Character Bus

Hey all iv been looking into the character bus idea with wound allocation , and I'm a tad confused how does it work so for example
The front rank are a ful command

O= ogre
C= character

    O-O-O
    C-C-C
    O-O-O
 
Ok is this how is works?
 , say this unit gets charged does the Charaters Step up pushing the command back.
Then a character challenges so the enemy's rank and file carnt touch all of your ogres minimizing attacks
Then the remaining models in base to base have to allocate towards the characters because there not touching your core. Is this the general idea?

It's the "Make Way" rule in the book. Once you've hit CC, your characters can actually push their way into the front of the unit, even in front of command group.

So, before combat, you have
C-character
O-Ogre
X- Champion (if you choose to use one)

O-O-X
C-C-C
O-O-O

Then, once you're officially in close combat, you can have

C-C-X
O-O-C
O-O-O

Or

C-C-C
O-O-X
O-O-O

And the fluff behind this is that basically command group keeps the unit together, but the characters are the real ones with power; if they wanna fight, they push others outta the way to fight!

Otherwise, yeah, your description is basically accurate.

Lessay you hit some 20pack of basic infantry, 18 basic troops, a champ, and a lord of some sort. Pick an army, whatever...

So, combat looks like this:
v = little troop
x = little champ
o = little hero
O = ogre
X = ogre champ
C = character

vvvvv
vvvvv
vvvvv
vvvxo
C-C-X
O-O-C
O-O-O

Your opponent declares a challenge, you accept with your champ vs. his character. basically, all the other troops have to choose whether to put attacks into character 1 or character 2. The hope is that you've basically decked out each character to the point where they're not going to get wounded much (if at all), and so you're causing CR-denial (no wounds, no CR). Then, your champ hopefully holds the character one round, and the rest of your ogres pile into the unit, causing wanton destruction. You kill at least 11 v's, they lose steadfast, break, and are plowed over by your dudes.

One additional comments to the above excellent explanation.
AS pointed out the bus will deny combat resolution to the opponent but also reduce the number of attacks by the opponent as no supporting attacks can be made where a character or champion is in challenge as the 40mm bases block alot of the opponent base to base contact.

The setup is very effective. You need to read and understand the rules of the 'make way move' and with experience you will see when to move up your characters and when to protect them from deadly combat.

I have good experience with the following bus (should fit in 2400pt):


Tyrant, glittering scale+fencers blades, +1S big name or greedy fist
SM lvl3-4, gw lore of beast (important protective spells (+3T and +1S/+1T)) - keep in second row as he has no (and need no) protection.
BSB, gw 4++
lvl1, gw, dispel, butcher lore of the maw - this guy can be sacrificed for a bad challenge setup!
Perhaps another bruiser with 4++ and gw.
Place them all in a normal ogre unit with FC and about 10 bodies.

Result is a T5 wall with tyrant and the two bruisers up front which wont get any wounds against most stuff and will chew up most. The lvl1 butcher and champion can be sent into bad challenges while the rest of the unit build up CR : )
..... watch out for sword of anti heroes! ; )

So can your ogres behind the champion that has accepted the challenge can they push forward during this?

Or you don't want that so you deny them the attacks since they Arnt able to attack them

I am not sure I understand your question correctly. But ogres behind the model in challenge would be able to make supporting attacks (if the ogre in front is in base contact with more models than just the model in the challenge). but the opponent may lose the supporting attacks as their models behind the challenger wont be in base contact with any attack-able ogre.

Did that clarify anything?

Once a model is in a challenge they are stuck in front row, but cannot be attacked by anybody than the challenger : )

Ah yes that makes sence thank you I just want to try and get basics and some questions answered so when my opponents say "What!" And rages , I know how to explain it to them.

Cool!

I have found it to be good fairplay to ask my opponent how to deal with obscure rule situations I want to exploit before the game start.

Luckily the bus-scenario is fairly standard rule-wise and powerful!

I'd like to add that I personally allow my opponents to make supporting attacks 'over' a model fighting a challenge into whatever is behind it. I think it's far more sporting and in most situations is only one guy on the edge or two if they are hordes can attack.

Especially if they are about to roll dice and you tell them that one guy can't attack even though all your guys can.

My opinion.

Cheers,


Ps character busses are great. In those setups however i would highly recommend a rune banner BSB.

Just be prepared for the hate you're gonna get for running this.  People don't generally like 1500+ point units.

Oh bu-hu ; )
Busses are one trick ponies which are extremely easy to deal with, if you know the right tools : )

Redirections, cannons and template/initiate spells come to mind here. having 1500+ pt in one unit is a huge risk that give you an instant 0-20 loss if it fails...

Specialized lists are a pain, sure. I dont like facing an empire army with only 1+ AS troops and tons of demigrifs, but given the right tools you can beat it ; )

Cannons are actually less of a threat against big Ogre units than people seem to think. A typical cannon that targets an Ogre unit correctly has a 5/6 chance of getting the shot off, a 5/6 chance of a bounce, a 5/6 chance of causing a wound, and a 2/3 chance of causing enough wounds (assuming a healthy unit here) to kill an ogre.

That is a roughly 38.5% chance of killing a single Ogre. If that fails, the cannonball stops. Not really the best odds in my book. Plus, if you are taking a 1500 point unit, you'd be crazy not to take the Ironcurse Icon, which brings the chances down to 32%.

You are less than twice as likely to kill an Ogre with a cannon than you are to misfire. And if you kill one Ogre, you have a 55% chance of killing the next (46% with the Icon).

Flak is a bit of a larger problem, but if you take ample Leadbelchers and Firebellies, the situation tends to handle itself.

The worst issue I have seen running that sort of list is people getting upset. But them again, people running Chosenstars (old book) or scream lists or similar don't really get to complain.

True - and on that note the chance(/risk?) of getting purple sun through an ogre unit is likewise not high. My point was that the ogre bus is not a true solid-instant-win-option (as the above mentioned woc-star) and there are obviously ways to by pass it. It is without a doubt difficult to handle for some setups but then again Ogres are rough (even the kinda generic all-comer list of 2 iron blasters, a lvl4, 4 mournfangs, sniper-eaters + hell heart)
I can see the problem of loosing to the ogre-bus like losing a classic rock-paper-scissor game where you just picked wrongly and lost.

Anyway, I am getting away from the excellent topic of how the ogre bus work and how to improve it : )

Want to improve it?  Put runemaw on the bsb, hellheart on a firebelly, scroll on your SM, movement banner or DHB on the guts standard...you really should have nothing to worry about.  Like GI said, belchers and belly to clear chafe...away you go.