The new guy to beat? Nurgle Chaos Lord

Not necessarily the toughest out there, but after looking at the WoC book, I'm having a hard time thinking of anyone nastier for such a economic price.

Chaos Lord with Mark of Nurgle, Fencer's Blades, Glittering Scales, Soul Feeder.  300 points total for a 6 S5 attacks that is hit ONLY on a 6 by everything in the game.

Yes, the lords can be much worse, but this guy allows a WoC player to still take a level 4 with a dispel scroll (something which is hard to do with the new book), and can stand up to anyone in the game one-on-one, with a good chance of healing himself every round.

Honestly, WoC characters with MoN are terrifying to WS3 armies

I am working on a Daemon Prince ATM which I plan on fielding with Mark of Nurgle, Wings, Chaos armor, Charmed shield, Sword of Striking, Scaled Skin, Poisonous Slime, and Soul Feeder.

Are we going back to the days of Herohammer??? It seems that a VC and now WoC are now able to put characters on the table that are able to stand toe to toe with ELITE units all by themselves... I'm not sure what to think of that trend. I've never played the unkillable Dreadlord but it never seemed fun to face. I played a couple of time against Kairos and no game against him was fun. What kind of impact are these new combat monsters having on the game? More importantly, how do you deal with this as an Ogre player?

Cannon balls to the face still work pretty well. To be honest I would just put every attack i had on the unit and go for the break. I know rank and file of elite is not easy to move but its easier then doing anything to a hitting on 6's wounding on "whatever" with armor saves out the ass. And yea this troops will be nurgle to but hey , hittin on 5's is better then 6's.  O and btw, Chaos lord that you described, we hit on 7's. WS8 vs our 3 means 5's, -1 for Glittering 6's, -1 for Nurgle makes 7's. OH JOY! I still have faith in our supremacy tho

close combat never gets worse than a 6 to hit, so there's that at least. 

The problem with pumping our attacks into rank and file is that the above-mentioned mofo is probably going to be in a brick of warriors who ALSO have the Mark of Nurgle.  18 attacks against a unit with shields does a single unsaved wound, by the math (1.24, actually).  The 12 attacks back (assuming 5 wide and with the lord up front, and discounting his damage) does 2.75 back.

I'd recommend trying to ty him up in a challenge, but I don't see many folks that can hold him up for long.

Careful with 'tying him up in a challenge'.

Now WoC gets EoTG rolls from unit champions, characters, and monsters! If there is a Warshrine present, you just might regret that decision!

Yeah, you wouldn't want that Lord to suddenly turn into a Daemon Prince that(if I am not mistaken) keeps all his nasty gear.

Yeah he keeps all of his gear! Wouldn't that be somethin lol.

Even if you dont get a 12, he can still get a Toughness, an Attack, a Strength, etc.

With a warshrine in 12 inches, he'll have 3 choices to pick from (unless he rolls doubles, then just 2 choices).

But yeah the Nurgle Lord is the new bad boy on the block. I mean a 3+ Wardsave Tzeentch Lord with re rolling 1s is tough but a Lord you can only hit on 6s? Goodluck

Chaos Lords had it coming imo though.. No one took Chaos Lords before because they weren't powerful enough to justify their cost. Theyre still not as efficient as a VC Lord who is a Wizard and a Close Combat Blender. (Of coursea Chaos Lord is less points than a VC lord but not combined with a Level 4 for games under low max point levels who can't fit under 25%)

I always took a Lord with 2+ armor and 3+ ward last book. And on foot no less

Honestly I would prefer the Vampire Counts well over the Chaos Lord just because if the vampire account dies most the army goes with it

I don't mind uber characters in the WoC book. After all they are supposed to be the epitome of martial prowess.

They can't have more than 25 points worth of gear they are WS 9 so fencers would be kind of overkill anyway, they are I8 which is insane.. They are stubborn and a monsters so they have a S6 thunderstomp (bad news for non-MI armies).. They are beasts...! They can have 100 points worth of gifts though, and the gifts are good! AND it is not unstable...
The sould feeder skill is cheap, and grants him the ability to regain wounds on a six, like hunger for VC but unlike the hunger he gets to reroll on all wounds..
They have access to scaled skin and Chaos armour.. As cannons would be able to kill it and LOS is not going to happen, charmed shield will be an almost auto-include, they can get into combat quick with fly.. It will be hard to deal with although we (ogres) will have a better chance since the S6 thunderstomp isn't a problem..!

Having their lords turn into DP's isn't that good, the model is removed and as of now rewards victory points (and +100 if he's the general) so he will have to earn back quite a few points to be worth it.. Having a unit champion turn on the other hand will be very good.!

The Tzeench Daemonic Steed lord is, frankly, a lot more terrifying:
MoTz, Stubborn Crown, Talisman of Preservation, Daemonic Steed (or Disk), GW, Scaley Skin, Dragon Helm, Third Eye, and maybe Soulstealer.
Dude rocks a 3++ (2++ vs flaming) rerolling ones, if you even get past his 1+ armor.  He dumps 5 S7 attacks and 2 S5 magical attacks + Stomp a turn, and he is movement 8 Swiftstride while being stubborn.

The Nurgle guy is a bargain who lets you have a naked scroll lord, but with a beatstick like this guy, you don't even need a damn mage in your army.  I am having a hard time comming up with a character build that can even think about hanging in there against this guy, let alone actually killing him.  He frankly makes the DE Cockblocker Peg Lord tame, in comparisson.

PS- A general turning into a DP does not give the 100 points because the status of being general transfers over to him.  They actually have to kill the new model if they want that extra 100 points.  This is also true if it happens to your BSB.  They do get the other points, but thats in exchange for the chaos guy getting all the gear and gifts on a DP statline with a fresh set of wounds, so if it happens early in the game its probably not bad for the chaos guy.  If it happens late, then its bad.

The Tzeench Daemonic Steed lord is, frankly, a lot more terrifying:

I would agree with this. I am a big fan of Nurgle, both daemon and WoC, but the Nurgle lord, despite being awesome in combat still only has at max a 4+ ward save (before EotG roles, but he has to get into combat first). This leaves him more open to spell sniping. Spirit leech, Fate of Bjuna and the other one which I cannot remember at the moment are all spells we (and lots of other races) have easy access to. With the Tzeentch lord he gets his 3+ ward save and re-rolls 1's, and unlike the DE pendant lord, its irrespective of strength so spells like Bonecruncher the Banshee/Terrogheist scream from VC have no advantage over other similar spells or abilities.

Yeah, although the nurgle lord is a decent runner up to the Tzeentch guy. He only gets hit on 6s in combat, even by WS10. While also having a decent armor and ward save.

So basically, we need to try to kill the rest of the WoC army before one of rhe unkillable Lord kills our whole army?
Good WoC generals are going to take a serious advantage out of those builds. If we try to kill it with shooting, the rest of his army is gonna make it to ours untouched and that really can't be good. I really feel lile we aren't very equipped to deal with these biilds unless I'm missing something.

i could be wrong, but i cant see how this guy will beat an army. he is very durable but still only S5. lets say a max of 6 wounds done. 4 iron guts should hurt him. T4 or T5? whats his armour? 6+? even with a 4+ ward save i see it something like this:

He does 4 hits = 3 wounds. we hit back with 12 attacks. 2 hit and 2 should wound. 1 fails 4+ ward save. ogres have 1 rank, std +1 wound done. equal and guts have a muso. ld8 stubborn. with a bsb rroll nearby (hopefully). grind him down over 3 turns Ok you lose about 1 gut a turn but thats 130ish points vs 300.

The issue is the troops he's hiding in are also going to go to town on us before we swing. Unless we have the Stubborn cown we are in trouble.

I simply do not see the lord in CC as a big threat compared to the earlier chosenstars and 1/2 point GW Khorne Marauders (I am exaggerating about the point cost...).

i could be wrong, but i cant see how this guy will beat an army. he is very durable but still only S5. lets say a max of 6 wounds done. 4 iron guts should hurt him. T4 or T5? whats his armour? 6+? even with a 4+ ward save i see it something like this:

He does 4 hits = 3 wounds. we hit back with 12 attacks. 2 hit and 2 should wound. 1 fails 4+ ward save. ogres have 1 rank, std +1 wound done. equal and guts have a muso. ld8 stubborn. with a bsb rroll nearby (hopefully). grind him down over 3 turns Ok you lose about 1 gut a turn but thats 130ish points vs 300.   

 
The problem with your equation is that he's not operating in a vacuum, like Phazael's tzneetch horsey lord.  This guy is meant to provide solid leadership, while still allowing full magic support, while still being stupidly survivable at a low price.

Let's ignore magic, and say he's in a normal 5 wide unit of warriors, and positioned such that you can get 12 irongut attacks into him (unlikely, but sure; why not).  By the math, they cause 1.3 wounds, while he causes 2.6.  The remaining 6 irongut attacks cause 1.14 wounds against standard sword-and-board Warriors with the mark of nurgle.  The Warriors have another 14 attacks, and cause 3.85 wounds.  So, you lose 2 complete 'guts before you swing, and then lose another 2 complete guts before you get to swing again (and by this time it's almost certain that the Lord has regained a wound, so he's only down by 1).  So, unless your unit is more than 3 ranks, you start to lose combat potential.  Since 9 guts with command are over 400 points (more than 20 warriors, BTW), the WoC player is clearly ahead, and should vaporize the unit before you manage to kill the lord (assuming you manage to pass your leadership tests since you lost every round of combat).

"But they won because you included a character in the combat," you say, to which I reply "Yes, but if YOU include a character, he is either going to be a.) not fighting since you refused the challenge, or b.) tied up and quickly killed by the Chaos Lord, while the Nurgle warriors slaughter your guts around him.

I'm curious how "bad" it will really pan out in the metagame. Those chaos-lords are nasty, but expensive, meaning an even lower model-count in a low-model-count army. For us ogres, he is really a problem. But I'm less sure how well he fares against power-builds like the light-council, high-elf shooting lists, death-sniper spam, and the likes. My bet is that in all-comers lists, he wont perform as well, which might make him disappear from tournies rather quickly.

To me it is the same old DE is impossible to beat lament - and yet they do not go winning 100% at any place.

Well the main issue here is that unlike the PoK dreadlord they can be "impossable" to kill while also having good damage output.

Is it possible to make a Tyrant to ''tank'' that guy as long as possible in a challenge??? If he's not generating CR and we can somehow buff our troops or dish enough CR ourselves to keep them tied up, it would allow the rest of our army to deal enough dmg to get a win or a draw?

Any ideas? I'm pretty sure The Other Trickster Shard will be part of the build but what do we get besides that???  Greedy Fist a good idea??

HE are probably one of the best equipped army to deal with this guy. Ring of Corin + Vaul's Unmaking = no more magic items. They can also make some princes to tank him for some time.

Glittering Fencer build with the OTS tucked, perhaps, would hold out the longest, since the guy needs to bowl 5s to hit you, but you are still not likely to kill him before he kills you.  And the issue with this guy is that he can actually win against most T4 units out there and has a vastly boosted statline over the PoK Peg guy, though he costs a good chunk more, as well.  In the magic phase, you basically cannot take him out unless he bowls a 6 against something like Dwellers or Pit.  Debuffing him is pretty meaningless, because he can just wait it out with his stubborn 3++ reroll 1 ward save.  Having seen this bastard in action as well as the Nurgle DP, the Tz Lord is hands down worse.

Now, you can out tar pit the tar pitter, but its tricky to pull off because of his movement speed (which is even more true of the Nurgle guy) and in a cannon free environment the DP is probably superior, though I would still be reluctant to make him my wizard as well.  Let me just say that the Tzeench horse guy and three chimies whizzing around the table makes for a rough day at the office....

Interesting... How would.you deal with a WoC list sporting either character?

i'd actually go with Mawseeker, Trickster's Helm, and Fencer's Blades. He only hits on 4s, wounds on 5s and must reroll.

This means it would take the chaos lord 18 attacks to push a wound on the Tyrant.

i'd actually go with Mawseeker, Trickster's Helm, and Fencer's Blades. He only hits on 4s, wounds on 5s and must reroll.

This means it would take the chaos lord 18 attacks to push a wound on the Tyrant.

How do you afford all three? They cost 125 points you're only allowed a 100 on a tyrant...

Not to mention the Tzeench Build I posted rocks a Great Weapon, so he is actually wounding on 3s (reroll successful), even if you had dwarf gear allowances.  Granted, with the steed in the mix, that cuts the wounding down to two per round on average, so it would take him three combat rounds to chew through him.

As for how you deal with something like this build, counter tarpit is the only solution that I think is viable and indead the only success I had this weekend against it.  Unless the person across from you is a moron, though, you have to sacrifice something to put the guy in a position to be tar pitted.  In my case, I basically put my Ironblaster out there and tar pitted him with a 5x5 gnoblar unit with FC.  By the time he had chewed past the gnobies, the game was essentially over.  My opponent was pretty clear that he would not be repeating that mistake again.  Daemons have Siren Song, but I think that power is going away in the next book and a good player can avoid losing to that ability.

Right, I wasn't thinking about point cost. my bad. brain fart.

All things considered, there isn't a great way to counter these Lords for us besides avoidance.

I'd rather have this guy than a Nurgle Lord.... My newest addition to my Army List -

    Monster Hunter - 395pts

    Chaos Lord
    MoT
    Disc
    Enchanted Shield
    Hellfire Sword
    Poisonous Slime
    Soul Feeder
    Third Eye of Tzeentch
    Talisman of Endurance

    1+ Armour Save, 4+ Ward (rerolls 1s).. Can fly so it can hunt down anything that moves. His attacks are flaming and magical (strips regen and ethereal), poison for those high T beasties (sphinxes), and his sword will do D3 wounds ignoring armour saves.

    On top of that, if someone manages to damage him he heals 1 wound on a roll of a 6 off of his wounds. Each slain foe explodes on a roll of a 6 doing D6 S4 hits to the unit!

    Thats right Mr Abomination, he's coming for you.

Poison doesn't effect attacks made with magic weapons.

Yeah just saw that bit.

Oh well, its still a good build minus the poison

Maybe upgrade to the Talisman of Preservation.

Maybe upgrade to the Talisman of Preservation.

Hellfire Sword is too many points for that item to fit

But I swapped out Poison for Flaming Breath!

Until you get into a challenge against someone with a 2+ ward against flamming attacks

We'll hes suppose to hunt monsters and warmachines.

I'm not risking a 400 point model just to prove that my warhammer @#$! is bigger than my opponents! My Lord will be flying around choosing his battles.. Picking off stuff other than expensive challenge monkys

I may however drop the Hellfire sword for a 3+ re rolling 1s... So many choices...

i could be wrong, but i cant see how this guy will beat an army. he is very durable but still only S5. lets say a max of 6 wounds done. 4 iron guts should hurt him. T4 or T5? whats his armour? 6+? even with a 4+ ward save i see it something like this:

He does 4 hits = 3 wounds. we hit back with 12 attacks. 2 hit and 2 should wound. 1 fails 4+ ward save. ogres have 1 rank, std +1 wound done. equal and guts have a muso. ld8 stubborn. with a bsb rroll nearby (hopefully). grind him down over 3 turns Ok you lose about 1 gut a turn but thats 130ish points vs 300.   

 
The problem with your equation is that he's not operating in a vacuum, like Phazael's tzneetch horsey lord.  This guy is meant to provide solid leadership, while still allowing full magic support, while still being stupidly survivable at a low price.

Let's ignore magic, and say he's in a normal 5 wide unit of warriors, and positioned such that you can get 12 irongut attacks into him (unlikely, but sure; why not).  By the math, they cause 1.3 wounds, while he causes 2.6.  The remaining 6 irongut attacks cause 1.14 wounds against standard sword-and-board Warriors with the mark of nurgle.  The Warriors have another 14 attacks, and cause 3.85 wounds.  So, you lose 2 complete 'guts before you swing, and then lose another 2 complete guts before you get to swing again (and by this time it's almost certain that the Lord has regained a wound, so he's only down by 1).  So, unless your unit is more than 3 ranks, you start to lose combat potential.  Since 9 guts with command are over 400 points (more than 20 warriors, BTW), the WoC player is clearly ahead, and should vaporize the unit before you manage to kill the lord (assuming you manage to pass your leadership tests since you lost every round of combat).

"But they won because you included a character in the combat," you say, to which I reply "Yes, but if YOU include a character, he is either going to be a.) not fighting since you refused the challenge, or b.) tied up and quickly killed by the Chaos Lord, while the Nurgle warriors slaughter your guts around him.

i hope he is in a unit as then the key is ignore the Dude and dismantle the unit. we have impact hits, we have stomp. They need to remove 3 wounds to reduce 3 attacks. the same points of guts or bulls should grind out WoC. Having said that, i have never faced the new book so am not really qualified to speak...

I'd rather have this guy than a Nurgle Lord.... My newest addition to my Army List -

    Monster Hunter - 395pts

    Chaos Lord
    MoT
    Disc
    Enchanted Shield
    Hellfire Sword
    Poisonous Slime
    Soul Feeder
    Third Eye of Tzeentch
    Talisman of Endurance

    1+ Armour Save, 4+ Ward (rerolls 1s).. Can fly so it can hunt down anything that moves. His attacks are flaming and magical (strips regen and ethereal), poison for those high T beasties (sphinxes), and his sword will do D3 wounds ignoring armour saves.

    On top of that, if someone manages to damage him he heals 1 wound on a roll of a 6 off of his wounds. Each slain foe explodes on a roll of a 6 doing D6 S4 hits to the unit!

    Thats right Mr Abomination, he's coming for you.

all those magic items...thank god for iron blasters...maybe get in 2 rounds of shooting if lucky. iron blaster cannons...is there anything they cant do?!

Id say the Iron blaster is a really good threat for these.

I made a nurgle daemon prince build which welcomes most things...challenege monkey's if need be, units on his own, monsters for sure.

I do not fancy having a cannon ball to his face let alone one from an iron blaster

I have a game of my Ogres vs Beastmen this weekend (a rematch after i killed every single model of his )

but am tempted to get a Chaos game in to see how good the nurgle demon prince actually is

The Tzeench Horse lord effectively has a nearly mathematical equivalent to a 2+ ward against cannons, though.  Plus he is rocking a 1+ AS and 2++ rerollable against fire, so small arms and metal spells are not getting it done, either.  Containment is the only real option ogres have against this guy.

Quick question just to check, but that Tzeentch Horse Lord... isn't it entirely possible to have a Sorc Lord with a near-identical setup? It'd be less killy, but it you needed a lvl 4 mostly for dispelling purposes he wouldn't be a particularly bad choice.

The sorcerer lord has the same points allowance as the lord, so yes could have the same load out. I think I would try running him with the Crown of Command if I took the sorcerer. The only downsides would be 1 less leadership and lore of Tzeentch -, I can see most people running with Metal (which is massively underrated in my opinion any way). And Standard of Discipline on the unit will negate the ld issue somewhat.

I was considering Metal to be honest - it's only really now people will be looking at it thanks to Tzeentch's lore sucking. It's particularly useful for Chaos Warriors too, buffing armour whilst crippling enemy armour and WS.


As for Leadership issues, I've just noticed something - if the Chaos Player runs Trolls or Ogres, Scyla Anfingrimm can be deployed with them* (can't find a rule stating otherwise). Now that he's M6, his ld 10 would really help as a general, he relatively combat efficient, doesn't have Eye of the Gods so doesn't have to issue challenges, and is absurdly cheap for what he brings.

Only downside is he's easily killed with shooting, but he's fairly fast, and if you lose him his cheapness makes it easier to bear.


*Well, could put him with warriors, but since he's easily sniped you might want him in a unit with similar movement to get him in the safety of CC quickly.

As for Leadership issues, I've just noticed something - if the Chaos Player runs Trolls or Ogres, Scyla Anfingrimm can be deployed with them* (can't find a rule stating otherwise). Now that he's M6, his ld 10 would really help as a general, he relatively combat efficient, doesn't have Eye of the Gods so doesn't have to issue challenges, and is absurdly cheap for what he brings. Only downside is he's easily killed with shooting, but he's fairly fast, and if you lose him his cheapness makes it easier to bear.

This is an interesting idea - ordinary shooting is not much of a threat to be honest, the problem is that he can't get Look out sir! rolls for cannon shots, etc.
However, in thinking about your idea, something odd occurs to me; just as you can't find a rule stating that he can't lead units, I can't find a rule stating that he can't be general - in which case any WoC army that takes Scyla without taking either Archaon or Sigvald would have to have Scyla as general?! Less attractive suddenly...


Also, unless I read it wrong, although Daemon Princes look fun with more options, it appears that because they are now "Daemons of XXX" they no longer have "Mark of XXX" . . . which means my Tzeentch DP only has a 5++ save? (He can reroll "1"s, but that doesn't help so much with 5++). Compared to the scary survivability of a Tzeentch lord (potential 3++ rerolling 1s) this doesn't look so attractive, even if he is an offensive (in both senses) flying combat beast. Are all DPs now likely to be Nurgle Daemons with Glittering Scales and flying into combat to avoid cannon-shot?

Chaos Armour and an enchanted shield are an option for DPs now, of course, although that won't help much with the cannon-shot; and that's a lot of work for WYSIWYG on my current DP!

The Scylla thing is an oversight that will be corrected in the first FAQ, because as of right now you can slap him in a unit and create all sorts of rules conundrums with his compulsory movement vs ground movement rules.

Yes, I don't think any of it is intentional. He needs something similar to the "Loner" rule as per our hunters, and I imagine that will be errata'd quickly.

The Scylla thing is an oversight that will be corrected in the first FAQ, because as of right now you can slap him in a unit and create all sorts of rules conundrums with his compulsory movement vs ground movement rules.

What rules conundrums?  Scylla doesn't have compulsory movement anymore, he's just movement 6.  Personally I think his rules are very intentional.  Suddenly he's no longer a worthless special character, and he helps make monstrous armies more viable since Throgg lost his BSB ability (which also happen to be more expensive armies to build, hence why I think this is deliberate).  As for sniping him, Dragon Ogres are also Monstrous Beasts, and buying enough of them for a LoS roll isn't beyond reason.

Personally I think his rules are very intentional.  Suddenly he's no longer a worthless special character, and he helps make monstrous armies more viable since Throgg lost his BSB ability (which also happen to be more expensive armies to build, hence why I think this is deliberate).  As for sniping him, Dragon Ogres are also Monstrous Beasts, and buying enough of them for a LoS roll isn't beyond reason.

But as things stand, he would have to be your general (unless Archaon/Sigvald, which you would be unlikely to use in a monstrous horde), which is the bit which I think is particularly unintentional, and if it stays, is going to see him not used.

Putting him with Dragon Ogres is an interesting option, but he won't fit the footprint, so you couldn't run them very wide; and to run enough for a reliable LOS, you're going to have a lot of points invested in rear ranks, and even second rank attacks will be largely wasted. MB aren't MI after all.

Yeah I'll be staying away from a 6+ wardsave General that is freakishly tall....

But as things stand, he would have to be your general (unless Archaon/Sigvald, which you would be unlikely to use in a monstrous horde), which is the bit which I think is particularly unintentional, and if it stays, is going to see him not used.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how a cheap-as-hell, leadership 10 general who imparts hatred and MR3 is a bad thing in a monstrous horde army. 

Take him in a 300 point, 6 dragon ogre unit, run 3 wide (go ahead and add 60 points for halberds and a champion, or 30 points for a champ and extra weapons), and you have a extremely nasty monstrous unit.  You lose an inch of movement, but suddenly your 18 WS4, S5 (or 6) attacks reroll to hit.

In a monstrous horde army, this is an outstanding unit, and can even contribute to a regular WoC army.

He does not give Hatred to the whole unit.... Only he himself gets hatred.

He'll die pretty damn easy with whatever unit he is in combat with.. You could put him in the second row but then you're neutering his attack count.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how a cheap-as-hell, leadership 10 general who imparts hatred and MR3 is a bad thing in a monstrous horde army. 

Leadership 10 is fantastic on a general, I don't disagree, and much needed in monstrous horde armies . . . but Scyla just doesn't have the survivability for a model that important, so he isn't going to be around long enough to impart that great leadership, and of course when he dies your army is in that bit worse trouble. I think it's just a gift to your opponent, to be honest; but by all means try it, I'd love to hear success stories .

If you are going to use him, it would probably be best to stuff him in a bunker unit behind the main force and just rely on his LD until you need a late game coup de grace from his unit.  Thats a lot of points sitting idle for most of the game, but it also means having some punch to get you over the hump while leaning on LD10 the entire time.  All that said, I seriously doubt that he will remain as he presently is because I think its a stretch to think that a spawm hero was ever intended to be the best LD the army has to offer.

I dunno. Though his fluff states he no longer leads his tribe due to spawndom, but I can imagine some Khornate guys following him around due to the fact he quite happily will charge at a dragon without concern.

I reckon he'd just be best in low point games. Exalted heroes always felt squishy to me - though that's probably because, as my signature states, 2 wound heroes just aren't right....

Huh. I was about to say Scyla can't join units because he's Unbreakable but now that I look at it again, you can't join non-unbreakable characters to unbreakable units but there's no prohibition the other way around.

Yes, I'm seeing this guy pop up as a cheap general. There are a lot of advantages to a chaos player to have a good Ld general come out of hero points. It leaves you free to spurge your Lord points on a daemon prince or sorcerer lord.

besides, are you really gonna waste a cannonball at poor old Scylla when you have Daemon Princes, Chimeras, and Gore-Chariots charging at you?

I fully expect Scyla to have a "may not be the army general" clause added in the first errata though. Hope they do the WoC FAQ justice, there's a lot that needs answering.

besides, are you really gonna waste a cannonball at poor old Scylla when you have Daemon Princes, Chimeras, and Gore-Chariots charging at you?

If he's the general, yes absolutely.

hmmm, sounds like bait for a trap...

Scyla has the highest leadership in the book bar Archaon and another character, given the rules as they currently are would not Scyla have to be general if he indeed had the highest leadership in the army? Given this I would agree that for games of 1000pts it less he would make a good general - but I think Exalted hero on Juggernaut would also have 3 wounds making him less squishy! Otherwise it might be a good idea to leave him at home.

Holding it out against him?
Lizardmen with life.
throne of vines and flesh to stone on a scar vet on cold one with glittering scales and stuff?
He doesn't do any wounds (hopefully).
You don't either, but hey...

To be honest that tzeentch lord is only stoppable if you are planning more then half of your army around him.
That is already a win in a WoC book.
That or an insane amount of luck

Simply being able to take one entire combat unit out of the game is very powerful.  Its the main reason the DE Peg Lord Cockblocker is so maligned and that chaffe in general is so strong in 8th edition.  This guy just happens to also be able to do significant damage and bypasses a couple of weaknesses of the DE version, namely Lore of Death.

Ow I agee with you totally.

I think the best way to "stop" him is feed him chaff the whole battle
Especially when he is not flying.

Maybe Ogre players should start taking Tyrants, if a Slaughtermaster can't handle the heat.

Maybe Ogre players should start taking Tyrants, if a Slaughtermaster can't handle the heat.

I don't see that this would make much difference, because wasn't the numbers run on this earlier, and at best he would survive a little longer, but still would go down in the end...

JJ

Maybe Ogre players should start taking Tyrants, if a Slaughtermaster can't handle the heat.

the SM is still better to take the heat over a Tyrant. Both have the same toughness and access to devensive gear plus the SM can heal lost wounds with Gutmagic.