What a CF of a situation... Mark of Nurgle, Yhetees, Failed Fear Check

WoC warriors fail the fear check and go to WS 1. Yhetees reduce by 1, making them 0.

Do Yhetees auto hit against the WoC? (the Nurgle -1 to hit against a unit that should be auto hitting according to the rules)?

And when the MoN guys attack back, they hit auto on sixes with WS 0 right?

How the hell do I work this combat out lol

Lol that's a tough one!  I would say that you cannot reduce hitting automatically.  They have no ability to defend themselves whatsoever and so would still be hit.  However, I don't know if this is supported by the rules or not, you could simply agree that your yhetees would hit on a 2+  instead to keep him happy.  Makes little difference for you and keeps the game moving without a hassle.

I think the nurgle guy can still hit on 6's.  Other opinions would be good though.

Ah thank you for your answer.

I actually posted here and on Librarium for more than one view. I'll post the Librarium response on here (it seems you guys agree on the rule, but not the compromise).

"Yhetees auto-hit
"If any creature or object has a WS of 0 then it is unable to defend itself in close combat, and any blows struck against it will therefore automatically hit"
pg 4, Warhammer rulebook

There is no roll to hit. Therefore, there is nothing to apply the Nurgle penalty to.
Unless it has been FAQ'd, the Nurgle warriors will still get attacks back, and will hit on 6's.

Basically, the Nurgle guys are screwed, and are about to be eaten by Yhetees.

-CaptainSarathai

This happened in a game last night. My Yhetees went from hitting his nurgle Gorebeast chariot on a 5+ to auto hitting!... They stomped that chariots face lol.

What happens is this,

The Yhetee rule only effects models in base contact. The fear test applies to everyone.


So, the unit fails the test and drops to WS1. The models in base contact with the Yhetees drop to WS0.

WS0 isn't on the to hit chart, but there is a rule saying that a natural 6 is always a hit and that WS0 is automatically hit.


So, the models in base contact with the Yhetees will only hit the Yhetees on 6s. Everyone else(supporting attacks) will hit on 5+

The Yhetees will automatically hit the enemy as everyone in BtB is WS0, Nurgle doesn't save you.

This happened in a game last night. My Yhetees went from hitting his nurgle Gorebeast chariot on a 5+ to auto hitting!... They stomped that chariots face lol.

Doesn't the Gorebeast Chariot cause Fear? It wouldn't have had to take the test.

This happened in a game last night. My Yhetees went from hitting his nurgle Gorebeast chariot on a 5+ to auto hitting!... They stomped that chariots face lol.

Doesn't the Gorebeast Chariot cause Fear? It wouldn't have had to take the test.

Yeah it actually was the regular chariot, but modeled with the gorebeast. Sorry, my mistake.

**As far as your clarification, thank you for clearing it up a little more. When the situation arose, I was like... oh man here's going be a CF... haha. My buddy is a very good sport and we both agreed the chariot was Auto hit. I'm glad you guy's opinions are agreeing as well.

Thank you!

Playing it the way Grey Templar has said is not a bad way to play it, but does not explicitly follow the rules.

The 'characteristics of 0' rule on Page 4 of the BRB indicates that units with WS0 have no weapon ability at all, which means they have no viable attacks with which to hit.  So the guys in the front row will have no attacks and the guys in the 2nd row will hit on 5's.  It's illogical that the 'always hit on 6's' rule would trump the 'characteristic of 0' rule limitations.

It does not say that WS0 may not make attacks, unlike BS0. It simply says they are automatically hit.

It is a logical failure to equate "has no skill what so ever" with "may not make attacks"

Now, if we did not have the "6s always hit" rule for melee attacks it would be true tha WS0 could not attack as we would not know what they hit other weapon skills on.

It's not a logical failure to equate "has no skill what so ever" with "may not make attacks".  It's a RULE!  And the example of BS0 is even provided to explicitly point it out.  In addition to this rule, it states that opponents trying to hit models with WS0 automatically hit (the first paragraph only covers how a model with WS0 would--or in this case wouldn't--hit so the 2nd paragraph is needed to point out how opponents would hit models with WS0).  The section on page 4 is not silent concerning how models hit when they have WS0, as you suggest.

It would make more sense if the Yhetee's Aura of Frost would apply to all models attempting to hit them in close combat (not only models in base-to-base contact), but alas, the Aura of Frost rules should apply as stated by Grey Templar above.

You are saying that because BS0 is explicitly said to not be able to shoot to infer that WS0 may not attack. It does not say that.

The only rules pertinant to WS0 is the 3rd paragraph.

"If any creature or object has a WS of 0 then it is unable to defend itself in close combat, and any blows struck against it will therefore automatically hit."

That is the only specifc rules regarding WS0, it does not say anywhere that WS0 may not make attacks.


Can you prove that "has no skill what so ever" = "may not attack"

I can.  However, as with all written word everywhere, it is up to the reader to understand/interpret the meaning of the writing.

Some creatures have been given a value of '0' (often shown as a dash:'-') for certain characteristics, which means that they have no ability whatsoever in that skill.  This usually applies to creatures unable to use missile weapons, so they have BS0 or BS-, but it might equally well apply to other characteristics too.  For example, some creatures or warmachines may have no Attacks (A0 or A-).

If your scenario was correct, then a chariot (an inanimate object) with a spell that provides +1 Attack (Birona's Timewarp for instance) in effect could hit and wound opponents in close combat even though it has 'no ability whatsoever' to hit an opponent.  Given, if you go 1 step further and also give the chariot an ability to to hit (for instance, WS10 & I10 by The Speed of Light), but at least then the chariot has been provided an ability to hit and an ability to attack by 2 separate spells.  This scenario is feasible.

My interpretation uses the bolded part of the rule above to equate "has no skill what so ever" with "may not attack" since the rule states BS0 works exactly this way and also states that it may equally apply to other characteristics (no exception is provided for WS, so it must work exactly the same way).  Your interpretation seems to ignore this section.

I just interpret the words in the rules differently than you.

Sure, that would be legal thanks to GW not saying there is a difference between 0/- and not having a characteristic at all.