!!Please HELP!! Trilogy of the Damned - No Comp, Swiss, & ETC - Sibling Rivalry

So my brother and I are going to have a Gaming Weekend, I recently got an Ogre Army. While doing some research on the VC forums I found the fallowing post.

So I need help ASAP.

My brother just purchased an Ogre Kingdoms army and he is coming over this weekend to try and smash face. He hasn't played very many times really so it shouldn't be much of a challenge. However, since he is my older brother I have to bring the utter filth and demolish his dreams of triumph!

The challenge is 3 different lists under the 3 major formats with the victory going to the general with the most cumulative points as per the BRB at the end of the 3 games. We are going to roll for scenario each round; rerolling any previously played scenario.

The idea of the "Trilogy of the Damned" comes from Magic: the Gathering and their Eternal/Modern/Standard tournament formats. If you aren't familiar with M:tG formatting here a brief summary and how it relates to WFB No Comp/Swiss/ETC:

Eternal/No Comp - You get to play with cards from every set in the history of magic. Very few restrictions on deck construction and games can be very swingy. This is similar to how uncomped WFB is viewed. No restrictions. No-holds-barred.

Modern/Swiss - Limits you to playing only cards with "new frame art". Sounds stupid and almost arbitrary but it used to be called "Extended" and followed a strict pattern of cycling through releases of newer cards. It's just a limitation on what cards you can play and isn't as "broken" as Eternal. Swiss is similar to this in that you don't really have any restrictions just have to get your list into a certain point bracket.

Standard/ETC - The most restrictions and changes frequently. In magic this means you can only play with the last 2 blocks of cards. In Warhammer this is literal restricions and limitations on what you can an cannot play with.



For Round 1 we are playing 2600 no comp special characters included. I tried to think of a list that I couldn't play for the next 2 rounds and came to the conclusion that the 2x Terrorgheist Black Knight bus list would probably be the filthiest list I could play.

ROUND 1 - 2600 NO COMP
Lord - 530
Vampire Lord (Lore of Vampires)- Barded Nightmare, Heavy Armour, Quickblood, Red Fury, lvl 4, Charmed Shield, Sword of Anti-Heroes, Talisman of Preservation, The Other Trickster's Shard

Heroes - 355
Necromancer (Lore of Vampires)- Dispel Scroll
Vampire (Lore of Death)- Barded Nightmare, Heavy Armour, Lance, Red Fury, Shield, Lvl 2, Nightshroud, Ironcurse Icon

Core - 660
40x Ghouls - Ghast
20x Zombies - Standard
20x Zombies - Standard
5x Dire Wolves
5x Dire Wolves
5x Dire Wolves

Special - 518
13x Black Knights - FC, Lances, Barding, Banner of Swiftness
Spirit Host
Spirit Host
Spirit Host

Rare - XXX
Terrorgheist
Terrorgheist

2513/2600

I still have 87 points to spend. I was thinking about trying to squeeze in a unit of Hexwraiths instead of the 3rd Spirit Horde but it would require me to go to 12 BK.

I haven't had enough time to research on Swiss and ETC to post a list yet. I will edit it tonight after looking.

I expecet my brother to be bringing hard lists as well so any advice is greatly welcome.

Well, this sounds like a fun idea! If I could ever get MY brother to finish his silly DoC collection... 
Anyways, um, looking at the VC list...

Well, before I go into that, I notice you're new to the forums. Welcome! I dunno how much experience you have with Ogres or Warhammer, but I'll say what I can to help.

1. First thing that caught my eye: 3 Spirit Hosts. These units are somewhat annoying, as they are 'ethereal', meaning they can only be attacked by magical weapons or spells. They basically get caught in a unit and hold it up forever, since 90% of non-character units have nonmagical attacks. To counter this, either run a couple Firebellies (the lore of Fire has plenty of nuke spells to annihilate them, as well as to pepper the other units), or to run a Bruiser with a cheap, 5-point magic weapon; that way, he can still pummel the stuffings out of those spirits.

2. Double Terrorgheist; can be very annoying, as they have a scream which affects you based upon your leadership, and Ogres have notoriously mediocre leadership (7's mostly, with a few 8's and such). However, Terrorgheists crumple in CC against our guys, simply because we can hit them hard enough; and although they have Regeneration, if you brought Firebellies, their Flaming Attacks can negate that regeneration basically making them defenseless (except for that whole, oh, toughness 6 thing? lol). We do have the beautiful creation known as the Ironblaster. That cannon will decimate them easily, and as long as they fail their Regen, they're pretty much done for the round. With that being said...

3. Double Vamps on Black Knights... Yuck. One has the Ironcurse Icon (giving 6+ ward to cannon fire), and both of them are kitted out quite nastily. I'd say... Use single sabretusks to divert and plug them up, and after your Ironblaster(s?) finish off the Terrorgheists, focus fire on them; even the 6+ ward's bound to fail once in a while. In fact... if you take 2 Ironblasters, I'd say have one focus on the Terrorgheists, and the other focused on that Black Knight horde. Other than that, maybe a kitted out Tyrant to hopefully hammer down their V. Lord, who will definitely being sending challenges every turn.

...That being said, here's my random list idea. No Points, don't know how balanced, but here we go!

Tyrant - Heavy Attack build (there's a few around the forums, I won't retype them)
Bruiser - BSB, cheap magic weapon and some defensive gear
2 Firebellies - kitted either combat or magic-oriented; you could try a Hellheart, since both his Vampires are casters...?

7-8 Ironguts, Tyrant here; to take the brunt of the Black Knight charge; less characters in here means less power to the lvl 4's Sword of Anti-Heroes.

3x4-6 Bulls/Ironguts - Put a character in each unit, maybe having the BSB near the Tyrant to share the leadership bubble. Spreading out the characters helps again with the Anti-Heroes sword, and also gives you a way to deal with Spirit Hosts, as well as anything else that may threaten your troops.

3x1 Sabretusk - Redirectors that can hold up either the Black Knights or the Spirit Host for at least a turn or two, which can help you get set up for those fateful charges.

2x4 Leadbelchers - A bit random, but they can deal with those Dire Wolves, as well as a good thumping unit for flank charges or what not. I wouldn't waste them shooting at the big priority targets (believe me, from experience, my leadies haven't fared well against Terrorgheists lol), but using them to clear out chaff and getting support charges in later.

3 Mournfang - Use them to munch up the core packs, ie the zombies and ghouls; Mournfang love T3 infantry, and can easily kill 15-20 in a charge. I only say 3 because he's not running any giant buses, and you don't want them fighting the Knights, the Gheists, or the Hosts. I'd almost even put them in the center of the field and shoot them straight at those core blocks.

2 Ironblasters - Gotta have a way to blast those Gheists out of the sky, and maybe a chance to soften up the Black Knights before the final grind.

---

Now, understanding that I probably listed more points than you have available, I just wanted to give you some ideas to help combat this list. Hopefully this helps somewhat.

Good luck in your games, and I'd love to read a Battle Report about them when the time comes.

Hehehehhe! Brother-love : )

Dont worry, on paper the list is scary but on the table it got alot of drawbacks!

First off, your brother should really add 2 more zombies to his core!! ; )

My experience playing VC is that you will get significantly hampered by the 12" march bubble. Any terrorgeist 12" away from the general can only make a 10" fly-move and considering the base-size of the TG it will have many difficulties to fly in on the flank and scream at you. The same goes for his core. The knight bus will happy and speedy race up in your face while leaving the rest of the army behind. (note that the black knight lose their spectral steed bonus with the vampires join the unit!)

So this will leave your brother with a very strong center and exposed flanks consisting of zombies, spirit hosts and assumable a TG on each flank. I would suggest using gnoblars on your flanks to deny him to fly the TG in positions to scream at anything of value.

Note that almost no tyrant will be able to face the vampire and live - dont even bother unless you get 2-3 buff spells from lore of beasts cast on him every magic phase. However one possible way is: Tyrant, fencers, glittering scale and greedy fist (what actually happens when the VC general is lvl0 and technically not a wizard any longer?! If you can kill the necromancer (sniper-poison maneaters!) his army will crumble). Anyhow, the proposed tyrant will be hit on 5+ and (assuming you the +3T spell from lore of beast) wounded on 6+ (if the tyrant is in combat alone (stupic sword of anti-heroes)). This will significantly reduce the amount of wounds given by the vampire.
Then the trick to beat the guy is to make his unit crumble and eventually he will crumble too.
Be prepared to take a big unit of ironguts for a long grind.

It is a longshot but using a stonehorn to counter-charge (just clip the corner of the unit) will generate a lot of CR from impact hits combined with charging your main combat block.

As mentioned above in my blurp of text - use man eaters with poison+sniper to kill off his necromancer to reduce his raising powers (even the normal vampire will only get a 4+ AS from the brace of handguns). Heck, with poison you can even shot a TG (it get much less scary with a few wounds : )

Finally use the hellheart to force wounds on the vampires and if he rolls template hits you may even kill som knights too. use arcane items like feedback scroll or what they are called to force another wound in his magic phase as he is the main (lvl4) caster.

Alternatively, if you both still live at home... sabotage! Break off the wings of the TGs. Done (Pictures or it didnt happen!)

Alternatively, if you both still live at home... sabotage! Break off the wings of the TGs. Done (Pictures or it didnt happen!)

lol +1 if you wanna never play Warhammer with him again lol

Here are some things I would suggest:

1) I wouldn't bother with leadbelchers. ghouls are T4 and everything else raises so fast for them. The best way to kill them is through crumble.
2) Hellheart will do wonders. Especially since he is likely to have 2 casters in the same group on horses coming after you.
3) Terrorgheists really suck. Definitely bring ironblasters to shoot at them. They are also a great target for bonecruncher.
4) I'd suggest going with a beast slaughtermaster, maw butcher, bruiser bsb, and 13 ogres with a champion. You will have 4 characters up front in a 4x4 formation. Try to get Pann's pelt and savage horrors spells. I call this the ultimate CR formation. You can give the front row +12 attacks at incredible strength, +3 toughness, or +1 str and toughness. And you may even want to give them banner of flame to deny all the regen.
5) sabretusks make great redirectors for those large blocks of undead.
6) Mournfang are also great at CR, especially if you get the charge.

So my list would contain the following elements:
beast slaughtermaster with hellheart, some ward save
maw caster with dispell scroll
bruiser bsb with banner of discipline or fire.
13 ironguts, FC
1-2 units of ironguts
2 units of 3 mournfang. Keep them close to the bsb-general bubble
2 ironblasters

Well to start stay away from that vampire lord. He will kill any character you can field, and be glad he doesn't have the ogre blade. Due to the sword he does have I would not do a character star, just feed him a nice block of ironguts and grind the unit down.

I see two ways to handle the TG, other than charge and grind.

One is dual firebellies. Probably one with hellheart, one with ruby ring/scroll. Spam fireballs and if you get flaming sword put it on an iron blaster to take away regen.

Option two is a decent sized unit of flaming pistol eaters. They can strip regen for the iron blasters or get stuck in and kill it that way.

Then you have the ghoul horde, MFC are your friend here. 4-5 and the dragon hide banner should do nicely.

So maybe your list could look like this:

Lord, probably SM for the +4 to dispel and a magic weapon for ethereals
dual firebellies
BSB, magic weapon

~12 ironguts
some gnoblars to keep the TG from landing

2-3 sabretusks
flaming pistoleaters
mournfangs

ironblaster or two

Poison flaming maneaters with brace of pistols will drop wounds on terrorgheist.. but cannons are your best bet.  you should be all bunched up around your cannons so he cant get them in scream distance till you kill them. Turn 1 and 2 distract the knights and shoot the terrorgheists.

Hellheart is a must.. vamps hate it and he will be rushing his at you. With any luck you will let him get close, pop the hellheart, and the vamp may do wounds on the black knights with the miscast explosion.. then you focus fire on them as hopefully the terrorgheists are dead. Bonecrusher and any other magic.. then leadbelchers.. then cannons when he has no look out sir.

His big flyers need the general to fly 20" so if they are right next to him try to shoot your cannons through the knights and the terrorgheist for bonus kills. Always consider if moving your ironblaster 6" right or left would get a flank shot on the knights.

In the end, stubborn/trollgut ironguts should take out the black knights for the win.

So this is the initial list I have made.


Slaughtermaster: Fencer's Blades; Greedy Fist; Dispel Scroll; Level 4 Wizard; ironfist. 388

Firebelly: Hellheart; Level 2 Wizard. 205
Bruiser: Banner of Eternal Flame; ironfist; heavy armour; battle standard; Lookout Gnoblar. 153

10 Ironguts: Gutlord; Bellower. 450
6 Ogres: Bellower. 190

4 Mournfang Cavalry: standard bearer; Dragonhide Banner; heavy armour; ironfists. 340
8 Leadbelchers: Bellower. 354
1 Sabretusk 21
1 Sabretusk 21
2 Mournfang Cavalry: heavy armour; ironfists. 140

Ironblaster 170
Ironblaster 170

2,602 points

What lores are you running?

I would trade the Lead belchers for man eaters with poison/sniper to kill off character and terrorgeists. The Lead Blechers wont kill anything that cannot be risen again the next round.

I would recommned using the leadership banner on the irongut unit : )

The flaming banner on the BSB seems a bit wasted as the BSB without any addition protection will be eaten by knight and/or vampires : /

A minor thing, your SM cannot have ironfist and fencers blades. Fencers blades take two hands : )

So I ended up Tableing my brother on turn 5, I'll post a mini battle report and exact list when I get home from work.

Nice! Congrats! I hope you both learned a lot about the game, and that you enjoyed your victorious Ogres!

Looking forward to the batrep!

I look forward to the picture of 4 loose terrorgeist wings ; )


Nay, just joking - congratulations : )