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I have seen similar threads around the webz and it works wonder - any quick rule question can be asked and answered here. No lengthy discussions and anything (in that case make a new thread : )
Whenever you need a fast clarification or forgot a special rule or whatever ask away here.
I'll start the ball:
During a charge, when can I make my 'free' wheel? Should I start off making my wheel towards the opponent and then move straight ahead or can I move forward eg. 3", then make the wheel and then move into base contact and 'close the door'?
Gnoblar Gnoblog
just-josh14 Apr 2014
Brilliant idea Joakim! Thanks for this
In answer to your question, I am fairly sure the rule is that you can make the free wheel at any point in your movement, so the latter of your two options
JJ
Resident Smiley Spam Artist and Fastest Fingers in the Stronghold.
Raising the forum's smiley count, one post at a time, since 2008
Quote from: Shadowlord on Mar 11, 2013, 01:57:18 PM
After all, painting 100 night goblins is something you do in the morning just before you are off to work.
And I think you missed a 0 when you wrote 11 armies. The correct nr should be 110 armies I would think, based on your painting speed.
BigOgre14 Apr 2014
I do believe that Joakim knew the answer already.... just to get the ball rolling But yes at any point of your move. That is why you can do the 'round the corner charge.
Can't think of a follow up question
Games played with Ogre Kingdom: 1 W15 L6 D1
just-josh15 Apr 2014
I do believe that Joakim knew the answer already.... just to get the ball rolling
Fair point!
Okay, not sure if this is for here or not, but... Do Wood Elves have access to any form of Flaming in their book? Be it Magic Item, Special Rule or Spell?
JJ
Resident Smiley Spam Artist and Fastest Fingers in the Stronghold.
Raising the forum's smiley count, one post at a time, since 2008
Quote from: Shadowlord on Mar 11, 2013, 01:57:18 PM
After all, painting 100 night goblins is something you do in the morning just before you are off to work.
And I think you missed a 0 when you wrote 11 armies. The correct nr should be 110 armies I would think, based on your painting speed.
hmjesus15 Apr 2014
Aside from the Banner of Eternal Flame that everyone gets, there's also Rageth's Wildfire Blades (two hand weapons with flaming).
Most recent result: Victory. 2000 Points vs High Elves
W | D | L 33 | 3 | 29
Snarkhunter16 Apr 2014
Aside from the Banner of Eternal Flame that everyone gets, there's also Rageth's Wildfire Blades (two hand weapons with flaming).
And Ruby Ring of Ruin.
Wildcards's Ogre achievements: 78/101
8th edition: 71/17/9 Recent results: My ogres go 5-0 at Brawler Bash VII and 3-2 (2nd Best General) at Southern Assault 2014
Tyrant Grix13 May 2014
They also have a flaming arrow that is +1 to wound either forces of order or disorder (only one or the other). I believe we are safe from this lol. Aside from the flaming part.
MasteroDisaster13 May 2014
Don't Wood Elves also now have access to the entire Lore of Fire?
Mr. Cthulhu13 May 2014
Don't Wood Elves also now have access to the entire Lore of Fire?
Correct, Woodies have access to all the BRB lores as well as High and Dark Magic. Their 'firepower' has gone up significantly. (hehe, fire puns)
So! If my character decides to charge out of a unit that has the banner of +1 M, do I get the boosted M for the banner in the charge roll since I'm still in the unit when charging?
They call me MR. Cthulhu! AAAAAHHHHHHH!
Snarkhunter13 May 2014
So! If my character decides to charge out of a unit that has the banner of +1 M, do I get the boosted M for the banner in the charge roll since I'm still in the unit when charging?
Unfortunately, no. Your character leaves the unit prior to the Charge Reaction stage, which happens before the Roll Charge Range and Move Chargers stage.
-Snark
Wildcards's Ogre achievements: 78/101
8th edition: 71/17/9 Recent results: My ogres go 5-0 at Brawler Bash VII and 3-2 (2nd Best General) at Southern Assault 2014
Joakim15 May 2014
When placing a template within eg. 30" of a war machine or wizard, should the whole template then be within 30" or it is the center of the template that should be placed within 30"?
Gnoblar Gnoblog
Thrag15 May 2014
The centre of the template must be place over the centre of a single model within its given range
nells19 May 2014
Last friday I played a 3k game. I had a hunter riding a stonehorn. My dwarf opponent flew a gyrocopter and shot his flame template over the hunter/stonehorn. He thought that both the stonehorn and hunter should take a str 3 hit. I thought you roll a dice. 1-4 it's the stonehorn, 5-6 it's the hunter. Who is correct?
MasteroDisaster19 May 2014
Last friday I played a 3k game. I had a hunter riding a stonehorn. My dwarf opponent flew a gyrocopter and shot his flame template over the hunter/stonehorn. He thought that both the stonehorn and hunter should take a str 3 hit. I thought you roll a dice. 1-4 it's the stonehorn, 5-6 it's the hunter. Who is correct?
Templates hit both the Monster and Rider, if it's normal shooting then it's 1-4 Mount, 5-6 Rider. (Page 105 of the mini rulebook under Characters and Ridden Monsters)
Nihmwit20 May 2014
4 Mournfang with the Dragon Hide Banner declare a charge at a unit of archers. The Archers elect to stand and shoot, putting 2 wounds on the Mournfangs, who then roll two 1s for armor saves. Since this is done before rolling for charge distance (and determining if the charge is successful), the Dragon Hide Banner doesn't allow them to reroll their armor saves! Crap...
Joakim20 May 2014
What is the base size of the Dark Elf pegasus? It comes on a 50x50 base but used to come on a 40x40. The ETC faq ruled a 40x40 I recall but I havent seen the new version. It is more or less pick and choose?
Gnoblar Gnoblog
MasteroDisaster20 May 2014
I've played against a few Dark Elf players in my time and they have always had their Dark Pegasus on 50x50 bases. A friend also uses Morathi and she's on a 50x50 as well. This is by no means concrete evidence but just my observations.
Joakim20 May 2014
I've played against a few Dark Elf players in my time and they have always had their Dark Pegasus on 50x50 bases. A friend also uses Morathi and she's on a 50x50 as well. This is by no means concrete evidence but just my observations.
Sounds solid. With the new warlocks having the 50x50 is a major boost for ranks but that should not be confused as an argument for the proper base size : ) For (some kind of) consistency I like the term "base size as supplied by GW" which is now 50x50
Gnoblar Gnoblog
hmjesus20 May 2014
The GW official ruling is the base size it came with (as their assumption is that you'll always buy GW).
But that does allow for 50mm Tree Men, 25mm Heroes on Pegs (Bretonnia) etc.
Most recent result: Victory. 2000 Points vs High Elves
W | D | L 33 | 3 | 29
Mr. Cthulhu20 May 2014
Which is what allows player X at my local store to play with OOP Chaos warriors on 20mm bases...
They call me MR. Cthulhu! AAAAAHHHHHHH!
henning23 May 2014
If a unit has the flaming banner, are their impact hits also considered to be flaming?
Also, would the mounts' attacks be flaming?
MasteroDisaster23 May 2014
As far as I'm aware the mounts would gain flaming attacks as they are part of the unit however things such as stomps, thunderstomps & impact hits don't benefit from special rules so you wouldn't get flaming impact hits.
DrunkenAussie23 May 2014
I would say yes they do. BRB pg 71 Impact hits are close combat attacks (albeit of an unusual type) and any unsaved wound count towards combat res just as conventional attacks would
Ogres, cause whats better than livin in the snow and drinking
Joakim23 May 2014
I would say yes; flaming attacks on the mount too and impact hits but not stomp (stomps does not gain any special rules).
Gnoblar Gnoblog
Jimmy26 May 2014
I'm sure impact hits do as the Tomb Kings can get killing blow impact hits on their chariots which is never pretty.
"Nec sorte nec fato"
Ogre Battles!
Tactica: Sabretusks Tactica: Gnoblars
grey templar26 May 2014
Yup, impact hits can benefit from special rules all the time.
Stomps don't because they explicitly do not benefit from special rules(although spells/items besides weapons can increase your strength)
Current win streak: 10
Things Fluffy has flattened: Ancient Stegadon, Unit of 5 Chariots with Tomb king, Chaos Lord, Herald of Khorne on Jugger, x58 Forever steadfast (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(") This is Bunny________ This is bunny after a Thunderstomp
Snarkhunter26 May 2014
I'm sure impact hits do as the Tomb Kings can get killing blow impact hits on their chariots which is never pretty.
Skrag has KB Impacts as well.
Wildcards's Ogre achievements: 78/101
8th edition: 71/17/9 Recent results: My ogres go 5-0 at Brawler Bash VII and 3-2 (2nd Best General) at Southern Assault 2014
Valoraxe27 May 2014
Gorebeast Chariots (Warriors of Chaos) also have Killing Blow Impact Hits.
But that's because it is explicitly stated in one of its special rules that it does. Check the Impact Hits chapter and see what it says.
MasteroDisaster27 May 2014
Of course! I play WoC, I should know that! My bad!
Valoraxe27 May 2014
Of course! I play WoC, I should know that! My bad!
Aw hell naw!
Choombatta27 May 2014
I've played against a few Dark Elf players in my time and they have always had their Dark Pegasus on 50x50 bases. A friend also uses Morathi and she's on a 50x50 as well. This is by no means concrete evidence but just my observations.
Ooops. Morathi does indeed come on a 50x50mm base for Sulaphet, although she is the only model in the DE line on a pegasus. I assumed that most DE players ( like myself ) used Brettonian Pegasi for their dark pegasi, and those are indeed on 40x40mm bases. Looks like I have some (more) base sizes to change in 8th edition ( damn Juggernauts, etc. ).
BigOgre02 Jun 2014
Another one....
Enemy Skaven unit of slaves is lurking behind a brick wall... Mournfang make a successful charge :-)
Except for the minus 1 to hit, only in the 1st round of CC, does the brick wall do also something to the impact hits. Or are impact hits resolved as normal?
Games played with Ogre Kingdom: 1 W15 L6 D1
Snarkhunter03 Jun 2014
Defended wall's do not affect the impact hits of Mournfang, unless you lose a model due to the dangerous terrain tests you must take (for each model in contact with the wall when completing the charge).
-Snark
Wildcards's Ogre achievements: 78/101
8th edition: 71/17/9 Recent results: My ogres go 5-0 at Brawler Bash VII and 3-2 (2nd Best General) at Southern Assault 2014
henning03 Jun 2014
In CC, do you resolve challenges at initiative order or first in combat?
Also, if two models hit at the same initiative and one has a flaming weapon which causes a wound, would the regeneration be negated for the other models wounds as well?
Joakim03 Jun 2014
In CC, do you resolve challenges at initiative order or first in combat?
It should not make any difference at when a character is in a challenge he/she cannot be attacked even if the challenge has ended. If you want to be strict the player whom turn it is decides (if it should not go by initiative which I am not sure of but it would make the most sense) as it could matter for attacks coming later whether it is a good idea to attack RnF to get combat resolution if the challenge didnt go well or to spend remaining attacks on other characters.
Also, if two models hit at the same initiative and one has a flaming weapon which causes a wound, would the regeneration be negated for the other models wounds as well?
No. they would strike at the same time and only wounds caused later (at lower ini steps) have regen stripped.
Gnoblar Gnoblog
henning03 Jun 2014
In CC, do you resolve challenges at initiative order or first in combat?
It should not make any difference at when a character is in a challenge he/she cannot be attacked even if the challenge has ended. If you want to be strict the player whom turn it is decides (if it should not go by initiative which I am not sure of but it would make the most sense) as it could matter for attacks coming later whether it is a good idea to attack RnF to get combat resolution if the challenge didnt go well or to spend remaining attacks on other characters.
It would matter as the challenge may cause Regen to be stripped.
Joakim03 Jun 2014
In that case it would. Then strictly playing initiative should be used!
Gnoblar Gnoblog
BigOgre03 Jun 2014
Defended wall's do not affect the impact hits of Mournfang, unless you lose a model due to the dangerous terrain tests you must take (for each model in contact with the wall when completing the charge).
-Snark
Knew there was something :-)... knew it and forgot about it. ...Thanks
Games played with Ogre Kingdom: 1 W15 L6 D1
DrunkenAussie04 Jun 2014
If Skrag becomes unbreakable does he have to leave the unit as the unit is not unbreakable.
Ogres, cause whats better than livin in the snow and drinking
Lexy04 Jun 2014
If Skrag becomes unbreakable does he have to leave the unit as the unit is not unbreakable.
No, as he doesn't join the unit, when he is unbreakable, he already is in the unit. The unit itself doesn't become unbreakable by him still being in it, so he could still break with the unit he is with.
Cormorant on thundertusk ASL rule
Quote from: Cormorant on Aug 24, 2011, 05:46:24 PM
Now all we need is the 7th edition rule that said if the models are killed they don't get to fight and we WOULD be a broken army! lol
Ogre achievements: 41/101
deeteekay04 Jun 2014
If you win combat and the enemy flee say 10 "they flee through a unit say 6 " behind i decide to pursue and roll 11 " which takes me into contact with his new unit do i still catch and kill the the unit that fled cheers
dtk
Joakim04 Jun 2014
If you win combat and the enemy flee say 10 "they flee through a unit say 6 " behind i decide to pursue and roll 11 " which takes me into contact with his new unit do i still catch and kill the the unit that fled cheers
dtk
I am rather sure that the fleeing unit will get any and you will use the pursuit as a charge into the unit blocking you 6" away, unless the unit panics when the fleeing unit goes through.
Gnoblar Gnoblog
BigOgre04 Jun 2014
True true...
You both roll the distance at the same time. If you roll higher then the fleeing unit, the opponent can immediately take away his unit from the field. You move 6" and make contact with the unit you were talking about.
If he rolls 10" and you 9", then he lift-moves his unit over the other unit and you make contact with the unit you were talking about. Dont forget to take his banner of the fleeing unit :-)
My question in addition.... When you pursuit and you know by measuring upfront, that your unit will make contact with another enemy unit... Do you have to resolve it as a charge move, meaning, determine which flank you will hit, opening wheel in that degree to maximize contact, move and closing wheel.
OR turn to the direction the fleeing unit had to run to (centre vs centre line) and move the inches rolled for and stop the move without closing the door, when you touch the other unit....Hmmmm
Games played with Ogre Kingdom: 1 W15 L6 D1
deeteekay05 Jun 2014
True true...
You both roll the distance at the same time. If you roll higher then the fleeing unit, the opponent can immediately take away his unit from the field. You move 6" and make contact with the unit you were talking about.
If he rolls 10" and you 9", then he lift-moves his unit over the other unit and you make contact with the unit you were talking about. Dont forget to take his banner of the fleeing unit :-)
My question in addition.... When you pursuit and you know by measuring upfront, that your unit will make contact with another enemy unit... Do you have to resolve it as a charge move, meaning, determine which flank you will hit, opening wheel in that degree to maximize contact, move and closing wheel.
OR turn to the direction the fleeing unit had to run to (centre vs centre line) and move the inches rolled for and stop the move without closing the door, when you touch the other unit....Hmmmm
so you are saying as long as i roll high enough to catch fleeing unit they die even if i get into contact with the other unit and cant got the full distance rolled
dtk
BigOgre05 Jun 2014
Yep... same and higher rolled, then you get them in immediately at the start of the flee move.
Games played with Ogre Kingdom: 1 W15 L6 D1
Jimmy05 Jun 2014
OR turn to the direction the fleeing unit had to run to (centre vs centre line) and move the inches rolled for and stop the move without closing the door, when you touch the other unit....Hmmmm
This I think. It's a not a charge until you hit the other unit so from that moment you close the door etc and start the pain train rolling again.
"Nec sorte nec fato"
Ogre Battles!
Tactica: Sabretusks Tactica: Gnoblars
Havoc18 Jun 2014
True true...
You both roll the distance at the same time. If you roll higher then the fleeing unit, the opponent can immediately take away his unit from the field. You move 6" and make contact with the unit you were talking about.
If he rolls 10" and you 9", then he lift-moves his unit over the other unit and you make contact with the unit you were talking about. Dont forget to take his banner of the fleeing unit :-)
My question in addition.... When you pursuit and you know by measuring upfront, that your unit will make contact with another enemy unit... Do you have to resolve it as a charge move, meaning, determine which flank you will hit, opening wheel in that degree to maximize contact, move and closing wheel.
OR turn to the direction the fleeing unit had to run to (centre vs centre line) and move the inches rolled for and stop the move without closing the door, when you touch the other unit....Hmmmm
BRB states that if you pursue/overrun into another unit it is treated like a charge move, so you would wheel and close the door and so on. Pg 56-57 state that you would catch them before they fled, and they would be removed. Then on page 57, it states that you pivot to fave the center of the fleeing enemy and move in the direction of the fleeing enemy even if they where caught. Then on pg 58 it specifically states that you will follow all rules for a charge move, pivot, wheel and maximize/close the door if the pursuit move would bring you into contact with an enemy unit.
BigOgre19 Jun 2014
Yep, that is how I explain it aswell (see earlier posted.) Another warhammer dispute most of the times I run into is...
If you put a magic spell on a unit and in his turn, one of his charachters is leaving the unit (charging, skitterleaping, lore attribute shadow, normal moving out, etc, etc...)
Is the spell sticking to the character, or not. Or depends it on the type of spell.
Games played with Ogre Kingdom: 1 W15 L6 D1
Gnoblar_Herder20 Jun 2014
Could a warmachine pivot 180 degrees and shoot a gorger that just showed up behind it? My understanding is that the pivot can only be within the 90 degrees of LOS from the cannon. Seems silly they can wheel around and smack an ambusher
G_H (on behalf of Conogre)
Conogre21 Jun 2014
^ The whole idea of it just turning and insta killing a gorger just makes me feel like they aren't worth it. Yet multiple people have told me that they are the answer to empire gun lines. The cannons in this instance are helblasters and great cannons.
YOUTUBE: http://www.youtube.com/user/Connman613
Gutlord Inquisitor21 Jun 2014
Yep. True war machines (cannons, hellblasters etc) can freely pivot before firing. Indeed, they don't have a front 90 arc per se.
With gorgers, you're banking on them having difficulty killing it in one round or hoping to at least distract the enemy from shooting more important things. But yeah, gorgers aren't seen an awful lot.
Blargag_Gutsmash21 Jun 2014
Issue: Numbing Chill (TTusk aura) Question: So, in the BRB it states that unless otherwise noted by individual rules, that special rules don't stack. An issue came up regarding a unit of Dark Elves with great weapons (So, ASF and ASL to cancel each other out), that was in range of the TTusk's aura (which grants ASL). I was thinking that they didn't stack because it already states that rules don't stack, but the DE player was like 'nah brah, ASL and ASF cancel each other's affect so you have the ability to make them ASL with the aura, instead of striking at initiative'.
I've been reading through the BRB and can't seem to find the spot where it says that they negate each other, but my initial instinct of 'special rules don't stack unless noted' is still sticking around in my head. Am I correct in that thought?
MAVV21 Jun 2014
Issue: Numbing Chill (TTusk aura) Question: So, in the BRB it states that unless otherwise noted by individual rules, that special rules don't stack. An issue came up regarding a unit of Dark Elves with great weapons (So, ASF and ASL to cancel each other out), that was in range of the TTusk's aura (which grants ASL). I was thinking that they didn't stack because it already states that rules don't stack, but the DE player was like 'nah brah, ASL and ASF cancel each other's affect so you have the ability to make them ASL with the aura, instead of striking at initiative'.
I've been reading through the BRB and can't seem to find the spot where it says that they negate each other, but my initial instinct of 'special rules don't stack unless noted' is still sticking around in my head. Am I correct in that thought?
You are correct here. You can not have ASL/ASF twice, so the execs would still strike at initiative.
henning23 Jun 2014
I don't agree. As per the FAQ, ASL (numbing chill) cancels ASF (innate ability of Elves) out. Then the Exec's great weapons still infer ASL to the wielder when he strikes causing him to strike last.
MasteroDisaster23 Jun 2014
I don't agree. As per the FAQ, ASL (numbing chill) cancels ASF (innate ability of Elves) out. Then the Exec's great weapons still infer ASL to the wielder when he strikes causing him to strike last.
This is categorically wrong. They do not cancel each other out. They just negate each other's effects, ASF and ASL are still affecting the character, the abilities aren't removed, they simply cancel each others effects. ASF + ASL = Striking at Int. order. ASF + ASL + ASL = Still striking at initiative order. Multiple sources of ASL/ASF do not stack.
DrunkenAussie23 Jun 2014
@MasteroDisaster they 2 rules cancel each other out so they strike at initiative
Ogres, cause whats better than livin in the snow and drinking
Gutlord Inquisitor23 Jun 2014
This is categorically wrong. They do not cancel each other out.
Heh, I actually agree with your conclusion but the exact text is "If a model has both [ASL] and always strikes first, the two cancel out and neither applies so use the model's Initiative."
The argument is that if they cancel out the model counts as having neither and can acquire another copy of either.
I don't think this works though, because say a model with ASF within range of a thundertusk, gains ASL. They still have ASF and if the thundertusk dies or moves out of range they haven't lost ASF so it applies again.
henning26 Jun 2014
This is categorically wrong. They do not cancel each other out.
Heh, I actually agree with your conclusion but the exact text is "If a model has both [ASL] and always strikes first, the two cancel out and neither applies so use the model's Initiative."
The argument is that if they cancel out the model counts as having neither and can acquire another copy of either.
I don't think this works though, because say a model with ASF within range of a thundertusk, gains ASL. They still have ASF and if the thundertusk dies or moves out of range they haven't lost ASF so it applies again.
Like Gutlord said, as per FAQ they actually do cancel each other out. Obviously not permanently, only as long as the Thundertusk is close enough. Thus my argument that a secondary ASL can be obtained. Think a FAQ is needed for this case
LawGnome26 Jun 2014
Like Gutlord said, as per FAQ they actually do cancel each other out. Obviously not permanently, only as long as the Thundertusk is close enough. Thus my argument that a secondary ASL can be obtained. Think a FAQ is needed for this case
Sadly, I think that you are using the wrong definition of cancel. You are thinking that they are cancelled as in removed. I think what is actually meant is cancel as in negate.
As an example, lets take a hypothetical elf unit. At its base, it has ASF, and it functions normally. If we give it a magic weapon to give it ASF, he now has 2 instances of ASF, which means he has the effect of ASF, and thus has ASF. No matter how many times you give him ASF, it is going to function like normal ASF.
Now lets add in a thundertusk. The thundertusk gives him an instance of ASL. He now has ASL and 2 different things giving him ASF. ASL negates ASF. The rule is still there. He has still has the rule for ASF on his model, and he still has the rule for ASL on his model. The two rules negate each others effects, so now they don't work.
Hopefully that helps a bit. You aren't removing ASL and ASF from the model, you are just negating their effects.
MasteroDisaster26 Jun 2014
Like Gutlord said, as per FAQ they actually do cancel each other out. Obviously not permanently, only as long as the Thundertusk is close enough. Thus my argument that a secondary ASL can be obtained. Think a FAQ is needed for this case
Sadly, I think that you are using the wrong definition of cancel. You are thinking that they are cancelled as in removed. I think what is actually meant is cancel as in negate.
As an example, lets take a hypothetical elf unit. At its base, it has ASF, and it functions normally. If we give it a magic weapon to give it ASF, he now has 2 instances of ASF, which means he has the effect of ASF, and thus has ASF. No matter how many times you give him ASF, it is going to function like normal ASF.
Now lets add in a thundertusk. The thundertusk gives him an instance of ASL. He now has ASL and 2 different things giving him ASF. ASL negates ASF. The rule is still there. He has still has the rule for ASF on his model, and he still has the rule for ASL on his model. The two rules negate each others effects, so now they don't work.
Hopefully that helps a bit. You aren't removing ASL and ASF from the model, you are just negating their effects.
This was basically what I was trying to get at with my earlier post. The context of the word cancel is important.
LawGnome26 Jun 2014
This was basically what I was trying to get at with my earlier post. The context of the word cancel is important.
Yeah, I was hoping an example would help it be a little more clear.
Sidgurd28 Jul 2014
Is a breath weapon used in addition to the rest of your attacks in CC?
I.e Impact - Pot of speed - breath - attacks - stomps.
Like that?
Gutlord Inquisitor28 Jul 2014
Yes. And it hits at your own initiative which may not be when your attacks are if using a great weapon for example. Normally it will be at the same initiative so will be simultaneous.
Note that a potion of speed is taken at the start of the turn and will affect all your attacks including breath weapons.
Emergency Rations30 Jul 2014
If I cast Flaming Sword of Rhuin on a firebelly, and he breathes in the next shooting phase - is the breath magical?
I can't come up with a great situation to use this (unless some White Lions forgot to pick up their standard issue Banner of the World Dragon) but it could come in handy
MAVV30 Jul 2014
If I cast Flaming Sword of Rhuin on a firebelly, and he breathes in the next shooting phase - is the breath magical?
I can't come up with a great situation to use this (unless some White Lions forgot to pick up their standard issue Banner of the World Dragon) but it could come in handy
Flaming sword makes CC/shooting attacks magical -> breath weapon is a shooting attack -> magical flaming breath. Seems pretty cut and dry to me
Emergency Rations30 Jul 2014
I thought so, just wasn't convinced I hadn't missed some obscure breath weapon rule preventing it
Tomecruncher02 Aug 2014
Hi,
thought I'd try this here before making a new thread.
Can hunters join other hunters to form a unit?
Or am I mixing up 40k rules of characters?
Snarkhunter02 Aug 2014
As a basic rule, characters can form units with other characters.
Hunter's have a restriction (the "Loner" rule), which says they cannot join other units, except for a Sabretusk Pack.
If you wanted to join multiple hunters together in a unit, you have to add a single Sabretusk.
-Snark
Wildcards's Ogre achievements: 78/101
8th edition: 71/17/9 Recent results: My ogres go 5-0 at Brawler Bash VII and 3-2 (2nd Best General) at Southern Assault 2014
hmjesus02 Aug 2014
Which would have the added perk of giving the hunters Vanguard for 21 points.
Most recent result: Victory. 2000 Points vs High Elves
W | D | L 33 | 3 | 29
Tomecruncher02 Aug 2014
Thanks for clearing that up.
Looks like I will be adding so of the big cats to my next purchase.
michaeljohn09 Aug 2014
My question is, how do multiple wound wounds work out on units? Can a dude with a single wound left 'tank' a multiwound hit of "3 wounds" and not give this over to his buddies? I'd like to have some pages/faq-lines and the such if it is not too much work!
Thanks in advance,
MichaelJohn
hmjesus10 Aug 2014
From memory (and being too lazy to go check) I think he could tank a 2 wound hit, as that wouldn't remove a complete model anyway, but I think the 3 Wound takes off 1 whole Ogre. Could be wrong though, and I'm obviously not going to be opposed to the extra 2 wounds being wasted.
Most recent result: Victory. 2000 Points vs High Elves
W | D | L 33 | 3 | 29
Emergency Rations10 Aug 2014
Unless he's a character (or champion), models don't carry their own wounds - the unit does.
A unit has two wounds and is hit by an attack that does multiple wounds d6 that rolls a 4. You can't do more than 3 wounds to an ogre (number of wounds on his profile, look in the rulebook under multiple wounds), so a total of 3 wounds are done to the unit, removing an ogre and leaving 2 wounds on the unit.
Same unit then takes a multiple wounds d6 hit that does 2 wounds. One model is removed and a wound carries on the unit.
hmjesus11 Aug 2014
I always thought multiple wounds worked differently, where you remove whole models first and excess is lost. As opposed to doing the same as multiple shots (being largely the point of grapeshot). Otherwise Ironblasters just became much more amazing against Wood Elves, because while they're only single file, I can do 6 wounds to 1 poor bastard and wipe out 6 Elves for my trouble.
Most recent result: Victory. 2000 Points vs High Elves
W | D | L 33 | 3 | 29
Emergency Rations12 Aug 2014
That's not what I said, you cannot do more wounds to a model than it has on its profile (...okay, you can overkill in a challenge but that's not what we're talking about here and even then multiple wounds doesn't work that way)
When you resolve attacks with a multiple wounds weapon, you figure out how many wound each attack did and then add those wounds to the unit - this is why Conrad (Vamp character) and his multiple wounds (2) weapon is great against ogres and mediocre against... almost anything else.
If Conrad swings at a unit of ogres, hits 4 times and successfully wounds three times, he will do 6 wounds to an ogre unit, resulting in two dead ogres. If he did the same against a skaven slave bus, he would have done 3 wounds - because even those each wound does two wounds, the slaves only have one wound to lose.
It is an abstraction, it does kinda suck for ogres, but its how it works. Rank and File models do not have any wounds.
hmjesus12 Aug 2014
Ah, my bad! Apologies for the misunderstanding.
Though I would assume since he does 3 successful wounds, each doing 2 wounds, would he not deal 4 wounds to one model and 2 to the other (since otherwise he's doing more wounds to a single model than that model has), resulting in 1 dead ogre and one mangled. That's also how I've always treated flammable, as the other way it doesn't make sense to apply that to a multi wound model, but not to a single wound.
Most recent result: Defeat. 2400 Points Swedish vs Tomb Kings
W | D | L 33 | 3 | 30
Emergency Rations12 Aug 2014
He's never attacking a model, he's attacking the unit.
Now if he attacked a character with 4 wounds and hit 3 times, he'd do 4 wounds and the last two would be wasted (unless he was in a challenge, in which case you get overkill)
hmjesus12 Aug 2014
I understand, though the BRB does say (and the emphasis is mine)
"If a unit of creatures with more than 1 Wound on their profile is hit by a weapon that causes multiple wounds, determine how many wounds are caused on each model individually (remember that each model cannot suffer more wounds than it has on its profile). add up all the wounds caused on the unit and then remove the appropriate number of models, noting any spare wounds on the unit"
So in the previous case, you'd be taking 1 model from the unit over its maximum wounds with the 2 hits dealing 2 wounds each, but you can't split 1 hit between 2 models.
For reference: P45 of the small rulebook.
Most recent result: Defeat. 2400 Points Swedish vs Tomb Kings
W | D | L 33 | 3 | 30
Havoc12 Aug 2014
I agree with hmjesus on this one. The wounds from a Multi wound weapon cannot carry over to other models, which is stated in the rule book. If you have a wounded model, the unit takes a hit from a multiwound weapon, you are totally fair in removing the wounded model and ignoring the rest of the wounds, as you must remove whole models. You are actually required to do so as written right now.
I cannot say I always agree with the rule as written all the time, but if it were the case that the multiple wounds carried over to the unit, then the ironblaster example above is quite appropriate. No player would ever say "that d6 wounds from the Cannon shot carries over to the whole unit, not just the guy hit" as it explicitly states to the contrary in the book...despite that he is hitting the unit and not a lone character. Multiwound in close combat is not an exception to the rule. It takes Conrad 2 hits to kill an Ogre, and wounds cannot carry over to another model from a multiple wound hit, just like the rules for shooting any number of template weapons (bolt throwers, cannons, stone throwers, ect).
Emergency Rations12 Aug 2014
I'm not going to argue any more after this post, I yield, but I will make one last argument.
I see a difference between a single model ignoring excess wounds (ironblaster) versus my example with Konrad. With Konrad each individual swing does not do more wounds than a model has, so no excess is lost. With the ironblaster against elves, even if I hit 6 ranks of elves, each cannonball shot cannot do more than one wound, because the models don't have more than one wound.
As for that rule page, I read it as 'after each multi wound, make sure that you don't count up wounds beyond what could be done to a single model' - this is the 'I can't do 4 wounds to an ogre, so I only did 3 with that d6 wound' rule.
Yeah, this means he can kill 2 ogres in 3 swings, but I can kill him by beating up the guys next to him, so I'm okay with it.
SeBM16 Aug 2014
Ok so here goes:
1) I shoot my Ironblaster at a Dragon Mage. Do both the mount and the rider get hit?
2) The Thundertusk needs to shoot all of his ranged attacks at the same target right?
Armies played: Ogre Kingdoms and Lizardmen Record in 8th : W / L / D Ogre Kingdoms: 10 / 2 / 0
Komone16 Aug 2014
1) and 2) Yep although n reference on me.
To add though: Cannon on the TK Casket? Who gets hit? All?
K
My Campaign Idea: Have a look and feedback! http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=18336.0
Snarkhunter18 Aug 2014
1) and 2) Yep although n reference on me.
To add though: Cannon on the TK Casket? Who gets hit? All?
K
1 + 2 are both correct.
RE: Casket of Souls - It's a war machine. The casket guard and keeper of the casket are just crew, same as the 3 crew members of an empire great cannon. So it hits the casket, not the crew, but wounds done to the casket result in the removal of crew. The TK player may choose which crew members to remove as wounds are received (usually they will leave the keeper of the casket for last).
-Snark
Wildcards's Ogre achievements: 78/101
8th edition: 71/17/9 Recent results: My ogres go 5-0 at Brawler Bash VII and 3-2 (2nd Best General) at Southern Assault 2014
Snarkhunter18 Aug 2014
I'm not going to argue any more after this post, I yield, but I will make one last argument.
You shouldn't yield, you were correct.
Other than a character/champion/other unique model in a unit (like a Kroxigor in a Skink unit), models do not have their own current wounds. The unit has the wounds. A Multiple Wound weapon caps at the wounds on the profile of the target. Since that musician in the front rank has not been wounded (although his unit does have 2 floating wounds), the cannon must do 3 wounds to remove him and continue to the 2nd rank.
See here for another instance where this was discussed (check out that really intelligent Reply #5) --> http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=25437.0
Also you can read here --> http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=21170.0
-Snark
Wildcards's Ogre achievements: 78/101
8th edition: 71/17/9 Recent results: My ogres go 5-0 at Brawler Bash VII and 3-2 (2nd Best General) at Southern Assault 2014
Sidgurd23 Aug 2014
Do thunderstomps affect Ogres?
Emergency Rations23 Aug 2014
Do thunderstomps affect Ogres?
Nope. see page 76 (in my little rulebook) 'otherwise treated exactly like a stomp'. Stomps only work on swarms, infantry and war beasts.
LawGnome24 Aug 2014
If I have 8 ogres and a butcher in a unit with full command, and I set them in a 3x3 formation, can I have the butcher in the front rank, or do I have to have all of the command models up front?
Emergency Rations24 Aug 2014
Yes, he has to go in the second rank (page 97 of my little rulebook 'position in the unit'), can't sit him on the corner for miscasts unless you run the unit 4 wide
However, make way happens before impact hits or anything else in combat, so we've got that going for us for stronger characters (aka not butchers)
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