In Light of the new Tau...

So... I've been on-and-off looking at 40k, and I had decided a couple years ago this simple thing:

If I do play, I'm waiting until Tau gets an update.

...So, guess who's getting an update? lol

If I do play and get the BRB and their stuff... What should I look into? At least, from the old codex perspective? ... I guess it's really early to ask this, since they're only on pre-order right now. But, still.

Any help/advice from the more solid 40k players in this forum? I've never played 40k but I am interested (depending upon finances/life/etc.)

I'm certainly no Tau expert, but I think a few things are obvious: This book is going to be solid. 6th heavily favours armies who are more invested in shooting over combat, especially those who can move and shoot effectively - this just happens to be the playstyle that Tau exemplify. Crisis Suits have been must-takes in every edition thus far and that's highly unlikely to change, especially seeing as the army can't just delete land Raiders at range with ease anymore and are nearly as reliant on close-ranged Melta weaponry as everyone else. Fire Warriors also look really good - they crumple in combat but they can move back and shoot at full effectiveness and if they stand still they put out an extra shot each. Nasty.

Buy Devilfish and Firewarriors to start up your army.  Obviously a mainstay of all Tau armies (Which I don't expect to change) is the Battlesuit.  Your army will probably fill out the Elite slot with XV's and then your core will fill up with Tau Fire Warriors.  I'm not sure what will happen to Kroot, but leave some points for them.  They're the final roadblock to stop you from getting assaulted.

6th does seemingly have a favor for the more shooty armies int his edition since Fliers basically wrecked the game.  So an army like this that has lots of good shooting should be pretty cool.  Hold off on buying Pathfinders for now obviously, but you can load up on Fire Warriors and Devilfish.  Then the new releases can finish you up.

6th does seemingly have a favor for the more shooty armies int his edition since Fliers basically wrecked the game.

I'll try not to stray too far OT (especially as a mod!) but it goes a fair bit further than this. Rapid fire changes, removal of models from the front, overwatch, fleet changes, vehicle disembarkation rules and random charges have all made it very difficult for choppy units to do their jobs anywhere near as well as they used to.

Of course assault isn't out of it at all.

Tau will still rip like a wet tissue in melee and close combat is far from impossible, its just not as easy as it used to be.


As for what to get, suits and Fire Warriors.

Broadsides changed in their roles slightly. They arn't going to kill AV14 anymore, but in exchange they can get Skyfire. Str8 Ap1 skyfire. Thats pretty dang good. And they are still lethal against vehicles without AV14. One unit at least will be a staple. Backed up by a couple of Hammerheads for the Str10 AP1 support.

The Riptide will definitly be a useful addition, although we arn't completely sure about its uses yet. Just a bigger suit from the looks of it.

The Fire Warrior upgrade character will be a useful addition, get as many as possible. Extra shots will be very useful.

Your best bit is the standard 2 troops and HQ which is the mainsty of any army, get a crisis suit leader with bodyguard then two blocks of fire warriors rapid fireing 30inch range pulse rifles with move and fire now will be awesome! Try not to worry about combat too much if your enemy has a unit thats built for combat they are going to shred anything it dosent matter you have poor ws/I/armour save because they would still shred you even if you had better. Now you can't massacre into another unit its better they destory one unit because then they are free to shoot in your next turn!

Good luck with em dude they look pretty tasty model wise,
TLK

In the old book, the tactic of choice was a 'dumbfish', which was a devilfish with Firewarriors in it and a Disruption Pod. this gave the devilfish a 3+ cover save if it moved in teh movement phase, and a 2+ cover if it moved in the shooting phase...Just hold 3 of those behind your lines, then turn 4 move them all up and either claim or contest objectives.

I can't wait to see what tricks the new book gives us, but I would say get (in order of importance) Crisis suits, Firewarriors, Devilfish,  Broadsides, a hammerhead, Pathfinders (markerlights are awesome....), and a flier.

Things to stay away from; Ethereal - I hear they aren't that great even in the new book.
Vespids - They are trash in the old book, and I'm not expecting much better...
Pirahnas - This one I'm skeptical on. I hear they might be worth it in the new book, but as a Front Armor 11 open topped vehicle with 2 HP, they die too easily, especially how you have to get close for them to be effective.
Kroot - Buy these for annoyance. Outflank with them, contest objectives, shoot things so the enemy thinks it's worth it to kill them, but do not get them into combat. I know they look like Tau's saving grace in the assault phase, but they can barely fight an even number mob of Orks...

Saw a few pages of my friend's codex yesterday, and gotta say; This codex is the best one of 6th ed!
With their support fire rule (everyone has it except for tanks), units that get charged can overwatch, and unengaged units within (12/6" I don't remember) can also overwatch!!!
A Crisis Suit can fire off potentially 12 Missiles a Turn! (Costs a good bit though)
A Firewarrior Hq is now out, and also not a SC! He gives some cool rule to fire warriors and makes gunline Fire Warriors inpossible to crack.
The Riptide is monstrous for what it can do. Want a S10 Ap1 weapon? Want it twin-linked? Want 72" range" How about 2 of them? (Yep. 2) They are also Elites, meaning I could go Firewarrior Core, 3 Riptides and 3 Hammerheads in a small game. Thats a lot of shooting power.
Weaknesses:
The old Devilfish trick was lost I think. They don't operate the same way on cover saves.
Weapons got slightly more expensive then before.
All of their SC are OP, and likely to be banned someplaces.
Still combat squishy, and kroot haven't changed at all.
Vespids are utter crap, aswell as Ethereals.
Broadsides were toned down a bit, but not much.
Not many blast weapons; more shots or heavy lasers...
Their flyers are not that great in comparison to their new toys.
Strenghts:
They lol at IG Leman Russes. First turn and their popped.
Mitigate combat with overwatching a ton of units.
Insanely powerful weapons.
Good pricing on models.
Good core troops and good Hq.
Maybe the best Elites in the game?

Range on support fire is 6" which just made the loud hailers on my Chaos Rhinos mandatory (no overwatch within 6"). In fact that might be an FAQ question, if the unit you charge cannot overwatch, can the supporting units?

Range on support fire is 6" which just made the loud hailers on my Chaos Rhinos mandatory (no overwatch within 6"). In fact that might be an FAQ question, if the unit you charge cannot overwatch, can the supporting units?

Saw a few pages of my friend's codex yesterday, and gotta say; This codex is the best one of 6th ed!
With their support fire rule (everyone has it except for tanks), units that get charged can overwatch, and unengaged units within (12/6" I don't remember) can also overwatch!!!
A Crisis Suit can fire off potentially 12 Missiles a Turn! (Costs a good bit though)
A Firewarrior Hq is now out, and also not a SC! He gives some cool rule to fire warriors and makes gunline Fire Warriors inpossible to crack.
The Riptide is monstrous for what it can do. Want a S10 Ap1 weapon? Want it twin-linked? Want 72" range" How about 2 of them? (Yep. 2) They are also Elites, meaning I could go Firewarrior Core, 3 Riptides and 3 Hammerheads in a small game. Thats a lot of shooting power.
Weaknesses:
The old Devilfish trick was lost I think. They don't operate the same way on cover saves.
Weapons got slightly more expensive then before.
All of their SC are OP, and likely to be banned someplaces.
Still combat squishy, and kroot haven't changed at all.
Vespids are utter crap, aswell as Ethereals.
Broadsides were toned down a bit, but not much.
Not many blast weapons; more shots or heavy lasers...
Their flyers are not that great in comparison to their new toys.
Strenghts:
They lol at IG Leman Russes. First turn and their popped.
Mitigate combat with overwatching a ton of units.
Insanely powerful weapons.
Good pricing on models.
Good core troops and good Hq.
Maybe the best Elites in the game?

So, lemme get this straight...

I'm assuming, from a "never-played-40k-ever" perspective, that Overwatch=stand-and-shoot, roughly?
If so, then Necrotix, I'm gonna guess that supporting units can't overwatch either if no one's allowed to via a special rule

They sound like a lot of fun, but I just looked at the prices... US$85 for one Riptide? Yuck! I mean, to build the simple "Fire-Tide-Side" setup in Brainfreezer's post, starting from absolute scratch, I'd be putting well over 400 just to get started... and that's without any variety :S

But, nobody ever said Warhammer was good to the wallet

I'm assuming, from a "never-played-40k-ever" perspective, that Overwatch=stand-and-shoot, roughly?

Yup, but at BS1. Furthermore, the way in which casualty removal and charging works in 40k means that you could potentially bump off enough models from the front of the unit to stop a charge from being successful (and the chargers aren't allowed to move at all if they fail and have to sit around for another turn of full BS shooting - ouch!).

A Firewarrior SC can make the unit move d6" away after overwatch.
And yes the supporting units can fire overwatch because the rule says "rergardless of model weapon range or the unit's range. Plus Tau can overwatch within any distance with some shockwace thingy (drone I think)
And Sazel, Overwatch is just like Stand and Shoot, only at Bs1 and tanks can never do it.
Another cool SC is a tank commander guy who gives all Hammerheads within 6" Preferred Enemy (IG) and a Bs5! For 100pts though,

And yes the supporting units can fire overwatch because the rule says "rergardless of model weapon range or the unit's range.

I'm going to support Chaos here and continue on the "no they can't rule" if the supporting unit is within 6" of the Dirge Caster too as the rules says "units within 6" cannot fire overwatch." I suppose it's FAQ worthy to see if a unit is denied the opportunity to fire overwatch at all if a supporting unit is allowed to as it's not a matter of weapon ranges but a matter of being denied the use of the rule.

Don't forget that the special character in the tank also lets you fire overwatch with his tank and that he can fire multiple over watches despite the normal restrictions.  Of course I never use SC as a general rule in my lists but it's out there.

Okay, I'm reviving this post now that the Tau have been out a month or so...

Any new info on them? I don't know if I'll have the budget for them in my lifetime ($85 for the riptide? silly), but I'd like to know, nevertheless

Tau can be ridiculous. Played a 8 games and ive only survived past T2 once.
 
I play Space wolves and have quite a few local tournament wins this edition under my belt, for the life of me I cannot beat the new tau! 3d6 assault phase movement?! 4 shots for firewarriors and the Riptide is aptly named! Nova charge that think and it will annihilate a squad a turn on its own.
7/8 games I have had 1-2 models remaining on the table, the amount of firepower they can bring is just silly and its all well and good saying "use cover" but that means I also spend longer out of combat and those marker lights make it pointless!
 
Chris

Yeah, the new Tau book is pretty awesome! I played one game with it so far, and shooting 10 markerlights every turn at BS5 is just silly.

I fought an Orc footslogger list of more than 200-ish Orcs, he had one unit left because they hid behind a building the whole game. (1500 pts) Markerlights, the riptide, a Cadre Fireblade and TONS of Fire Warriors!