Hellcannon

Can a Hellcannon pivot and fire or does the pivoting count as moving so stops it shooting?

It is a monster so any movement counts as moving but shoots as a stone thrower which can pivot and shoot so I see the argument for both sides but now that the FAQ section has disappeared from the GW site - I have no point of reference.

I have a Chaos Dwarf army and for the last year have played it that it cannot pivot so have had to set up in a corner to use the front arc for shooting but then played a warriors player the other day who spun round to shoot my general who was to the side of the hellcannon and he argued that it has the rules of a stone thrower so can pivot and shoot. As it was I was too close to shoot anyway so it didn't affect the game but I need confirmation now.

Any help with evidence would be helpful

For all intents and purposes I'd pretend the FAQs are still there if said FAQ resolved this issue. This early into the fracas (FAQas?) there's little point picking off old scabs unless it becomes apparent that they aren't going back up.

The problem is I don't have a copy of the old FAQ so I cannot remember what it said.

I know some charitable chaps have put up their saved versions on various forums - I know there's a guy who's done that for 40k over on Warseer. It may be worth having a ferret round, but my own personal approach would be to let it pivot.

I'd always let it pivot bt make sure you know where your opponent stands. If he won't let you do it then make sure you deploy with best line of sight so you don't get caught out in game.

This is a simple question but one without a satisfying answer.

There was indeed a FAQ that the hellcannon could pivot to fire but for the previous book. There was no such FAQ in the one for this edition of the chaos book. That said, the wording for firing the hellcannon didn't change either so make of that what you will.

In a broader sense the hellcannon is one of a wide range of non-warmachine units with warmachine weapons. Exactly which rules apply from the war machine rules to these units is hard to tell because they use the term "war machine" both for the unit type and the weapon. This was somewhat cleared up with an errata regarding the slow to fire and move or fire rules but pivoting is another question.

More than just the rules, the intent of the rule is probably that hellcannon can pivot but for other war machines is more dubious. How players play it is also very variable. Many players pivot their hellcannon (because that's how it's always worked) but few people pivot ironblasters or steam tanks and no one pivots large monsters like soul grinders and thundertusks.

In the end therefore you need to figure it out for yourself. We discussed it at length for the USA masters FAQ and while we reached a consensus that the RAW leaned towards pivoting, most people played that they couldn't so we ruled it that way (it matched the ETC ruling too, as I recall). This left hellcannon not being able to pivot.

I'd always let it pivot bt make sure you know where your opponent stands. If he won't let you do it then make sure you deploy with best line of sight so you don't get caught out in game.

+1

Going by the FAQ it actually looks like your original interpretation was right:

"Q: Does pivoting on the spot count as movement for the purposes of
units, other than war machines, with the Move or Fire rule?(p73)
A: Yes."

And the Hellcannon has Move or Fire on it's blasty thing profile.

Yeah but the hellcannon counts as a war machine for some purposes while firing (it must). And do they mean the unit type or the weapon?

Games Workshop has confirmed that FAQs will be back up eventually.

In the meantime, the FAQs consisted of either outright errata (correcting printer's errors) or clarifying what the intent behind rules-wording was in specific situations. They don't really "change" any rules on their own, so even while they're not on the website I think they're as binding as they ever were. Which itself probably changed from group to group already.

I've always played the Hellcannon as if it were Monster. It's not a War Machine, therefore if it moves at all during the movement phase it cannot fire it's weapon. By the same logic the unit is a Monster so it shouldn't be subject to the pivot rules War Machines get during the Shooting Phase regardless of weather or not the weapon fires "like" a War Machine, the unit type is categorically not a War Machine. If the Monster carrying the Move or Fire weapon has moved then it can't fire as per the Move or Fire rules. Keeps it fairly simple without breaking down every rule in the book to try and get some sort of an edge. Be smart and deploy it in a sensible place and it wont be an issue, especially bearing in mind it can still fire at anything within it's forward arc and range.

I've also always applied the same logic to the Ironblaster. Move and pivot during the movement phase, as it's a Chariot it can't pivot during the shooting phase regardless of the fact it's packing the most badass cannon in the game, it's still a Chariot. Again though, you have the forward arc for targeting so it's not that difficult to get a cannonball down the throat of your intended target.

Keeping it simple and avoiding the rules lawyering often leads to less arguments and more fun when you're at the table. At the end of the day this is a game and should be enjoyed. People who want to argue with common sense or a minor tactical advantage usually aren't worth playing with in my experience.

To the OP, I'll let it pivot in the shooting face, if it had not moved in the movement fase. If it had moved, he should have thought twice about it to which direction it is facing, when finished movement.

The druchii have all FAQs in the portal of their forum site, easy to select

http://www.druchii.net/portal.php?sid=6eed62fdf250b94520fd36a3f999b6a4