Need Advice on Gearing Characters

Hello all,

I am a new Ogre Kingdom player seeking advice on how to gear up my Lords and Heroes.

When playing a 2500 point game I expect to be taking;

Lords/Heroes:
Tyrant (General)
Slaughtermaster (Level 4) - not sure which lore of magic I should use.
Bruiser (BSB)
Fire Belly (Level 2) - Lore of Fire

I plan to sit them all in a unit of 14 Ironguts.

The rest of my army will comprise of;
6x Ogres
4x Saybertusks (1 unit of 2 and 2 units of 1 - 3 units all up)
4x Leadbelchers
2x Mournfang
Ironblaster

What items should I give me Lords and Heroes?

-Chabs

Well, the first thing that you'll have to be cognizant of is that you'll be bumping up against the Lords cap because of having both a Tyrant and a Slaughtermaster (who has to be Lore of the Great Maw, given your army setup - if that doesn't appeal to you, that Firebelly has to become a Butcher). I would advise gearing both of them light on defensive gear (so all offense for the Tyrant, magic defense and utility for the SM), and then spamming Trollguts to make up the difference. The Firebelly should have the Hellheart, because I think that's the best magic defense item that Ogres have access to, and the Bruiser should either follow the lead of the Tyrant and SM and run light on defense (take the Crown of Command with those points!), or be paranoid and take the 4+ Ward anyway.

Also, why the unit of 6 Ogres? 14 IGs fills minimum Core, feed the Mournfangs or the Leadbelchers (or both) instead. You should also refrain from fielding Sabretusks in anything but 1s - one casualty for that unit of 2 will force them to take a Panic test, and since they can't use the General's Ld, they are almost certain to fail. Don't throw your chaff away like that.

Drop the Tyrant for more Bulls.

And with that Hero setup your Slaughter Master MUST use Gutmagic. Not to worry, its an amazing lore.

And buff your Mournfangs up to 4 strong.

Don't run Sabretusks in units of more than 1. It completely destroyes their ability to redirect and mess with the enemy. put the points for the 4th elsewhere.




For actual gear.

I like to give my Slaughtermaster the Armor of Destiny, an ironfist, Crown of Command, and a magic weapon with the points left over.

My Bruiser runs with the Dragonhelm, Heavy Armor, Ironfist, and Ogre Blade.

For the Firebelly, give him an XHW and Dispel scroll.

I'd drop the tyrant and the unit of bulls and run with maneaters instead.

You also may want to consider going with a heavens butcher instead of a firebelly. Ice shard blizzard is great for protecting a horde of ironguts. You are going to win or lose with that horde.

As for magic items, Definitely a crown of command on a character in the irongut horde. This to me is #1 priority. You don't want that unit to break. I would consider the runemaw banner on your bsb. And hellheart is great for stopping that suicidal death mage that is trying to purple sun that horde. You have lots of str 6 attacks, so I wouldn't worry about putting higher strength weapons or GW on your characters. I personally don't like putting a ward save on my maw slaughtermaster because he will hopefully be casting trollguts and can recover wounds through maw. Only thing I usually put a ward save on is a bsb if he's not carrying a banner.

And if you are adamant about running with a tyrant (which sometimes I even am), I like trickster helm and mawseeker. rerolling 6's and the occasional 5's to wound is really nice.

And if you are adamant about running with a tyrant (which sometimes I even am), I like trickster helm and mawseeker. rerolling 6's and the occasional 5's to wound is really nice.

I don't get why people always talk about 6's to wound,.... mawseeker makes him toughness 6, and any enemy hero/lord worth his salt, that you're in a challenge with will at least have strength 6... And let's face it, you almost always want your general in a challenge with the opponents general, for coolness if nothing else.

Unless ofc you have say, a 3+4++ battlestandard bearer in the same unit and use him to accept the challenge leaving the tyrant to attack and be attacked from rank and file which i personally wouldn't do, then again i've never run a  tyrant.

I run a similar set of characters at 2.5k:

Tyrant gets heavy armour, sword of striking, greedy fist, enchanted shield, other trickster's shard.
Slaughtermaster gets an additional hand weapon, a dragonbane gem and a dispel scroll.
BSB gets a heavy armour, ironfist, dragonhelm and crown of command.
Firebelly gets an additional hand weapon and the hellheart. (I usually run a butcher with a great weapon and hellheart)

I don't get why people always talk about 6's to wound,.... mawseeker makes him toughness 6, and any enemy hero/lord worth his salt, that you're in a challenge with will at least have strength 6... And let's face it, you almost always want your general in a challenge with the opponents general, for coolness if nothing else.

No, you don't. Ever heard of Vampire Lords? Or Daemon Princes? Or Greater Daemons? Or Doombulls? The Tyrant is an above-average fighter, but there are things you don't ask him to do.

***Thumbs Up for Rothgar!***
I have in total 4000pts of ogres, yet I only play at 2-2.2k. I have tried most if not all variations across my last 20 games. I found running Tyrant, BsB and dual belly more of a challenge hence why I am sticking with it.
Your tyrant can accept challenges yes, he can be very dangerous to other lords having 5 wounds and T6 re-rolling wounds!. But I generally accept with unit champion and let my Tyrant trash his rank and file for some really easy combat res, and all rank + file in contact with him realistically cant hurt him.
There are fights you avoid and win via playing smart ie rank + file combat res to run a tough lord down.
Just because you have a big fighty ogre in the front rank doesn't mean he is immune to harm, they tyrant needs to be played delicately as he is much harder to use than a SM.(IMHO and experience)
 
As for the list I would run 1 or the other, Personally for ease of use I'd take a Slaughter master and make my gut star more survivable and easier to use
 
My character set up -
Slaughter master -
Level 4, Gruts Sickle, Crown of command, + something else, you got 15pts to use
2 level 2 Firebellys -
1 with Obsidian lodestone (+3 magic resist to whole unit giving 3+ against ALL magic, I find it more useful than Maw banner as not every spell we NEED to deflect "targets" us ie Purple sun etc) Btw does this work against magic weapons?! Just a question
Other with Dispel Scroll or Power Stone. 2 level 3 fireballs can ruin someone's day
Bruiser -
BsB, and some armour... I don't always rely on Troll guts even with a +7 to cast (Gruts, Maw passive, Level 4)
As for your ogres, they are not serving your any purpose. That I can see anyway. Such a small unit in 2500pts is just easy Vp and a minor speed bump at best. I would take another cannon and beef up your MFC even 2 units of 3 with Flaming banner/Swiftness on one
 
Just my 2 cents
Chris
 
Edit - I also second the sabre tusk comment, 3x1 is the most effective way to use them

No go on MR and magic weapons. That would be amazing if it were true.

Too much to hope for I guess then Thanks for clearing that up!
 
Chris

Since this is about how you want your characters outfitted and not adjusting your entire list...

Tyrant: Giantbreaker, AHW, HA, Talisman of Endurance
Slaughter Master: Level 4, AHW, Grut Sickle, Talisman of Protection
BSB: HA, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation
Firebelly: Level 2, Dispel scroll

Your Tyrant is outfitted for fair strength and some protection, your Slaughter Master is a casting monster (don't forget bloodgruel for +1 casting), your BSB is well protected and your firebelly is good for secondary casting/dispel and scroll caddy.

And if you are adamant about running with a tyrant (which sometimes I even am), I like trickster helm and mawseeker. rerolling 6's and the occasional 5's to wound is really nice.

I don't get why people always talk about 6's to wound,.... mawseeker makes him toughness 6, and any enemy hero/lord worth his salt, that you're in a challenge with will at least have strength 6... And let's face it, you almost always want your general in a challenge with the opponents general, for coolness if nothing else.

Unless ofc you have say, a 3+4++ battlestandard bearer in the same unit and use him to accept the challenge leaving the tyrant to attack and be attacked from rank and file which i personally wouldn't do, then again i've never run a  tyrant.

I very rarely accept a challenge with my tyrant. I need him to generate CR and block CR. Most lords, he will hit on 4's. Most infantry he will hit on 3's. Most lords, he will wound on 3-4's, most infantry he will wound on 2's. Most lords have a good armor/ward saves. most infantry do not.

rerolling 6's is most profound when he goes up against something like a block of elven spearmen. Lets say, he goes up against a block of 50 in horde formation. Lets assume the fear test is passed. Spearmen will get 20 attacks. (4 columns, 5 rows). They hit on 4's rerollable. That would be 20 * (0.5 + 0.5^2) = 15 hits. To wound would be 15 * (0.1667^2) = 0.42. Then we got the 3+ AS so that would be 0.42 * (1/3) = 0.14. That horde of 50 spearmen has a 14% chance of causing a wound mostly thanks to that reroll. Now the tyrant attacks back. He will have 5 * (2/3) = 3.33 Hits. That would be 3.33 * (5/6) = 2.77 wounds.  Oh then theres the str 5 stomp thats wounding on 2's which brings him up to 3.6 wounds.  So not only does he absorb all 20 attacks with little chance of getting a wound, but he is likely to cause 3-4 wounds himself. This is what I call a CR machine!

Oh, and give him a great weapon, and now he can smash warmachines and/or monsters as a side hobby!

But he still not as good as a slaughtermaster...

Too much math hammer nells!
But ill give you a gnoblar for it.
I use my tyrant in the same way, he just sits at the front dishing out silly damage against rank + file and that 300pt lord that just challenged you got a 50pt model and is more than likely going to run through CR.
Recently I pitted a TK Tomb guard bus against my Gut buss with Tyrant. Damn does it hit hard!? WS6 Skeles!  Anyway I won the combat but that was because I out pointed him a little and the Tyrant + 2 Bruiser Set up didn't let many wounds through. Because I reformed the turn before 3x4 he only had 1 extra rank, 1 banner and 2 wounds due to challenge. (accepted with champion) In return I had 12 wounds, charge, BsB + banner. So half his unit died in 1 turn, lost frenzy etc.
Where as If I had challenged I would have likely lost 4 of those wounds due to his TK having Armour of destiny. So yeh playing smart with a tyrant is key.
 
Chris

With regard to outfitting characters, i always take the philosophy:
what is their role in this army? ie VC need strong CR generatign attacks. But ogres need supporting characters as their own core is deadly and resilient. sooo....

General - no matter if its a tyrant or SM, he must be protected. he must have good leadership. offensive weapons are a teritiary requirement as really if its in a unit of 10 IGs or bulls they will kill enough to do their own CR gereation and will not notice an extra 2 or 3 wounds being done. I always give them:

General
4+ or 5+ ward save. - need to stick around.
stubborn helm - if you get outflanked or somehow have massive CR against you its nice to be stubborn.
a good armour save
maybe a D scroll but that depends on the supporting mages outfit.
- a cheap magic weapon to counter ethereal.
SM- lvl 3 is usually enough.

BSB
- a 4+ or 5+ ward save
- good armour
- maybe a cheap weapon to counter ethereal
- no magic banner
his reroll from the bsb is too important to lose from damage

support mage 1
- hellheart
- lvl 2 to help get it through

support mage 2
- dscroll
- cheap magic weapon
- maybe lvl 2 to help get it through

2 level 2 Firebellys -
1 with Obsidian lodestone (+3 magic resist to whole unit giving 3+ against ALL magic, I find it more useful than Maw banner as not every spell we NEED to deflect "targets" us ie Purple sun etc) Btw does this work against magic weapons?! Just a question
Other with Dispel Scroll or Power Stone. 2 level 3 fireballs can ruin someone's day

Purple sun says no saves of any kind.  I'm I missing somethng that allows magic resistance ward save to be used?

Your not missing anything. You are correct.
 
It is just the way my LGS plays so there is no insta-win spells
 
Chris

Your not missing anything. You are correct.
 
It is just the way my LGS plays so there is no insta-win spells
 
Chris

i like this far better than the actual rules

Indeed. Even though those spells have high casting values they are not hard to attain.
Dwellers, Purple Sun, Pit of Shades are all insta-win spells unless your opponent is particularly poor
My local Games Workshop playes that MR is usable against ALL spells even the ones that nullify ward saves, I mean that's what magic resistance is right? the ability to resist magic
It all changed after the new ogre book people just kept dropping purple sun T1. sometimes two of them if it was a good magic phase and there is no recovering from that. So we "amended" the rules to make the game a little more balanced in regards to spamming those spells.
 
Chris

What caught me was the amount of people who didn't realise you had to pick your lore as part of your army list - not deployment. So not only were my Ogres falling down holes, but there were Warriors getting mauled by Golden Hounds, Demons getting mass Banishment, Wood Elves getting set on fire constantly, and everyone else getting Dwellers pulling them apart, all to the point where we were getting a bit miffed with how much magic affected the game.

Even after we rectified this it did feel like against some armies there were just rather silly advantages.

MR never really appealed to me for just how much it never seemed to matter. Your rules sure do sound better.