for your ruling", move on with game play, and hold any further discussion (if needed) until after the tournament.

Thanks, Snark!

So my diagram was a little lacking and I'm sorry, its hard to really give the whole picture.  The hammerers were either 6 or seven across and with 4 ogres across, my frontage is actually quite larger than the diagram would show.  I was maximized but I chose to be shifted over to reduce attacks on the SM... silly move in hindsight!  I should have moved the flanking Ironguts first to position the rear charge better.

I would disagree that the Ironguts would be shifted over - my book is at home but I remember the word forward being used somewhere.  Or it would make sense that only forward movement is permitted in this case.  Probably wrong though.

As for the TO, that's what I did.  At that point the ruling is final and I move on.  I will however bring it up to him next time I see him to clarify.