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Empire Book Overview - My opinons

original thread ↗

General Book Opinion

Empire is a book full of great possibilities and choices. It really is the jack of all trades army and has an infinite number of army build ups. It is a fairly strong book choice but not the best at the ball. Rating its power is hard overall because it just has SO MUCH to offer. I would easily give it a 6/10 in terms of power compared to the other books. Remembering it is an army made up of just men so its overall average in terms of stats. However they bring a large number of toys to the party, and this gives them the edge they need to win.

ARMY BOOK SPECIAL RULES

Regiments and Detachments- With this rule, certain units can be deployed as sort of a back of or offshoot of the main unit. So I have UNIT A Swordmen unit, i can add unit B archers on to this unit. Now all detachments will share a few abilities if the regiment they are attached to have them .A model in unit B must be deploy within 3" of UNIT A and is deployed at the same time. Now the benefits to this set up comes in the abilities of Support Fire and Counter charge. Supporting fire allows the detachment to make a stand and shoot as if they had been charged, and all unsaved wounds from this will count towards a heavy casualty panic test. Counter charge is just that, the detachment makes a charge against a unit that charged its regiment immediately after they resolve THEIR charge. The enemy unit does not get to make a charge reaction, but all bonuses and rules will still apply.

LORDS AND HEROES

General of the Empire - This guys pretty much your standard lord choice. Greats stats and a ton of customization choices. The special things for these guys is HOLD THE LINE!, any unit he is rolls 3d6 for break tests and subtracts the highest. Makes for tough units to break.6/10 Pretty standard lord with a nice ability built in and access to some nice toys. Doesn't go above and beyond tho.\

Captain of the Empire - Identical to the general in every way except 1 less wound and LD, these guys are definitely worth it if you want a beater.7/10 With a good price drop and only minimal stat decrease these are a good solution to what ever your lord/heroes needs are.

Battle Wizard Lord - Your usual high priced level 3 that is an even higher priced level 4, the big thing about the empires magic users is they can choose ANY lore from the book. This kind of access is great to fill whatever roll you need filled. But the level 4 option is always costly so im going to leave these at a 6/10, I generally prefer multiple small casters to one big one. Opens more options to play around with and in Empires case that's a LOT of options.

Battle Wizard - Little brother to the Lords, these guys are pretty darn efficient. Good cost, lots of options and access to any lore they want. 7/10 still a squishy but cheap enough to wont care, and great customization options.

Arch Lector - The battle priests of the empire are really quite annoying. They are cheap, they have built in spells that are AMAZING which i will go over in place of the lore section, and they have decent combat stats for a man of the cloth. 4's across the board pretty well, any unit containing one of these will be an uphill fight. 7/10 The lectors biggest hinderance to playing these is the battle priests are exactly the same for cheaper just 1 less wound and 50 points less on special toys. However only a lector can ride in the War Alter of Sigmar, so that alone may sway your decision. But we will get into THAT later

Battle Priest - The hero version of Lector. Cheap, tough, and a must have for your main hammer units these make the battle sway in your favor big time. 8/10 Easily an auto include if you plan on running any kind of foot soldier hammers.

Grand Master - Essentially this is the Lord of all cavalry in a province. Statline wise has +1 str and +1 attack on the general everything else is pretty much identical, but he already comes equipped with his toys. Full plate, a barded steed, and Immune to psyc. Any unit of Demigryphs or Knightly Order he joins gains Immune to psyc while he is in it. He is quite expensive and cannot be geared out nearly as well as others, but I feel he has his place in a cavalry based army and serves his purpose well. 7/10 He has some stuff he can equip but most of the time he will be decked out in magic items.

Master Engineer - The teachers from the school of Engineering, they are kind of an odd choice. There best ability is they can allow a war machine to use the engineers BS and reroll its artillery dice once, and they get a look out save if they are within 3" of a war machine, which with a war machines high toughness can be quite useful. Other than they they are kind of weak. Think caster stats. But to give them credit they do have great tools such as the infamous Pigeon Bomb >.> Useful choice if you plan on having artillery 7/10.

Witch Hunters - 4's across the board, built in magic resistance and angry with the world of magic. At the start of the game he marks 1 characters and for the rest of the game can reroll to hits against the target, all attacks made against the target have killing blow, and can pick him out as if he had sniper. Ontop of all that he automatically passes all fear tests and any unit he is in treats terror causing models as if it were just fear. He also can reroll to wounds vs Wizard, Undead, and demons. Cheap little toss in choices if your looking to make your opponent sweat. With the slew of abilities and the knowledge that HE IS COMING can be great intimidation. That and giving units he is in MR(2) is a nice addon. 7/10

CORE CHOICE

Halberdiers - Cheap S4 shock troops, a great choice if your looking for a bit of a smashy core unit. Well priced I would rank them as an 8/10.

Spearmen - Tried and true spearmen, nothing special about these really. Priced about what they should be 6/10. With other choices that are more interesting hurts these .

Swordsmen - With a better WS than other foot soldiers and already built in shields, they are priced well and make a solid anvil unit. 6/10, maybe 6.5/10.

Crossbowmen - First of the many ranged units there is not much to say about them. Good strength, great range. They are great in small units and make great detachments. 8/10

Handgunners - A bit shorter range however these guys can go through armored stuff a bit easier. the champion of this unit has a bunch of great upgrades available to it. 8/10 These are great as stand alones or detachments. My personal favorites.

Archer - Kind of the black sheep of the empire family of range. These guys have a shorter range and a lower strength, but also a lower cost. That being said 5/10, I feel the other choices are just plain better and unless your looking to run a big horde of ranged.

Free Company Militia - Untrained, undisciplined, and WILD. These guys are dirt cheap with dual hand weapons. These guys can throw out a great amount of attacks and are cheap enough that running them in a large horde is easy. 7/10 Angry angry peasants that are not happy to be on the front lines. Dangerous fodder.

Knightly Order - A strong core choice if there has ever been one. 1+AS due to plate and your normal human statline. The thing i love about these is they are core cavalry that can take great weapons. This makes them especially dangerous. ASL is not a problem when you have a 2+ armor save to keep the majority of the troops safe and when you DO swing back you know your going to be hitting hard. Better yet you can UPGRADE one unit of Knights into Knight of the Inner circle altho really all it gives is +1 strength for a 3point a piece upgrade. May not be worth it if you plan on running great weapons.


SPECIAL

Greatswords - Best way to describe these are battle hardened big swingers. They have the armor, they have the weapons, and they have a great WS. Points wise these are a really good deal. 8.5/10  I like these for many reasons, they hit hard and are resilient with a 4+ AS.

Huntsmen - Simple cheap warmachine hunters. Ranged or melee it matters not to these savages. Scouts and skirmishers the smallest you can take them in is a unit of 10, so maybe a little larger than the usual hunters but all the same :D 7/10

Pistoliers - Fast cav and brace of pistols, these guys are heavily overshadowed by there greater counterpart The Outriders.I dont see many reasons why you would not just dish out the few extra points for the better counterpart but there are a few who run for fluff. 3/10  The Outrider is just a plain better choice.

Outriders - These guys are fantastic. Fast cav , 3 shots a piece, and a great BS. Also the champion can have a brace of pistols >.> OR the mighty Grenade Launcher. Its got a low range but packs quite the punch. 8.5/10 There is not much wrong with these guys if anything.

Reiksguard Knights - Expensive but stubborn. These boys will grind until the end and with that great 1+ Empire armor save it could be tough to bring them down. They lack any equipment options tho so that is not so great. 7/10  I prefer Knightly Order but that stubborn really can save the day.

Demigryph Knights - Not quite as powerful as our mournfang they do a very nice job of being annoying to anything that goes up against them. 8/10 These are pretty much standard in every empire army, they are just that good.
Great Cannon - These are infact GREAT cannons. Special choice I dont think you would ever run the full 3, but 2 is completely within the realm of plausible . 8/10 Cannons are cannons and they do the job well.

Mortars - These are a little tougher to judge and rate. The strength of them are low but a large template makes sure you have a great chance of hitting what you shoot at.6/10 They ARE only strength 2 but they can cover a great amount of space.

Flaggelants - On to my favorite unit in this army. These guys literally beat themselves into a frenzy before combat.Frenzied, unbreakable , and ANGRY. If they are in base contact with an enemy unit at the start of combat they BEAT themselves in the form of dealing d6 str3 hits on themselves and depending on how many wounds they manage to deal to themselves they get terrific abilities. From rerolling hits and wounds to gaining toughness. They come with flails standard so first round is crucial. They are a little costly but a large group of them can be especially dangerous. 8/10 Frenzy and unbreakable these will get to where they need to and are not shifted easily,

RARE
Hellblaster Volley Cannon - The better of the two hellblasters, these can pack a punch or they can just suck. Roll 3 artillery to determine how many shots are fired. Strength 5 armor piercing these are among my favorite warmachines. Im a huge fan of chance and best of all rolling misfires is actually not that bad, 1 misfire you just halve the result of the other 2 , 2 misfires you roll on the blackfire chart, however 3 misfires and this thing goes BIG time boom. It fires 30 shots and then explodes in a hail of shrapnel. 8/10 My top choice for this armies artillery.

Hellblaster Rocket Battery - These are a huge hit or miss unit. Some people love and swear by them, personally I fine them not even close to being worth the points. When shooting them roll a d3, this is the number of rockets that are fired.  Next place a small template on a target and roll 1 artillery dice and scatterdice equal to however many rockets are fired. Resolve each in any order you like. They are only Strength 3 tho and no big boom for the middle hole. 5/10 These are a bit to random for me and don't nearly pack the punch they need to.

Steam Tank - These bad boys are rough tough and extremely dangerous. They have just a slue of rules to them, but needless to say the more hurt they are the less dangerous they become. However they are not be taken lightly, I have had 1 of these go through my entire army like it was nothing. 9/10 Easily, maybe even a 10. The only thing that holds these back is once they get a few wounds on them they become a little dangerous to go full strength. They are worth every point you spend on them.

Celestial Hurricanum - Having on gives you an extra power dice during magic, all friendlies within 6" have +1 to hit, and it has a little spell of its own. This is the weaker of the 2 rare chariots, I find its spell to be underpowered.However that +1 to hit bubble and an extra power dice for how cheap it is can be quite handy. If you are tossing it in you are most likely not looking at its spell, rather its other benefits. Plus end of the day its still a ST5 T5 chariot. 7/10. IMO still not as good as the luminark tho :P

Luminark of Hysh - One extra dispel dice, a 6+ ward to all units within 6" and a fantastic spell that is strength 8 Multiple Wound (3) and acts like a bolthrower piercing ranks. 8/10 I like them because they help with dispels , and gives an aura of protection to your units. Plus its spell is actually quite powerful for such a low casting spell.

MOUNTS

Imperial Griffons - Ahh the Griffons, pretty much the symbol of the empire. They stack up fairly well for a monstrous mount. A little weaker than a dragon what I like about them is their high WS and the upgrades. Bloodroar makes your opponent roll an additional d6 for Terror and Fear tests and discard the lowest. This can be quite devastating on terror checks. Two Heads gives them an extra attack that has +1 to hit against large targets. As far as mounts go I would give them 7/10. I would gladly give them an 8/10 if only they had been given an armor save. Even a 5+ would have been fantastic.

Imperial Dragon - This mount is one of a kind and there is only 1 in the whole empire. HOWEVER only Karl Franz is able to ride it and this kind of makes it moot. In terms of stats its a dragon, so that means 6's across the board. 3+ armor, strength 4 Fire breath, all that good jazz. 3/10 Not a bad option, but needing a special character to use it bring it down, and Karl Franz is already an expensive choice.Also you need to be playing a grand army to even have enough points to play him as Karl with Dragon is just over 639 points ;).

Imperial Pegasus - The price on these guys is just right. The upgrades are good as well, Iron Hooves allow reroll on failed stomp wounds and Swift as the Wind allows you to reroll any 1's on the charge unless the rider is part of a unit. I would recommend these for Captains you want dealing with monsters or back rank stuff. 8/10 Its cheap and so are its upgrades. It makes a formidable ally for any would be hero ( or lord :D ).

Warhorse - Um... its a horse. 7/10? A horse is a horse of course of course. I really don't have much to say on them. As i stated its a horse....

Mechanical Steed - Ahh the engineers mount. These are confounded contraptions and you must roll a d6 on every one of your movement phases, on a roll of 1 you lose d3 movement for the remainder of the game. This can make you a very slow person if it only happens even once. Although they do cause d3 impacts if you ever want your engineer to go into combat.... you don't want that by the way ;) 4/10 I would not recommend them unless you plan on running your engineer with a unit of outriders with a Hochland rifle. I did have a player in my group who ran 3 engineers in a unit with these and Rifles, was a very devastating character killer unit.

The War Alter of Sigmar - The Arch lictors very own chariot, this is quite extravagant. Stubborn with a 5+ 4+ for saves makes these tough to hurt or shift. Throw ontop of this some devastating abilities these are one of the best picks for empire. Any unit within 6" of the altar gains hatred AND any of the battle prayers he casts. Also the Arch lictor gets the ability to cast Banishment without fear of miscast. The one upgrade for it giver it terror. 8.5/10 If you plan on running an Arch Lictor this is pretty well a no brainer. Fantastic is most every aspect.

BATTLE PRAYERS
This is sort of empires own lore, battle prayers are the spells Arch Lictors and Battle Priests cast. They are low cost and all VERY good. They are all power level 3, and can be cast as many times as you have priests.

Hammer of SIGMAR - The Priest and his unit rerolls failed to wound rolls until his next magic phase.

Shield of Faith - The Priest and his unit gains a 5+ ward until his next magic phase.

Soulfire - The Priest and his unit gain flaming attacks until his next magic phase. In addition any models in base contact with the priest suffer a ST4 hit, if they are Undead of Daemons it becomes ST5.

ARMORY OF THE EMPIRE

Runefang - Simple, all hits with this sword automatically wound with no armor saves allowed. Expensive but does its job well. I feel its cost is justified, not needing to roll to wound and no armor saves is fantastic, and with this armies access to an easily 1+ AS without the need of magic armor.

The mace of Helstrum - Typical great weapon. +2 STR however you can exchange ALL your attacks for a single STR 10 multiple wound 3 hit with flaming. This weapon is not really cost effective and doesn't add anything big to the picture.5/10

The Armour of Meteoric Iron - Straight up 1+ armor with a 6+ ward. 7/10 This is a great set of armor. It costs just as much as Armour of Destiny, but adds 4 more to the armor but -2 to the ward. 

Helm of the Skavenslayer - +1 armor and causes fear. Against skaven causes terror but skaven gain hatred against the model wearing it. For how cheap it is its not that bad of a pick 7/10 .

The white cloak of ulric - 5+ wardsave, 2+ against flaming AND models are at -1 to hit against it. Its not cheap tho. BUT for an army that has no problems with armor this can make things hard on your opponent. Makes your lord extremely hard to kill. 7.5/10

Van Horstmann's Speculum - While in a challenge the bearer MUST swap its Str,Tou,Ini,and Attacks with the challengee. Depending on the army this is against it can be hilarious. Making a Bloodthirster into a man can be hilarious, HOWEVER becoming a goblin can be just annoying. You get no choice in the matter. Its really a gag/fluff item. 5/10 It swings both ways so its in the middle.

Ring of Volans - start of the game generate a random spell from your choice of the 8 lores. Essentially its a mini Wizarding hat. However it does not make the bearer a level 1 wizard, he just casts as if he was one. I don't mind this on an engineer, and its a decent item to use if your making an all comer list as it lets you tailor at least 1 spell against any opponent. Granted most likely this will be the signature spell from the selected lore. 6/10 Its actually 5 points cheaper than a wizard level, I doubt you will run into it very often but its neat for a gimmik item. '

Griffon Banner - Any unit joined by a character bearing this banner doubles all combat bonuses for ranks however cannot pursue units and must hold their ground instead. Too expensive for what it does. It really needs to add something else. Also you need a BSB to carry this and there are just better choices. If I WERE to run it I would try to combo it with the war banner in a massive anvil unit. It could make for an unmovable unit due to pure combat res. 3 Ranks plus 3 from Griffon, plus 1 from War Banner plus 1 from BSB, your already counting 8 combat res. 3/10

Steel Standard  - No Movement negatives from barding, and rerolling 1's on charges and pursues for a low cost. A great standard if you plan on running a unit breaking cavalry/demigriffon unit. 6/10 Its added bonuses are quite minimal but it helps in a few areas. Nothing special tho, I would prefer to just run Banner of Swiftness for 20 points cheaper.


THINGS US OGRES NEED TO BE CAREFUL OF IN THIS ARMY

So the biggest threats to us ogres are Greatswords, Reiksguard Knights, Demigriffons, Outriders, Greatcannons,Hellblaster volley cannons, Steamtanks and the Luminark Of Hysh. Now this may seem like a lot of stuff, and I will be going in to detail on why and how to counter these things.

Greatswords - Lets start with greatswords and why I think they are a large threat. A unit of greatswords will normally be 3 or 4 ranks large, most likely 7-10 wide and PROBABLY will have a Battlepriest in or nearby in an Alter. We will be swinging before or at the same time as them so that's a plus, but they have better WS than us and have the strength to hurt us even with a toothcracker casted. Also with stubborn even if we beat them they most likely are not going anywhere. My choice ways of dealing with them is Leadies peppering them down. It will cut them down to a 6+ armor and turn them into swiss cheese. Mournfang impacts with DHB will melt a unit of these. You will most likely want to use the breath attack as well to make sure your reducing attacks back. Last but not least The Maw spell. Only at Initiative 3 these will fail half the time, and even at str3 the wounds will pile up. Other than that a swarm of ogres with Bullgorger would do the trick. Yetees are also an ok choice reducing them down to WS3, but not an amazing choice. I would recommend keeping Ironguts away from them, you will be out attacked and have no armor left.

Reiksguard - St4 base and stubborn with a 1+ armor save makes these extremely hard for us to deal with. Toss onto that WS4 these will grind us down all day long and never fear of being beaten in combat and running. For these I would recommend Bonecracker and/or cannons. Units like these are why I wish our gnoblars still had killing blow on ranged.  A lord with massive strength would also work, or iron guts with bullgorger. You need massive ST to punch through that armor. This entire army will be hard to break but these especially are hard on us.

Demigriffons - The usual Monstrous Cavalry however these boast a 1+ armor. So hard to punch through and unlike most of the units in this army, these are actually able to push out its fair share of higher strength attacks. Be careful of your flanks with these around.

Outriders - These will run circles around us and boast a hefty number of STR4 shots. They are fast enough to reach our backlines first turn with a full vanguard and can sniper our puppies or leadies effectively. For these I would just do my best to get into combat quick, fast cavalry are very tough to catch and these have superior fire power.

Greatcannon - Its a cannon, and we HATE cannons. Deal with it as you normally would :D Gorgers,OUR cannons, or good old fashioned bonecracker. Or just run a dog into it, empire soldiers are trumped by our puppies.

Hellblaster volley cannon - The thing that makes these dangerous are the sheer number of STR5 shots coming at us. These can swiss cheese most any unit that has a low armor save if any at all. With even an average roll these could murder a few ogres a turn, which we cannot afford to lose. Deal with them as you would any warmachine.

Steamtank - This is by far the most dangerous tools the empire possesses. High toughness, 1+ armor and 10 wounds. Cannon it down, or ram something with high strength and A LOT of attacks into it. And make darn sure YOU get the charge off, if this thing pumps steam into its movement and gets the charge off you are pretty much mush under its treads. I find a unit of Guts 3x3-4 works very well, especially if you manage to get a Bullgorger off on them. It doesn't matter if your swinging last, as long as your swinging with full ( or as close as you can get it ) strength. Remember you don't need to kill it, just hurt it enough that it is useless and it will usually blow itself up. Bonecracker can also be used to sneak in a wound or 2 for cheap.

Luminark of Hysh - I borderline HATE these things. They are too darn cheap for being so good against us.Gives the enemy an extra dispel dice, its units a 6+ ward, AND its own spell can rip through our ranks like butter. A strength 8 bolt thrower shot at a VERY low cast cost PLUS they are flaming so even trollguts cannot help us. The spells out of this thing are TOP priority to stop normally and I would advise this gets cannoned down before anything ( altho with 5 wounds most likely you will need 2 rounds into it ). Its just a great choice for them against us especially.

This concludes my write up on this book. I will be adding special characters in the days to come, I just want to research them a bit and ask around so I can give you guy's better information on them. Thanks you for reading and I hope you look forward to the next book write up, Lizardmen.




When maw gives you lemons, APPEASE HIM!

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Very well done, I repeat my earlier suggestion of stickying these in one location "Apothecary's Army Book Reviews" sort of thing. Maybe at the beginning of each "know your enemy" thread?
I will disagree with you on the Mortar quite strongly however. While I have never played Empire, my experience against the new incarnation of them has been anecdotally brief they are that underpowered. I faced them twice, and neither time did they do a notable thing, both opponents abandoned them for shelf retirement soon after. Additionally a currently active thread on Warseer regarding worst units for point cost has had several posters mention the mortar if my memory serves me.
Game's the same, just got more fierce.
~ Slim Charles
Yeah, I gotta admit, this completely goes against what the general consensus is on the Empire Forums!

Mainly the Crossbowmen/Handgunners and Archers. The former two rarely achieve much due to their terrible BS and inability to move and shoot, whereas the latter can move much more freely and are harder to shoot, so they make good Wizard bunkers. Kinda similar to why I disagreed with you on TK archers.

Plus, Great Weapons on Knights are a divisive thing. A 1+ armour save is still 2+ against S4, which can matter a lot.

And god are Flagellants hated. WS2 T3 no save makes them very easy to kill, and it doesn't help that they do that themselves too. You need a big unit and then some.


Still, it's interesting to see how the book looks from an outsider's perspective.
Ogres - because who honestly likes 2 wound heroes?
As a long time Empire player I am inclined to agree with  psychichobo. I used to love Flagellants and always found that a big block could be massively useful in a tarpit capacity, but in the new book they were just too easy to kill off, especially when they are doing so much to themselves...

I'm torn on the missile troops; I do like archers and feel like they always earn their points back, even if they are just a bunker. But I have always had massive success with Crossbowmen and Handgunners too, but find they are better used as detachments where they can compliment more combat-orientated units.

JJ
Resident Smiley Spam Artist and Fastest Fingers in the Stronghold.

Raising the forum's smiley count, one post at a time, since 2008

Quote from: Shadowlord on Mar 11, 2013, 01:57:18 PM
After all, painting 100 night goblins is something you do in the morning just before you are off to work.

And I think you missed a 0 when you wrote 11 armies. The correct nr should be 110 armies I would think, based on your painting speed.
Hello all :D

So lets see if i can shed some more light on a few of my opinions

Mortars - Yeah they are quite expensive and only S2, but if your playing any army with hordes of T3 then these are actually quite nice to have around. I cannot remember but what the old incarnations were, but I have seen 2 mortars soften up a few armies. Tomb Kings, VC, Skaven... really any army that is going to have a large number of troops, Oh and I do apologize I was incorrect when i said it had no center hole, it infact has a strength 6 center hole. My mistake. However yes reading the forums does seem to indicate that the masses do not like them. My opinion does not change, however maybe I only have seen them on there best days ;)

Archers vs Crossbows & Handguns - As I stated, archers are more of a bunker type ranged unit meant to house your wizard but if you are using them for that then really they are not being used to the full potential of a ranged unit, you most likely will have them 5xwhatever. Crossbowmen and Pistols however have 1 more strength to their shots, and in the case of crossbows have an extra 6" of range while pistols have armor piercing. I feel strongly that if you want a ranged unit 1 of those 2 will serve you better, while the cheaper Archers will play the bunker role the best, also as archers have the skirmish rule this makes them even better suited to that role.

Greatweapons on Knights - This is actually an argument I have all the time with one of my local hobbyists. I am 100% pro greatweapons on Cavalry, especially cavalry with a 1+ armor save already. Yes you will lose a bit of that save, but you will be striking at str5 every round. And with it only going to a 2+ your save is still extremely good. I am always trying to look at the what ifs when i build my armies, and a mounted unit not getting a charge off or failing a charge and then being counted charged or not breaking a unit after its initial charge (which in most cases happens due to steadfast) are all really big what ifs. Now I will agree that with that STR5 every round come some hefty drawbacks, ASF -1 Armor, but I am a fan of constantly hitting hard and not just 1 round of goo Str followed by a grindfest which usually ends up with the knight unit eventually losing to many models to pokes here and there;). This is a perfect example of how different playgroups view different things :D.

Flagellants - So first you guys made me recheck a few things on these because I thought i misread them. Now unless my book is completely wrong these are WS3 not ws2 and have Flails, so +2 strength first round of combat. I am truly not seeing what is wrong with these at all. With the synergy in the empire army getting a 5+ ward on these are no problem if saves is what your concerned about, and as for the beating themselves the damage is minimal at best and the advantages far outway the few guys you will be losing. Unbreakable and Frenzy makes a TON of attacks that will never be shifted. Now granted if whatever hits them and makes it PAST a round of combat these do lose a lot of flare but by then counter charges and what not >.> Perhaps Im giving them far to much credit and just having fond memories of the old but I feel they still stand up pretty nicely.

I will get the rest of the book up as soon as possible and thank you for waiting/reading. Also if someone could tell me how to sticky these into the Know Thy Enemy section I would be happy to do so. If its a moderator thing I will hit up Hragged and ask if its something that would benefit the site.
When maw gives you lemons, APPEASE HIM!

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My bad on the WS part, but you can't get a 5+ ward on these guys without a War Altar if I recall, since characters can't join unbreakable units. The flail thing is more about the fact that they do really well in one round, then tarpit for the rest.

It might just be a points thing I suppose. Trouble is, when you've got an unbreakable unit you kind of don't want them to die so easily - but then it might also just be people comparing them to Greatswords, who're kind of similar in certain respects, but more durable with their armour save.

On the Great Weapons thing, I don't feel they're a bad choice at all - but they do mean your knight unit now has a different role. Which do you prefer giving the inner circle upgrade to, the unit with lances or the unit with great weapons? That is, assuming you run both.


Also, I do think you ought to start including Special Characters in your write ups. Admittedly it's less relevant here than it was with Tomb Kings, but they do have unique aspects and roles that can make a big difference.
Ogres - because who honestly likes 2 wound heroes?

On the Great Weapons thing, I don't feel they're a bad choice at all - but they do mean your knight unit now has a different role. Which do you prefer giving the inner circle upgrade to, the unit with lances or the unit with great weapons? That is, assuming you run both.


Also, I do think you ought to start including Special Characters in your write ups. Admittedly it's less relevant here than it was with Tomb Kings, but they do have unique aspects and roles that can make a big difference.

My normal role for knights is a sort of missile. I push them into something I feel they will put the most significant dent into. Usually looking for a nice flank :D As for the upgrade, Most likely lances. Great weapons for the most part wont need the extra strength, and if I am spending ANOTHER 3 points a model, I would be happier with that +1 to armor.

As for not writing about special characters, other than the ogres I don't have much if any experience with them. I don't feel I could give very good advice on them as they are sort of a taboo in our gaming area in that its ok to play them but KINDA frowned upon. We have a lot of players from older editions when special characters were complete powerhouses. But I am happy to give my opinions on them so I will add them to the past reviews and future ones if you like.
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14/5/0

Latest win/s - Warriors of Chaos x 2
Latest loss/s- Dark elves, Lizardmen
Generally a good review!
There are a few bits and bobs I would have to mention though:

Firstly Grand Masters actually have a better statline than generals, they get WS6 and 4 attacks which is more than a general gets.

Secondly I have to disagree about the Celestial hurricanium being a 5/10, there's not way the main use of it has anything to do with its bound spell - just think how useful a +1 hit bubble bonus is, its such a force multiplier for ANY massed troops, especially when you throw hatred in there from a warrior priest, let alone re rolls to wound from a warrior priest.

It can also give important to hit bonuses to units that can't be easily joined by a priest, such as demigryphs.

Oh yeah and a free power dice per phase? Sweet! All that wrapped in a S5 T5 W5 chariot for cheap (120 points!)

Finally I have to say that I agree with you that flagellants are good (if a bit pricey pointswise). I love throwing a unit of 20 of them into a watchtower with a Celestial Hurricanium nearby and then watching the carnage. You'll want to watch out for faster foes who hit harder, however (See: warriors of chaos)
Well, it's up to you if you feel like you can give special characters a good assessment - I've definitely heard of circles that consider them rather OP - some as recent as the old Teclis were downright wrong (seriously, auto-casting? Wut?!)

Still, they're allowed in tournaments, so I think that they have to be considered as units in their own right, that's the thing. Khalida, Kholek, Kroak and several others all operate very differently to their typical counterparts, so they kind of have to be looked at differently.
Ogres - because who honestly likes 2 wound heroes?

Firstly Grand Masters actually have a better statline than generals, they get WS6 and 4 attacks which is more than a general gets.

Secondly I have to disagree about the Celestial hurricanium being a 5/10, there's not way the main use of it has anything to do with its bound spell - just think how useful a +1 hit bubble bonus is, its such a force multiplier for ANY massed troops, especially when you throw hatred in there from a warrior priest, let alone re rolls to wound from a warrior priest.

It can also give important to hit bonuses to units that can't be easily joined by a priest, such as demigryphs.

Oh yeah and a free power dice per phase? Sweet! All that wrapped in a S5 T5 W5 chariot for cheap (120 points!)

Thanks for pointing those out for me :D. Must have been tired when I was reviewing those parts I honestly thought Hurricanum was far more expensive than it was. And I missed the added statline on the Grand master. I have gone back and fixed those up to help. Thanks again, completely missed those :D
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W/L/D Tourney List
14/5/0

Latest win/s - Warriors of Chaos x 2
Latest loss/s- Dark elves, Lizardmen
played against one the other day, was pretty scary but nothing ogres couldn't handle with our unit combinations imo. Like all things, just depends on what you bring and those darn dice.

YOUTUBE: http://www.youtube.com/user/Connman613
I kind of want to run an Empire army with as many Luminarks of Hysh I can fit in (3, I think; 2 Rare and 1 Lord mount, yes?) and then max out on Demigryph knights, solely because I love the models for each. Or a lord on Gryphon mount, alternatively.

I just have no idea what to do for Core options that would work. Since I'm designing top down ("hey these things look cool, I want them") instead of bottom up ("which of these units are actually effective?") and my list is likely to be awful, it's the Core section that I'll have to do the most work on, I guess. Thoughts?
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There's really two proper choices for Empire Core: Knights and Halberdiers. You can try Swordsmen and Spearmen, but they're a bit inferior to the Halberdiers, since the S4 makes that much more of a difference. Plus, the Luminark's ward save wouldn't contribute to the parry save so Swordsmen would be wasted here anyhoo.

Knights are pretty good, and the 1+ save makes them hard to take down. Plus, you won't be trying to fit a War Altar in to support them since they'd be too fast for it (whereas mounted Warrior Priests are more durable than their foot counterparts, who tend to die trying to buff the infantry units). Downside is keeping the Luminarks up with them to provide the ward.

You'd have better luck on the Empire forums, really, as they can give you better advice - Demigryph Knights are never a bad thing so you've got a punchy chunk of Monstrous Cav to pull your list.

I will say though to avoid the Luminark as a Lord Mount. The Light Wizard on the back just becomes war machine target #1 and there's literally no benefit to him being there.
Ogres - because who honestly likes 2 wound heroes?
Played another game vs empire. This time he had lots of cannons and gunline style. I just rushed across the board and prayed to the dice gods. Once I got into combat it was relatively easy. I used lots of smaller units to negate the effects of the cannons. As well a stonehorn to soak up damage and look scary.

YOUTUBE: http://www.youtube.com/user/Connman613
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