K'dai destroyer

Possibility i may be fighting one of these the weeend.

any suggestions on how to take it out. what  i need to look out for ( special rules etc)

i dont even know its stat line...im clueless

From what I remember, magic is the best thing against it.

damn only having a level 2 butcher in my list then

It's a beast and a half. M9, S7, T6, 6W, WS5, I5, 6+D3 attacks, flaming, terror, thunderstomp, and a 4+ ward. And any non-magical attacks have to re-roll successful to wound rolls against it. It does have one horrendously glaring weakness though...Frenzy. Just shove lone sabretusks in front of it all game. It has to overrun, which means you can send it dancing across the battlefield and away from anything useful.

Just put the dragonbane gem and a magic weapon on your bsb, charge him out of the unit and watch the thing pop, or at least hold it up forever.

Listen to this man.  He has killed a few K'dai in his day.  We call him Kdai2k around these parts....

Some sound advice there. Unfortunately lists are submitted so cant put fire wards in

i do have a tusk and a gnoblar unit i plan on tying it up half the game though. whats its leadership like? just hoping he fails and has to charge...if not will just have to think abit more lol

Pretty sure its LD 9.  Poison man eaters with bops can hurt him from a distance.

LD7 I think, but with the 4+ ward, death spells really won't hurt it enough.  It can rack up around a dozen wounds against T4, reliably. 

edit- Its LD8.  And I5.  Lore of death is pretty meager against it and its not easily frenzy baited.  Poison Pistoleaters backed up by a cannon are likely your best bet.

unfortunately my mannies have the flaming banner.they are great at taking down monsters, but not monsters with 2+ wards against fire

Sadly, they are still better than leadies for the task in question:

An 8 pack of leadies puts out 28 shots.  Lets say close range nets you 14 hits, you then wound on a roll of 6 followed by another 6.  Then the K'dai has a 4+ ward, so 8 leadies maybe put 0.2 wounds on him at close range on average?  Poison Pistoleaters numbering just six throw down two poison hits, on average, which stand and are saved on a 2+ of flaming, so they push 0.33 wounds per round at any range.  Not exactly anything to write home about, but its better than similar quantities of leadies.

A hero with a 2+ fire ward. A bsb with a regular GW will do the trick. The Destroyer will just bounce off your save and you might cause some damage in return. At the very least you will completely neutralize him for the whole game.

I fought one just this weekend.. Firebelly with his standard 4+ ward and 3 normal ogres held him up for 2 turns, then gutstar charged in. still took 2 rounds of combat to knock off enough wounds to pop it. The toughness buff and strength buff are needed to take it out. Your bigger problem will be the characters, Chaos Dwarves can field some nasty combos, watch out for standard defensive builds and death magic.

Does it still have the -1 on your to wound rolls, or did they FAQ that away?

They FAQd it to make you re-roll successful Wounds instead.

Because something with decent toughness, a 4+ ward and a 2+ fire ward really needs to make you re-roll successes to balance its survivability doesn't it........?

Sometimes I get the feelings that people writing rules try and out Mat Ward Mat Ward.

Yeah, it's a beast.

Charge a BSB with a fireward (and preferably a magic weapon too) in is good advice. Unfortunately it's a trick that will probably only work once if at all. Your opponent should be pretty wary of enemy characters with firewards and with M9, it's not likely that you can get the drop off on it.

Baiting it with Sabres is good and remember it is Frenzied so you can control over-runs - but it will still likely chew up anything that charges it without a fireward so be careful. The other issue is the CD player knows this is one weakness of the destroyer so shouldn't be leaving the destroyer where it can get baited and within Ld10 general range. With M9 and single model movement, it should be able to just move around any cats.

Shooting it with Ironblasters is tough too. The thing has a nice big base and is easy to hit, but you have that re-roll to wound to contend with (bringing the chance of wounding from 83% to 69%) and then there's the 4+ ward so the chance of wounding is only 35% per hit ... and then it has 6 wounds. Urgh. This would still be better than nothing - but you really need to use your Ironblasters to take out those damn magma cannons.

There's no easy answer. Bring firewards! You should be bringing firewards anyway, they're always worth having regardless of whether you're facing CD or not.

It is expensive as all hell from a points perspective.

Is it tough, yeah. But hardly impossible to deal with. A couple sabretusks can keep it running in circles for 3 turns and thats really all you need.

It is expensive as all hell from a points perspective.

At 325 and massively out-performing any other monster in the game, including greater daemons twice its cost, it's a bargain. It is hands-down the toughest monster on the market. The only thing that the cost prohibits is taking two at 2500.

But hardly impossible to deal with. A couple sabretusks can keep it running in circles for 3 turns and thats really all you need.

If your opponent is a moron, maybe. Otherwise sabres are going to have a hard time keeping up with it and being a single model, most of the time the CD player can simply move around, assuming frenzy doesn't catch it out (and with a Ld10 general, that again would require the CD to be stupid to allow that.) You really need to pin it on two sides to prevent it pivoting before you can realistically block it.

CD can play the chaff game much better than we can and a few hobgobs on wolves can at least make getting sabres near to the destroyer tricky. Not to mention the wide range of shooting at the fingertips of the CD can take out the sabres. Remember, the K'daai isn't under any requirement to come charging forward, but if the Ogres hang back they're going to be reduced to charred remains very quickly. The only ace we have is the Ironblaster which is hard for the CD to kill at range and can really hurt their war machines - but shooting at the K'daai is unlikely to pay off, so the K'daai can hang back with impunity.

If you think dealing with the K'daai is as simple as throwing a couple of sabres in that direction, you've either not tried it or you need to find yourself a competent CD player to play against.

The k'dai will often be ouside the general's bubble, and you can really screw with a single model with sabretusks. Exploit the 1" rule.

Sabres are also more than fast enough to catch it.

Not to mention that usually when this thing hits the table its part of the army build I call The K'Dai Cheerleader Squad, ie backed by multiple magma cannons, rockets, and at least one guy rocking that broken lore they have.  And of course you need to have your sabres close enough to the LD bubble to not flub terror, which puts you in panic range with said same LD bubble.  Finally, even if you do Frenzy bait this thing (and most CD players center table it) and get off a flank charge, you are still really likely to lose combat against it, anyhow.

All you need to know about how ridiculous this thing is is that it costs a mere 75 more than either the Stonehorn or Snow Blower and it can one round Hydras with contemptuous ease.  Also, CD players like to say "well it makes up for us having overpriced core blah blah", which is a lot like justifying double IBlaster because we have Yetis and Scraplaunchers in our list.

The k'dai will often be ouside the general's bubble,

Not until it doesn't matter in my experience (and looks like Phazael has the same experience). It'll hang out with the general until it has a juicy target to engage.

and you can really screw with a single model with sabretusks. Exploit the 1" rule. Sabres are also more than fast enough to catch it.

Both easier said than done against a competent player. Have you had success with doing this outside of theoryhammer?

And of course you need to have your sabres close enough to the LD bubble to not flub terror, which puts you in panic range with said same LD bubble.

Hmm? Firstly sabres cause Fear (very useful thing to remember when charged by a terror-causer!) and secondly they can't use the general's Ld. Unless I'm misunderstanding you?

Finally, even if you do Frenzy bait this thing (and most CD players center table it) and get off a flank charge, you are still really likely to lose combat against it, anyhow.

Yeah.  In fact, the more units you charge into the damn thing often the more you lose by. Burning body hurts ogres less than 20mm or 25mm troops but it still hurts.

@GI / Phazeal -

Have you had any experience with charging past the K'dai at other units?  I would think that if the K'dai then counter charged your unit, you would beat it through the easy combat rez you generate off your initial charge target.

-Snark

It's a really good idea and a multiple combat would be a great way to kill the thing, assuming you can generate enough combat res off the charged unit to offset the K'daai's damage, which is easier said than done depending on what you're facing as the fast CD units (bull centaurs and fireborn for example) are pretty tough. The catch is actually getting into contact with them. If you can get a combat unit across the board and into his infantry with enough bodies left to rack up combat res like that you've pretty much won anyway.

As has been said, Ogres are better off against the K'Daii then most armies (Avoiding the Thunderstomp at S7) which is helpful to begin with.  I have had some experience on both sides of this K'daii coin as I play Chaos Dwarves as well as Ogres.

As a CD player, I'm still afraid of the Cannon because the points difference is so great that if a lucky cannon shot takes him, I'm in trouble, but usually I have so many other war machines firing that it makes it tough to pick a primary target.  I'm also not too afraid of failing his LD8 Frenzy too often, on average, I won't fail and will just fly around the unit with my movement of 18".

As an Ogre I have faced them and got somewhat lucky with a I-Blaster taking some wounds off of it, but it's still tough to take the darned thing down.  I usually run a fairly strong Tyrant though, so my S7 Tyrant with a 4+ ward was able to take him alone by the end.  As was said though, the usual builds with the K'Daii means that it's not the only threat, so if you have a pre-built list you may find troubles.