Daemons of Chaos leaked pictures.

Here is a link for some leaked pictures from the March White Dwarf featuring Daemons

http://www.thefieldsofblood.com/2013/02/new-daemons-of-chaos-march-white-dwarf.html?m=1

My first reaction was not positive - bunny & happy were not two words that came to mind.

What were they thinking with them Khorne chariots????
Really do not like those models, not even sure what they are supposed to represent...

Nurgle has really become interesting with those new plague drones, really looking forward to those...

Thanks for sharing the link!!

I really don't know why people seem to dislike these models, apart from perhaps the Nurgle stuff. The Khorne chariots looks like they trundled straight of The RoC books. Spiky, baroque constructions with leering faces and snapping maws - what's not to love?

I' just hoping that there are not more retarded point denial Lord builds in the Daemons book. But I'm pretty sure DPs will be on par with what we've seen in the WoC book.

I don't really like the new models, but I'm worried about the actual rules since my best friend plays Daemons. Hopefully Kairos gets hit by the nerf bat really hard xD.

It's all just getting a bit silly. Dwarves have been sitting around without a decent update for the better part of a decade. I miss them, damn it! Daemons have had all sorts of new books and toys in recent days and most other armies have had two or so updates before the poor old beardies even get a mention. Although the new Dwarf gear from Avatars of War is pretty exciting. So much better than GW dwarf stuff...not that it has anything to do with this post. Sorry. Another rant from CromsBones for you.

Well, when you consider that the solo Daemons book hasn't been out that long and Wood Elves and Bretonnia haven't had an update for 2 whole editions of the game.....

I really don't know why people seem to dislike these models, apart from perhaps the Nurgle stuff. The Khorne chariots looks like they trundled straight of The RoC books. Spiky, baroque constructions with leering faces and snapping maws - what's not to love?

Someone on the Daemon forum called the Khorne Cannon the "Dr. Seuss Deathmobile" and I'm inclined to agree. Too me it looks like it stepped straight out of a really weird 80's/90's cartoon. I'm happy to hear that some people at least like the new models.

Drones look interesting, but the rest is super meh.

I find that flame chariot absolutely appalling, its annoying me how much GW is sculpting energy and flame into the models now.  If its not painted right which IMO the model in the photo isnt, it looks like garbage.

If you are going to give a shooting model to the Daemons, it should at least be something Tzeench related.  I am seriously tired of all the emphasis being placed on Khorne in that army, for one thing.  For another, does there really need to be another army with a cannon in the game?

People are saying the heralds are boring but I actually kinda like them. I do agree with the "WTF" when it comes to the wagons? chariots? Short Buses?

Do you think these things'll be via pamphlets in White Dwarf again, or a full on book?

If you are going to give a shooting model to the Daemons, it should at least be something Tzeench related.  I am seriously tired of all the emphasis being placed on Khorne in that army, for one thing.  For another, does there really need to be another army with a cannon in the game?

Probably.
The template will be:
canon, monstrous infantry and/or cavalry
normal infantry and/or calvalry
Big (non)-flying thingy
Flavour.

It seems more and more, that the armies are distinct by models and not by armies themselves

Most of these new models are pretty sub-par in my opinion. The Nurgle stuff looks pretty cool and the Plague Drones are offering me some nice conversion opportunities for Rot Knights with Kayzk the Befouled but the rest really looks like they just gave up half way through and thought "Meh, balls to it". Khorne with cannons seems a little odd as well. Another cnanon using army is just what we need... More cannons = less usable models. Looks like my Warsphinx or Thundertusk wont be coming out for a while lol

I strongly doubt the cannon is an ordinary cannon as opposed to, say, a flame cannon. The Tzeentch chariot once again suffers from an unflattering paintjob, but I expect it to look much better once someone gives it a more conventional colour scheme.

On a rules note, I've unashamedly lifted this from 'Seer:

Great Unclean One
 M:6 (Blurry) WS:6 BS:3 S:6 T:7 W:6 I:4 A:3 LD:9
 Can use spells from the Lore of Nurgle or Death and has poisoned attacks in addition to the Daemon of Nurgle and Terror special rules.
 
Plaguebearers: Went up by one point
 M:4 WS:3 BS:3 S:4 T:4 W:1 I:2 A:1 LD7
 Have the Daemonic Gift Plaguesword which gives poisoned attacks, in addtion to the Daemonic and the Daemon of Nurgle rules
 
Herald of Nurgle
 M:4 WS:5 BS:5 S:5 (I think, it is blurry) T:5 W:2 I:4 A:3 LD:8
 Can be a wizard and use Nurgle or Death
 Can have one of three different locusts giving the Plaguebearers either poison on 5+, extra s4 hit when hitting with poison or giving the unit regeneration. Interesting to see how this works for the other heralds
 
Bloodletters: (up by 2 points)
 Lost a point of S, but gained scaly skin 6+ and the hellblade gift (probably kb). They also have the Daemon of Khorne special rule.
 
Pink Horrors: (up 1 point)
 Same rules except that a unit is a level 1 wizard and that they have the special rule blue horrors. As everyone else they also have their Daemonic God's special rules.
 
Daemonettes: (down one point)
 Completely unchanged if Daemon of Slaanesh is AP.
 
All lesser daemons can have a banner up to 25 points.
 
Bloodcrushers: (down 5 points)
 Are now special. Juggernaughts are as in the WoC book. The riders are now ordinary bloodletters with their 6+ scaly skin save, so they probably have the same save as before.
 
Fles Hounds: (down 5 points)
 -1S. Have scaly skin (6+), Collar of Khorne. Can be Ambushers for 10% of their base cost.
 

From a purely competitive Ogre standpoint, the fact that the Daemons are being brought down to a seemingly more tame playing field is good news for the fatties. The less people there are on the top spot, the more solid our position in that 'power club' becomes.

DoC were already significantly weaker than Ogres, though.  Those statlines at those costs mean everyone who was spamming Bloodletters will now be running Daemonettes instead (which I was already doing, personally) and Plaguebearers (again, I have been doing this for two years).  Flesh Hounds went from bad to worse.  If the Pappa Nurgle statline is any indication, then the GD are going to be pretty unplayable unless they get a massive point cost reduction.  If GW turns this army into another generic monsters and war machine parade like they did with Empire and WoC I will be seriously irritated.

Waiting on the book to make my final judgement on it.

I agree with Lexy. When the mournfangs popped up it was really exciting because they were big mounts for big ogres and seemed fittingly unique for the ogre army. Now we're getting demigryphs and all sorts, as well as the compulsory big dual-build kit. Neither of which is a real problem, it just makes all of the armies less unique and all dangerous in the exact same ways. next it'll probably be high elves riding big white lions or dwarves riding mechanical cows or something.

Having poured over  the new WD today, my opinion of some of the models has changed slightly. I find the Plague Drones and the Exalted Chariot of Tzeentch to be quite appealing although the Khorne minis still leave me feeling cold. As the the Heralds at £15 (oe) a pop, I would rather buy a box of each and convert models using my bits box.

In regards to the stat changes I think daemons will rely more than ever on hexes/buffs to win combat. Like Phazael (and I am really not trying to kiss a*** because this is the second time I have found myself echoing similar sentiments) but as I run a mono Nurgle army I hope I will be less affected by the changes than those that relied on the Bloodletter horde. I just hope that the Plague Drones are worth it (and fortunately GW do have a habit of under costing point wise brand new units) and Beast of Nurgle take a massive point drop. Again next week will tell all!

I grabbed the WD today and the Plague Drone on the cover looks about a million times better than the grainy Internet pic we've all seen. I'll probably be grabbing the Codex, after all I'm in the process of getting a Nagarythe themed High Elves list done and Slaaneshi stuff would fit into it nicely for a Daemonic pact in Storms of Magic games.

If you are going to give a shooting model to the Daemons, it should at least be something Tzeench related.  I am seriously tired of all the emphasis being placed on Khorne in that army, for one thing.  For another, does there really need to be another army with a cannon in the game?

I agree 100%. If wood elves end up with canons, then... I don't know what to say. WTF.

Also, that "burning chariot" looks like it's riding a bed of coral, not fire. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Except the Khorne cannon is an old concept and hardly new.

Models aren't something that I would say inspire someone to buy a new army that's for sure.  Basically most things have already been said, although I don't think the Herald models are that bad.  Chariots / Cannons are lame looking.  Where is the big monster?  No updates for the Great Daemon models?  The stupid dog-monster, oh sorry, the Bloodthirster is in my opinion a horrible model and it gets no change.  Really poor showing to be honest.

GW seems to be going back to some of the original design concepts they had for stuff way back when.

The issue is that they are using their new sculpting techniques, which reduces the charm of some of the stuff.

Models aren't something that I would say inspire someone to buy a new army that's for sure. 

I won't start into an army if I don't have some interesting converting, painting and fluff ideas to go off of. I figure if I like something, I can make it work in game.

I totally agree with you on the Bloodthirster though. I think the Great Unclean One and Keeper of Secrets could use an update sure, but the Bloodthirster is showing its age in its design and I'm not a fan.

I'm often inspired by new models (2000 points of Deathwing sitting on my painting station) but this seems like an unusually unappealing release to me; I do really like the plague drones, though not particularly liking the current plague bearers, that's not enough to make me start an army . . . need to find a counts-as option I like - mournfangs, maybe? ;p

However, even if the "Great motorcycle of Khorne"had a large red I WIN button on it, I wouldn't buy it - intricately crafted, sure, but looks bizarre. The Dr. Zeuss gun (as I've heard it called elsewhere) option is worse, and the "flaming" chariot? Shame, I quite liked the new flamers when they came out.

Maybe it's because daemons don't appeal to me much; but then I run WoC, and not much from the new releases there has grabbed me; some conversion possibilities with the dragon ogres perhaps. Seems to me the fantasy releases generally are being dominated by big, showy centrepieces (and don't get me wrong, I love my thundertusks/stonehorns), but the latest ones have just not been that attractive to me.

Anyway, here's hoping for plastic poseable wardancers next time around, but I expect we'll get the Mighty Walking Oak of Doom. Maybe it won't be so bad; maybe it'll have elves in it.

I am a dedicated khorne player and I'v been bancrupted recently ( new scyla, valkia, skullcrushers, WoC army book ect) and now a codex and an army book for daemons.

But.. the only new daemon miniatures I like are the nurgle fly riders ( I also liked the plastic plauge bearers)

the khorne chariot/ motorbike is AWFUL
the Khorne herald is ok but I still do not like the flimsy finecast models ( valkia was pretty awful for this) and he is nothing special
the slanesh heral is just plain UGLY
Where is a multipart plastic Bloodthirster / any greater deamons??

I wish GW would just ditch the current style things are leaning towards and hand sculp some less flashy for the sake of it models that are worth the current prices! PUT SOME SOUL BACK IN.

After seeing the models in White Dwarf I think they are generally great. I do prefered the 6th edition horrors over the current ones (which are closer to the originals models).

I do understand where some of the criticism is coming from, there is definitely more daemon models that have a more futuristic look that seems to be at odds with the vision many have of the warhammer setting. I'm not against this futuristic look but I'd not personally be rushing to add a Soulgrinder my army. I certainly wouldn't mind taking one on on the tabletop though - that would be cool!

Rules for the cannon chariot have been floating around (though I'd request people not directly post or link to them). For apparently not much more than an Empire Great Cannon, you get a move-and-shoot platform that's pretty close to ours in terms of offensive output and durability (two Bloodletters as opposed to an Ogre, Gnob and Rhinox and trading a wound for a ward save and better armour save) whilst trading re-rollable bounce for an extra 12 inches and flaming attacks. We can but hope that the few special rules that haven't been clarified for it bring a suitable downside as some people believe Ironblasters to be bad enough already.

Totally didn't post this in the WoC topic initially...

And rumours have it it is cheaper than a IB as well (20% cheaper IIRC).

Let the whine begin!

(yeah I am following you Eg)

Yeah, the Segway of Khorne is LUDICROUSLY undercosted. Mind you, at least people will have less cause to complain about Ironblasters now. It could certainly be worse 

Now that we know it also regains wounds when it causes impact hits, I'm beginning to think/hope that someone misread the cost and that it actually works out a bit more expensive than an IB.

I'll know next week when my Limited Edition Slaanesh version arrives at my house..... yes it's ridiculously expensive but for some reason I felt like being pounded by GW.

I really don't know why people seem to dislike these models, apart from perhaps the Nurgle stuff. The Khorne chariots looks like they trundled straight of The RoC books. Spiky, baroque constructions with leering faces and snapping maws - what's not to love?

Sorry Eg, but I think that there is a great deal not to love. At least, about the Khorne models. I find them to be totally at odds with the old world feel of the Warhammer game. Maybe a little more at home in the 40k universe.

I like the Nurgle stuff; even the big flys, which I initially hated. Will reserve full judgement on the range, until I see them in store, on release day.

JJ

The chariots are every thing i loathe about GW's current modelling direction, overblown confused and 'junky'. The heralds look great the chariots look like a selection of Mardi Gras floats.

I'll know next week when my Limited Edition Slaanesh version arrives at my house..... yes it's ridiculously expensive but for some reason I felt like being pounded in the ass by GW.

Heh, you're not alone, I got that too. It's one of those things I indulge in the extravagance because I'll just regret it every time I play otherwise...

That daemon cannon is an absolute beast but at least people won't bitch so much about ironblasters anymore. I think failings in the rest of the list will keep it from being too powerful but I expect it to be a 2+ unit.

The chariots are every thing i loathe about GW's current modelling direction, overblown confused and 'junky'.

My sentiments exactly... I really loathe the Khorne cannon, in particular. It looks confused (and not in the Chaos way), and really out of place. It seems a little disparate to the existing range, and fairly soulless.

I am fairly disappointed in the new releases, on the whole, but am eager to see the Army Book. I can't wait to see how the balance is. I am suspecting a horrendous nerf, but only time will tell

JJ

Just finished reading the book.

Besides the cannon, this is another balanced 8th ed. Army book even if there are a lot of random stuff happening.

In fact, it may be so random that greenskin players will be jealous.

How balanced is the cannon?

Scroll up and read my post again to find out.

Scroll up and read my post again to find out.

I was hoping for a bit more detail than "other than the cannon"... Hence my question

JJ

Except you wrote "how balanced" - it is the most broken unit in the game.

For 20% less cost of the Ironblaster you get 3+ AS, 5+ Ward, T5, 4W, 1d6+1 impact hits, 5 high strength attacks, flaming & magical attacks, a 48 inch range cannon, and for each impact unsaved wound it makes it regain a wound on a 4+.

Fortunately - the rest is pretty balanced (from my read anyway) so it will not crush opponents by just showing up.

It is in line with the rest of the 8th ed. books though if you dislike random this army is not for you.

Edit: some stuff contradict itself like all daemons have magical attacks and yet hellblades are magical (and have killing blow) - and cannon may move and fire but not march - since when do chariots march? Other than that I quite like this book and it feels considerably less stale than the first book.

Don't forget that it gets to move and shoot like the Ironblaster.  But as was stated the rest of the book seems to be pretty good.  Wonky and random which makes it hard to break the army.

I like that your generals and heroes aren't going to always get what they want.  Asside from magical weapons everything is pretty random and you can't select magical items seperately from the main rulebook.  Also means you won't see scrolls from them.. or am I missing something?

I really like the book though overall.  Lots of points reductions for units but they also lost some skill.  Heralds don't automatically buff your units anymore, and to make them do so costs some heavy points.  One thing that will somewhat stink for us is that with the random-ness it doesn't stop being able to default to a magical weapon, and since that will be done at the start of a game, it's easy to pick the multi-wound weapons against us when the game starts.  A way to buff the fact their monsters won't be stomping.

I have to say the random stuff is not as game changing as I originally thought.

The equipment in particular can be nasty as hell on greater daemons - with right.

Makes me think if 40K is the game I want a Daemon force...