Something different: Ogres or Dark Elves

Hey guys,

I'm a long time WHFB enthusiast and am coming back to the game since a year and a half recess from it.  Before taking a break from it, I had experiences playing WOC and as HE.  Since I had to relocate for work, I had to give up the play element of the hobby and sold my armies to friends.

Coming back to it and with a new group of people,  I have the ability to play once again. I found my old Dark Elf stuff in storage so I've considered running them.  But I'm torn on running Ogres as we have maybe one other person who plays them around here.

I'd like to get a fully painted army ready to go again as I've always been more of a painter than a player, but this time around I'd like to really capture both elements of the hobby.

So...Ogres or Dark Elves?  I know it'sa loaded question, but what are your experiences?  I'd like to have a competitive but fun army. I'm just nervous about such a low model count to play with but am pumped at the idea of finishing a wonderful army!

Thanks!

Jake

Well, if you're more of a hobby person, I'd throw my vote in for Ogres. Dark Elves are Dark Elves. You can paint them all sortsa colors, but in the end, they're still Dark Elves of Naggaroth.

Ogres, on the other hand, can be anything you want them to be. Pirates, Norsemen, Empire Ogres, Chaos worshipers, we have a member here who made his army into Rhinos (http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=23480.0)...sky's the limit really with these guys!

On the competitive note, I am not the one to ask unfortunately. There are threads upon threads of talk about Dark Elves, because they just got released, so having a look around the forum will get you a good idea of what they are like. (also, druchii.net may help as well, the DE forum) And, as you can probably tell, there are even more threads on the competitive-ness of Ogres here; Lists (http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?board=10.0), tactics (http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=26514.0), and how to use Ogres vs specific armies (http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?board=11.0)

Search around, do some research, you'll be sure to find a lot of useful info!


Edit: I should proofread sometimes....

It really depends on your playstyle and what you like. Both races have their strengths and weaknesses.

My regular opponent is Dark Elves, and their book ALWAYS tends to be very strong with borderline or (in the case of last edition) blatantly overpowered things. Last edition it was the Reverse Ward Save Pendant and this edition, in my opinion, it's Witch Elves being Core and the absurdly low cost of Doomfire Warlocks. With Dark Elves you have a lot of versatility to make a strong army using different elements, the only drawback being their low Toughness. They have high Initiative, stupid amounts of re-rolls (usually with Poison), access to all Lores of Magic, and their Dark Magic doesn't have a single bad spell in it. Even the Signature Spell, when combined with the Lore Attribute, can easily decimate a small to medium-sized unit in one well-rolled shot. (this Signature Spell by the way, is the one Doomfire Warlocks have access to.) They also have decent Monsters.
In summary, Dark Elves have more than enough strengths to compensate for their weaknesses and a lot of versatility and re-rolls with Poison, but a vulnerability to any form of template. I foresee them becoming a huge presence in tournaments from this point on.

Ogres are also a very strong book. Obviously everyone on this site will lean towards them, as this is an Ogre site. We have high Toughness, but low Initiative, troops that can lay a serious beatdown in combat. Impact Hits are a norm for us which are fantastic, as they hit before anything else. We have arguably the best cavalry and cannon in the game, some awesome shooting units with Leadbelchers, and cheap chaff with Sabretusks. The only thing I DON'T like about this book is the Butcher tax. Lore of the Great Maw is a decent Lore but not outstanding, and we are forced to take it. I'd love to be able to regularly play with more Lores than just Fire and the Maw. Though I don't play at values where I can afford dual casters.
In summary, Ogres play more like brutes, scary as hell and much more durable than puny Elves, but also VERY vulnerable to HAHA SAVE OR DIE spells like Purple Sun.

Pick your poison, ser.

On the modelling side of things I definitely agree with Mr Cthulhu, ogres are in my opinion the easiest minis to convert and make your own, mainly because they provide such a big canvas to work with.  Also because you'll have a much smaller model count it lets you take much longer on each one, turning them into an individual.

Dedled

Well I've made up my mind: Ogres.

Let's knock some S**T around, shall we?

I found two deals that I'm intrigued by... which would you choose as a good base starter....

$200
1 Tyrant
1 Slaughtermaster/butcher
1 Firebelly
8 Leadbelchers
12 Ogres
12 Ironguts


or....

$240 for:
-1 Tyrant
-1 Slaughtermaster/Butcher
-24 Gnoblars
-10 Ogres
-4 Ironguts
-4 Leadbelchers
-3 Mournfang cavalry
-5 Golgfangs Mercenary Ogres
-1 Ironblaster -1 Thundertusk
-1 Stonehorn
-bag of bits

Thoughts?  I'm rather pumped!!

Jake

I'd say the first lot.

The great thing about ogres is you can make a fairly good list with just the basics! Grab yourself a bunch of ogres and ironguts (and something else to spice em up - in this case it'll be leadbelchers) some leadership (tyrant) and some magic casters (butcher/firebelly) and you've got yourself a functioning army. Then when you discover what nuances of the ogre playstyle you prefer you can add some things that compliment that playstyle.

One thing I can recommend off the bat is acquiring 3 sabretusks to play as chaffe, they are worth their weight in gold 90% of the time.

Wonderful.  I'll pick some sabretusks up as well.  I'm thinking of doing a Roman/Greek demi-god theme.  Could be fun, huh?  Do you know where I could get some alternate heads or will I be better off sculpting my own?

Jake

I would go with the first aswell. As Daffy F said, add some Sabretusks. Space Wolves Fenrisian Wolf Pack work excellent for that matter, I use them as I don't like the Sabretusk model.

You should go with some less Leadies, Ogres and Ironguts and convert a BSB (important!) and maybe some Maneaters.

Glad to see you picked the right army! *Waves club menacingly* Hehe I joke of course!

I'm also in agreement that the first option would be best. 12 Ogres and 12 Ironguts is enough to get you WELL on your way, also any spare bodies can be converted into a myriad of things including Maneaters (Totally the most fun unit in the book!) Bruisers/Tyrants, a BSB, Butchers/Slaughtermasters, Hunters... it goes on.

The awesome thing about Ogre's is literally every kit gives you spare parts and 95% of it is interchangeable so spare parts from a Stonehorn kit can be used to convert yourself a nice plastic hunter who also doubles up as a Maneater. Example - I used parts to do just this but I also have a Thundertusk kit so I used a spare Harpoon Launcher to convert myself a Dwarvern Quarreler Maneater alongside a few Dwarf shields and a nicely plated head from the Ironblaster kit. The conversion posibilities will send you mad but it sure is fun!

Mournfang Cavarly and a Ironblaster added to Option 1 would give you an incredible army to run with and the spare great weapons from the Mournfang make for some rather tasty Irongut conversions. Sabretusks are a must, they are just plain fantastic for what they can do especially at their cost. You will also find a Battle Standard Bearer (BSB) pretty much an auto-include. Ogre's suffer with fairly poor Ld values so having those re-rolls will save your bacon more often than not.

I love the idea of a Greek/Roman themed demigod army. You must get a Gnoblog going for them, I'd love to see how they turn out 

Hey guys!

Thanks for the feedback guys!  I am PUMPED to get these guys going.  I went with option 1 and am already starting to craft a list.

I'm in a local escalation league starting next month that starts at 500 points and steps up at 250 points every two weeks or so.  We're supposed to paint while we accelerate (which with my airbrush, shouldn't be that hard, haha).  They key restriction of the League is that you cannot have any magic users until the point levels reaches 1,000pts.  Most of the players are running Dark Elves (surprise surprise) High Elves (who knew?) and some assorted others.  I do have my Dark Elf army from a few years back, but come on, I want some character to my boys!  I'm just trying to think of how a 500 point build would go.

I went with option 1 so I'll have plenty of my core requirements no matter what I take.  I also have some Fenris wolves that I will actually use as Sabretusks to go with my Roman theme.

I do play with a buddy of mine who always runs High Elves.  Chances are that we'll be facing each other quite a bit for practice games and even in the league.  He's going to soil himself when he sees me plunk these guys on the table.  My only concern is that, whether he means to or not, he sometimes tailors his list...how do we get around that?  I mean I know we're always outnumbered, but how do you contest some cheese in that way?

Thanks a ton guys!  I love this community already.  You guys seem so upbeat and friendly.

Jake

My only concern is that, whether he means to or not, he sometimes tailors his list...how do we get around that?

My defacto way of fighting people who tailor their lists, is to always bring two or three lists with me; they'll usually be quite different, so one will have a large unit of Ironguts, one that I'm working on will have 100+ gnoblars () and Leadbelchers, and the other will have a medium to large unit of Ogres and some Maneaters.

I'm not sure if you're looking at this as a way round him tailoring in the escalation league or not, so I don;t know how useful that advice will be, but it's certainly something to think about for 'friendly' games. Another thing to do is look at how he might tailor his list and pre-empt him on certain things- one of my regular High Elf opponents has started regularly taking the Banner of Eternal Flame on his White Lion block, so that he can chew through my Trollguts -_- What he doesn't know is that I'll be taking the Dragon Bane Gem on my Slaughtermaster, Dragon Helm on my BSB, and a Firebelly in the front rank of the (now only 3 wide) unit, so that they'll be well protected against Flaming attacks

If you know your opponent has a fondness for Swordmasters, take a good unit of Leadbelchers to thin them out before they get into combat with you- oh and one thing to remember about Ogre shooty units is that they're Ogres, so if your opponent sends chaff, or light units at them, like they would other missile troops, you can usually beat them in close combat- it makes my High Elf player sigh in frustration whenever he tries to get use out of his Shadow Warriors in our round-robin tournament, because against me they are relegated to just sitting back and (hopefully) doing 0-1 wound in a turn if he's lucky; he knows they stand no chance in combat, so doesn't even try to send them against my Leadies or Ironblaster anymore  :p

It can turn the game into a bit of an arms race, with everyone trying to one-up each other in terms of item load outs, but I find that the theoretical side of that kind of thing is pretty entertaining in it's own way, so I like doing it :>p

I agree that the Greek/ Roman style will look mightily impressive! I'd say that you;re more likely to get good heads by sculpting your own, but it obviously depends on your skills- I have seen some amazing Samurai style Ogres on ebay before, so it's definitely something that can be achieved; the only problem I foresee if getting enough shields which are large enough, assuming you want to model them with Hoplite shields or Legionairre type tower shields- Ogres aren't usually associated with defence (even our Ironfists are shields which are also weapons in the fluff ) so not many models come with shields the right size :p