Charging unit behind a mangler squig

Just a quick question last night played orcs and this situation arose and we could not find anything in rule book or any where else to help us . My mate moved his mangler towards me then put a unit of 10 savage orc boar boys behind it, my mournfang 4 of em are opposite and easily in charge range and i can see a boar model either side of the mangler.Can i charge the unit behind the mangler cause i can clearly see them or is the mangler preventing me from doing this.Also if i can charge them do i have to get all in base contact with the boar boyz unit which would then mean i have to move into contact with the mangler thanks 

A mangler is the same as any other unit, you can't just move through it. So assuming you roll sufficient range on the charge, you have one wheel of up to 90° to get at the boar boys and the way you described they likely won't all be in base to base. You have to get as many as possible of course but there's no sliding anymore so the frontages could very well be off center.

If you have the charge range and can make contact by taking only 1 wheel of up to 90 degrees and closing the door, you absolutely can. But as the Viking points out, you still have to attempt to maximize models in contact, and a charge the way you describe it would be quite sub optimal and not really worth it, but if the maximum models in contact is low it does not prevent you from charging.  Just don't try the sliding stuff anymore

Ok thanks for the replies but just to make sure I got this right I could of charged and just got one mournfang into contact with the boar boyz cheers 

I do not have my rulebook handy, but I am fairly certain that there is nothing in the book that says that you MUST charge the closer of two units, or that you may not charge a unit that you cannot get all of your models into contact with.  Indeed there are a whole bunch of rules to dictate how to get as many into contact as possible and that specify that you cannot charge if you cannot complete certain portions. 

TO my knowledge, the only time you are required to charge the closer of the two is due to a failed Frenzy test, but that is only required if you are not already declaring a charge.

Yes, you may charge if you see 1 model and if the 1st wheel (may be done after some inches (around the corner charge)) and the straight line after that will touch at least 1 model of boars. Even if it is only tipping the corner.

Maximizing on the charge is: with getting the 1st wheel turned to that degree, that the straight line and closing door that follows, will get as much models in contact of both units as possible.

After 1st round of CC the winner is allowed to reform first if he chooses so, with the loosing unit to follow, if still applicable. Here you can see the sliding units.

Cheers it makes more sense now on the night we just rolled a dice for it cause we could not find anything to confirm either way.I lost the dice roll but then moved a sabretusk into contact with the mangler so both were killed.In their turn he tried to charge my mournfang but failed bit of karma there i think lol and then i charged him next go and got 12 impact hits lol killed 9 even before combat bye bye savage orcs must admit the boars were tasty nice and tenderised 

You can charge through a Mangler.

"Mangler Squigs cannot be charged, but models can move into contact with them.  Any unit that moves into contact with Mangler Squigs takes 2d6 ... (details on mangler maiming your guys).  The Mangler Squig model is then removed, and the unit may carry on with its move."

So you'd declare the charge on the boyz behind the mangler, hit the Mangler, cop the wounds, then carry on if you have any survivors.

You can charge through a Mangler.

"Mangler Squigs cannot be charged, but models can move into contact with them.  Any unit that moves into contact with Mangler Squigs takes 2d6 ... (details on mangler maiming your guys).  The Mangler Squig model is then removed, and the unit may carry on with its move."

So you'd declare the charge on the boyz behind the mangler, hit the Mangler, cop the wounds, then carry on if you have any survivors.

So you are saying i would have to go through the mangler and take the 3d6 hits then move onto the boar boyz behind even tho i could see a model either side of the mangler.I know i would only get one mournfang in base contact but the plan was to do this and then just move my sabretusk into contact with the mangler and get rid of it that way but cause we could not agree on the night we rolled for it as explained below

  on the night we just rolled a dice for it cause we could not find anything to confirm either way.I lost the dice roll but then moved a sabretusk into contact with the mangler so both were killed.In their turn he tried to charge my mournfang but failed bit of karma there i think lol and then i charged him next go and got 12 impact hits lol killed 9 even before combat bye bye savage orcs must admit the boars were tasty nice and tenderised 

He just mentioned that he would go through the mangler... That is his choice.

You can charge through a Mangler.

"Mangler Squigs cannot be charged, but models can move into contact with them.

I don't think charging and moving are the same. There's several differences that come to mind, namely disregarding the actual distance moved and the one inch rule when charging. I'll have to check my books when I get home.

A charge is a move, as part of the movement phase.

@deeteekay: absolutely your choice.  More that you can charge through the Mangler, but if you can make your wheel and clear it, more power to you.

hmjesus you are entirely correct. I read through the relevant parts of the book again and it seems a charge could be called a special sort of move, like fleeing or compulsory movements are special moves, but still considered moves.

Now this got me thinking. The following rules apply to charging:

1) There must not be obstacles preventing completion of the charge movement. Enemies do not count if there is a chance they will be removed. 
2) You are allowed an unlimited amount of movement and one wheel of 90° (followed by closing the door) to contact the enemy.
3) You must bring as many models into base contact from both sides as possible.
4) You do not have to keep 1" away from enemy units when charging.
5) You may not move into base contact with an enemy unit you have not declared a charge against.

Points 1 and 5 are relevant here. The mangler's special rules neatly address both of these, as it will explode when it is hit, and moving into base contact with the mangler is allowed.

Having established that it is legal to charge through the mangler, my question is: Does point 3 require you to charge through the mangler (to maximise base contact), or can you opt to go around?

Hooray!  I don't mind being wrong, as it means I learn something, but it's nice to be right.

I'd say you have to get as many models in as possible, but they don't have to be the middle guys.  if you can wheel, hit and close the door in such a way that maximised your contact and dodged the Mangler, then go for it.  Otherwise it's Mangler city.

I personally prefer copping the Mangler on a Sabretusk charge, let the tusk die then move my guys in.

The original plan was to charge the boar boyz with my mournfang and only get one into contact and then move my sabretusk into the mangler then at the end of combat we could of reformed so all mournfang and boar boyz were in base contact 

The original plan was to charge the boar boyz with my mournfang and only get one into contact and then move my sabretusk into the mangler then at the end of combat we could of reformed so all mournfang and boar boyz were in base contact 

Ah, then that would be happy mangler squig times for the Mournfang (since it is possible to run through him and bring all the lads into combat)

Will be playing against savage orcs again this sat so if this comes up again i will take some photos to show the situation alot clearer well i will take photos anyway and put em in my gnoblog 

Please post the link in this thread...Thanks

As I read it you must charge through the mangler if that is required to maximize models. Charging the sabertusk also and letting him hit the mangler is the way to go if possible. maybe keep one beside the mournfang next time you face O&G.

So if two units of 10 High Elves archers are almost standing next to each other. But, only the right unit is with 2 models behind the left unit. Both facing you.

Then you say to maximize models on the charge, I'm only allowed to charge the left one, where I can maximize 100%. ...HUH.

You may charge anyone, even if you can only clip base to base with 1 model of the unit, after completing the charge...
Move number of inches, angle up to maximize, move to get in contact, close the wheel. You do not have to take the 1" distance rule into consideration on a charge move.

The original plan was to charge the boar boyz with my mournfang and only get one into contact and then move my sabretusk into the mangler then at the end of combat we could of reformed so all mournfang and boar boyz were in base contact 

If to maximize models in combat you have to go thru the mangler you would have to do it. You can't "go around" it and get less models in combat just to avoid taking some damage. Dems da rulz...... Just shoot the critters or sacrifice da kitties.....

The original plan was to charge the boar boyz with my mournfang and only get one into contact and then move my sabretusk into the mangler then at the end of combat we could of reformed so all mournfang and boar boyz were in base contact 

If to maximize models in combat you have to go thru the mangler you would have to do it. You can't "go around" it and get less models in combat just to avoid taking some damage. Dems da rulz...... Just shoot the critters or sacrifice da kitties.....

Yes, but it also states that you cannot come into base to base contact with an enemy unless you charge.  It never says you cannot charge if you cannot maximize models, quite to the contrary it says that you move to avoid other units and terrain, get one wheel and close the door, and this must get as many in BtB as possible given the moves necessary to avoid contacting impassable terrain, friendly or enemy units.

Check out page 20, "therefore this wheel cannot be used to reduce the number of models in base contact, UNLESS of course you have no choice, and you need to wheel for the unit to AVOID INTERVENING UNITS and impassable terrain in order to complete the charge."

and pg 22 where it says that under no circumstances can a unit use it's charge move to move into contact with an enemy it has not declared a charge against.

Totally legit and required to go around

Except a Mangler doesn't intervene, as it's not stopping you from passing through.  The mangler's own rules mean it doesn't obstruct the charge, you just cop angry angry mangler squig to the face.