2400 Point All Comers Need Core Advice

Now that I have officially finalized a Tryant based list, I am not sure how to best spend my core points.  Here is the list I am running:
320 Tyrant Sword of Striking, Dragon Helm, ToP, Rock Eye, Giantbreaker, HA, IF
184 BSB AoD, IF
214 Firebelly Level  2, GW, Hellheart
179 Firebelly Level 1, Dispel Scroll, Ruby Ring, GW
350 Mournfang x4 Dragonhide Banner, HA, IF, Mus, SB
Ironblaster x2
Sabertusks x3

Leaves me 750 for core
Option A
6 Ironguts, FC, Standard of Discipline
6 Ogres FC
6 Ogres FC

Option B
9 Ironguts FC, Standard of Discipline
9 Ogres FC

Really depends on where you want to put your characters, since you are not carrying the Crown of Command anywhere I would say stick with the bigger units, with 2 characters in each unit.  You will be quite durable and are less likely to lose combat.  The harder to kill characters can prevent a lot of damage that would otherwise be directed on to the unit.

I was planning on sticking all the characters in with the Irongut unit.

I also suggest option B. In this edition it seems like units of 6 or fewer Ogres are really just chaff or supporter units. The exceptions being Leadies and Maneaters. If you put all of your guys in one unit it really should be like 9+command+characters. If you put all your guys in the Ironguts with option A, the other units will get picked apart.

I would also try and find some points for some Leadbelchers since you don't have any reliable way of clearing enemy chaff (I don't count spells since they can be stopped).

I might suggest a different build on your BSB and Tyrant. I would do a Tyrant with Fencer's Blades, Glittering Scales, Giantbreaker and The Other Trickster's Shard and for the BSB I would give him Ironfist, Enchanted Shield and Talisman of Preservation. This will improve the survivability of the BSB a lot and the Tyrant will be a little more versatile and hitty. I am a huge fan of The Other Trickster's Shard for an all-comers list because every army has characters with ward saves and some armies have units with ward saves (Trolls, Phoenix Guard, Dark Elves with Cauldron, Empire with Priests, the entire Daemons book, ect.).

Hope this helps,
Triddion

I also suggest option B. In this edition it seems like units of 6 or fewer Ogres are really just chaff or supporter units. The exceptions being Leadies and Maneaters. If you put all of your guys in one unit it really should be like 9+command+characters. If you put all your guys in the Ironguts with option A, the other units will get picked apart.

I would also try and find some points for some Leadbelchers since you don't have any reliable way of clearing enemy chaff (I don't count spells since they can be stopped).

I might suggest a different build on your BSB and Tyrant. I would do a Tyrant with Fencer's Blades, Glittering Scales, Giantbreaker and The Other Trickster's Shard and for the BSB I would give him Ironfist, Enchanted Shield and Talisman of Preservation. This will improve the survivability of the BSB a lot and the Tyrant will be a little more versatile and hitty. I am a huge fan of The Other Trickster's Shard for an all-comers list because every army has characters with ward saves and some armies have units with ward saves (Trolls, Phoenix Guard, Dark Elves with Cauldron, Empire with Priests, the entire Daemons book, ect.).

Hope this helps,
Triddion

Tremendous feedback, cheers mate and a Gnoblar as thanks.

If only A or B are available I'd also go for B.

But it will leave you relatively few drops during deployment (8 as I count). The mournfang and ironblasters need good placement and some knowledge of where your opponent deploys.

Maybe including gnoblars (2+ or 1 unit in deep formation) will also be able to hold off unwanted MC racing to flank your iron gut-power house.
Especially if you put all characters in one unit you can be left in a painful situation against opponents doing the same and with more beefy characters (eg VC, WoC). Here more drops can help you too.

The 9-pack of ogres is an odd size for me. As mentioned above 6 ogres should be optimal for a support unit - 3x3 wont add more attacks but only increase the impact hit +1S.

The 9 unit of iron guts is solid. It is the minimum size I have working breaking heavy cavalry over rounds of combat. With the characters is might even be steadfast against rough MC+characters that would otherwise break you.

But considering you run a tyrant with Ld9, maybe the LD banner is a bit redundant? The dragonhide banner could work here (very alternative, I know), the flaming banner for all-comers is good or the +1movement can make the guts keep pace with the mournfangs.

If you go with the flaming banner I would recommend the tyrant or the BSB to have a non-gw, non-magical weapon so they get flaming and strike before the iron guts and other gw-equiped ogres.

For items I usually go cheap on my BSB and go for a gw or adh, preservation, rock eye. The AS he can get will be eaten by the troops that would otherwise wound him. T5 W4 and 4++ will be fine and if bad stuff is around hold him in the second rank. The tyrant is difficult to dress up but Triddion had some good ideas.

All in all, the more I looked the list over, the better I liked it. Running the tyrant and two firebellies is one of the few lists I have yet to try out. So great inspiration here : )

Enjoy and good luck!

Hm, just remembered that the firebellies got flaming attacks - perhaps give them adh rather than gw so they strike before the iron guts.

Hm, just remembered that the firebellies got flaming attacks - perhaps give them adh rather than gw so they strike before the iron guts.

Thanks for all the great feedback, much appreciated.  I don't have any Gnoblars and have never used them.  Perhaps I will give them a try.

As for the Firebellies, they are I2 so can't I choose to have them strike before the Ironguts if they all have GW anyways?

Call me crazy but I like to have every point of leadership of possible.  It may be excessive but I am going to stick with my LD10.

Crazy ; )

Ld10 will fail about 7-8% of the rolls while Ld9 fails about 16% of rolls, with rerolls by the BSB those numbers become less than 0.7% and 2.5% respectively (rounding numbers roughly). So switching the Ld-banner to another banner could benefit.

Crush the numbers here:
http://anydice.com/ (use this function: output [highest 2 of 2d6])

No gnoblars? They are plentiful in the ogre packages : ) But I use 'battle for skull pass' goblins (we dont play 100% WYSIWYG) myself as I can borrow them rather than having to paint up a pile of gnoblars - not too motivating.

The striking order with GW is independent on their Ini-value. Always strike last is last last last for the whole pack of ogres: )
My experience tells me that a firebelly with A3/4 WS3 S4 can fail to wound alot of things compared to the bruiser.

The striking order with GW is independent on their Ini-value. Always strike last is last last last for the whole pack of ogres: )
My experience tells me that a firebelly with A3/4 WS3 S4 can fail to wound alot of things compared to the bruiser.

Thanks again for the help, it is much appreciated.  My point regarding the Firebelly was that whether he has a great weapon or not, he can strike before the Ironguts.

As for the leadership, that is assuming I am rolling on the full 10.

What he's trying to get at is, that the Firebelly having flaming attacks is meaningless to the save because it all happens at the same time game-wise so he can still use regen for all of the other attacks from the unit, just not from the Firebelly.  But that's why the FB has the breath weapon.  You fire that first at his Initiative and do 2D6 hits at S4 to get rid of the Regen first, then hammer away with the GW.

Yep that is what I meant - thank you. Against some armies (trolls!) fire attacks is very much needed.

But my point was also that the iron gut unit is close to essential for many ogres lists to deal S6 attacks, hence often found in the armies, and changing the banner from the (in my eyes fairly redundant with a tyrant) ld-banner to another (eg. dragonhide) will significantly change the applicability of the unit.

Ld 9 performs fairly well for me - if you lose battle there is something bad happening and then +1 Ld wont do much - then steadfast or stubborn is needed. A maw-butcher with Crown of command can work in second row, but a changing unit of iron guts with a tyrant and the dragonhide banner is just darn effective : )

It is a matter of taste and having Ld10 in an ogre army is another good trick where many opponents will try to exploit the overall normal low Ld. Terror is no problem as we cause fear so worst case we hit on 6's. But VC screamers it hurt.

From your gaming perspective how does the above army perform? Strength/weaknesses?

From your gaming perspective how does the above army perform? Strength/weaknesses?

Im still pretty new to the OK but I think the army performs quite well.

The strengths are close combat and no real reliance on magic.  The Ironblasters can clear out the heavy stuff the Mournfangs with DH banner are infantry slayers and the big blocks are tough to crack.

The weaknesses are no big magic phases, no lvl 4 to dispel and having a ton of points tied up in one block that can be obliterated by an IF roll.

It works for the play style I enjoy.  Not relying on magic, fast in your face combat, some distracting and redirecting with the tusks and blasting stuff with cannons.  I enjoy playing it thoroughly and think it is competitive for sure.

I am concerned about having so much in one big block.  I was thinking of breaking up the core a bit more.
8 Ironguts with the Tyrant and BSB.
2 units of 5 Ogres, each with a Firebelly.

8 IG and 2x 5 ogres is still rather more than 600 pt and can be trimmed a bit : )

The big IG unit is almost mandatory to soak up damage (calculate to survive a brutal charge and still return the maximum damage) and break heavy cavalry charges. 9 IG excluding characters work somewhat for me.

5 ogres plus a FB is a fine support unit but I never had the use for two of them. Maybe increase for 6 ogres so if the FB leaves the unit you still get the S5 impact hits?

Actually, that should take you above 600 pt with a FC+1ld banner on the IG. Add in gnoblars for drops. 30 gnoblars should stay steadfast for a few rounds and serve to hold off enemy shock charges instead of redirecting and can be very useful.

Coming to think of it, only one unit of ogres might be an issue for the placement of the second FB... but he can go with leadbelchers or man eaters, if any  : )

Make the FB with HH lvl1 and put him with bulls. Give him additional instead of GW. Make the FB with ring and scroll lvl2 and put him in IG's with BSB and tyrant. Give tyrant the built that was mentioned earlier in this post..and same for BSB. On the other hand, I second your opinion to give IG's the standard of discipline. Crown of command would be great too. And take 9 IG's.

Give tyrant the built that was mentioned earlier in this post.

Not a fan of the Fencer's Blade, Glittering Robes set up for a Tyrant.  To squishy for my liking.

If that is not to your taste I run mine thusly -
 
Tyrant - HA, Maw Seeker, Tricksters Helm, IF, Biting Blade
WS6 so most units will hit on 5s' (infantry) and would on 6's with T6. Then they need to re-roll all those wounds Then you get HA/parry save
So far he has worked well for me, stick him in the front rank and watch all the allocated attacks bounce off him
 
Chris

If that is not to your taste I run mine thusly -
 
Tyrant - HA, Maw Seeker, Tricksters Helm, IF, Biting Blade
WS6 so most units will hit on 5s' (infantry) and would on 6's with T6. Then they need to re-roll all those wounds Then you get HA/parry save
So far he has worked well for me, stick him in the front rank and watch all the allocated attacks bounce off him
 
Chris

That is how I have been running him myself and like the tankish build.  I am moving one of FBs out of the unit so I am not sure if I want to go more killy or not.  For core I am settled on 7 Ogres with one FB and 9 IGs with the Tryant, BSB and other FB.  Bringing a Gorger just for a curveball

Well Adepticon came and went and I was 3-2.  My first tournament ever and I was just happy to have more wins than losses.  Here was the list I played:

Tyrant HA, IF, Sword of Striking, Talisman of Preservation, Rock Eye, Giantbreaker
Bruiser AOD, IF, BSB
Firebelly Hellheart
Firebelly Dispel Scroll, Ruby Ring
Gorger
4x MF HA, IF, Dragonhide Banner
9x IG FC, Standard of Discipline (everyone but hellheart FB here)
7x Bulls FC, other FB here
2x IBs
2 Tusks

I lost my first game to a crazy shooting O&G list.  Guy placed near the top.  My other loss was to TK with Arkhan the Black.  Made some bad tactical choices in this game and should have won.  Bad play by me cost me this game. Third game of the day and I was kinda beat.  Even forgot my Gorger, which would have been huge against them.

I beat Empire, Dwarves and Lizards.

The Gorger turned out to be huge in all my games (not counting TK where I forgot I had him).  He can really be disruptive and even hold some things up if he gets a rear charge.  He was key in my Lizard victory, holding up Saurus unit for 3 turns!!

The Hellheart worked tremendously in all my games (except of course Dwarves).  I can see why this is so hated.

My canons were disappointing (except the empire game), but that is the risk reward of IBs.

Overall, I think my list was quite solid and performed admirably.  In a better General's hands 4-1 or 5-0 would have been in site.

Thanks for all the help and input, it has been a blast trying out Ogre Kingdoms

Cool! Will you write up a bit more about your games? The 3-2 is awesome - practice makes perfect.

How did the 4x mournafang perform?

Was the ironblasters better as chariots? did they at least force your opponent to deploy differently?

I am really warming up to the tyrant in all-comer lists.

How important was Rock eye? I like the item and it can be excellent.

I didn't take notes but when I find some time I will try and write up some battle reports.

The 4x Mournfangs with Dragonhide Banner did exactly what they should...shred infantry.  I was extremely happy with their performance.  The key is getting them in on the charge in the right situation and being patient with them.  Ignoring their high movement to keep them in place was a lesson I had to learn.

The Ironblaster as a chariot was actually very big for me in two of my games.  Getting off charges late game and swinging combat.  However, the more I play them the less I like them.

Since Adepticon was closed list, the Rock Eye was huge.  No hidden surprises in key units.

I know Gorgers get no love on here, but I absolutely love this guy.  He more than earned his points in every game at Adepticon (except the one I forgot him lol). I run one consistently now.  Played a 2500 point game (SM and BSB only characters) against Empire yesterday and he was key.  Killed a canon and got into the rear of a critical CC.

Excellent.

None of my opponent ever field infantry when playing my ogres but I can imaging the feeling of how the mournfang would perform : )

Gorgers can be a fine gimmick and surely against armies like empire with some stationary shooting units, he can bring home a lot of points!