The Maw Spell , my thoughts

Hey all , I had a thought the other day , foot of grok is arguably the best spell in the Orc lore but it too has its down falls by rolling a 1 your opponent places the template, on the cast of a 18+ for the big version , why wouldn't you cast with the 50% chance to stomp the unit again. The maw on the other hand with the combination of the gut sickle and lore attribute its a 14+ direct damage large template D6 wounds , one of my main opponents is TK so I see this as being a devastating spell to his Knights or his big monsters, but even on other army's doesn't matter if they pass the I tests or not theres a lot of models that can be covered by that template. I no it can back fire but as foot of gork can as well and people say that this spell is OP and its so great . I've heard reviews and people bagging out this spell. Personally I think it's pretty good. What do yous reckon?

Having played but 2 battles yet I am a fan.
Either passing or failing will get wounds on.

I also used the sickle. Awsome one day it will backfire. But ogres will have feast Either way

You must really want to kill your caster, giving yourself 3 chances to do so.  Misscast, maw missfire, and getting gutted by the sickle!  Seriously tho, I have thought about using it with a lvl 2 who I don't care about and was basically running around on his own, but then I realized that if you missfire, it doesn't center on the caster, your opponent can place it anywhere?!!?  Stupid.

I rarely take the maw (only if I'm facing a horde of ogres or trolls or if I've rolled some other spell more useless - the panic test spell against undead or daemons for example - that needs to be dropped to sig).

I've tried to cast it maybe only half a dozen times. It's only gone off twice and it missed horribly both times.

It's a terrible, terrible spell. It's like they took pit of shades and in typical GW style, thought up three ways to balance it and implemented them all, making it useless.

1) Range. 18" is often too short to be very helpful in a situation where you actually want ranged damage.
2) Scatters too far. An artillery dice is able to scatter even the big template very far. You really need a hit.
3) The misfire effect is horrific.

All this for a high casting cost.

To scary of a misfire. I Never take it unless i have too and even then I think I have cast it 1 time during the course of around 75 games.

I actually used it twice against an ogre player last tournament i went, it totally destroyed his horde giving me an easy win . I even had gruts sickle on my sm.

No guts.....No glory

I agree thruul I see it as risky = reward I mean in a tournament you would have a have a think about gut sickle. Vs the right opponent this spell is quite good I think.

I have used it several times with decent results. It is scary so you need to decide if is worth the risk.

Have used it quite a bit, yet to have it misfire but when it does I'm expecting to be mulched.

Though I tend to fire it off early in the piece, so I have a chance of surviving the backfire.

I rarely take the maw (only if I'm facing a horde of ogres or trolls or if I've rolled some other spell more useless - the panic test spell against undead or daemons for example - that needs to be dropped to sig).

I've tried to cast it maybe only half a dozen times. It's only gone off twice and it missed horribly both times.

It's a terrible, terrible spell. It's like they took pit of shades and in typical GW style, thought up three ways to balance it and implemented them all, making it useless.

1) Range. 18" is often too short to be very helpful in a situation where you actually want ranged damage.
2) Scatters too far. An artillery dice is able to scatter even the big template very far. You really need a hit.
3) The misfire effect is horrific.

All this for a high casting cost.

I completely agree with the above.
Range and scatter makes it useless. The missfire is just downright a gamestopper. I have never used it. In comparison to almost all other template spells this is just too bad.

Besides there are tons of (situationally) better spells. I go for stability and synergies in my army. Even the maw sig spells can be a game winner in the right situation.

Cheers!

In my mind, maw is great if you need a chance to change the direction of the game. You are getting your butt kicked. You have lost a lot of your army. Beefing up whats left of your current army with regen, str, or toughness won't get you over that hump. So you try to six dice a large template directly over the big block of an opponent. You hope for a direct hit. You hope for many initiative test failures. You hope for a panic. It's the only spell we have with the potential to lift many models without any kind of support. But in general, I do not think it is worth the risk. 95% of the time, using the dice on trollguts is far better.

In my mind, maw is great if you need a chance to change the direction of the game. You are getting your butt kicked. You have lost a lot of your army. Beefing up whats left of your current army with regen, str, or toughness won't get you over that hump. So you try to six dice a large template directly over the big block of an opponent. You hope for a direct hit. You hope for many initiative test failures. You hope for a panic. It's the only spell we have with the potential to lift many models without any kind of support. But in general, I do not think it is worth the risk. 95% of the time, using the dice on trollguts is far better.

+1

This about sums up the usefulness of the Maw Spell.

I agree with nells on this. I don't normal use this spell. The only spell I find more useless is Braingobber but when you don't have much to lose why not take a chance?

Sadly the one time I was losing badly enough and my Wizard was still alive, well it didn't end well for me. I misfired and lost what was left of my bulls. Other times I tried it, it scatter off target and did nothing.

For our biggest spell and the only new one, I'm greatly disappointed.

Its not bad against T3 infantry because no matter what they're taking a hit of some kind.

The issue is actually hitting them without screwing yourself. Seriously, the Maw didn't need a downside to being cast. Pit of Shades needs a downside.

I used it once against an HE player in a 1500 point game. I misfired. He killed an entire unit of bulls. I haven't cast it since.

In my mind, maw is great if you need a chance to change the direction of the game. You are getting your butt kicked. You have lost a lot of your army. Beefing up whats left of your current army with regen, str, or toughness won't get you over that hump. So you try to six dice a large template directly over the big block of an opponent. You hope for a direct hit. You hope for many initiative test failures. You hope for a panic. It's the only spell we have with the potential to lift many models without any kind of support. But in general, I do not think it is worth the risk. 95% of the time, using the dice on trollguts is far better.

I agree

Everytime the outcome of a game is determined by a IF template spell killing the core of either army I cry a little inside and Im sure somebody kills a kitten.

Surely, it is part of the game but oh my it gets boring.
If so running a lvl4 SM+maw lore packed with the power scroll and two butchers+lore of the maw will get you the 6th spell on your SM and almost 100% chance of casting it at least once per battle. Then 1/6 you will almost instant lose, due to missfire, and about 2-3/6 of all games you may be on the fat track to a fat win (with a hit of small scatter). If you avoid high ini armies you can be almost sure to win more than you lose. If this is an appealing gaming style then the Great maw super spells is not too bad. Obviously the same can be said for a death SM with purple sun : )

It remains too much of a 'hit or miss' for my liking.

I've been having way too much fun with my 2 lvl 2 Firebellies (one with ruby ring ) throwing Nets of fire on enemy units and giving me Flaming cannonballs to throw at enemy monsters.  I haven't even considered a LoTGM caster in ages.

I watched a magic tatica Video by oncebitten360, and he said that if two wizards rolling on the same lore roll the same spells 1 wizard can choose what he can have , because both wizards carnt have the same spell other then the signature is that right?

I watched a magic tatica Video by oncebitten360, and he said that if two wizards rolling on the same lore roll the same spells 1 wizard can choose what he can have , because both wizards carnt have the same spell other then the signature is that right?

Correct. One has to take the spell that was rolled (or sig spell) and one can take a free choice. However you can only take 1 sig spell per caster. No lvl 2 fire belly with 2x fireball and ruby ring of ruin for a third fireball (although how awesome would that be)

No lvl 2 fire belly with 2x fireball and ruby ring of ruin for a third fireball (although how awesome would that be)

Um... Is this from a FAQ or something?

No lvl 2 fire belly with 2x fireball and ruby ring of ruin for a third fireball (although how awesome would that be)

Um... Is this from a FAQ or something?

Just need the rulebook, Pg 490:

...Blah Blah Blah.  A Wizard can always choose to substitute ONE of the spells he rolls with the signature spell of a lore... blah blah blah.

So you can't have 1 lvl 2 Firebelly with ruby ring for 3 fireballs.

The only spell I find more useless is Braingobber

It's situational, but I find braingobbler can be very useful. A lot of cheap chaff out there is low leadership. For two power dice, you can virtually get rid of it. You don't need to use leadbelchers, freeing them up to shoot at meatier targets. You don't need to tie up your combat units that extra turn.  A spell that can clear the way for a meaningful charge the next round can be very powerful!

Also keep in mind, it's a cheap hex. I've cast this spell on enemy units engaged in combat. Sure the unit will automatically pass the panic test since its engaged. But I needed my slaughtermaster to regain a wound, and I wanted that +1 to dispell. Maw is so great, that even just the lore attribute is really useful.

It can also often take a war machine out for a turn and occasionally it's worth throwing out there to draw out dice. Are they going to take the risk that their powerful unit flees off the board turn one, however low it might be?

It's one of those spells that' really situational but it can be useful. Like the Maw I suppose although without the risk of self-destruction.

Brain gnoblar is great for getting rid of the unkillable dreadlord or a couple of wounds of 1up armour. I like it but prefer heavens overall.

Never taken the maw spell. Never felt the risk was worth it.

So you can't have 1 lvl 2 Firebelly with ruby ring for 3 fireballs.

I really should read what people write before replying.

I thought you wrote two firebellies that couldn't use the ring.

Also a big fan of Braingobbler, but it's situational.  Played TK last night and rolled Braingobbler.  Wonderful.  So that got sigged.

By the same token though, I've on a whim thrown Braingobbler at a unit of Thunderers in Turn 1 and ran them off the board after a series of spectacular failures (failed to dispel, even with Anvil o' doom, failed leadership test, failed leadership reroll).

I think The Maw spell would be fine with just maybe one or 2 less downsides to bring it in line with other #6 big spells.
-Short range
-Misfire and it can't get a second misfire, so we regain control = more accurate for enemy!
-Big scatter
-Most enemies' Initiative is 3 or better, so it works better against us than them
-Already a 15+ to cast or 21+ to give it a chance of hitting something = miscast

I will always swap this spell if possible, its just too risky and unreliable for the BIG cast. when I could safely get 2 really useful spells off instead.

A few of you have mentioned Braingobbler. Although this is another spell of poor favour, it's sooo much better.
-No use versus 'Immune to Psychology'
-Expensive to cast vs high Ld armies 9+
-Another short range 18" without the bump to 12+ (36")
But there are sooo many more low Ld enemies than low Initiative
There's no backfire issues, (so even though we have low Ld, it's not going to be used against us)
No big risk of miscast, even at long range
As a 'hex' has fewer target limitations
Can still really make a big effect on the game it u send that crucial supporting unit running.

If I get Braingobbler in my local group (mostly Elves) I'll still swap it out for something more useful if possible, UNLESS I already have The Maw.
Hope that sums it up.

I've been thinking a lot about The Maw pros and cons. At first glance heres how casting a boosted Maw looks to me..

Good against low Init or Low T:
Warmachines (auto fail Init test)
Dark Elves infantry
Dwarves
High Elves infantry
Lizardmen infantry
Orcs & Goblins infantry
Ogres
Skaven infantry
Empire
Tomb Kings
Vampire Counts infantry

Bad (High Init and Toughness):
Warriors of Chaos
High Init characters

Meh:
Beastmen, maybe for minotaurs
Bretonnia, for trebuchet and maybe knights

In most of these cases it will work best when boosted to kill the most infantry, but then its a greater risk of a miscast and worse if you roll the dreaded misfire.

There is less miscast risk if I only cast it small so it only needs 4 dice with the +5 I should have to cast
Small template has less chance of boning me if I misfire
Small template will hit monsters or warmachines on a scatter distance of a 2 (5/36 chance factoring in misfire), or a direct hit (12/36 chance).. so almost a 50% chance a small template hits a big target.

There is also less risk it will bone me if I cast regen on my biggest unit first, so I can regen if I misfire. Not likely but just a thought.

So during a game against TK I was using Gnoblar redirectors against his Chariots, and was finding that I was gradually going to lose against shooting and the Casket's Light of Death, since he had a giant chariot block that

I was having trouble getting a charge lane on, and if I'd let it out it would've ran me over (one serious deathstar it was - a King, a bsb, and Nekaph (who had fortunately died early on thanks to a lucky scouting maneater trio).

So I had a go at the Maw spell on only a couple of dice, small version.

It worked rather nicely. I got lucky that it hit, but it took out four chariots, so I can't complain.


It is horrendously risky, but don't forget it's there - it's very useful if a lvl 2 has it since they tend to be off somewhere, sometimes alone, not being massively important.