Items & Tactics Vs DE: Need some advice

I've got a big game coming up next Saturday that I'm not feeling too confident about.  I started a thread on the army list board that didn't generate much interest (http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=27850.0), so I'll try my luck here.

At 3500 points I'm facing Dark Elves, and likely most of the following:

Combat lord on Dragon
Lvl 4 Life sorc.

Lvl 2 Dark sorc.
Bsb on Cold One

Repeater xbows
Dark Riders

Executioner hoard (supported by both mages)
Cold One riders (Bsb here)
Hydra
Bolt thrower/s

The massed executioners are my biggest concern.  They're T5-7 with darn Life magic, have regen, and keep getting back up when they die.  With S7 from PoD, they're even wounding my characters on 2's.

If I play it right, I can shut the magic down for a turn with a well played HH, but what can I hit them with when they're weakened to cripple the unit and make it stick?  His dark riders are great for clearing out my chaff, so I don't know I can lead them around for too long.

For characters, I have a Tyrant, a Lvl 4 Maw, a lvl 2 Firebelly, and my Bsb.  What kind of kit would you be looking for, beyond HH/scroll on the casters?

I usually don't sweat losing games too much, but for this one I'm honor bound to pull out all the stops.  Thanks in advance, guys.

As far as I can tell, first order of business is to kill off his unit-less characters. Sure dragons are scary but they can't reliably tank 2 cannonballs to the face. I would say dedicate your first couple of turns to shooting his flying characters to hell with any ironblasters/leadbelchers you might have whilst redirecting his executioners with sabres - You shouldnt have an issue using ironguts to beat down his cold ones in combat (since ironguts laugh at 2+ saves) and then you can either avoid his executioners for the rest of the game, or bundle them in combvat with everything you have.

Since I dont know what you're taking that was my vest suggestion - also if you're taking LotGM on a slaughtermaster bare in mind that regenerating ogres will have a far stronger chance at slapping his executioners around.

Additionally if you can pull this off it can really work well to thin out scary units - if you run your firebelly out of their unit and use the template shooting phase version of the breath weapon on his horde - that can really do some damage - especially against squishy elves with poor armour saves! (fulminating flame cage from lore of fire is fantastic for this too (if you roll it that is))

I am no expert on OK but I have just bought a new OK army and am beginning to learn it.  I am, however, an expert with DE as I have owned them for 3 years.  So, here is my suggestion.

1) They are T3.  Don't forget that.  Shoot and magic them.
2) OK have a charge advantage over most of them.  Those impact hit really hurt all elves.
3) They are 20mm bases, so large templates really hurt.
4) Executioners are really nasty, but also very fragile.  They do not benefit from ASF due to their great weapons.
5) If he runs a Cauldron of Blood, target the Death hag first.  They have no armor and are T3.
6) For all intents and purposes; there are no more assassins of doom.  They are underwhelming choices now.
7) Warhydra is not at bad as it used to be.  No more regen saves.  But you have to kill it in one shot or it grow wounds back.
There is no more of the pendant unkillable lord anymore.  So don't worry about being tarpitted.

Hey, thanks for the replies!

My list so far looks like:

Tyrant: GW, HA, 4+ ward, Mawseeker, OTS (Alternate: SoS, HA, IF, 4+ ward, OTS, Giantbreaker)
Slaughtermaster: Maw lvl 4, GW, Hellheart, Crown

Bruiser: BSB, GW, 4+ ward armor
Firebelly: lvl2, GW, Scroll

Ironguts x12: FC, +1 leadership banner (or +1 movement; can't decide)
Bulls x6: IF, FC
Bulls x3: IF
Bulls x3: IF

Mournfang x4: HA, IF, Banner, Bellower, DHB
Leadbelcher x6: Bellower
Leadbelcher x6: Bellower
Cat
Cat
Gorger

Ironblaster
Stonehorn: Harpoon

That's all my painted models.

The Tyrant, SM, and Bsb will probably go with the guts, while the Firebelly tags along with the larger Bull group.  As suggested, this way he can charge out at an opportune moment, fire off his breath template, and get back to blasting at chaff with his spells.

From what I've seen, this opponent is really good at harassing cannons/Ironblasters with his dark rider units, and hides the dragon until they are tied up in combat.  My leadbelchers can see off the riders, but then they're not shooting at the executioners.

Gear for the characters is up in the air, but I'm thinking the HH will be better served on the slaughtermaster.  If the mages are in the hoard unit, it'll be easier to get both when I set it off.

I'd think about shifting the Leadbelchers into one unit of 8 and another of 4. Throw the Firebelly in the unit of 8 and try to get the Flaming Sword of Rhuin. It'll make that unit of Leadies wound on a 2, brutal. That or the Fulminating Flame Cage, so you can sit there and just keep peppering that unit with Leadies until they dispel it to move. Then I would keep that unit of Leadies right near your main unit of Ironguts and pepper the Executioners. Be sure to deploy like you want to do a head on head Executioner vs. Ironguts matchup, then drop the Leadies nearby and just shoot the holy crap out of them on the way in. To be honest, your cannon should be able to beat the Dark Rider unit especially with a cat nearby to help with the chaff. Use the smaller unit of Leadbelchers to protect the cannon if you think it will get swarmed by Dark Riders/Warlocks/whatever they send up. Hell even put a small unit of Bulls near your flanks so you can protect the sides. I had a unit of 5 Leadbelchers spend literally all game being shot at by two units of x5 Dark Riders and they lost one guy by the end of it whereas he lost two full units of Doomfire Warlocks and half a unit of Riders. Even trade in my book.

You have a solid list and I think despite being chewed up by the Executioners, you have a good shot here at taking a win. If they have both Sorcs in that Executioner unit, Hellheart is going to be fantastic. Especially if you have two rounds of shooting on them with the Firebelly in that Leadies unit (mentioned above). 8 d6 shots are insanely good against T3 models with 5+ saves. And he can't really stay away from that unit since its a 24" range and keeping that block of Executioners out of combat is a totally wasted unit to bus his characters around.

One thing to think about too is a Feedback Scroll instead of the Dispel. I see lots of DE casters throw 5-6 dice at spells and having something to make them take a wound on a +5 for every dice rolled is really nice. Especially if you drop Hellheart within a round or two of that Feedback Scroll.

I'd go with the Leadership banner personally for the Irongut unit. You don't want/need the +1 movement because of the basic tactics listed above. I would have more than likely won my last tournament had I not rushed in to charge Executioners thinking my unit of Ironguts would have fared better. However, he also double stacked Frenzy with the Hag which was not supposed to happen causing more attacks on my unit then allowed... so there was that.

Good luck and let us know how you do.

One thing I notice cropping up a lot is the assumption that these Dark Elves will be T3, Life Level 4 with most likely have Throne of Vines and Flesh to Stone. This puts DE's on T5 if not 7! The Executioners are obviously the primary killer in that army and so will more than likely be the target of this so they are going to be a bugger to shift. You will want to stop this ASAP.

I'd really suggest dropping the Stonehorn for another Ironblaster. Spank that Dragon ASAP to dismount they wizard they hammer her with Leaddies and they lose a lot of their defensive magic. If memory serves don't they have some douche bag pendant that gives a 3++ to ranged attacks now? If so mass shooting will help.

At that point level, as a DE player, I would have alot of tricks up my sleve.  One of them would be a lord/master with the cloak of twilight, which gives the bearer a 3+ ward against shooting and magic, it give killing blow and d3 wounds.  If you have an open list, find out who is bearing that and keep an eye out for him.

Shades are easy VP for you.  They are scouts and cost 8 skaven slaves run naked.  They have no armor but can shoot you up baddly.

The cauldron of blood (CoB) will have a very squish Death Hag on the top.  If in combat with that thing, try to kill it.  Kill the Death hag first and pound away at the cauldron.  The CoB gives insane buffs to units around it.  All models within 6" re-roll wounds which causes DE to play close together.  So if you have access to template weapons/magic then use them.

Warlocks are new and very versatile.  They have a 4+ ward, and cast magic like a lv 2 wizard(one hex and one magic missle spell).  So, he may run a bus of warlocks with characters in them.  Watch out for it.

Thanks for the advice, everyone.  I'm starting to feel a battle plan coming together!

In the last game this opponent had against a different Ogre player, those executioners were T5 the entire game due to Life spells.  The Ogre general wisely shut down Throne of Vine every turn, but it wasn't enough.  The Dark Magic caster also used Power of Dark to get their strength up to 7 when the Mournfangs/ Stonehorn/ Thundertusk attacked, with predictable and final results.

I usually don't use the Hellheart, but this seems like a pretty clear case of necessity.

I'm liking the idea of splitting up the Leadbelchers into uneven groups, one to thin the Exe. hoard and the other to plink at chaff units.  He won't be able to afford hanging back with that much firepower leveled at them, and I can try to draw him into my kind of fight, with my gutstar as the bait.

Alas, I don't have another Ironblaster, both for fluffy reasons, and the fact that I hated painting the one I have.  This list literally uses every model I have that's painted and based (stonehorn is just too cool)...  Inevitably, this means that the lone cannon will explode on turn one, leaving the dragon free to rampage.  I really want to engage it with my Tyrant if it's still alive when the lines collide.

Fortunately, I don't think he's purchased any of the new stuff, ala massed Witch Elves/Cauldron (my information network has let me down on past occasions, however).  He uses some crossbowmen and balistas to lock down one area of the board and thwart things that try to flank the executioners, but I could possibly get through to them with the Stonehorn or something.  Meanwhile the Dark Riders harass everything and hunt down chaff, attacking or blocking the line of sight of cannons if they can.  Good thing ours can move!

There is also typically a character in the Cold One bus wielding a sword that auto-wounds and can nerf your character's attacks.  I think the guts can handle them, but I can't assume I'll get only the combats I want.

They do have a 3+ ward cloak that also gives KB/Multiple Wound D3 in the first round of combat.  I expect the Lord to have it.

It's been a while since I've gotten this excited about a game.  Definitely gonna post a report on this one.

It's done, folks!  The biggest and most climactic showdown between the Whale Eater tribe and their hated Druchii nemesis has come to a close.  Battle Report will be up before too long; not only was the game unbelievably brutal, but also strangely cinematic.  Parts of it I couldn't have scripted better if it was a movie.

Thanks for all the advice, everybody, especially Eire for the leadbelcher/ gutstar trap (though it didn't go quite according to plan), and Daffy F for advocating the Firebelly breath template rush (though that didn't go off without a hitch, either).

Edit:  I would also like to point out the single best thing that came out of this unilaterally awesome game.  At one point, a repeater crossbow unit champion, evidently called a "guardmaster" or something equivalent, was shooting at one of my  nearby units.  My opponent declared that "his only penalty is multiple shots", and in the background, one of the spectators was heard to mutter, in a suitably gravelly, dramatic voice, "His only crime...  Was Multi-Shot!"

I promptly decried that this would be a great tag line for a movie poster, and the ideas started coming rapid fire from all sides.  Thus, the promotional material for our upcoming trilogy of Dark Elf action movies is as follows:

Guardmaster:   Poster depicts a repeater crossbow wielding Druchii warrior pointing grimly off frame, astride a mound of slain dwarfs with black quarrels sprouting from their heads and chests, with a semi-nude elven sorceress in partial bondage clinging longingly to his leg.  Tag line:  His Only Crime... Was Multi-Shot!

Guardmaster II- Rise of the Naggorythian:  The titular hero stands in partial darkness, head down, eyes up, with a crossbow in either hand, a nude but tastefully shadowed witch elf clinging to either leg, and a massive, gilded codpiece thrust manfully forward.  Above, two silver, elvish blades form the numeral II.  Tag line:  Twice the action.  Twice the intrigue.  FOUR TIMES THE SHOTS.

Guardmaster III- The Iron Crown:   Our protagonist is atop a veritable mountain of slain foes from every recognizable Warhammer race, with grossly oversize ballista bolts jutting sporadically from their bodies.  A living carpet of buxom, scantily clad females paws frantically at his shins and ankles, as he stares with terrifying intensity at some point in the distance, the trace of an arrogant smirk on his mouth.  A full size reaper bolt thrower, minus the carriage, is slung almost casually across his shoulders, and his codpiece has grown alarmingly in size.  Atop his head is a twisted, black iron crown, which to GW fans may resemble none other than Malekith's Circlet of Iron.  Tag line:  This Summer...  Bring Enough Crossbow!