Mournfangs - command or no command?

Greetings!

I'm building 4 mournfangs and wondered if I should do the musician.
I already did the banner since the Dragonhide Banner/Gleaming Pennant are a pretty good options.

Are the musician and champion really useful?


Thanks a lot!

Musician and No champion is the most competitive build. This is because the way wounds are attributed to the models, Musician then Standard then Champ. Since you payed those points for a magic banner you want it to be the last left. Finally, the musician is always nice for swift reforms when you get away from where you should be with those big guys.

Hope that helps

I have two units of 3 that are without any command models.

The only thing I would conceive adding is a Standard Bearer with or without a magic banner. An extra attack and challenge potential from a Champion is nice, the +1 for rally from the Bellower also nice… But the general consensus is that they're not vital, in particular for Mournfangs.

In my situation thats 40 points all up, if I went entire command I'd be spending 60. Really depends on how tight you are on points at the end of the day. If you're looking for a definite yes or no, then it's no- A unit of 4 with a magic banner is expensive enough. That extra 20 points might be good to have free when you go reviewing your list in the future.

I run 4 with a musician. A Standard is wasted if they flee and thats a HUGE hit.

Except with a standard you get a lot of options for needy banners: +1 LD and Dragon comes to mind.

In short:
- musician, if you face a shooting oriented enemy and you place them on a flank: yes.
- champion, only if you're afraid of not being able to break steadfast with your huge amount of attacks

About the musician:
With 4 you should be able to face most enemies (in CC), so in that case no need of a musician.
BUT choosing a musician also depends where you put them. On the flank: out of reach of the general or BSB? I would take a musician. If you panic from shooting (Yes that happens) the musician is worth it for rallying.

About the champion:
With 4, I do hope (and expect) that 1 more attack shouldn't be necessary. On the other hand: everything that helps getting rid of steadfast is useful. For me: I usually don't have the points for it.
 
If you go with 3 MF, then I totally agree with Tanksie. If you loose combat and break, your SB is killed
immediately...and if you didn't have champion, it will probably be the last model in your unit, so you lost your entire unit. Noted on this point, with only 3 MF you must pick your close combat more carefully.

Except with a standard you get a lot of options for needy banners: +1 LD and Dragon comes to mind.

The Dragonhide is worth the risk, but no others imo.

Except with a standard you get a lot of options for needy banners: +1 LD and Dragon comes to mind.

The Dragonhide is worth the risk, but no others imo.

Gleaming pennant on a group of three has saved my bacon more times than I can count.

I tend to stay well away from the champ, the risk of him getting challenged by a lone character and thus effectively taking out the rest of the unit is too great - same goes for him being unable to lay about rank-n-file by random enemy champions. I do love the Dragonhide though, it can be pretty obscene for the price.

Thank you guys! Really appreciated!!

I'll make a musician even tough I won't use him all the time!

I tend to stay well away from the champ, the risk of him getting challenged by a lone character and thus effectively taking out the rest of the unit is too great

Why accept?

I tend to stay well away from the champ, the risk of him getting challenged by a lone character and thus effectively taking out the rest of the unit is too great

Why accept?

You have to...there's no hiding spot in a second rank.

I know that for characters, but is it the same for champs?

I was under the impression that they weren't forced to accept.

Unit champs don't have to accept challenges. They can never be sent back, so simply refusing with one is always an option.

Unit champs don't have to accept challenges. They can never be sent back, so simply refusing with one is always an option.

And they can still fight back? That would be strange. Have to look this up in the Big Book

Musician is absolutely mandatory. Swift reforms, +1 to rally and win ties as a bonus.

Standard is good. Particularly since it opens up the magic banner slot for gleaming pennant or dragonhide. The downside, for units three or less, is that if you flee, you lose a whole mournfang that might otherwise escape and conserve points. For units of four plus, not so much of a big deal. If you get down to 1 model and you flee, you are going to be rallying on snake eyes anyway.

Champions are not a great use of points for the reasons given above. You don't really ever want to challenge something out to protect the unit and it means you'll lose your standard first. Plus it's only 1 S4 attack, which isn't much for a mournfang unit.

Unit champs don't have to accept challenges. They can never be sent back, so simply refusing with one is always an option.

+1 to this. The BRB basically states that champions, albeit the best of their pack, aren't necessarily as invested in the glory of a challenge, so they can simply refuse a challenge and fight normally. So, if you run a Mournfang champ, you don't have to worry about challenge-locks. However, the bigger concern is losing the banner first via wounds application; yes, if you break, you lose the standard bearer, but, if you pick your combats correctly you shouldn't break from combat, and if you place your MFC carefully, you shouldn't have to worry too much about cannonfire/panic.

That being said, I run mus+std/dragonhide, in the tried-and-true-cliché fashion Hey, if it's not broken, why fix it?