Lore attribute effect when?

In the case of i IF a spell when will our Lore attribute take place?
Obviously i understand that the spell effect goes off 1st and I'm
assuming that the lore attribute then triggers before the roll on
the miscast table but im not 100%.
Please can somebody clarify this for me and a referance if possible?
Thanks in advance

Elf_Eater

Hi
I'm not sure if I understand what you mean or where you want to go.
What I understand is the following:

If a caster (i.e. butcher, Lore of the great Maw) has 1 wound left and casts a spell with a double six.
Does he have to roll first his lore attribute with the chance of regenerating 1 wound or does he have to roll his 2d6 first with the risk of dying due to an unfortunate roll.

Without the brb at hand I can't help you, sorry, but a very interesting point. I'll surely be looking it up.

In that case the lore attribute goes first and then the miscast takes into effect.

It says in the irresistable force part, that the spell in its whole has to take effect and then the miscast.
The lore attribute is a part of the spell.

It's good with one wound, but when you are full, you don't get the wound from the spell, but will lose the wound in the IF

Ok, thank you. You helped me understand a new abbreviation?
For me (as I'm from Germany) IF was "ironfist". It's challenging but I'm getting better

The rule of thumb that my friends follow for the magic phase is "do the good stuff first and the bad stuff last" obviously this is from the casters point of view 

T0bias...yes thats exactly what i ment thanks for your input and apoligies with my abreviation of IF,
i can obviously see the confusion this might have caused in hindsight.
Lexy...many thanks for your clarification on this, your last point was the exact reason i asked this question.
Ispa...a good rule of thumb to play by and evidently correct, thanks.

Elf_Eater

I would say it all happens simultaneously, and in that case it happens in the order that the player whose turn it is wants.

In other words, it happens in the way that's most beneficial to you.

I would say it all happens simultaneously, and in that case it happens in the order that the player whose turn it is wants.

In other words, it happens in the way that's most beneficial to you.

Nope, you really should read the rules on that:
First spell and the attribute is a part of that, and then miscasts.

I know this is a stupid question but if I successfully cast the spell I get the lore attribute even if it is then dispelled?

No, only if the spell gets its effect.
So dispelling with dice or scroll will not give you an effect of the lore

Also, most spell lore attributes will say "When a spell is succesfuly cast..." so that implies that as soon as the spell is cast, you resolve the attribute and then the miscast.
Personally, I always thought you can't lore attributes when you Miscast regardless because under the the Irresistable Force section it says that "something has gone horribly wrong"

And why would you think that?

The spell went off successfully, why wouldn't the Lore Attribute?

Dunno. I guess it's because the spell didn't really go off succesfully you know?
When something goes off and causes you to explode, I just never found that to be "successful". But I'm not the only one, my local Hobby store thinks along those lines too.
I think they just need a better wording for it, thats all as you could argue it both ways.

That is why I was asking about this as it goes off if the spell was successfully casted.  Most lore attributes are contingent on the spell to do something extra.

What I have been able to find is a successful cast is equalling or greater than the casting value.  At that point the spell was casted successfully the Maw lore would trigger at that point and the opponent would have a chance to dispel effect of the spell.  As a scroll or dispel dice happens after that point why would you not get the lore attribute even if it was dispelled later?  Is there a place in the rules or a FAQ that states that because I did not see one and that does not mean it was not there?

I must be missing something or a rule stated saying that if a spell is dispelled that lore attribute is ignored.  I'm not trying to be a pain but I must have missed something as the order seems to let it work.

The Lore Attributes are in effect just part of the spell. The timing varies, some happen when casting, some during spell resolution and some after.

As for "is the Lore attribute stopped when the spell is dispelled", yes, it is stopped, assuming it is an additional effect. You can look at the description of Lore attributes on page 491, but anyway most Lore Attributes say something like "when a spell from the lore of life is successfully cast" if the effect is one in addition to the spell. Some take effect before the spell is cast (e.g. fire and beasts affect the casting value) so I guess you could say that takes effect anyway but it doesn't mean anything if the spell is dispelled.

Can you give an example of what you're looking at?

yeah can you imagine IF-ing a lore of metal spell without being able to get the Lore attribue?! Ouch!

yeah can you imagine IF-ing a lore of metal spell without being able to get the Lore attribue?! Ouch!

Yeah, I can. You can do it with Glean Magic in the Tzeentch Lore. How does it work? Dunno. One of the many things in the WoC book they didn't think through very well.

Oh it was totally by bad, this is what I get for thinking about rules at work without having the book in front of me. When I was recalling the wording I did not remember the part "after resolving the effects" as that complete clears up my confusion. 

Now that is why I ask question to make for sure I'm playing correctly.  I find it a little hard to get better at the game when your gaming group consists of only three people including yourself.