New Army

Sorry I really wasn't sure where to post this

Anyway basically I have built up a 2500pts ogres army (I will continue to expand slowly)
But am looking for a new army, So far the only game I have lost was my first WHFB game, and now I'm on a 12 game streak. (not getting over confident or anything, but only one of those games was actually challenging) the players I have played against have won several local tournaments and while they didn't bring their tournament lists, neither have I.
I have always been interested and good at strategy games, although mostly on the PC. SC2, Age of empires etc...
Now I'm still new to WHFB, last time I played was 3rd Ed? I think 14 Years ago, whatever Ed that was
So basically what I'm asking is for you guys to give me some advise on different armies that might be more challenging to play while still being interesting to paint I was looking at lizards as that's what I used to collect and I love the models (I might just collect them as a side project anyway ) But Ideally I would like to play a less forgiving army. In the mean time I'm going to throw together some silly lists and see what happens

I've been looking at Tomb Kings, I like the idea of the army. Everywhere I read they are the worst 8th Ed book to date. While I want something more challenging I don't want it to be unplayable

Anyway I'll let you guys leave me some feedback and see where it goes from there.

P.S Hragged, Im sorry if this is in the wrong area

My advice to you is to start TK. It is not unplayable. It's just.. well.. not as great as Ogres and WoC.

I played TK for a long time. I don't consider myself a pro or anything and I consistently won games with TK. They are awesome fluff, cool looking, and damn right fun to play (go Warsphinx!).

They do provide a little more of a challenge than a" ram all your troops down their throat and win" army such as WoC and OK.

Other than that, if you want the most challenging army to play but can still win games with a good player, you should do Wood Elves. I like their look and fluff!

**If you want a challenge, do NOT start Lizards. They are probably the best army right now in Fantasy, or at least tied in the top three with Skaven etc.

Tomb kings are a great army for a warhammer 'player'. By that I mean they only work if you learn how to make them work, but once you have it down they are hard as nails. A good starting point is a unit of Necro Knights ans ramhotep, with ramhotep's Armour Save re-rolls the knights shred infantry. From there gradually work the rest fo the army into something you like playing with, and if you're like me you'll lose the cav and ramhotep for more challenging units after a while.

They are also a great army for a modeller an painter, with the GW armed ushabti being some of the best models workshop have out at the moment IMO.

My younger daughter expressed an interest in learning WFB. She is looking to promote up from official dice thrower to arrow flinging tree-hugging general. Or maybe HE if they get some additional dragon units. Either one would be a challenge for me to convert it to her ideal army, and for her to learn with. TK have some excellent models and great conversion opportunities. My friend had a casket of souls being carried by a bone giant, great for LOS! I also put a dragon skull on a bone giant and green stuffed it to look like an Ushabti. Very cool army to tinker with.

Thank you guys for your input
I have downloaded (boo hiss!!) the TK army book to have a peek The fluff is awesome!! So far my favourite Love reading the stories at the start of the books!
Anyway as for converting they do look like they can be quite interesting! So far my thoughts are boar/lion skulls for heads (as in a cult) or... get this... Skaven have infested the desert and they have "grown" warp stone weapons - I will use clear green acrylic to mould weapon heads etc
Wocha think? lol
As for lizardmen yes that is what I have read, it was really just for nostalgia. Also they are getting an update later this year, I recon they will be knocked off the top spot. I see something happening like slanns will stay relatively similar to present yet they will have to pick all their spells from "Lore of the old ones" as they deem our magics below them.
Also recon they will get Carnosaur monstrous cavalry
Anyway this isn't a discussion on what LM will and wont get
I just think they will be taken down a notch

Chris

Never trust rumours that are that early - GW has been keeping them on a tight leash recently, so most things come out only the week beforehand. Plus, I think people might go nuts if Slann lose access to rulebook lores =P

Always pick the army that appeals to you the most in Warhammer. A lot of people bash TK, but my friend who plays them loves them, and that's what counts.

Always pick the army that appeals to you the most in Warhammer. A lot of people bash TK, but my friend who plays them loves them, and that's what counts.

This is genuinely the best advice someone can give you.

It is fair enough to pick an army that is a true powerhouse, but there's no challenge in that. You can also pick one of the underdogs, just to be a bit different to the pack, but it's not always fun to get trounced time and time again. Then there are the armies that are really quirky, and take some getting used to, with a huge learning curve.

The only thing you can really do, is pick an army that appeals to you, that really jumps out at you, and go with it. I have 11 armies, and most of them are inherently powerful, or I field the army list that has been most tailored to Tournie use. Then, about 3 months ago, I picked up 100-odd Night Goblins, and am currently putting together a Night Goblin army... They certainly aren't gonna win me any tournaments, and they are going to be a real pain to play sometimes, but the theme, models and fun factor really appealed to me

JJ

Then, about 3 months ago, I picked up 100-odd Night Goblins, and am currently putting together a Night Goblin army... They certainly aren't gonna win me any tournaments, and they are going to be a real pain to play sometimes, but the theme, models and fun factor really appealed to me

Of course it does!

After all, painting 100 night goblins is something you do in the morning just before you are off to work.

And I think you missed a 0 when you wrote 11 armies. The correct nr should be 110 armies I would think, based on your painting speed.

Show off!

Then, about 3 months ago, I picked up 100-odd Night Goblins, and am currently putting together a Night Goblin army... They certainly aren't gonna win me any tournaments, and they are going to be a real pain to play sometimes, but the theme, models and fun factor really appealed to me

Of course it does!

After all, painting 100 night goblins is something you do in the morning just before you are off to work.

And I think you missed a 0 when you wrote 11 armies. The correct nr should be 110 armies I would think, based on your painting speed.

Show off!

Haha! Well, y'know... Such flattery...  But, I have only managed to perfect that speed-painting technique in the last few months, so the 11 other armies I have, lying around somewhere, are sadly bereft of paint (in the main part at least)...

That will be sig'd now though 

JJ

I think it really depends on what gives you the most enjoyment from the hobby.  For example, I have a TK army that I love to paint.  I love the models, the theme, the fluff.  I greatly enjoy sitting in the evening and painting the army, and it looks fantastic.  But I'm not sure I can say that I enjoy playing them.  Against a softer army, sure.  But against a tournament level army, frankly they are not much fun.  The game is over before it even begins.

Now, on the other hand, consider my ogre army.  Also fun to paint, and I like the theme, but less than TK.  But they can hold their own against any tournament army.

So, in short, I think you pick an army based on what you want to do with it.  Will you mostly be playing with the army?  Well, then the most important thing is if you like the playstyle.  Proxy 10 games and see if you do.  If you don't, go to plan b.  Or maybe you want an army to focus on modeling skills and painting...more of a glass cabinet project.  Then pick the models that appeal to you best.

Thanks for all your input guys Ive got a few ideas and have been looking really in depth at tomb kings they don't seem all that bad. 4pt models with WS5 T/S2 and unbreakable!? serious? lol (with a prince in their ranks)
just wondering why GW didn't release a hirotitan kit they have released those kits for every other army and left TK?
Just having a look about at different paint schemes etc im loving the platinum skeles over on TKoKF

Food for thought!

Chris

The rumour is that the Titan and its counterpart are done but GW is waiting for the right moment to release them.

Just like they did with the Beastmen gribblies and the Daemon Prince.

wasn't the army book released in 2011??

Yep!

That's nothing. I played Nids in 40k. They took FOREVER to get half of their new stuff. Other half still hasn't turned up.

Suppose that's a fair comparison lol

Wish GW would get their fingers out! and their models too

Chris

Hi,

I am sorry for using this thread but hits quite close to what I have currently in mind. I am a Warhammer newbie, played some WH40K and 10 games of WHFB. Right now I have a medium sized (~1500 p.) Empire army which I have chosen because of their looks and fluff. Unfortunately I lost 9 out of those 10 games and did not really like the general playstyle of the army. Shame.

Anyway, I've been looking at Ogres. They are uglier and smellier than Empire but they look more fun to paint (I am a decent painter) and with an elite-like gameplay style (smaller, tougher units). My biggest beef with them is variety and tactical possibilities though. With Empire there are loads (with different viability, sure but still) of different options when building a list.

Can any one of you veterans (I bet some of you guys field Empire as well!) answer that question? How are Ogres in terms on tactical options during a battle, list building options and 'fun factor' (I know that's subjective). How are they in comparison to Empire? My gaming group keeps telling me that Ogres = autowin, there's no strategy and no satisfaction after a victory.

I'll be super grateful, thanks!

Hey By no means am I a veteran player having only had 16 games since 4th edition (all 16 in 8th edition with my faties)
Ogres Tactics generally revolve around "Hulk Smash!" is probably the best way to describe it.
We do not have a whole lot of units, however everyone of them can be used competitively (minus the giant imo) Ogres are by no means an Auto-win army. Yes they are tough in 8th edition, but you can make competitive fun lists... like 3 Stone horns etc.(Not super competitive )
Iron blasters can be cheesy if you take more than one... But so are HPA and Hydras but that doesn't stop them being fielded, does it?
As for empire I have never played them, only against them and my mate runs a lot of 1+AS models
If your enemies are playing correctly to counter your ogres you WILL have a hard time. My most difficult games so far have been against wood elves! because the player knew what he was doing. I won 1 and drew 1.  While ogres require less finesse than say WE or TK... we do still require skill, See that 1300pt death star you just fielded on the left flank, your enemy deployed on the right and now you only have 700pts to fight his 2000pts.
We have less units and do generally get to go first, but while those units are tough unless they are built 100% they will break and run. We have LOTS of vulnerabilities Initiative to name but one. Shadow and death magic or any other magic that works off Ld or I and we will suffer greatly.
So as for your gaming group, they just need to learn to play against ogres! its different than playing against any other armies as there are so few units, but each one hits like a freight train.
They are good fun to paint and model you can make all of your Lord/Hero choices from 1 box of basic infantry mixing in bits and bobs If you don't mind painting flesh they are an awesome choice, you don't have many models and you can spend time with each and every one of them without thinking... Christ ive got another 200 to go!? where as my 2k army has about 30 models...
So to summarise -
- Are they easy to play?
Yes and no, depends on what list you put down and on how good your opponent is, they can really make it difficult for you to utilise your key components (MFC/Gutstars) by blocking charges and wasting your turns.
-Are they fun to paint/model?
hell yeah! Stick anything you want on them and make it themed! you can have pirate ogres (see Gnoblogs)!
-Should you pick an army based on what you LGC says?
No, play what you want to play. If you pick an OP army (no such thing, just cheesy lists) then so be it. Im sure there is a fair bit of whining when one of your skaven players takes slaves, or 2x hpa.
-Is an ogre army list varied?
Yes and no... every unit we have is competitive in one way or another. I ran two thundertusks the other week at 2000pts and still won (barely) But then when I took a hardcore Gutstar (our best option imo) I drew against WE... (I was a little embarrassed lol)
If you need any information on the ogres in general watch the videos section, there are plenty of Batreps (ogres generally win) but that's because a lot of people don't post the losses under Ogres vs XXX etc.
From my LGS I have seen (the only other ogre player in my area) get his a$$ handed to him several times, when he runs the same lists as me and then stomps me with a fun list
Overall I think we are a tough army to beat, but when you really look at it there are so many ways our enemies can take advantage of our lack of armour, our low Ld or I, our low number of units. It just takes a bit of cunning to beat us and it requires your opponent to play a little better than he/she normally does because we don't function like other armies and don't react the same to certain situations. Its just a learning curve for them and because they refuse to learn (several gamers I can name) the cry OP. When actually they just don't like change
 
Any more questions post back and ask away!
 
Chris

Well with the old book I would call Ogres the least tactical army of the lot with very few choices.

The new book however changed all that especially with cannons, chaff, big gribblies that actually do stuff without just killing, access to lots of magic schools (compared to one before), less cost making for larger armies (ranging from MSU, MMU and Hordes), cavalry, and numerous ways to use the army both offensively, and in some games, even defensively.

However what did it for me was the way Maneaters changed the army - you really can use these in any way possible.

I was a solid Empire player before but these days, even before the new OK book was released, it is all Ogres for me.

Thank you guys for your insight, I tossed you both an imperial Gnoblar

Your answers are frustrating actually, I was hoping to hear that Ogres are dull and boring and then would have an easy decision . Right now I am quite torn between versatility and aesthetics of the Empire and the playstyle and models (Stonehorn!) of Ogres.

Would you say that Ogres are more fun to play, for a beginner, than an Empire? Sorry for all those probably silly questions but, like I said, I am a total newbie

Don't worry! im still a noob lol... only started back a month or two ago myself.
Im still picking up bit and pieces of rules as I go
I like the ogres, you can play a really fun list and still pull out a decent win/lose ratio
Ogres have a fun and "relatively" simple play style that revolves around smashing as much face as possible
then you take magic, banners, big beasties, cannons, lead belchers, man eaters , gorgers, yhetties... and it gets more complex each do their own things, and while remaining "melee" they all do things differently! Each will bring one benefit of sorts (man eaters you can choose 2 special rules like stubborn/swiftsride - really puts some hurt on or scouting ogres!)
They are a fun army to play and so far I have loved them. I have recently started TK (as suggested near the top of the thread) and im getting my ass handed to me on a game by game basis! I love my ogres because you can keep it simple (for beginners) and then you can add lots of different mechanics that mesh.
For example... I started playing with a iron gut star with all my characters in it (whole unit pretty much had ASL) so I tried putting a thundertusk along side them (giving out its ASL bubble) and it worked pretty nicely So while it worked before, I can still add more units, make it more complex and still works nicely
If you get me... sorry im rambling on a bit. Just had a LONG day lol.
 
Chris