Maneaters or Mournfang

What is better in the current meta 6 maneaters or 4 mournfang. It is for a skrag list

Both!

Ok enough fun and games, I'll be honest, it does depend a lot on YOUR meta, YOUR list and YOUR playstyle. Mournfangs are more survivable, hit harder when charging if they are equipped properly and are also a tad bit faster. IMHO, they are incredible at flank charging or combo charging. They are also firepower magnet in my (somewhat limited) experience. People see them coming and want to somehow take them out of the game. They have one major weakness and that is their low leadership. They have to operate close to the general if possible or make sure that a lone Sabretusk isn't going to flee close to them.

I haven't used the Maneaters yet but from what I gather, they bring more utility, thanks to the possibilities of gear and Been There Done that rules. They also have better WS, Strength and Attacks. They can shoot effectively which is really nice because it brings you a little bit more flexibility. You don't have to rush in a precarious position, you can wait one turn for support or a better angle because their shooting, while not incredibly strong, can take out chaff, lone characters and probably a warmachine too.

In the end, I'm planning on getting both units in my 2500 list, the best of both worlds!

Basically that ^. I would have thought you should be able to get both units in for 2500pts. If I was really pushed to answer I would go Mournfang. But the answer is really both. 

G_H

Another point: how many other Ogres do you play against?  Man-Eaters (properly equipped) slaughter Mournfang.  That being said, Man-Eaters require a plan to use best.  MFC you plop on the table and you know what they do and how they should do it.  You need to plan what to do with your Man-Eaters. 

If you're running a Skrag list with lots of Gorgers, then some Scouting Man-Eaters might be fun and fit the theme.

Scouting MEs with a Skrag list would probably be a good strategy to try, maybe even 2 units. One with scout the other with vanguard.
MFC are tried and true shock cavalry, you know what they can do, your opponent knows too and the game becomes do they have the tools to deal with them or not. If yes, can you overcome that?

Basic Pistol Poison Stubborn Maneaters will outperform MFC in every phase of the game.  The amount of damage these guys can put out is ridiculous and they are an immediate ranged threat to every monster, war machine, or support unit in the center of the board.  While not as mobile as the MFC, they are ultimately more durable, in terms of WS, Wounds per point, and Leadership dependency.  More importantly, you can bunker a critical character, like a BSB or General, in the unit and rest assured that the unit will fight to the last man, unlike MFC who have an annoying tendency to run when one of them gets cannon sniped away from the table center.  They are, without a doubt, the single best unit in our entire book.

As for MFC, they are hardly a bad unit.  In fact, look up some of Big Juan's batreps where he runs pairs of them on his flanks for a really good example of using them to full effect.  They just have serious leadership issues and cannot ever afford to be flanked.  And if you are going to put MFC in the center of your army anyhow, you may as well just put a maneater block there and plop your general/BSB in there anyhow, since it won't have far to move to get into the fight.  The only time I would consider MFC to be better is if your entire army is designed to get into combat by turn two, but I am not sure that is the best way to play Ogres these days with the elf infested meta.  Waywatchers will make you pay for that in spades.

This is probably the most hotly debated topic in the history of the army, though.  I can certainly see the other side of the argument.  I just happen to prefer a unit that can operate independently and is providing immediate offense.

I take both honestly.  I think they are both better than other options (leadbelchers and yettes).  Gorgers and sabertusks are entirely different.

At the risk of getting my butt flamed off, I am going to say that Leadies are arguably better than MFC, especially when paired with Heavens or Fire (Flaming Sword) magic.  They are as good in a fight as bulls but with the long range threat factor of Maneaters.  With the rising popularity (and power) of elf armies, I think they are tactically better than MFC.

It's an interesting and reasonably good point there Phazael. I have always loved Leadies and in reality they are ogres with guns and that range is very useful depending on the army you facing.

There does seem to be an increase in the number of Elf armies hitting the tables, neither a good or bad thing, and leadies can actually do some damage here. Also, in combat they are ogres with all the paunch and fight that that entails. Like you have said; when backed with a loaded Firebelly they can be quite effective.

It is only in recent times that I have been sold on the use of the MFC w/ DHB. I have used leadies much more than Mournfang....mind you I have lost allot of games too!

I don't think the use of a decent unit of Leadies backed with a Firebelly should be underestimate though.

Good point well put.

G_H

Its because of the elf meta that I've been putting a unit of 6 or 8 leadies as the first entry to every list. Even vs non elf opponents they put out enough firepower to savage most any infantry block they are across from. WoC players hate having to take 5 models out of a unit that only started at 18

I'll definitely second Phazael's opinion that Leadies are arguably better than MFC.  Heck, he's seen my Leady army .  Before the new WE book, leadies were one of the top three ranged units in the game, and solid, durable ranged support is something that every army needs.

At the risk of getting my butt flamed off, I am going to say that Leadies are arguably better than MFC, especially when paired with Heavens or Fire (Flaming Sword) magic.  They are as good in a fight as bulls but with the long range threat factor of Maneaters.  With the rising popularity (and power) of elf armies, I think they are tactically better than MFC.

Agree completely.

Upon our books release, MFC were dominant.  The meta at the time was hordes of Str 4 infantry, which were the perfect targets for our monster cav.  But as new books have been released, we have seen the introduction of Demigryphs and Skullcrushers, which both will easily kill our MFC, as well as a prevalence of things like cannons and trolls to deal with the common 1+ armor saves (and of course our MFC).

I think Poison/Swiftstride Dragonhide Maneaters with a mix of GW and AHWs (or pistols) is a better unit than the MFC in nearly every way.  Their one weakness being T3 shooting.  Thats where the Leadbelchers (and Firebelly) become very effective.  Move 6" + shoot 24" with Str4 AP shots (and the occasional fireball) will force your opponent to make the choice:  shoot the leaddies and die from the maneaters, or shoot the maneaters and die from the leaddies.

I still think MFC could have a place in an optimized all comers list, but that place is probably in units of 2 (w/ HA+IF) being used as a sort of "heavy chaff".

-Snark

I feel like the 2+ AS MFC can have is getting overlooked. My meta is filled with oodles and oodles of str 3 ranged and close combat attacks. My maneaters constantly get widdled down to a nub, while the MFC get their full 2+ AS and 6++ parry. For me, it's no comparison that MFC are better.

As for leadbelchers, I started using them a lot, but less so now. I think they are great at lower point games. But at higher point games, it's usually always won or lost in the close combat phase. And our magic just helps us win in that phase.

At the risk of getting my butt flamed off, I am going to say that Leadies are arguably better than MFC, especially when paired with Heavens or Fire (Flaming Sword) magic.  They are as good in a fight as bulls but with the long range threat factor of Maneaters.  With the rising popularity (and power) of elf armies, I think they are tactically better than MFC. 

heresy!!

Seriously tho I think that they are for different roles. Plus I have never really seen the effectiveness of leadies. Sure they can make large numbers when rolling well but I use averages. They are also good if flaming mannies have stripped a regen save earlier.

my poor maths...

6 leaddies = 21 shots
generally will be at long range = 7 hit
Vs T3 = 5 wounds done
for 240+ points I want to do more than 5 wounds to T3 models.  (ok say its 10 wounds if they fire for 2 turns).

leaddies have little armour and can be counter shot easily by small arms and cannon vs MFC 2+ save and only really fear cannon and lore of metal. However leaddies also have 2 more wounds for the points per MFC.

whereas
4 MFC
4D3 S5 impact = 8 hits = 7 wounds
12 S4 attacks hit on 4s = 6 hits and then 4 wounds lets say 3 if they have 5+ armour.
16 S5 attacks hit on 4s = 8 hits and then 7 wounds
4 S5 stomp = 4 wounds
the above is without the DH banner. Could add in another 3 or so extra wounds done at least.
10 wounds that may not do much really in the game vs 22 wounds in 1 round of combat.

vs T3 I always go the MFC if points are tight.

One thing I've found annoying me is that MFC are often a bit too cumbersome at times to get where I want them to go, and if they encounter anything that can harm them they'll struggle.

Sounds obvious, but this is also a fairly expensive unit as far as things go, and since they benefit the most from the Dragonhide Banner people tend to put it on them and suck up the extra 50 points of loss more often than if a more stable unit of Ironguts were carrying it. Leadies are cheaper and pretty good value for the most part, though I don't tend to use them much.

I might experiment with units of 2 MFC - see if I can use them in a more dartlike fashion.

Roc, your math is correct, but bereft of tactical considerations, like the fact that the Leadies can exert their influence from turn one safely within the bubble of leadership.  The issue with MFC is getting them into the right fight without them being panicked or magically debuffed into childhood.  No one is disputing what a pristine unit does to an optimum target.

Roc, your math is correct, but bereft of tactical considerations

yep that sums how i play =)

Seriously tho I think that they are for different roles. Plus I have never really seen the effectiveness of leadies. Sure they can make large numbers when rolling well but I use averages. They are also good if flaming mannies have stripped a regen save earlier.

my poor maths... (cut out math portion comparing MFC to Leadbelchers)

10 wounds that may not do much really in the game vs 22 wounds in 1 round of combat.

Those 10 wounds can be pretty impressive if they come in two turns of shots at Dark Riders and Doomfire Warlocks, which the MFC may not catch either of those two groups for the entire game. As you say, they are for different roles.

Just realised that in this context (a Skrag List), there's a chance the Mournfang might be better, as they'll be able to slam into any unit the Gorgers pin down without much interference.

Of course, that does depend on what else is in the list...

How do you guys rate the following ME unit?

6x Maneaters
3x GW; 2x additional HW
Full command, +1 Movement banner
Scout, Swiftstride

Basically a very hard hitting scouting cavalry unit. Load-out is so that it fits in a specific 2000 points list.

I'd rather have 4x AHW across the front and nothing on the last two. Chances are they will die anyways before getting to swing, and S5 is still plenty for most targets especially when you are rolling 20+ attacks and have impact hits and stomps.

I'd swap out Scout for Poison or Stubborn, since you don't want them running off and getting murdered in isolation. Swiftstride should already keep you doing pretty well.

I'd rather have 4x AHW across the front and nothing on the last two. Chances are they will die anyways before getting to swing, and S5 is still plenty for most targets especially when you are rolling 20+ attacks and have impact hits and stomps.

TBO I3 isn't great in my Meta. Against 2 out of 3 opponents they will hit last in any case. Atleast S7 will deal with units with  AS of 3+ or better.

I'd swap out Scout for Poison or Stubborn, since you don't want them running off and getting murdered in isolation. Swiftstride should already keep you doing pretty well.

Scout is so that they are in combat ASAP. They will die horribly to shooting and getting a potential flank or rear  charge with them is what I need. The idea is that they will be used in a double charge with MFC or Ironguts so I don't think combat res should be a problem??

Could work, but my concern is that the battle and the opponent might not allow that double charge to happen, ya see. I can see it being useful if you're against a lot of shooting, but Elves might like you being close enough to not worry about the long range penalty...