Fighting the Suneater

One of my friends has just purchased a shaggoth model he intends to convert into Kholek Suneater. Dragon ogres I have faced before, shaggoths I have faced before. Neither scare me, I've never felt we are helpless against them.
Kholek is a shocking (pun intended) piece of work. M8 S8 T6 7A and a whopping 8 wounds with a combined 2+ save. My first thought is that well my shooting can drop him. But even poison maneaters are wounding on 6's and then there's still a 4+ save to protect him after modifiers. Ironblasters can also do wonders but I hate the cheese of running two and 1 can't reliably kill him in two rounds of shooting. With M8 he'll be in combat ASAP and with his D6 S6 shooting attack chaffing him up with gnoblars and kitties is near pointless.

Any other ideas other than shoot? Maybe bullgorger my guts I suppose. He isn't scary, just a special snowflake I've never encountered.

What's the I? If low, we may have found a perfect candidate for the P-Sun. Haha 

Throw Ironguts with trollguts at it, they should whittle it down soon enough (no thunderstomp for him, if he's a monster...).

What's the I? If low, we may have found a perfect candidate for the P-Sun. Haha 

Kholek is initiative 1. 

But in all seriousness... ironblaster him. If your buddy complains ust point out to him that Kholek is a big fat shooting magnet. But if you're REALLY intent on not bringing 2 ironblasters... throw a huge unit of gnoblars in front of him.
Sure, he'll kill a ton of them but it'll take him a while to do it, and he isn't gonna pay back his points like that. Who knows, you might even get a wound...

Try a giant? I know, I know - but seriously look at his big things chart and marvel at how he beats up low initiative big things.

Try a giant? I know, I know - but seriously look at his big things chart and marvel at how he beats up low initiative big things.

Quite a good idea. The giant is I3, and any result on the big things chart will either likely kill or prevent kholek from attacking. if memory serves it's 1=yell and bawl (auto-win combat by 2) 2-3='eadbutt (inflict d3 wounds no saves target cannot fight if it hadn't already 4-6=thump with club (pass I test or 2d6 wounds no saves. yummy.

Your main problem could be keeping him from smacking up your character with his uber mace. Ironblasting him is the main factor, but I think with Trollguts you'll force him to lose combat more often than not, since without his thunderstomp he's a bit lost. Try to also prevent him from getting any support units into combat with you.

Try a giant? I know, I know - but seriously look at his big things chart and marvel at how he beats up low initiative big things.

Quite a good idea. The giant is I3, and any result on the big things chart will either likely kill or prevent kholek from attacking. if memory serves it's 1=yell and bawl (auto-win combat by 2) 2-3='eadbutt (inflict d3 wounds no saves target cannot fight if it hadn't already 4-6=thump with club (pass I test or 2d6 wounds no saves. yummy.

better than that. Thump with Club is an automatic 2D6 wounds with no armor.

Giants totally **** over any single big model with a lower initiative than themselves.


Me- "ok, my Giant charges your Shaggoth"

Him- "fine, I get to swing fir... FRAK! I gave him a Great Weapon!"

Me- "Ok your Shaggoth takes 2D6 wounds... Its dead!"

Yes I agree, the giant may actually be the best course of action here. I didn't even consider it because I have no model for it. In my opinion its quite the risk to make your general a big monster like Kholek, he costs the same as Greasus but even the overtyrant could potentially take him in a fight. S10 D3 wounds, 4++ ward to mitigate the simultaneous attacks coming back. Not that I think that's a good option.
We'll see how it pans out, thanks

Grey templar aren't shaggoths I4 though? It's not that reliable that they're gonna fail the I test for thump with club.

Now Kholeks I1, thats different. (And I must admit I quite like the image of Kholek getting beaten up by some regular Giant)

I just did a little research on him, d3 wounds with that club, is that correct? If so, don't throw Ironguts at him!   

I concur with the Giant, plus, they're stinking hysterical! Love running me a giant. I bought one off a friend of mine along with his Orcs. The Orcs call him 'Da Big Boi, but the more sophisticated Goblins call him Tearrants, 'Da Big Boi...

And he definitely tears everything apart...then dies, he always manages to die while killing things...

he always manages to die while killing things...

That's strange- mine always kills things when it dies

Seriously, I had it get charged by a unit of Ushabti- one got thumped with the club, then the rest killed the wounded Giant; obviously having a mean-streak that death couldn't deter, he decided to fall on the unit and kill the rest of them in one go! In a previous game at the same tournament a similar thing occurred, when he was killed by a Skink Cohort in CC (damned poison close combat attacks!) and the same thing happened- he killed 75% of the unit when he fell over, including the Kroxigors

I've been in love with Giants since 6th Ed. when I played Orcs and Gobbos; they just always seem to do me proud :')

Like most things unkillable, the best way to kill them is to make them run or shoot him down with an ironblaster.

Is he ItP and low leadership? then maybe brain-gobbler. Otherwise, you will need to charge his flank/rear with a deep unit of ogres with trollguts and win the CR battle. This is another place where kitties can help since you can multi-charge and have the kitties generate the flanking CR.

But honestly, there seems to be no better target for the ironblaster than this guy...

Yes I agree, the giant may actually be the best course of action here. I didn't even consider it because I have no model for it. In my opinion its quite the risk to make your general a big monster like Kholek, he costs the same as Greasus but even the overtyrant could potentially take him in a fight. S10 D3 wounds, 4++ ward to mitigate the simultaneous attacks coming back. Not that I think that's a good option.
We'll see how it pans out, thanks

What's sad is that if memory serves they cost the same, and kholek gets the following: +4 M, +2 WS, +3 S, +2 T, +1 W +4 A, and a shooting attack that can clear out chaff quite well. Unsurprisingly, Greasus is a much worse value.

Is he ItP and low leadership? then maybe brain-gobbler.

I do believe he is ItP (and can frenzy himself) so braingobbler is out the window (He has Ld 9 or 10, too)

I once had a Giant 'eadbutt an Emperor Dragon's last 3 wounds off. They really can do wonderful things.

Kholek can do his fancy thunderbolt even if in combat, if I recall, so assume your Sabretusks won't be staying around.

Yes I agree, the giant may actually be the best course of action here. I didn't even consider it because I have no model for it. In my opinion its quite the risk to make your general a big monster like Kholek, he costs the same as Greasus but even the overtyrant could potentially take him in a fight. S10 D3 wounds, 4++ ward to mitigate the simultaneous attacks coming back. Not that I think that's a good option.
We'll see how it pans out, thanks

What's sad is that if memory serves they cost the same, and kholek gets the following: +4 M, +2 WS, +3 S, +2 T, +1 W +4 A, and a shooting attack that can clear out chaff quite well. Unsurprisingly, Greasus is a much worse value.

Not really a fair assessment, IMHO.

Greasus (who is mediocre at best) does also get: 

*  Str 10, D3 wounds on his weapon attacks (so Kholek really doesn't get +3 STR... he is actually -2 STR compared to Greasus).
*  An impact hit (or D3 on a 10+ charge) from the Ogre Charge special rule.
*  a 4++ ward and the ability to take a Look Out, Sir!  from monstrous infantry units.
*  The ability to make his entire unit ItP.
*  The ability to make all allies within 18" auto-rally when fleeing, and give them all +1 combat res.
*  The ability to inflict stupidity on d3 enemy units within 18" each turn.

I think these special rules at least level the playing field between Greasus and Kholek...  which really just shows that Kholek is not really anything to worry about.

Kudos to your friend for deciding to run such a sub-optimal yet cool choice like Kholek + Dragon Ogres + Shaggoths.  He could have run a Nurgle DP (w/ Purple Sun) + 3 Chimera's + an unkillable BSB (3++ rerolling 1's) + all chariot core + skullcrushers.

Yeah, major kudos to him.

-Snark

Kudos to your friend for deciding to run such a sub-optimal yet cool choice like Kholek + Dragon Ogres + Shaggoths.  He could have run a Nurgle DP (w/ Purple Sun) + 3 Chimera's + an unkillable BSB (3++ rerolling 1's) + all chariot core + skullcrushers.

Yeah, major kudos to him.

He hates running "internet lists", I'll pass this compliment on  .

You can't fight that thing head on but you can always feed him GNOBLARS

Kudos to your friend for deciding to run such a sub-optimal yet cool choice like Kholek + Dragon Ogres + Shaggoths.  He could have run a Nurgle DP (w/ Purple Sun) + 3 Chimera's + an unkillable BSB (3++ rerolling 1's) + all chariot core + skullcrushers.

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